Ethical/Legal Problem

Started by DrDaveTx
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DrDaveTx

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Here's my issue:

In January I was accepted to two schools.

In January, I wrote a letter to the Dean of my top choice school telling her that it was my top choice and requesting an interview.

Before that interview was granted (at my top-choice school), I received an invite from my second-choice school. Realizing that it was late in the game and that I would likely not be admitted to my top-choice, I told my second-choice school that they were my top choice and that I would withdraw my two acceptances should they accept me. In February they accepted me.

Then I received a March interview at my top-choice school. I interviewed there earlier this week and I don't know what do to.

-Should I withdraw my application from my top-choice school since I told my second-choice that they were my top choice?

-Should I wait to see if my top-choice accepts me and then decide?

-Is a letter of intent legally binding in which case I better withdraw from my top-choice?

Complicating things is the fact that both schools are state schools and I'm worried that they communicate with each other. What should I do????
 
Maybe this is just a technicality, but did you say in your letter that you would "drop my two acceptances?" Because if thats the case and you happen to be accepted to your top choice, you technically weren't referring to that school in the first place, so you wouldn't technically be lying.

If that's not how you worded it and you said you'd definitely matriculate there, then I would stick with your 2nd choice school.
 
I said "I have been accepted to two other schools. However, XX is my top choice. Should I be accepted to XX I will withdraw those two acceptances."
 
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DrDaveTx said:
Here's my issue:

In January I was accepted to two schools.

In January, I wrote a letter to the Dean of my top choice school telling her that it was my top choice and requesting an interview.

Before that interview was granted (at my top-choice school), I received an invite from my second-choice school. Realizing that it was late in the game and that I would likely not be admitted to my top-choice, I told my second-choice school that they were my top choice and that I would withdraw my two acceptances should they accept me. In February they accepted me.

Then I received a March interview at my top-choice school. I interviewed there earlier this week and I don't know what do to.

-Should I withdraw my application from my top-choice school since I told my second-choice that they were my top choice?

-Should I wait to see if my top-choice accepts me and then decide?

-Is a letter of intent legally binding in which case I better withdraw from my top-choice?

Complicating things is the fact that both schools are state schools and I'm worried that they communicate with each other. What should I do????
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Just go to the school with lower tuition. You obviously liked both schools.
 
DrDaveTx said:
I said "I have been accepted to two other schools. However, XX is my top choice. Should I be accepted to XX I will withdraw those two acceptances."
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Then I gotta say that I think you can honestly say you did not indicate you would withdraw all outstanding applications and matriculate there. Which means that technically, you'd be fine if you got into your top choice and went there instead.
 
DrDaveTx said:
They are both state schools...same tuition.
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In that case, just go to your top choice. You don't need to explain yourself. Hell, they probably have 5000 applicants saying the same thing. They might feel burned for like, what a day? Even so, I don't see what else you can do really.
 
Eric Lindros said:
In that case, just go to your top choice. You don't need to explain yourself. Hell, they probably have 5000 applicants saying the same thing. They might feel burned for like, what a day? Even so, I don't see what else you can do really.
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I guess I am nervous that they are both state schools and may talk to each other and say something like, "this dude played games with us, let's play games with him and withdraw our acceptances."
 
DrDaveTx said:
I guess I am nervous that they are both state schools and may talk to each other and say something like, "this dude played games with us, let's play games with him and withdraw our acceptances."
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If they offer you a written letter of acceptance and it's signed, I really do not think they can take that away from you. Any lawers feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

And I doubt they will put up a stink about getting you legally for saying you would come and not coming. They will fill that spot up in a second, so unless you were planning to cure cancer while you were there, they wont really care.
 
DrDaveTx said:
I guess I am nervous that they are both state schools and may talk to each other and say something like, "this dude played games with us, let's play games with him and withdraw our acceptances."
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That happened to a friend of mine last year, so really put some thought into your decision.
 
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If you're considering this a legal question, then relax and do what you feel like doing. Not only was your commitment not legally binding, I'm sure there's a way to twist the words around to make it sound as if you didn't promise what you wanted that second school to think you did promise.

But if it's an ethical question: well, you already misled your second choice school (telling them they were your first choice), and they acted in reliance on what you told them. Now, you have to decide whether to honor your word. I suspect (but hope I'm wrong) that you're going to go to your top choice, but I think you should not feel good about it. No amount of wordsmithing will get you around the fact that you led them to believe that, if they accepted you, you would accept them. If you renege, you should view it as a pragmatic but unethical choice.
 
You shouldn't declare "You are my Top Choice school and I will commit to you and drop all other acceptances if you take me" to more than one school. That is like making a marriage proposal to two different persons at the same time. Now, suppose you tell School A "you are my Top Choice"... and then School A rejects you. THEN you could go on to tell School B "you are my Top Choice", just like you'd be free to propose to another person after person A rejects you.

The situation will be really messy if you get accepted to both schools.

-Should I withdraw my application from my top-choice school since I told my second-choice that they were my top choice?
--> This seems like the only reasonable thing to do to maintain even a shred of professional integrity/image. You made a commitment to "second-choice" school by telling them "you are my Top Choice - accept me and I will withdraw from all others" --> and they accepted you! It is NOT a legally binding commitment, but it is the professional responsibility you have based on your word. If you want to be a professional, you will write a very articulate letter to "first-choice" school explaining how "second-choice" school accepted you and how your circumstances are different now and that you kindly appreciate their consideration of your file, but you made a commitment to "second-choice" school.

Orrr... you could be un-professional, ride out the storm, see what sort of result you get from "first-choice" school, and then pick "first-choice" school if they accept you. Obviously this would retract on the LOI you sent to "second-choice" school, but hey, you made a mistake, and you're young, and you'll get past this.

Whatever you do, do not let go of any acceptance (do not withdraw anywhere) until you are certain you have a seat somewhere.
 
Nothing is legally binding. Personally, I would go ahead with the top choice school application, since there will only be an ethical dilemma if you get in. If you do get in, then you should talk to your second choice school and be honest about the situation. See if you can get a chance to talk face to face with the Dean of Admissions, or someone else at the admissions office. In the future, you should try to avoid getting yourself into a position like this - don't commit until you're absolutely certain you're willing to commit.
 
What a tricky situation. In hindsight, I'm sure you regret doing it and you should. But first, let me get this straight. You have 4 schools, and you'd rank them A, B, C, and D in preference at the time of initial application. You were accepted at C and D, and while interviewing at B did not have an interview at A. You then told school B that they were your top choice (which technically, practically, and realistically it was at the time), and if accepted, you would withdraw your "other 2 acceptances," which were, for you, at school C and D.

If that is the case, then not only are you legally in the clear (no school would sue over this), ethically you are too (and I'm usually a stickler about these sorts of things). This hinges on the fact that you told them you'd withrdaw you're current acceptances not applications. You're in the clear because "top choice" has a temporal aspect to it. For instance, Baylor was my top choice school in September, but back in November WashU was (incidentally it's back to Baylor).

What we should all learn from this, especially those who haven't applied to school yet, is do not write letters of intent without giving thought to all possibilities. But who knows, maybe you won't even be accepted at school A and this will be one big non issue (maybe they prefer someone with a stronger ethical grounding and commitments). As far as schools talking to eachother, I'd doubt it, unless its Texas or California.
Out of my own wonderment, when you received school B's acceptance, did you actually withdraw from schools C and D?
 
HumbleMD said:
What a tricky situation. So let me get this straight. You have 4 schools, and you'd rank them A, B, C, and D in preference. You were accepted at C and D, and while interviewing at B did not have an interview at A. You then told school B that they were your top choice (which technically, practically, and realistically it was at the time), and if accepted, you would withdraw your "other 2 acceptances," which were, for you, at schoold C and D.

If that is the case, then not only are you legally in the clear (no school would sue over this), ethically you are too (and I'm usually a stickler about these sorts of things). This hinges on the fact that you told them you'd withrdaw you're current acceptances not applications. You're in the clear because "top choice" has a temporal aspect to it. For instance, Baylor was my top choice school in September, but back in November WashU was (incidentally it's back to Baylor).

What we should all learn from this, especially those who haven't applied to school yet, is do not write letters of intent without giving thought to all possibilities.
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That all sounds logically plausible........but if the OP did not think that picking his #1 would be unethical then he wouldnt have asked this question. But since he is asking if it is ethical he wants us to say "oh it is ok" which will subdue his guilt.......

well OP.............IT IS TOTALLY UNETHICAL and you will have to live with the guilt.........so choose wisely!
 
DoctorPLASTIC said:
That all sounds logically plausible........but if the OP did not think that picking his #1 would be unethical then he wouldnt have asked this question. But since he is asking if it is ethical he wants us to say "oh it is ok" which will subdue his guilt.......

well OP.............IT IS TOTALLY UNETHICAL and you will have to live with the guilt.........so choose wisely!
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While I do feel that simply withdrawing your application from your second choice (to whom you told that they were your first choice) and attending your top choice is ethically wrong and sleazy... the fact remains that the ball is in your court when you receive written acceptances. I believe that you whole heartedly intended on going to your second choice barring any news from your top choice (and since there was no news you assumed it was a given). My advice would attempt to alleviate many of ur issues. YES take your top choice, HOWEVER, in order to clear your conscience and prevent any deleterious actions on their part you MUST provide them with a very apologetic explanatory email. You may wish to comment on how situations have changed and while you still consider XX to be a premier institution that at this time, due to unforeseen circumstances you must look out for your best interest. blah blah blah apology apology apology. Since it does appear that you are sincere in your regret i think that would clear up many of ur issues
 
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to clarify one thing... your letter to your top choice was not to garner an acceptance correct? it was simply to obtain an interview... (what difference that makes im not sure but i think some people misunderstood)... hmmm... how to leave you with some dignity.......
 
To me it seems like you're looking for justification for what you want to do, though you're feeling guilty about it. If you didn't care, you would have just gone to your top choice without batting an eye.

From what you've written, it really seems you should go with your second choice school. You can justify going to your top school with symantics, but I think that's a little shady. Go with your second choice. Do the right thing and I feel like in the end you'll be happier.
 
MyNameIsDoctor said:
to clarify one thing... your letter to your top choice was not to garner an acceptance correct? it was simply to obtain an interview... (what difference that makes im not sure but i think some people misunderstood)... hmmm... how to leave you with some dignity.......
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Yes, my letter to my top-choice school was pre-interview simply requesting an interview.
 
good job on lying to schools to manipulate the system in your favor, yes i said lying, cause thats exactly what you did
 
MChitty said:
To me it seems like you're looking for justification for what you want to do, though you're feeling guilty about it. If you didn't care, you would have just gone to your top choice without batting an eye.

From what you've written, it really seems you should go with your second choice school. You can justify going to your top school with symantics, but I think that's a little shady. Go with your second choice. Do the right thing and I feel like in the end you'll be happier.
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Was what the OP did "shady?" Disingenuous? Manipulative? Yes. But did the OP lie, are they ethically in the wrong? Technically no (see my earlier post for the breakdown as to why). Of course, in the future, this would be an undesirible course of action to take. But, before jumping down down his/her throat, recall that the real top choice hasn't even accepted them yet. Maybe they'll see the lake of scruples during the interview.
 
HumbleMD said:
Was what the OP did "shady?" Disingenuous? Manipulative? Yes. But did the OP lie, are they ethically in the wrong. Technically no (see my earlier post for the breakdown as to why). Of course, in the future, this would be an undesirible course of action to take. But, before jumping down down his/her throat, recall that the real top choice hasn't even accepted them yet. Maybe they'll see the lake of scruples during the interview.
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I wasn't intending to jump down his/her throat. I actually think this person has good intentions because he/she has acknowledged that this is probably not the most 'right' thing to do. I did not claim that the OP was lying, I said, as you have also said, that it was a little shady (or disingenuous).

I saw your breakdown, but honestly, though it may not technically be lying, I feel like it's a little manipulative. And you're correct, it may not be an issue as the top choice has not issued an acceptance.
 
Humble MD said:
Was what the OP did "shady?" Disingenuous? Manipulative? Yes. But did the OP lie, are they ethically in the wrong. Technically no (see my earlier post for the breakdown as to why).
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Just so we're clear: you mean that (successful) attempts at deception are not ethical violations if they involve statements that, though clearly misleading, are not completely false. Non-fraudulent = ethical.

I'm sure many agree with you. I imagine the OP will go to his top choice if they accept him. I suspect most applicants would be happy to mislead schools if it meant being accepted. But I submit that it seems you may be in the wrong field. (And the irony is, I'm the one who went to law school.)
 
Shrike said:
Just so we're clear: you mean that (successful) attempts at deception are not ethical violations if they involve statements that, though clearly misleading, are not completely false. Non-fraudulent = ethical.

I'm sure many agree with you. I imagine the OP will go to his top choice if they accept him. I suspect most applicants would be happy to mislead schools if it meant being accepted. But I submit that it seems you may be in the wrong field. (And the irony is, I'm the one who went to law school.)
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Hey now, that was unneccessary. Med school admissions is not worth compromising my morals on, and I haven't. To add to the irony-fest, I'm usually the one on these threads regarding letters of intent denigrating the original poster for seeking validation for renegging on a deal.

As far as the conditions of letter of intent, it looks like we're clear that he didn't violate them. It looks like what we have conention about is the claim of a school being his "top choice." But that's a pretty temporal idea.

Should the OP have done it? No, and there'll always be a tiny cloud of guilt/question over his acceptance if it does occur. Is this the most morally reprehensible LOI violation we've seen? No, as I don't even believe there was a violation...
 
DrDaveTx said:
Here's my issue:

In January I was accepted to two schools.

In January, I wrote a letter to the Dean of my top choice school telling her that it was my top choice and requesting an interview.

Before that interview was granted (at my top-choice school), I received an invite from my second-choice school. Realizing that it was late in the game and that I would likely not be admitted to my top-choice, I told my second-choice school that they were my top choice and that I would withdraw my two acceptances should they accept me. In February they accepted me.

Then I received a March interview at my top-choice school. I interviewed there earlier this week and I don't know what do to.

-Should I withdraw my application from my top-choice school since I told my second-choice that they were my top choice?

-Should I wait to see if my top-choice accepts me and then decide?

-Is a letter of intent legally binding in which case I better withdraw from my top-choice?

Complicating things is the fact that both schools are state schools and I'm worried that they communicate with each other. What should I do????
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i agree that you made a bad by telling two schools that they were your top choice. whether or not any legal issues arise, this smacks of disingenuousness. collectively, i doubt the two schools have colluded or will collude and realize the inconsistency, but you will know. i won't go into what you should have done to avoid your "predicament," since you'll have no shortage of that advice on SDN. HOWEVER...

i think there are some assumptions here that need to be addressed:

(1) that the 2nd-choice school even looked at your letter of intent ("LOI") or used it on which to base their admissions decision. let's say they did. let's also say that by writing your LOI (which they read), and by their accepting you in reliance on your written and signed statement, that you and they have a legally binding contract (which i seriously doubt). you said you would withdraw your two acceptances you have in hand. let's say you do that, too. so you're now accepting 2nd-choice's offer. so far you haven't gotten any final decision about 1st-choice, and you withdrew from two acceptances that you preferred less than 2nd-choice, so in my mind you're "okay." if you've paid a deposit to 2nd-choice already, then you have a contract based on that consideration, but i'm pretty sure you can still renege and get the money back as anyone else who withdraws can (i.e., anyone who didn't get him- or herself in the situation you did.) both parties consent to back out of the contract this way.

(2) that 1st-choice will accept you. you have no idea what the decision will be on your candidacy with 1st-choice. let's say you're accepted. i would first call 2nd-choice, tell them that you planned to withdraw. if they say, "okay, here's our procedure" - then they either didn't read your LOI to them, or they don't care, b/c your words were not legally binding. if they instead rummage through your file, remember your LOI, and say "hey, you're bound to us now!", then i would candidly explain myself and your misplaced faith that 1st-choice had no interest in your candidacy. embarrassing, but even if it gets to that stage, i believe they'll let you off the hook. they have people on their waitlist, after all.

(3) that your January letter of interest to 1st-choice somehow created a conflict. you sent 1st-choice a letter of interest (e.g., "hey guys, i really like you, give me an interview!"), not a letter of intent (e.g., "i like you so much that i'll withdraw everywhere if you even give me an interview!") of any sort. so as it stands today, you don't have two competing, conflicting LOIs. even if your 2nd-choice LOI were legally binding, by withdrawing from the two other acceptances you have (had), you fulfilled the consideration required; you don't need to take the extra step of withdrawing from 1st-choice. your LOI can be interpreted as "if you accept me, i will withdraw from the acceptances i have so far." if you then get a 1st-choice acceptance, and you dump 2nd choice, i really don't think 2nd-choice is going to seek damages for breach of contract, a negative injunction prohibiting you from accepting 1st-choice's offer, or a positive injunction forcing you to go to 2nd-choice. i just don't think med school admissions offices care that much about you or your LOI. it shows how strongly you feel (felt) about a place, and that might help you get in, but i don't think it suddenly creates an enforceable contract. it was the deposit you paid that created a contract. and i believe what you wrote to them doesn't create the added burden on you to absolutely attend 2nd-choice. again, i think you can withdraw as everyone else can and get your deposit back.

i would ride this and see how 1st-choice even plays out. you might be rejected, in which case this whole thread is moot. i'm not sure how you feel if you were waitlisted at 1st-choice, but since it's in the same state as 2nd-choice, with similar tuition, you might wanna wait it out as well (not like you're planning on going to California for school and suddenly get off a waitlist at a Boston school at the last second).

if this scenario had involved a bundle of scholarship money that 2nd-choice offered you in reliance on your LOI, then it would be a significantly different situation, and i believe a contract would exist. but again, you don't even know if they read or cared about the LOI you sent them.

now i will wait shortly for Law2Doc to set me right and put me in my place...or any other attorney-premed/med student/physician, for that matter...
 
The OP hasn't done anything wrong. At the time he sent these statements he meant them honestly. He is not legally bound to adhere to anything he says in those statements. Medical schools hold so much power and still have the nerve to make you get down on your knees to beg to get in. I like it when someone shoves it in their face and tries to take advantage of the system. I hope the OP gets into his top choice. I hope he sends letters of intent to every other school and then turns them down. Medical schools show very little empathy or understanding towards applicants. I am not saying they should but I like it when applicants take a little bit of the power back.

The OP is navigating the med school admissions waters well. Don't let anybody guilt trip you with hypocritical bullsh*t about ethics when all these moralist windbags would be doing the same thing. These schools won't team up against you. Good luck OP I am pulling for you!
 
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nbp.medlaw said:
i agree that you made a bad by telling two schools that they were your top choice. whether or not any legal issues arise, this smacks of disingenuousness. collectively, i doubt the two schools have colluded or will collude and realize the inconsistency, but you will know. i won't go into what you should have done to avoid your "predicament," since you'll have no shortage of that advice on SDN. HOWEVER...

i think there are some assumptions here that need to be addressed:

(1) that the 2nd-choice school even looked at your letter of intent ("LOI") or used it on which to base their admissions decision. let's say they did. let's also say that by writing your LOI (which they read), and by their accepting you in reliance on your written and signed statement, that you and they have a legally binding contract (which i seriously doubt). you said you would withdraw your two acceptances you have in hand. let's say you do that, too. so you're now accepting 2nd-choice's offer. so far you haven't gotten any final decision about 1st-choice, and you withdrew from two acceptances that you preferred less than 2nd-choice, so in my mind you're "okay." if you've paid a deposit to 2nd-choice already, then you have a contract based on that consideration, but i'm pretty sure you can still renege and get the money back as anyone else who withdraws can (i.e., anyone who didn't get him- or herself in the situation you did.) both parties consent to back out of the contract this way.

(2) that 1st-choice will accept you. you have no idea what the decision will be on your candidacy with 1st-choice. let's say you're accepted. i would first call 2nd-choice, tell them that you planned to withdraw. if they say, "okay, here's our procedure" - then they either didn't read your LOI to them, or they don't care, b/c your words were not legally binding. if they instead rummage through your file, remember your LOI, and say "hey, you're bound to us now!", then i would candidly explain myself and your misplaced faith that 1st-choice had no interest in your candidacy. embarrassing, but even if it gets to that stage, i believe they'll let you off the hook. they have people on their waitlist, after all.

(3) that your January letter of interest to 1st-choice somehow created a conflict. you sent 1st-choice a letter of interest (e.g., "hey guys, i really like you, give me an interview!"), not a letter of intent (e.g., "i like you so much that i'll withdraw everywhere if you even give me an interview!") of any sort. so as it stands today, you don't have two competing, conflicting LOIs. even if your 2nd-choice LOI were legally binding, by withdrawing from the two other acceptances you have (had), you fulfilled the consideration required; you don't need to take the extra step of withdrawing from 1st-choice. your LOI can be interpreted as "if you accept me, i will withdraw from the acceptances i have so far." if you then get a 1st-choice acceptance, and you dump 2nd choice, i really don't think 2nd-choice is going to seek damages for breach of contract, a negative injunction prohibiting you from accepting 1st-choice's offer, or a positive injunction forcing you to go to 2nd-choice. i just don't think med school admissions offices care that much you or about your LOI. it shows how strongly you feel (felt) about a place, and that might help you get in, but i don't think it suddenly creates an enforceable contract. it was the deposit you paid that created a contract. and i believe what you wrote to them doesn't create the added burden on you to absolutely attend 2nd-choice. again, i think you can withdraw as everyone else can and get your deposit back.

i would ride this and see how 1st-choice even plays out. you might be rejected, in which case this whole thread is moot. i'm not sure how you feel if you were waitlisted at 1st-choice, but since it's in the same state as 2nd-choice, with similar tuition, you might wanna wait it out as well (not like you're planning on going to California for school and suddenly get off a waitlist at a Boston school at the last second).

if this scenario had involved a bundle of scholarship money that 2nd-choice offered you in reliance on your LOI, then it would be a significantly different situation, and i believe a contract would exist. but again, you don't even know if they read or cared about the LOI you sent them.

now i will wait shortly for Law2Doc to set me right and put me in my place...or any other attorney-premed/med student/physician, for that matter...
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Thanks for taking the time to write this lengthy response!


Tyronebiggums said:
The OP hasn't done anything wrong. At the time he sent these statements he meant them honestly. He is not legally bound to adhere to anything he says in those statements. Medical schools hold so much power and still have the nerve to make you get down on your knees to beg to get in. I like it when someone shoves it in their face and tries to take advantage of the system. I hope the OP gets into his top choice. I hope he sends letters of intent to every other school and then turns them down. Medical schools show very little empathy or understanding towards applicants. I am not saying they should but I like it when applicants take a little bit of the power back.

The OP is navigating the med school admissions waters well. Don't let anybody guilt trip you with hypocritical bullsh*t about ethics when all these moralist windbags would be doing the same thing. These schools won't team up against you. Good luck OP I am pulling for you!
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You have quite the interesting take on this matter!!!! 🙂 It almost sounds like you did something along these lines...
 
You could keep your #2 choice acceptance for now. If you are accepted by your #1 choice in the future, then decide what do to when it happens. Schools can easily get someone else, so just go where you'd prefer to be. Next time, try not to over-commit.
 
HumbleMD said:
Was what the OP did "shady?" Disingenuous? Manipulative? Yes.
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:laugh: Are you kidding? Seriously dude, it's med school admissions, not your wife. There's nothing shady about this. You're betting a lot on this process: money, your life, your sanity, etc. So he told two schools that he really loved that he wanted to go there? Big friggin deal. I highly doubt the dean of either school is steaming mad and can't sleep over Johnny med applicant being "shady" about his letter of intent.

You wanna know what's shady? How about taking $100 from an applicant and not "reviewing" his application for 7 months or not getting back to him at all. Two schools I applied to, both $100, haven't said a single word to me in 7 months, even after several attempted phone calls. Now that is shady my friend.
 
Eric Lindros said:
:laugh: Are you kidding? Seriously dude, it's med school admissions, not your wife. There's nothing shady about this. You're betting a lot on this process: money, your life, your sanity, etc. So he told two schools that he really loved that he wanted to go there? Big friggin deal. I highly doubt the dean of either school is steaming mad and can't sleep over Johnny med applicant being "shady" about his letter of intent.

You wanna know what's shady? How about taking $100 from an applicant and not "reviewing" his application for 7 months or not getting back to him at all. Two schools I applied to, both $80, haven't said a single word to me in 7 months, even after several attempted phone calls. Now that is shady my friend.
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Thanks Eric. See guys, I told you I'm usually the one people are getting angry with for being too morally stiff (which is why I love this thread where I actually find nothing technically ethically wrong with the OP).

This fatalism and justification in the context of medical school admissions argument is hog-wash. If I had to compromise my morals to get accepted, I wouldn't have applied (and I'm not the only one). It's not about being disingenuous to the schools that we're mostly concerned about, but to other applicants (ex. lying and saying a school is your #1 choice, and they choose you for that reason over someone who it actually was their #1 choice). Be careful with the 2 wrongs make a right logic. It's pretty dangerous. An eye for an eye leaves a room full of blind men...
 
OP: However this plays out, I think you are going to be fine. This is an awkward situation for you right now, but in the larger scheme of things it probably won't matter later on. Take it as a learning experience (and for gosh sake don't put yourself in a similar pickle come match time in your 4th year by telling all of the programs that you will rank them #1 or something).

Future Applicants: This is a learning opportunity for you as well. Be carefull of your correspondence with med school admissions. Even if you are freaking out and feel like you need to do something bold to increase your chances of an acceptance, keep your actions measured. And definitely be honost! If a school is your number one and you would definitely go there, then perhaps it is worth sending a letter of intent that states as much. If they are not your number one, but you feel that they are your best chance, then send a different type of letter that expresses your strong interest and how you see yourself as a good fit for the school.
 
HumbleMD said:
This fatalism and justification in the context of medical school admissions argument is hog-wash. If I had to compromise my morals to get accepted, I wouldn't have applied (and I'm not the only one). It's not about being disingenuous to the schools that we're mostly concerned about, but to other applicants (ex. lying and saying a school is your #1 choice, and they choose you for that reason over someone who it actually was their #1 choice). Be careful with the 2 wrongs make a right logic. It's pretty dangerous. An eye for an eye leaves a room full of blind men...
Click to expand...

Ok, right here you are preaching your own ideals, which I also think is dangerous. A lot of people think gambling is immoral, but I have $100 on my bracket winning and I see nothing wrong with that. Some people think homosexuality is immoral, but I could give a hoot personally.

In my opinion, saying a school is your number 1 choice doesn't even fall into the realm of so called morals. When I was applying, any medical school that gave me a medical degree seemed like my number 1 choice. They were all my number 1 choice, and I would have told them that because in reality, that's how I felt. If that goes against your morals, great. I support you not doing it. But it sure as heck doesn't go against mine, so don't tell me that it's immoral.

I know I have opened up a can of worms about what is moral and what's not, but I personally do not consider this lying, considering the circumstances and how opinions of medical schools can change. Technically, it is a lie. But it's not an immoral lie to me. I know we have differing opinions about it, but neither yours nor mine are necessarily the correct one.

Not trying to start a fight with you Humble. Just trying to give a different point of view
 
Eric Lindros said:
Ok, right here you are preaching your own ideals, which I also think is dangerous. A lot of people think gambling is immoral, but I have $100 on my bracket winning and I see nothing wrong with that. Some people think homosexuality is immoral, but I could give a hoot personally.

In my opinion, saying a school is your number 1 choice doesn't even fall into the realm of so called morals. When I was applying, any medical school that gave me a medical degree seemed like my number 1 choice. They were all my number 1 choice, and I would have told them that because in reality, that's how I felt. If that goes against your morals, great. I support you not doing it. But it sure as heck doesn't go against mine, so don't tell me that it's immoral.

I know I have opened up a can of worms about what is moral and what's not, but I personally do not consider this lying, considering the circumstances and how opinions of medical schools can change. Technically, it is a lie. But it's not an immoral lie to me. I know we have differing opinions about it, but neither yours nor mine are necessarily the correct one.

Not trying to start a fight with you Humble. Just trying to give a different point of view
Click to expand...

Sorry, I guess you didn't read my earlier posts on this thread. I'm in complete agreement with you (wow, that sounded funny), that the OP didn't technically lie (I gave the example of my own "top choice" changing over time - although I usually avoid telling schools that because I know it changes). Also agreed that trying to assert one's morals over another is dangerous. However, most cultures (and perhaps even the med school application culture) view lying as a bad thing.

And again, in lying to multiple schools and telling them they're your number one choice it's not the schools who you're disenfranchising (they could care less) but other applicants and your future coleagues (these are who you're competing with right now, not the schools). In an act of writing multiple letters of intent, you may be taking a spot from a fellow applicant who truly held one of those schools as their actual top choice. Seems pretty disingenuous to me (and I'm sure to your fellow applicants).
 
Eric Lindros said:
Ok, right here you are preaching your own ideals, which I also think is dangerous. A lot of people think gambling is immoral, but I have $100 on my bracket winning and I see nothing wrong with that. Some people think homosexuality is immoral, but I could give a hoot personally.

In my opinion, saying a school is your number 1 choice doesn't even fall into the realm of so called morals. When I was applying, any medical school that gave me a medical degree seemed like my number 1 choice. They were all my number 1 choice, and I would have told them that because in reality, that's how I felt. If that goes against your morals, great. I support you not doing it. But it sure as heck doesn't go against mine, so don't tell me that it's immoral.

I know I have opened up a can of worms about what is moral and what's not, but I personally do not consider this lying, considering the circumstances and how opinions of medical schools can change. Technically, it is a lie. But it's not an immoral lie to me. I know we have differing opinions about it, but neither yours nor mine are necessarily the correct one.

Not trying to start a fight with you Humble. Just trying to give a different point of view
Click to expand...

Go be a lawyer
 
Hey -

Just wanted to thank you guys for all your input.

It's much appreciated - DrDaveTx
 
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hey drdavetx,

im guessing im probably too late in answering this, but why dont you just pick the school you want and write a letter to the school you sent the letter of intent to explaining what happened? you didnt mean for this to happen, so i think as long as you explain yourself, they will undertsand.

sorry if anyone else already suggested htis. i didnt read all the replies.
 
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