Equine track with little equine experience

[Trying2GetIn]

I'll preface this with the fact that my veterinary experience is lacking in small animal as well. However, I grew up with dogs and cats, and while that doesn't seem like "experience" (and I agree it would be laughable to claim as experience in an application type scenario), it is when it comes to being comfortable with/understanding of these animals. In the case of those who want to pursue a career in equine medicine, most people have spent an incredible amount of time around horses. I have found it rare that someone enters vet school with little experience with horses and chooses to follow an equine track. It seems I may be one of these rare people. My worry is that, while I truly enjoy the idea of being an equine practitioner and am willing to put in the time and effort to learn as much as I can, I will never be as confident or knowledgeable about horses, in general, as someone who has grown up with them. Equine clients are unique in the sense that they know quite a bit about horse husbandry, medicine, riding, etc., and often expect their vet to be equally if not more versed, not just in medicine (obviously), but in the world of horse ownership/riding. It is somewhat intimidating for someone who was unfamiliar with terms like "lead change", "snaffle bit", or "collected" before vet school, to jump into this demographic of clientele. Basically, I am wondering if any of you have become "equine people" during vet school or if anyone has input as to whether my decision to become an equine vet is a good or bad idea. Thanks for any comments!

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[that redhead]

Have you made an attempt to get some equine experience now, before applying? That would be really valuable for you (do you know what being an equine vet is like?) I you decide you still want to do equine med, it would be a good idea to keep getting experience during your school time- muck stalls on weekends, volunteer at a therapeutic riding center, ask friends to teach you how to groom and handle their horses, etc. Keep doing equine stuff over major breaks (shadowing vets, working at a referral hospital) and you'll be a lot better off applying to equine stuff after school. People who have worked with horses since childhood aren't magically better than you, they've just put in that time. You can too

 

[Trying2GetIn]

I'm currently a second year vet student (I should probably change my tag) and did work with an equine vet prior to entering. I am actually leasing a horse and ride multiple times a week. I'm not completely green to horses but just not nearly as entrenched in it as some of my other classmates. I am applying for externships at equine clinics for the upcoming summer. Hopefully they work out and I can spend quality time in a veterinary setting with horses. However, its not so much the veterinary experience I am worried about, it's more the lifestyle that I am/was not a part of. It seems no matter how much the vet knows about horse medicine, the clients still only trust those vets that can relate to their problems on a personal level. For example, client wants to chat about the horse not taking the bit as it should or that they just changed from snaffle to shank bit, or that the horse doesn't like taking the right lead on a lope/canter, blah blah blah. I know picking that stuff up comes with time, but 2 more years doesn't leave very much time to get hip to the lingo and culture. Thanks for the positivity though! I do appreciate it.

 

[Ben and Me]

I actually know a surprisingly large number of equine vets who didn't grow up around horses. You'll pick up a ton doing externships, and a lot depends on what type of practice you want to go into. If you want to specialize, I don't think having prior horse knowledge matters a smidge -- people will respect you for being an awesome surgeon/internist. Repro seems to be about the same way.

On the other hand, if you want to do sports medicine for high level horses...yes, I'd say it matters more. But ultimately, I don't think those clients care either once a vet has a strong reputation -- they'll respect you more if you diagnose a lameness correctly than if you can discuss bitting choices (which should be more of a discussion with their trainer, anyway).

I've found that as a general rule, the more people (vet students) talk about their awesome horse experience / what a badass they are... the less they actually know/have done... So don't let them intimidate you. My friends who had the most horse experience and had competed at the highest levels rarely mentioned it. So, keep your head down, focus on getting as much equine experience as you can, and find some awesome places to extern.

 

[cheerio280]

I really don't know that many vets who switched their focus to equine medicine during vet school. I feel like it is a very difficult thing to do- not only is there a lot to learn, but it takes years to develop a feel for how to handle difficult horses. The ones I do know are mostly in surgery. They are VERY good at what they do though, so it is possible.

For example, client wants to chat about the horse not taking the bit as it should or that they just changed from snaffle to shank bit, or that the horse doesn't like taking the right lead on a lope/canter

FWIW, I would not feel at all comfortable letting someone who does not know these terms work on my own horses. It's more than just a matter of terminology- these kinds of things are important in understanding potential problems with your patients, and if you can't do that then it really doesn't matter how good your clinical skills are. My advice to you would be to learn as much as you can in the next two years. Ask every question you can, even if it seems stupid- because while you're a student it's okay, but once you're in the real world, you'll be expected to know these things.

 

[bunnity]

I really don't know that many vets who switched their focus to equine medicine during vet school. I feel like it is a very difficult thing to do- not only is there a lot to learn, but it takes years to develop a feel for how to handle difficult horses. The ones I do know are mostly in surgery. They are VERY good at what they do though, so it is possible.


FWIW, I would not feel at all comfortable letting someone who does not know these terms work on my own horses. It's more than just a matter of terminology- these kinds of things are important in understanding potential problems with your patients, and if you can't do that then it really doesn't matter how good your clinical skills are. My advice to you would be to learn as much as you can in the next two years. Ask every question you can, even if it seems stupid- because while you're a student it's okay, but once you're in the real world, you'll be expected to know these things.

I feel like that's kind of silly to not trust someone if they don't know the types of bits used in English riding since there's so many horse sports. A vet may have a lifetime of experience in Western pleasure riding and never have used a snaffle bit (yes I'm sure they would have heard the term, but probably couldn't help much more beyond that)... would you not let them take care of your horse?

To the OP... my advise would to be subscribe to a couple of horse magazines and read, read, read. You will get a lot more familiar with the vocabulary of the horse world. And keep taking lessons; the more you are around horses in both a medical and non medical sense, the better.

 

[that redhead]

I feel like that's kind of silly to not trust someone if they don't know the types of bits used in English riding since there's so many horse sports. A vet may have a lifetime of experience in Western pleasure riding and never have used a snaffle bit (yes I'm sure they would have heard the term, but probably couldn't help much more beyond that)... would you not let them take care of your horse?

I think basic familiarity with terms - leads, certain bits (a snaffle being so common, in particular) - is important, though (which I think is what cheerio was getting at). The only way I can think to equate it to small animal is if someone said, "So, do you think I should use a flat collar or a harness?" It's perfectly OK (in my opinion) as a vet to say, "I think you should consult your trainer" but they'd look at you a little funny if you said, "Flat collar? What's that?"

And not just to show an owner that you've been around horses or the discipline (since most vets tend to practice in the discipline that they're familiar with, at least in my experience) - knowing that a bit goes in the mouth and a lead has to do with gait can lead you to better evaluate the problem. If you didn't know that a snaffle was a bit and that it went in the horse's mouth, you'd lose that little bit of insight.

I agree that lacking heavily detailed knowledge of horse lingo isn't a reason to discredit your vet, but I think that every effort should be made to keep immersing yourself (OP) in the horse world. The more time you spend around them and with people who know them, the more you will pick up.

 

[cheerio280]

I feel like that's kind of silly to not trust someone if they don't know the types of bits used in English riding since there's so many horse sports. A vet may have a lifetime of experience in Western pleasure riding and never have used a snaffle bit

I wouldn't expect my vet to know all of the different types of snaffle bits. However, the difference between a snaffle and a shank bit is pretty significant in that they place stress on different parts of the horse's head in order to elicit a response, which could potentially be medically relevant information.

 

[Escalla]

To the OP... my advise would to be subscribe to a couple of horse magazines and read, read, read. You will get a lot more familiar with the vocabulary of the horse world. And keep taking lessons; the more you are around horses in both a medical and non medical sense, the better.

Excellent advice. Horse magazines are a great resource!

It is definitely do-able. I want to echo the opinion that people will respect you for the medicine and if you are great with their horse, they're not going to care what your background is. There's always the crazy few that will really take that into account (we are talking about horse people, after all), but continuing to immerse yourself in the industry will go a long way to learning the lingo and the lifestyle.

 

[bbeventer]

There are several people in my class that fit in this category that are trying to pursue equine medicine. I agree though, its a steep learning curve. Equine magazines are a great resource, I highly recommend learning equine conformation (there are several great books out there, not necessarily vet textbooks), equine confirmation comes up frequently with clients and is medically relevant due to the different strains it can apply to the distal limb structures.

Also youtube, watch videos of horses move (gaited and non-gaited) to get a feel of what they should look like sound (or hopefully are sound!

 

[Trying2GetIn]

Thanks everyone, for all the input. I'm definitely aware of the hill I'd have to climb if I were to pursue this. It's a scary step to take because at my school we track and by the time we graduate we've pretty much chosen our career path via our coursework. I know that there is the possibility of going back to basic small animal work after working as an equine vet. However, I also know how impossible it would be to move toward equine medicine after beginning a career in small animal medicine. Not sure how this will all end up, but all of your opinions were helpful to read.

 

[that redhead]

Good luck Mixed practice might be an option later down the line if you wanted to make a transition.

 

[Ben and Me]

I know this is an older thread, but seriously -- I know of several partners at the (large, well-known) practice where I currently work who did not grow up around horses. It can be done.

 

[zyablako]

I'm in that boat, never had horses growing up (too expensive) but have always been a horsey girl. It's a lot of work but if you truly immerse yourself in that world it can certainly be done. For me it has been super rewarding since I have always wanted to be a part of that but never had a good way in. Also, when compared to the medicine side of horse care, the lingo side is much much easier. Storey's Horse Lovers Encyclopedia, probably aimed at children, has been super helpful for me. Another piece of advice, make a plan to learn something about horses in really good detail (a breed, riding style, shoeing - ton of research/opinion on that one), it will give you confidence to be able to speak very knowledgeably about something horse related.

 

[racccjlm]

I was just speaking with an equine intern today, whose horse experience prior to fourth year was practically zilch. She managed to do a research project with one of the equine med profs, and that was her in. It can certainly be done.

 

[Trying2GetIn]

Thanks for all the replies. The time to choose large animal vs. small animal stream is approaching... I think I'm going with large! (equine). Zyablako - I'm at UCD too -C/O 2016. We've probably seen or spoken to one another at some point.

 

[aystyr]

I feel like that's kind of silly to not trust someone if they don't know the types of bits used in English riding since there's so many horse sports. A vet may have a lifetime of experience in Western pleasure riding and never have used a snaffle bit (yes I'm sure they would have heard the term, but probably couldn't help much more beyond that)... would you not let them take care of your horse?.

If you start your western pleasure horse in anything OTHER than a snaffle (unless you start in a bosal) you are doing them and yourself a great disservice. Snaffle bits are the universal, mild, introductory go-to bit and horses of all disciplines are started in them. Shanked western bits are for leverage and indirect contact and are considered an advanced bit for horses who are ready to move from basics to the next level. EVERYONE should be familiar with snaffle bits and their uses.

That little tidbit aside, it is DANGEROUS to attempt to work with horses unless you are incredibly familiar with the intricacies of horsemanship and horses. While you seem to have at least a basic grasp if you are riding in any way, you should already know by now that horses are unpredictable and large and to encourage people with little to no equine experience to attempt to go into a field where you handle them frequently - often with owners or handlers who are in no way prepared to actually restrain the animal should what you are doing be offensive to them - is irresponsible and dangerous to yourselves and others.

As a horse owner, I would never let anyone work on my horse who could not have a thorough and educated conversation with me about my training, horsekeeping, and riding practices and how those may have factored into the condition we are now treating. Horses are not livestock for most people - they are pets/companion animals - and they are worth a lot of money to spend chasing tails in diagnostics when the answer might be something simple in some other area of their life or care.

And while I can't always say I'm thrilled with the "clique"ishness and very exclusive nature of the industry, that is in fact the nature of the industry. If you want horse people to trust you, you better be able to walk the walk and talk the talk, regardless of whether you grew up in that lifestyle or not.

If you seriously intend to pursue this line of medicine, you better be prepared for a huge learning curve; while an internship in equine medicine will certainly help it's not going to teach you everything you need to know to relate to equine people, or simple horse care. Can you tell the difference between alfalfa and grass hay? Do you know what a properly trimmed and shod hoof looks like? What are the medical concerns in a horse who cribs all of the time and why should it be prevented as much as possible? Etc., etc. If you are serious about this commitment I wish you the best of luck but if you have the slightest doubt or concern I would recommend you study a different area of veterinary medicine, especially if you attend a school that requires you to "track" from day 1.

 

[bunnity]

That little tidbit aside, it is DANGEROUS to attempt to work with horses unless you are incredibly familiar with the intricacies of horsemanship and horses. While you seem to have at least a basic grasp if you are riding in any way, you should already know by now that horses are unpredictable and large and to encourage people with little to no equine experience to attempt to go into a field where you handle them frequently - often with owners or handlers who are in no way prepared to actually restrain the animal should what you are doing be offensive to them - is irresponsible and dangerous to yourselves and others.

Just FYI this happens every single day at teaching hospitals across the country. Whether you (or we) like it or not, veterinary students are required to work quite a bit with horses in order to graduate. I have classmates who had never touched a horse before vet school and all of us worked with very high strung, very sick, very valuable horses as part of vet school. Usually unsupervised. And yes, somehow along the way my dim small animal mind managed to grasp that horses are "large"... no need to patronize there.

I think you need to cool your jets a little and realize that people can enter the field at different times and in different ways. It's not like there is some kind of golden window to learn about horse handling that is only open in childhood. Plenty of people learn to ride as adults and quite arguably it is much more dangerous to actually sit on the horse while it jumps over things than to put a needle in its vein.

 

[aystyr]

Just FYI this happens every single day at teaching hospitals across the country. Whether you (or we) like it or not, veterinary students are required to work quite a bit with horses in order to graduate. I have classmates who had never touched a horse before vet school and all of us worked with very high strung, very sick, very valuable horses as part of vet school. Usually unsupervised. And yes, somehow along the way my dim small animal mind managed to grasp that horses are "large"... no need to patronize there.

There is a difference between doing some casework in veterinary school and leaving vet school to work with the horses on your own, with a much smaller safety net of professors and other students. And I seriously doubt you were left 'unsupervised' to treat these 'very sick, very valuable' horses. Rounds do, if I am not mistaken, usually involve a supervising veterinarian.

I think you need to cool your jets a little and realize that people can enter the field at different times and in different ways. It's not like there is some kind of golden window to learn about horse handling that is only open in childhood. Plenty of people learn to ride as adults and quite arguably it is much more dangerous to actually sit on the horse while it jumps over things than to put a needle in its vein.

It isn't any more dangerous for a properly trained rider to jump a properly schooled horse than for a properly trained person to do an intravenous procedure on a horse.

It is, however, much more dangerous for the horse for an unexperienced person to do an intravenous procedure on a horse than for an untrained rider (who, honestly, they can just dump) to attempt to jump them.

And no, there is no 'golden window' to learn all about horse handling but attempting to do it while A) in a clinical setting or B) while in the time constraints of veterinary school is unwise. It's not impossible, simply incredibly difficult.

And I stand by my assertion that AS A HORSE OWNER, I would never hire an inexperienced person or someone who can't consult with me on all aspects of my horses' care and health.

 

[bunnity]

Just FYI this happens every single day at teaching hospitals across the country. Whether you (or we) like it or not, veterinary students are required to work quite a bit with horses in order to graduate. I have classmates who had never touched a horse before vet school and all of us worked with very high strung, very sick, very valuable horses as part of vet school. Usually unsupervised. And yes, somehow along the way my dim small animal mind managed to grasp that horses are "large"... no need to patronize there.

I think you need to cool your jets a little and realize that people can enter the field at different times and in different ways. It's not like there is some kind of golden window to learn about horse handling that is only open in childhood. Plenty of people learn to ride as adults and quite arguably it is much more dangerous to actually sit on the horse while it jumps over things than to put a needle in its vein.

There is a difference between doing some casework in veterinary school and leaving vet school to work with the horses on your own, with a much smaller safety net of professors and other students. And I seriously doubt you were left 'unsupervised' to treat these 'very sick, very valuable' horses. Rounds do, if I am not mistaken, usually involve a supervising veterinarian.



It isn't any more dangerous for a properly trained rider to jump a properly schooled horse than for a properly trained person to do an intravenous procedure on a horse.

It is, however, much more dangerous for the horse for an unexperienced person to do an intravenous procedure on a horse than for an untrained rider (who, honestly, they can just dump) to attempt to jump them.

And no, there is no 'golden window' to learn all about horse handling but attempting to do it while A) in a clinical setting or B) while in the time constraints of veterinary school is unwise. It's not impossible, simply incredibly difficult.

And I stand by my assertion that AS A HORSE OWNER, I would never hire an inexperienced person or someone who can't consult with me on all aspects of my horses' care and health.

By "unsupervised," I was addressing your comments about horse handling - we do almost all our treatments (physical exams, blood draws, oral/IM/IV meds) without someone supervising us at that particular moment. We are taught how to do things correctly and can ask for help if needed, but there are definitely "non horse" people working on horses, without help, as a routine part of vet school. Honestly if we didn't learn proper husbandry, handling, and basic medical procedures on horses I think vet school would be doing us a disservice. Obviously all patients, regardless of species, have a veterinarian (intern/resident/attending depending on complexity of the case) assigned to guide their diagnosis and treatment.

Having learned to do both, I can say it is lot quicker of a learning curve to put an IV catheter in a horse than to jump a horse over a fence (and a lot easier to do an IV in a horse than a cat!). My larger point was that everyone starts out as unexperienced at some point and whether they initially enter the field as a rider/horse(wo)man or a medical professional, they will be working with a 1000+ pound prey animal with metal shoes and a propensity for hurting itself, and there will be a learning curve to understand that animal's body language and background and the sports it may participate in.

I would (and did earlier in the thread) absolutely advise anyone making a later switch to equine medicine to immerse themselves in the field as a non medical horseperson and to learn the language of the horse world. Just like I would advise anyone making a later switch to bovine medicine to work on a dairy or beef operation to learn the day to day things. Yes, vet school can be a difficult time to learn new things but I have classmates who have started nonprofits on the other side of the world during vet school. There are a million and one opportunities laid out before us to shadow and do labs and a host of teaching horses that are available for practicing physical exams, handling, grooming, restraint, etc.

 

[dyachei]

By "unsupervised," I was addressing your comments about horse handling - we do almost all our treatments (physical exams, blood draws, oral/IM/IV meds) without someone supervising us at that particular moment. We are taught how to do things correctly and can ask for help if needed, but there are definitely "non horse" people working on horses, without help, as a routine part of vet school. Honestly if we didn't learn proper husbandry, handling, and basic medical procedures on horses I think vet school would be doing us a disservice. Obviously all patients, regardless of species, have a veterinarian (intern/resident/attending depending on complexity of the case) assigned to guide their diagnosis and treatment.

Having learned to do both, I can say it is lot quicker of a learning curve to put an IV catheter in a horse than to jump a horse over a fence (and a lot easier to do an IV in a horse than a cat!). My larger point was that everyone starts out as unexperienced at some point and whether they initially enter the field as a rider/horse(wo)man or a medical professional, they will be working with a 1000+ pound prey animal with metal shoes and a propensity for hurting itself, and there will be a learning curve to understand that animal's body language and background and the sports it may participate in.

I would (and did earlier in the thread) absolutely advise anyone making a later switch to equine medicine to immerse themselves in the field as a non medical horseperson and to learn the language of the horse world. Just like I would advise anyone making a later switch to bovine medicine to work on a dairy or beef operation to learn the day to day things. Yes, vet school can be a difficult time to learn new things but I have classmates who have started nonprofits on the other side of the world during vet school. There are a million and one opportunities laid out before us to shadow and do labs and a host of teaching horses that are available for practicing physical exams, handling, grooming, restraint, etc.

One of the easiest things I learned in vet school was placing an IV catheter in a horse. I think it's pretty close-minded to say you only want someone that was a horse person before vet school. Sometimes, a change in perspective brings about good changes to the field of medicine.

 

[DVMDream]

One of the equine professors here had never really been around horses, touched horses or experienced much with horses before he started vet school. He told us that he was always set on small animals and never expected that to change. Now he is an equine vet and teaches us our equine courses. He is actually one of my favourite professors here and many people travel from across the UK just to come to see him at the equine hospital. You do not have to be a super horsey person to have clients come to you as a vet and to respect your opinion. He has learned the horsemanship terminology, it isn't difficult to do, especially if you have your mind set on it.

 

[DVMDream]

That little tidbit aside, it is DANGEROUS to attempt to work with horses unless you are incredibly familiar with the intricacies of horsemanship and horses. While you seem to have at least a basic grasp if you are riding in any way, you should already know by now that horses are unpredictable and large and to encourage people with little to no equine experience to attempt to go into a field where you handle them frequently - often with owners or handlers who are in no way prepared to actually restrain the animal should what you are doing be offensive to them - is irresponsible and dangerous to yourselves and others.

Our first practical with vet school: This is a horse, this is a halter, here is how to put it on. Your turn. We were left largely on our own to learn basic horse husbandry. Yes, there was an instructor around but there were 5 horses and about 25 students learning how to do "basic" husbandry. I don't think anyone needs to be yelled at that horses can be very dangerous. No one here is that inept. You saying horses are large in unpredictable is like me saying a tiger is large and unpredictable. It is common sense and not something you need to be condescending about. I also love your continued discussion about how horses should be handled and who should work with them especially in a veterinary school setting. You are going to be in for a shock when you get to vet school because there will be quite a few of your classmates who will have never been around a horse before. They are going to want to learn. You are going to also need to change your attitude because often times it is fellow students helping to teach another student in the course. Vet students have to learn about all the species, horses included and will need to be near and around horses even if they have no idea what they are doing when they first start. People who have your attitude and mentality towards those that aren't horsey do not help. You are going to make a lot of enemies in vet school if you keep up with this snobby mentality, especially if you treat your fellow vet student that does not know horses well like dirt and say some of the things you have said here. The best thing about vet school is that there are so many people from such diverse backgrounds that we are able to teach each other and learn something from one another. People who have not previously been horse people can go into equine medicine just fine, there is no reason for you to have this type of attitude towards someone that hasn't been around horses their whole life becoming an equine vet.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

What about people going into small animal medicine who have never owned dogs or cats? If they haven't spent their lives around said animals, how can they possibly be good small animal vets? I mean, large dogs can be just as dangerous as horses in many ways.

Of course you would never have an inexperienced person look at your animal. That's why we go to vet SCHOOL. That is why we do INTERNSHIPS. That is why we all have to spend YEARS in PRACTICE before becoming "experienced". Yes, people with little horse experience prior to vet school have a steeper learning curve if they want to do equine. No one is arguing that. But you're making it sound like it's an almost impossible task, which is completely disingenuous and only perpetuates the stereotype of "horse people."

I usually don't "pull rank" on this forum, but I think you're in need of some perspective. I have 1) actually been through vet school, 2) taught both fourth year and second year veterinary students for several years, and 3) am now a dual postdoc and clinician. I have dealt with hundreds of students from various backgrounds, not to mention a wide variety of fellow clinicians in two different referral hospitals, and never have I seen someone's childhood/teenage "growing up" experiences make them inherently better diagnosticians. You know how much your pre-vet school experience with animals means in terms of your future clinical acumen? Pretty much jack. You may feel more comfortable around certain animals than other people. It gives you a head start on other people because you know the terminology and certain things are more familiar to you. But it in NO way means you are going to be a more competent vet in the sense of clinical medicine. To assume so is, frankly, self-centered and ignorant. Adcoms want you to get experience before vet school not to become little mini-doctors, but to prove you are dedicated to the field.

Telling someone that if they have even the "slightest doubt or concern" about their prior experience to not go into a field? Absolutely ridiculous.

It's like saying people shouldn't go into primate medicine unless they somehow grew up around or had extensive pre-vet-school experience with chimpanzees and gorillas (which are much more dangerous and complex than horses, I can assure you). What abour marine mammals? I don't know if anyone grew up around killer whales and dolphins. Or zoo animals. Take your pick.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

If you seriously intend to pursue this line of medicine, you better be prepared for a huge learning curve; while an internship in equine medicine will certainly help it's not going to teach you everything you need to know to relate to equine people, or simple horse care. Can you tell the difference between alfalfa and grass hay? Do you know what a properly trimmed and shod hoof looks like? What are the medical concerns in a horse who cribs all of the time and why should it be prevented as much as possible? Etc., etc. If you are serious about this commitment I wish you the best of luck but if you have the slightest doubt or concern I would recommend you study a different area of veterinary medicine, especially if you attend a school that requires you to "track" from day 1.

I don't think you realize that such questions can most likely be answered by any fourth year veterinary student whether they tracked equine or not. Those aren't hard questions that only horse owners can answer.

 

[dyachei]

I don't think you realize that such questions can most likely be answered by any fourth year veterinary student whether they tracked equine or not. Those aren't hard questions that only horse owners can answer.

Yeah, I definitely learned all those things in vet school.

I was told by many people that I just seemed comfortable around horses and would do well in the field despite having touched a horse twice before vet school. I don't put any stock in that kind of thing.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Same here. By the end of fourth year, thanks to determination and large animal elective classes and core rotations (I almost, almost went LA instead of my current field), I could reliably palpate and age fetuses like a pro, could work em through a chute like nobody's business, hold my own with the boys, etc. Owners (old-timers who were suspicious of anyone but an older white male vet touching their animals) would compliment me on how I handled their stock and tell me I should be a food animal vet. I grew up 20 miles outside of DC and had never touched a cow before vet school

My worry is that, while I truly enjoy the idea of being an equine practitioner and am willing to put in the time and effort to learn as much as I can, I will never be as confident or knowledgeable about horses, in general, as someone who has grown up with them.

OP, the only thing that will make that true is if you keep telling yourself that.

You can absolutely be as knowledgeable as even the oldest horse owners - knowledge is acquired. It's not like we have different brain sizes and you can not fit as much horsey knowledge in there as other people can. That is a given.

Whether you can be confident enough is up to you. Confidence is JUST as important as knowledge in terms of winning clients, often even more so. Don't fall victim to imposter syndrome.

 

[Ben and Me]

I usually don't "pull rank" on this forum, but I think you're in need of some perspective. I have 1) actually been through vet school, 2) taught both fourth year and second year veterinary students for several years, and 3) am now a dual postdoc and clinician.

And I have also been through veterinary school, as an "equine" major and am currently doing an equine internship at a very large, well-known practice in "horse country".

I also will reiterate what Bunnity posted for Penn, and the other veterinary school where I spent a significant amount of time. For Penn's large animal core rotations, students are responsible for all weekday treatments from 6am-6pm on Medicine and ECC rotations, and 6am/6pm treatments on Surgery...as well as a rotating schedule after hours and weekends. That means that every student who graduates from Penn has spent a significant amount of time in a stall, usually alone, and has gotten a basic grasp of horse body language. One learns pretty quickly when taking temperatures, giving IM injections, and oral medications where to safely stand and how to get out of the way!

I agree with all the supportive posters 100%.

And to the pre-vet who is so adamant that they would never hire an inexperienced vet...There's more great equine vets out there that didn't grow up around horses than you might know about! ;-) Personally, I would feel comfortable with any of the surgeons at my practice working on my (non-existant) horse -- including those who didn't touch a horse before college or vet school.

 

[Ben and Me]

I wanted to double check this before posting...

But have you ever heard of Dean Richardson?

He had never touched a horse before a college PE class.

I think most horse folks would feel pretty comfortable discussing "all aspects of horse health and care" with him. I know I would -- and have during my 4th year rotations at Penn. And as WhtsThFrequency pointed out, confidence is a key factor... As I'm sure bunnity can attest, Dr. Richardson definitely doesn't lack in that department!

http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/DR081608.asp

 

[bunnity]

I wanted to double check this before posting...

But have you ever heard of Dean Richardson?

He had never touched a horse before a college PE class.

I think most horse folks would feel pretty comfortable discussing "all aspects of horse health and care" with him. I know I would -- and have during my 4th year rotations at Penn. And as WhtsThFrequency pointed out, confidence is a key factor... As I'm sure bunnity can attest, Dr. Richardson definitely doesn't lack in that department!

http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/DR081608.asp

Haha truth about the confidence thing. And I had no idea about his background. He does own/ride horses now right? Just goes to show, he is basically the king of equine orthopedic surgery in this area and I'd just love to see someone bring up his "inexperience" (from a safe distance!).

 

[eventualeventer]

I would like to point out, too, that riding horses, owning one, or showing is VERY different from dealing with them in a clinical setting. They're scared, they're in pain, you're doing new and uncomfortable things to them, sometimes they're being given drugs that lower inhibitions, and even young, cranky, ill-mannered, or aggressive horses end up needing treatment. One of the most dangerous situations I've been in in recent memory was at least half due to someone who has a long history of riding and owns her own horse but has very little experience dealing with poorly socialized animals in stressful situations.

T2GI, spend as much time as you can not just handling horses yourself but also WATCHING different people handle different types of horses outside the VMTH. Volunteer at the endurance races (Tevis, Tevis training ride, Wild West, Cache Creek, etc.) to help the vets - they generally have volunteers scribe for the vets and you'll get practice watching horses jog and determining whether they are lame or not. Magazines like Horse Illustrated are great for learning some of the basics about various sports. As much as you can, go to shows of various kinds and watch different breeds of horses go, so that you have an idea of what kind of athletic demands they are under and so that you get used to watching a variety of different types of horses move. If you can go on an R-VETS trip, or an international RAVS trip with Dr. Turoff, do so - you will learn about dealing with a very different population of horses (such as bucking stock, which some supposedly trained horses will try to emulate) and you will get invaluable experience in field medicine under very experienced mentors. As long as you work hard, keep an open mind, and think on your feet, I think you'll end up just fine.

 

[quantized]

If you start your western pleasure horse in anything OTHER than a snaffle (unless you start in a bosal) you are doing them and yourself a great disservice. Snaffle bits are the universal, mild, introductory go-to bit and horses of all disciplines are started in them. Shanked western bits are for leverage and indirect contact and are considered an advanced bit for horses who are ready to move from basics to the next level. EVERYONE should be familiar with snaffle bits and their uses.

That little tidbit aside, it is DANGEROUS to attempt to work with horses unless you are incredibly familiar with the intricacies of horsemanship and horses. While you seem to have at least a basic grasp if you are riding in any way, you should already know by now that horses are unpredictable and large and to encourage people with little to no equine experience to attempt to go into a field where you handle them frequently - often with owners or handlers who are in no way prepared to actually restrain the animal should what you are doing be offensive to them - is irresponsible and dangerous to yourselves and others.

As a horse owner, I would never let anyone work on my horse who could not have a thorough and educated conversation with me about my training, horsekeeping, and riding practices and how those may have factored into the condition we are now treating. Horses are not livestock for most people - they are pets/companion animals - and they are worth a lot of money to spend chasing tails in diagnostics when the answer might be something simple in some other area of their life or care.

And while I can't always say I'm thrilled with the "clique"ishness and very exclusive nature of the industry, that is in fact the nature of the industry. If you want horse people to trust you, you better be able to walk the walk and talk the talk, regardless of whether you grew up in that lifestyle or not.

If you seriously intend to pursue this line of medicine, you better be prepared for a huge learning curve; while an internship in equine medicine will certainly help it's not going to teach you everything you need to know to relate to equine people, or simple horse care. Can you tell the difference between alfalfa and grass hay? Do you know what a properly trimmed and shod hoof looks like? What are the medical concerns in a horse who cribs all of the time and why should it be prevented as much as possible? Etc., etc. If you are serious about this commitment I wish you the best of luck but if you have the slightest doubt or concern I would recommend you study a different area of veterinary medicine, especially if you attend a school that requires you to "track" from day 1.

Oh give me a break and think a little less highly of your extensive equine background. I have met plenty of vet students who have become better horse handlers in their vet school time then the self professed life long experts that also come to vet school. Your questions are basic and rudimentary - you realize that there are nerve block types and locations, colic types and treatment, and medication specifics about equine on the NAVLE don't you? (I kinda don't think you do as you think the poors won't be able to tell grass from alfalfa). Plenty of people start equine in vet school and they do just fine. The vet I ran around with before vet school didn't touch a horse until vet school and he has a monopoly with his practice in arguably one of the most affluent neighborhoods in California.

One of my good vet school friends went to the round table discussion at AAEP a few years ago when we were firsties and one of the vets told her she had no chance of becoming an equine vet having not grown up with them. Joke is on that B, my friend is spectacular in clinics and externships and got offers at three very desirable practices for internships. She's going to be just fine.

 

[nyanko]

I think the real question is why would anyone ever WANT to work with those disaster animals and their stuck-up entourage???

 

[Escalla]

I think the real question is why would anyone ever WANT to work with those disaster animals and their stuck-up entourage???

Nothing rational can explain the crazy. Nothing.

 

[Trying2GetIn]

I have to say, after reading all of your supportive comments, I am feeling pretty empowered. It is really inspirational to read those posts. I even appreciate the brutal honesty of some, although I probably won't take it completely to heart. I am doing as much as I can outside of the classroom. Riding with a trainer, shadowing a cutting horse trainer and hanging out at the barn have already given me a more solid perspective. I have a couple externships secured for the upcoming summer and have started shadowing a mobile vet on Saturdays. I know I've got a long way to go but I feel like I'm slowly making my way. They may be a disaster, but they are awesome =)

 

[Vetgal11]

I'll preface this with the fact that my veterinary experience is lacking in small animal as well. However, I grew up with dogs and cats, and while that doesn't seem like "experience" (and I agree it would be laughable to claim as experience in an application type scenario), it is when it comes to being comfortable with/understanding of these animals. In the case of those who want to pursue a career in equine medicine, most people have spent an incredible amount of time around horses. I have found it rare that someone enters vet school with little experience with horses and chooses to follow an equine track. It seems I may be one of these rare people. My worry is that, while I truly enjoy the idea of being an equine practitioner and am willing to put in the time and effort to learn as much as I can, I will never be as confident or knowledgeable about horses, in general, as someone who has grown up with them. Equine clients are unique in the sense that they know quite a bit about horse husbandry, medicine, riding, etc., and often expect their vet to be equally if not more versed, not just in medicine (obviously), but in the world of horse ownership/riding. It is somewhat intimidating for someone who was unfamiliar with terms like "lead change", "snaffle bit", or "collected" before vet school, to jump into this demographic of clientele. Basically, I am wondering if any of you have become "equine people" during vet school or if anyone has input as to whether my decision to become an equine vet is a good or bad idea. Thanks for any comments!

Oh give me a break and think a little less highly of your extensive equine background. I have met plenty of vet students who have become better horse handlers in their vet school time then the self professed life long experts that also come to vet school. Your questions are basic and rudimentary - you realize that there are nerve block types and locations, colic types and treatment, and medication specifics about equine on the NAVLE don't you? (I kinda don't think you do as you think the poors won't be able to tell grass from alfalfa). Plenty of people start equine in vet school and they do just fine. The vet I ran around with before vet school didn't touch a horse until vet school and he has a monopoly with his practice in arguably one of the most affluent neighborhoods in California.

One of my good vet school friends went to the round table discussion at AAEP a few years ago when we were firsties and one of the vets told her she had no chance of becoming an equine vet having not grown up with them. Joke is on that B, my friend is spectacular in clinics and externships and got offers at three very desirable practices for internships. She's going to be just fine.

 

[Vetgal11]

I was bitten by the horse bug later on in life. I am now going to Vet school this coming August as a career changing individual and plan to do large animal/equine predominantly .. While I did not grow up with horses, or own one. I currently ride weekly and have worked at a therapeutic horse facility and have also shadowed equine vets. I believe that doing externships and a internship after graduation will greatly bring myself up to speed in the equine ambulatory world. I hope to be as well rounded as I can and let the learning chips and curve fall where it will.

 

[Ben and Me]

If you can go on an R-VETS trip...

Just want to second the recommendation of R-Vets. I did a trip with Cindy and Dr. Davis each summer of vet school (and am trying to find the time someday to go back!) and I CANNOT put into words how much it helped me in so many ways.

Seriously.

Fabulous organization, unparalleled teachers, memories/experiences of a lifetime, and new friends all over the country.

www.r-vets.org

 

[JenEqVet]

As a horse owner, I would never let anyone work on my horse who could not have a thorough and educated conversation with me about my training, horsekeeping, and riding practices and how those may have factored into the condition we are now treating. Horses are not livestock for most people - they are pets/companion animals - and they are worth a lot of money to spend chasing tails in diagnostics when the answer might be something simple in some other area of their life or care.[/quote]

As several others have said, get over yourself. Please. You are going to be very unpopular if you ever make it to veterinary school. Some of my classmates sounded just like you. One was accepted into a top equine internship then never practiced again. One works part-time doing acupuncture. Three are now small animal veterinarians, one of those working for Banfield. Those of us who took the time to learn what veterinary school was trying to teach are the ones who are still working with horses. I've been an equine veterinarian for 15 years now. What I remember every day is there's always something I can learn, even though I did in fact have quite a lot of experience working with all kinds of horses prior to enrolling in veterinary school.

That said... why would anyone in their right mind want to be an equine veterinarian? The hours are horrible. It's debilitating; every veterinarian I know who has been in practice for more than ten years has some chronic injury directly related to equine veterinary practice, not to mention occasional, gruesome on-the-job injuries (open fractures, traumatic brain injuries, etc.). The pay is abysmal, which means anyone with loans will be living like a student for a long, long time. Worst of all, horse owners have a well-earned reputation for being awful. If you're a glutton for punishment, just visit the "Horse Care" forum on the Chronicle of the Horse site, then imagine spending your days listening to people just like that. Horse owners will spend thousands on saddle fitting, massage, and horsemanship clinics then throw a fit over a $600 bill for a colic finally seen at midnight, though it may have been brewing for days.

This is why though I still work with horses, I am no longer in private practice. Enough is enough. Why did I choose equine, originally? It was over 15 years ago, in a better economy.

A practical consideration for those still interested in equine: there are few jobs in desirable locations with good mentorship available to new graduates. Check out the AAEP's job listings, regularly. Pretty thin, and most require experience. This has caused a number of equine veterinary hopefuls to set up their own practices and become self-employed instead, immediately following internship or even graduation. IMO, this is not a positive trend for the quality of equine veterinary medicine in the future.

Overall, anyone currently enrolled in veterinary school should keep an open mind, and formulate a back-up plan just in case your chosen field isn't so wonderful, say, five years following graduation.