ER scribing

[medicman327]

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Hi, I wanted to get some input. I'm a premedical student with about a year before I take the MCATs and apply to med schools. I'm a non-traditional student (age 32. Already have a BA). I'm thinking it's a harder sell to be accepted if you're a non-trad (i.e. non-trad vs. trad. with same marks....trad wins) Anyhow. I should have a 4.0 BPCM over about 50 graded units with a total undergrad GPA of 3.58 (or thereabouts). I'm anticipating getting an MCAT score in the high 30's (with ample preparation of course).

So here's the topic of the question:

I'm currently an ER scribe and have been for about 1 year. I've made a commitment to the program of 2 years. However, I'm seriously thinking about quitting due to the fact that I'm being pressured into being more invisible at work. They don't like the fact that I talk to doctors and interject into ongoing conversations. It really bugs me that they're trying to groom me, not to mention the fact that you can't do anything that even might piss anyone off in the ER because you're at the bottom of the food chain. However, I'm quite well liked and/or tolerated amongst the staff and have done well.

And the question:

If I quit, can I still use my 1yr of experience on my AMCAS app. or will fact-checkers note this experience with "quit prematurely". Will interviewers immediately question me with "Why did you quit?"

I don't need another ding since I'm already going to have to explain why I'm deciding to go to medical school after having gotten a BA in Radio-TV--Film. And I think two serious questions needing to be answered would be enough to ruin the whole deal.

Any input? Please?

 

[ShinyDome19]

I was never asked in any of my interviews why I left any of my jobs... Doubt anyone would care or know that you didnt stay for the 2 years you initially comitted to.

 

[christina30]

Hi, I wanted to get some input. I'm a premedical student with about a year before I take the MCATs and apply to med schools. I'm a non-traditional student (age 32. Already have a BA). I'm thinking it's a harder sell to be accepted if you're a non-trad (i.e. non-trad vs. trad. with same marks....trad wins) Anyhow. I should have a 4.0 BPCM over about 50 graded units with a total undergrad GPA of 3.58 (or thereabouts). I'm anticipating getting an MCAT score in the high 30's (with ample preparation of course).

So here's the topic of the question:

I'm currently an ER scribe and have been for about 1 year. I've made a commitment to the program of 2 years. However, I'm seriously thinking about quitting due to the fact that I'm being pressured into being more invisible at work. They don't like the fact that I talk to doctors and interject into ongoing conversations. It really bugs me that they're trying to groom me, not to mention the fact that you can't do anything that even might piss anyone off in the ER because you're at the bottom of the food chain. However, I'm quite well liked and/or tolerated amongst the staff and have done well.

And the question:

If I quit, can I still use my 1yr of experience on my AMCAS app. or will fact-checkers note this experience with "quit prematurely". Will interviewers immediately question me with "Why did you quit?"

I don't need another ding since I'm already going to have to explain why I'm deciding to go to medical school after having gotten a BA in Radio-TV--Film. And I think two serious questions needing to be answered would be enough to ruin the whole deal.

Any input? Please?

I also find it kind of crazy that they're telling you to become more invisible. I'm an ER secretary and I make you look like a wallflower with my workplace antics 😀

I have ridiculous nicknames for the attendings, I argue with them all the time.. we're all co-workers, regardless of our places "on the food chain". Sounds like a ****ty place to work, imho. I wouldn't wanna stay there.

 

[Catalystik]

I doubt very much that you'll be asked why you quit. It's also unlikely that anyone will call to check on the employment and learn of the situation. If they do, you have a good explanation.

Why not draw a line in the sand with whoever is pressuring you? Tell them this is your style and it's unlikely to change as it helps you do your job well, but if they want you to withdraw from the job, you completely understand and will do so. If everyone else approves of you to the extent that seems to be the case, that person will back off. If not, well, you've resolved the situation more gracefully than if you quit, as then the position was terminated due to mutual agreement.

If you do leave, be sure to substitute it with some other clinical involvement, perhaps 4 hours of volunteering in another medical environment.

 

[medicman327]

Why not draw a line in the sand with whoever is pressuring you? Tell them this is your style and it's unlikely to change as it helps you do your job well, but if they want you to withdraw from the job, you completely understand and will do so. If everyone else approves of you to the extent that seems to be the case, that person will back off. If not, well, you've resolved the situation more gracefully than if you quit, as then the position was terminated due to mutual agreement.

 

[medicman327]

Why not draw a line in the sand with whoever is pressuring you? Tell them this is your style and it's unlikely to change as it helps you do your job well, but if they want you to withdraw from the job, you completely understand and will do so. If everyone else approves of you to the extent that seems to be the case, that person will back off. If not, well, you've resolved the situation more gracefully than if you quit, as then the position was terminated due to mutual agreement.

This is the direction I wanted to go. I'm actually quite ok with being let go. It's pretty crappy place to work in general, true. The thing is I get along swimmingly with most of the doctors and to a better degree than the other scribes since I tend to be more open (one doc took me out for beers after a shift). The program, in general, is highly controlled. And IMHO, they recruit people who don't have a fighting chance of getting into medical school. Which I think is is disingenuous since they said they only hire people they think have a good chance. How many people actually matriculate into med school from the program? I'm guessing around 5-10%. I've been there 1 year and I know of 2 people who got in, both going DO. So I'm not too keen on the program. They are basically using starry-eyed med school hopefuls for cheap labor, in a really intensive secretarial role with no overtime for evening shifts. Oh, I'm sorry $10/hr instead of $9 during the night.

 

[christina30]

This is the direction I wanted to go. I'm actually quite ok with being let go. It's pretty crappy place to work in general, true. The thing is I get along swimmingly with most of the doctors and to a better degree than the other scribes since I tend to be more open (one doc took me out for beers after a shift). The program, in general, is highly controlled. And IMHO, they recruit people who don't have a fighting chance of getting into medical school. Which I think is is disingenuous since they said they only hire people they think have a good chance. How many people actually matriculate into med school from the program? I'm guessing around 5-10%. I've been there 1 year and I know of 2 people who got in, both going DO. So I'm not too keen on the program. They are basically using starry-eyed med school hopefuls for cheap labor, in a really intensive secretarial role with no overtime for evening shifts. Oh, I'm sorry $10/hr instead of $9 during the night.

Hospitals almost never give overtime for evening shifts - an ER (or hospitals in general) has to be running 24/7, and if they gave overtime (which is usually time and a half) to everyone working evenings/nights, they'd go broke, quite frankly. For evenings/nights, they really only give a differential (I get 10%), but I make $17 an hour, not $9, which is pretty ****ty pay. They're really taking advantage. I only get overtime if I work more than 37.5 hours in a week or if I work holidays. SO as bad a workplace it may be, you can't blame them for that.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

OP, I was a volunteer in the ER and I knew many of the scribes. Next year, after I apply, I will become a scribe. I am very familiar with the faculty and the nurses and I know from talking to them, and the other scribes, as well as the ER head that you have no right to say ANYTHING/or put any kind of input towards the patient. So, yes it does suck that you have to be a "wallflower" but at the same time I think being a scribe is a great experience because it allows you to get a head start in a clinical setting. The experience is meaningful bc the shifts are 12 hrs (they were at the hospital I was at) and the 2 year commitment looks very good. I would recommend continuing, not because you are a non-trad or because of your grades bc both of those are good; I just think it is a very meaningful experience and it shows your commitment ( I was told this by an adcom); so stick it out....plus you seem smart so you won't be on lockdown for the mcat so i recommend continueing with the shadowing,scribing, and whatever else that you do. good luck

 

[Catalystik]

Tell the starry-eyed hopefuls to check out SDN. We'll help them improve their chances.

At my school, about one in ten of the freshman "pre-meds" actually persist to the point where they think they are ready to apply. About half don't get accepted. If everyone could get a scribe job, I feel applicants would have a much more realistic idea of what to expect if they're successful, as it provides very-high quality clinical experience.

 

[mvenus929]

The program, in general, is highly controlled. And IMHO, they recruit people who don't have a fighting chance of getting into medical school. Which I think is is disingenuous since they said they only hire people they think have a good chance. How many people actually matriculate into med school from the program? I'm guessing around 5-10%. I've been there 1 year and I know of 2 people who got in, both going DO. So I'm not too keen on the program. They are basically using starry-eyed med school hopefuls for cheap labor, in a really intensive secretarial role with no overtime for evening shifts. Oh, I'm sorry $10/hr instead of $9 during the night.

FWIW... my hospital's 'scribe' program didn't even offer me an interview. I got in with the lab. I'll be going to medical school in August. The other premed (who I went to college with, despite going to college in another city) showed up for like 3 shifts and then was fired for not showing up to work.

And hospitals, in my experience, don't give overtime for different shifts. When I first started, we got overtime if we worked more than 8 hours in a day. Then we changed the pay scale so that we don't get overtime until we work more than 12 hours in a day (which we can get into trouble for), or 40 hours in a two-week period. We also get holiday pay (time and a half) if we work Thanksgiving or Christmas.

We do, however, get a shift differential. I think it's like 10% before 7, and like another 5% or something before 8. I get two differentials, but I'm not exactly sure what the difference between them is (I come in at 0530). At my dad's hospital, they offer a night differential, a weekend differential, and holiday pay. With his pay, he can make like $30 an hour in differentials alone if he works certain shifts.

 

[medicman327]

I guess the pay is competitive for what it is. I'm not really too sour on the pay since I'm there for the experience. In fact, when I heard about the program, I thought, "Wow. We get paid? I'd volunteer for this job." Now I know the pay is just leverage to justify treating you harshly and making demands other than just showing up on time.

One doc I talked to (who just the other shift, when I told him I was scribing for him, called us "Just a couple of rebels"), mentioned that the program does tend to hire "docile" people into the scribe program. He and I get along great because we're both pretty real at work. He tends to break a lot of 'rules' like not ordering a cbc and cmsp for every abd pain workup, so the patient doesn't have to pay for unnecessary tests....but I digress.

I'm pretty much just soured on the whole lack of communication. In fact, the doc who had a problem with me never mentioned it to me at all. Just complained to my boss...what a chicken $#@^. Oh well, I'm talking to the head of the group tomorrow and airing my grievances. Hopefully, what I say'll get through instead of him just backing my boss.

Thanks for the input all. I really appreciate it. And for those taking the MCATs this summer....good luck and remember to breathe =).

 

[noshie]

I scribed full-time for a year. It was the best experience of my life and I never had any of the problems you are describing. Though, I had alot of work experience prior to being and scribe, and quite frankly when training new scribes I found that most of them didn't have any work etiquette. This caused difficulties for them with alot of the doctors, nurses and secretaries in the ED.

My advice is going to be harsh, and usually I am totally supportive of others decisions... But if you can't make it in any work environment just because you are not flexible enough, then you are in for a rude awakening in the real world. Sometimes you need to adapt. You never know, you may actually learn a life lesson by sticking it out. Quitting will probably not be noticed by any of the schools you apply to, but if you quit in this, what else are you going to quit on? Med school? I understand that you are frustrated with people complaining, but it happens in every work place.

You signed up to do 2 years. Be professional enough to honor that commitment.

 

[Vongrind]

I scribed full-time for a year. It was the best experience of my life and I never had any of the problems you are describing. Though, I had alot of work experience prior to being and scribe, and quite frankly when training new scribes I found that most of them didn’t have any work etiquette. This caused difficulties for them with alot of the doctors, nurses and secretaries in the ED.

My advice is going to be harsh, and usually I am totally supportive of others decisions... But if you can’t make it in any work environment just because you are not flexible enough, then you are in for a rude awakening in the real world. Sometimes you need to adapt. You never know, you may actually learn a life lesson by sticking it out. Quitting will probably not be noticed by any of the schools you apply to, but if you quit in this, what else are you going to quit on? Med school? I understand that you are frustrated with people complaining, but it happens in every work place.

You signed up to do 2 years. Be professional enough to honor that commitment.

To the OP, don't listen to Noshie. Nothing could be further from the truth. Recognizing a bad situation and changing it is what makes us adults. People don't have the right to treat you crappy at work, even if they are physicians. They have the right to terminate employment at any time, as do YOU.

Definitely get some other volunteering lined up, and hopefully some research experience too. Keep racking up the good grades and rock your MCAT, you'll be fine.

 

[noshie]

To the OP, don't listen to Noshie. Nothing could be further from the truth. Recognizing a bad situation and changing it is what makes us adults. People don't have the right to treat you crappy at work, even if they are physicians. They have the right to terminate employment at any time, as do YOU.

Definitely get some other volunteering lined up, and hopefully some research experience too. Keep racking up the good grades and rock your MCAT, you'll be fine.

I'm really not trying to be a downer. I don't like being negative at all. Absolutely if you feel like you are being mistreated then yes do what you feel is right. But the OP said that he was upset because someone complained about him. That happens sometimes in any job. My advice was to stick it out and honor his commitment, and I am going to have to stand by that…

 

[medicman327]

I scribed full-time for a year. It was the best experience of my life and I never had any of the problems you are describing. Though, I had alot of work experience prior to being and scribe, and quite frankly when training new scribes I found that most of them didn’t have any work etiquette. This caused difficulties for them with alot of the doctors, nurses and secretaries in the ED.

My advice is going to be harsh, and usually I am totally supportive of others decisions... But if you can’t make it in any work environment just because you are not flexible enough, then you are in for a rude awakening in the real world. Sometimes you need to adapt. You never know, you may actually learn a life lesson by sticking it out. Quitting will probably not be noticed by any of the schools you apply to, but if you quit in this, what else are you going to quit on? Med school? I understand that you are frustrated with people complaining, but it happens in every work place.

You signed up to do 2 years. Be professional enough to honor that commitment. Yesterday 09:39 PM

Noshie, that's a nice line to take. However, I'm plenty flexible. I adjust with the best of them. However, I don't do well with military style management. It's actually one of the draws of being a physician.
I sense some legalism. Thank you VonGrind for the support. For your information Noshie, I completed an undergraduate great books program reading an average of 300 pages a week over the course of 4 years. I graduated top 20 of my high school class. And accrued about 24 units of college credit for my AP classes. And I've held a 4.0 through Biology, General Chem, Calc, Stats, and now 1st sem O-Chem and Physics. So please don't assume to know enough about me to justify making criticisms like that again.

 

[medicman327]

I scribed full-time for a year. It was the best experience of my life and I never had any of the problems you are describing. Though, I had alot of work experience prior to being and scribe, and quite frankly when training new scribes I found that most of them didn’t have any work etiquette. This caused difficulties for them with alot of the doctors, nurses and secretaries in the ED.

My advice is going to be harsh, and usually I am totally supportive of others decisions... But if you can’t make it in any work environment just because you are not flexible enough, then you are in for a rude awakening in the real world. Sometimes you need to adapt. You never know, you may actually learn a life lesson by sticking it out. Quitting will probably not be noticed by any of the schools you apply to, but if you quit in this, what else are you going to quit on? Med school? I understand that you are frustrated with people complaining, but it happens in every work place.

You signed up to do 2 years. Be professional enough to honor that commitment. Yesterday 09:39 PM.

Noshie, that's a nice line to take. However, I'm plenty flexible. I adjust with the best of them. However, I don't do well with military style management. It's actually one of the draws of being a physician.
I sense some legalism. Thank you VonGrind for the support. For your information Noshie, I completed an undergraduate great books program reading an average of 300 pages a week over the course of 4 years. I graduated top 20 of my high school class. And accrued about 24 units of college credit for my AP classes. And I've held a 4.0 through Biology, General Chem, Calc, Stats, and now 1st sem O-Chem and Physics. So please don't assume to know enough about me to justify making criticisms like that again

 

[noshie]

Noshie, that's a nice line to take. However, I'm plenty flexible. I adjust with the best of them. However, I don't do well with military style management. It's actually one of the draws of being a physician.
I sense some legalism. Thank you VonGrind for the support. For your information Noshie, I completed an undergraduate great books program reading an average of 300 pages a week over the course of 4 years. I graduated top 20 of my high school class. And accrued about 24 units of college credit for my AP classes. And I've held a 4.0 through Biology, General Chem, Calc, Stats, and now 1st sem O-Chem and Physics. So please don't assume to know enough about me to justify making criticisms like that again

I didn’t in any way suggest you were not intelligent. Actually, I am quite sure that you are, or you wouldn’t be on here. But intelligence does not equal professionalism.

Sometimes you have to start at the bottom and work your way up, you can’t assume that you will always be in charge. You are suggesting that the only reason you want to be a physician is because you don’t want to be told what to do. This is kind of a bad attitude to take. When I scribed I was there to learn, and even though my job description stated that I was to write notes for the physician, I had no problems taking orders that were unrelated, even if it was "go get me coffee"

By your post, I can tell that you have a bit of a problem with receiving criticism, if you do then why are you even asking anyone for their opinion? I gave you mine, and you were downright rude in your response... Obviously, this must be why you are having problems with physicians questioning your work ethic. Learn from your mistakes, own up to what the doctor was complaining about and fix it. Don’t just run away from it.

One time I worked at a doctor’s office as an administrative assistant. I was pretty much locked in a dark room and told to make appointments for the physicians. I came in really early and none of the patients ever saw me. I would come in with gel in my hair because my hair is naturally curly but mostly frizzy, and one day the nurse told me that I was never allowed to come in with wet hair again. There was no reason for her to say this to me and my hair wasn’t even wet, it was the gel that made it look that way. Even though I thought this was very unjust, I stuck it out. I still don’t agree with someone making a comment like that at work, but I still stayed and worked hard.

The point is, there will always be people out there that will want to tell you what to do, even if it’s something totally stupid like “your hair looks wet.” But if you just stick it out you will hopefully feel that you do the best work possible and you won’t give a crap what anyone says about you. It builds character and proves that you are stronger than others.

 

[medicman327]

I didn’t in any way suggest you were not intelligent. Actually, I am quite sure that you are, or you wouldn’t be on here. But intelligence does not equal professionalism.

Sometimes you have to start at the bottom and work your way up, you can’t assume that you will always be in charge. You are suggesting that the only reason you want to be a physician is because you don’t want to be told what to do. This is kind of a bad attitude to take. When I scribed I was there to learn, and even though my job description stated that I was to write notes for the physician, I had no problems taking orders that were unrelated, even if it was "go get me coffee"

By your post, I can tell that you have a bit of a problem with receiving criticism, if you do then why are you even asking anyone for their opinion? I gave you mine, and you were downright rude in your response... Obviously, this must be why you are having problems with physicians questioning your work ethic. Learn from your mistakes, own up to what the doctor was complaining about and fix it. Don’t just run away from it.

One time I worked at a doctor’s office as an administrative assistant. I was pretty much locked in a dark room and told to make appointments for the physicians. I came in really early and none of the patients ever saw me. I would come in with gel in my hair because my hair is naturally curly but mostly frizzy, and one day the nurse told me that I was never allowed to come in with wet hair again. There was no reason for her to say this to me and my hair wasn’t even wet, it was the gel that made it look that way. Even though I thought this was very unjust, I stuck it out. I still don’t agree with someone making a comment like that at work, but I still stayed and worked hard.

The point is, there will always be people out there that will want to tell you what to do, even if it’s something totally stupid like “your hair looks wet.” But if you just stick it out you will hopefully feel that you do the best work possible and you won’t give a crap what anyone says about you. It builds character and proves that you are stronger than others.

Noshie, I agree completely with you about having a good work ethic and yes there are those that will make stupid remarks about your hair being wet or what not. That's not really what I was addressing. I think I generally agree with you. If one quits anything after running into an obstacle you'd never get anything done. So in that sense I believe having commitment is important. However, there are times when it is best to change direction. And that's what I was getting at. I know plenty of unhappy married couples that really should not be married but they're sticking it out because of their "commitment." (That may seem strange due to the high divorce rates where people get out at the first sign of an obstacle) But there really is an opposite extreme.

You are suggesting that the only reason you want to be a physician is because you don’t want to be told what to do. This is kind of a bad attitude to take.

This is not what I said at all. I said, it was a draw (i.e. a factor, or perk).

And yes I wanted input on my situation, but not snap judgements on my character. And no it isn't my work ethic they are having problems with. It was asking too many questions at the wrong time or interrupting them at the wrong time. Nobody questions my work ethic. In fact I'll quote one of the docs from my last eval:

"A rough start. You are remaining positive despite the hurdles that are being tossed your way. Continue to work on measuring what you are going to say so that it has more impact. Keep up the hard work."

 

[noshie]

I was not trying to personally attack you. I’m sorry if I gave you this impression. 🙂

Back to your original question, it all depends on what you want to get out of this experience. If you are looking for a recommendation letter later down the road then leave on good terms or better just finish the two years. I trust that you know exactly what the consequences are for your decision. Ultimately, if you are not happy then you should leave. However, I think by the problems that you have described above, you are much better than that. Don’t let them shake you.

 

[medicman327]

I was not trying to personally attack you. I’m sorry if I gave you this impression. 🙂

Back to your original question, it all depends on what you want to get out of this experience. If you are looking for a recommendation letter later down the road then leave on good terms or better just finish the two years. I trust that you know exactly what the consequences are for your decision. Ultimately, if you are not happy then you should leave. However, I think by the problems that you have described above, you are much better than that. Don’t let them shake you.

No worries Noshie. Yeah, I 've decided to stay. Had a good conversation with the head of the group. He gave me some perspective on this whole process, which helped me to see the objectivity of the critiques and why things are going the way they're going. I'm less worried that I'm being singled out, which was one of my concerns since I'm the oldest scribe in the program.

 

[brianmartin]

I'm interested in what these critiques were against you. I'm a scribe and I talk to the doctors all the time. I mean, I'm around them for an entire shift it would be strange not to converse with them. Also I'm amazed your group has such a low success rate...in my group everyone who wants to get into med school does.

 

[noshie]

I'm interested in what these critiques were against you. I'm a scribe and I talk to the doctors all the time. I mean, I'm around them for an entire shift it would be strange not to converse with them. Also I'm amazed your group has such a low success rate...in my group everyone who wants to get into med school does.

Well, I'll have to agree with the low success rate. My program was this way and several people ended up doing PA. But most of the scribes that didn't get in at first did get in later on after they left the program (applied a few times with final success). It kind of goes to show that scribing on your application will not be as significant as we would all hope...