Ethnicity Question

[potatopotaaaato]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to preface this by saying I've read through the previous threads on ethinicity/URM status and am in no way trying to game the system here.

I was adopted at birth through a closed, domestic adoption. I was raised in a white, high SES family. During my freshman year of college I met my birth mother who told me that my biological father was Mexican. After this, I visited the region in Mexico that he is from and spent a semester studying Spanish language in Spain. I now speak fluent Spanish and completed and Americorps year working with Latinx youth.

My main question is the best way in which to discuss this on my application. I plan on focusing my PS on another topic, but it seems disingenuous to write about this in the diversity essay since I am not really an URM. However, it is something important to me that I would like to highlight on my application.

Any advice would be great, thanks!

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[marcosma]

The diversity essay can be anything - it doesn’t have to be racial. Even writing about the experience of seeking out your birth parents and finding passion for their culture could be an interesting essay.

I think the main point here is to NOT say that you learned Spanish and did Americorps because you are Mexican-American ... but instead that your journey to find your mom and learn about your roots opened you up to these new things that helped you connect with your communities through service.

 

[candbgirl]

The diversity essay can be anything - it doesn’t have to be racial. Even writing about the experience of seeking out your birth parents and finding passion for their culture could be an interesting essay.

I think the main point here is to NOT say that you learned Spanish and did Americorps because you are Mexican-American ... but instead that your journey to find your mom and learn about your roots opened you up to these new things that helped you connect with your communities through service.

What a great response.❤️

 

[DNAJB6]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to preface this by saying I've read through the previous threads on ethinicity/URM status and am in no way trying to game the system here.

I was adopted at birth through a closed, domestic adoption. I was raised in a white, high SES family. During my freshman year of college I met my birth mother who told me that my biological father was Mexican. After this, I visited the region in Mexico that he is from and spent a semester studying Spanish language in Spain. I now speak fluent Spanish and completed and Americorps year working with Latinx youth.

My main question is the best way in which to discuss this on my application. I plan on focusing my PS on another topic, but it seems disingenuous to write about this in the diversity essay since I am not really an URM. However, it is something important to me that I would like to highlight on my application.

Any advice would be great, thanks!

You are. If I were in your shoes I would play every available card in my hand to get an acceptance into medical school.

 

[Goro]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to preface this by saying I've read through the previous threads on ethinicity/URM status and am in no way trying to game the system here.

I was adopted at birth through a closed, domestic adoption. I was raised in a white, high SES family. During my freshman year of college I met my birth mother who told me that my biological father was Mexican. After this, I visited the region in Mexico that he is from and spent a semester studying Spanish language in Spain. I now speak fluent Spanish and completed and Americorps year working with Latinx youth.

My main question is the best way in which to discuss this on my application. I plan on focusing my PS on another topic, but it seems disingenuous to write about this in the diversity essay since I am not really an URM. However, it is something important to me that I would like to highlight on my application.

Any advice would be great, thanks!

Unless you have significant service to Hispanic communities, I suggest that you do not check the Hispanic box, lest you appear to be yet another unethical pre-med trying to game the system.

 

[marcosma]

Unless you have significant service to Hispanic communities, I suggest that you do not check the Hispanic box, lest you appear to be yet another unethical pre-med trying to game the system.

Really? Even if he is indeed Hispanic? Wouldn’t it be unethical to lie to say that he is Caucasian?

 

[sparkysparkyboomman]

Unless you have significant service to Hispanic communities, I suggest that you do not check the Hispanic box, lest you appear to be yet another unethical pre-med trying to game the system.

That’s an interesting comment.


Kind of a different situation, but my father is from Mexico and my mom is essentially white.

I definitely checked the box for Hispanic despite not specifically serving Hispanic communities.


Can I ask what your reasoning is?

 

[candbgirl]

If you read OPs post, he doesn’t consider himself URM. At least that’s what he states.

 

[Goro]

That’s an interesting comment.


Kind of a different situation, but my father is from Mexico and my mom is essentially white.

I definitely checked the box for Hispanic despite not specifically serving Hispanic communities.


Can I ask what your reasoning is?

Too many unethical pre-meds suddenly discover their long lost ethnicity when applying to med school.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to preface this by saying I've read through the previous threads on ethinicity/URM status and am in no way trying to game the system here.

I was adopted at birth through a closed, domestic adoption. I was raised in a white, high SES family. During my freshman year of college I met my birth mother who told me that my biological father was Mexican. After this, I visited the region in Mexico that he is from and spent a semester studying Spanish language in Spain. I now speak fluent Spanish and completed and Americorps year working with Latinx youth.

My main question is the best way in which to discuss this on my application. I plan on focusing my PS on another topic, but it seems disingenuous to write about this in the diversity essay since I am not really an URM. However, it is something important to me that I would like to highlight on my application.

Any advice would be great, thanks!

You could go with the angle that you are adopted and how that affected you as you were growing up, not knowing your birth parents, and how things changed after you met your birth mother and learned of your birth father's ethnicity. In some ways, helping Latinx youth is a way of reaching out to kids who are where your father once was.

 

[DNAJB6]

Unless you have significant service to Hispanic communities, I suggest that you do not check the Hispanic box, lest you appear to be yet another unethical pre-med trying to game the system.

I'm not trying to argue as you are in a far better position to understand how adcoms view things, but how is it unethical to provide factually accurate demographic information on your application?

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm not trying to argue as you are in a far better position to understand how adcoms view things, but how is it unethical to provide factually accurate demographic information on your application?

I really can't speak for the great @Goro, who has proven over many years that he is more than capable of speaking for himself, but, as a fellow applicant who is not entitled to any diversity boost, I do understand the desire and need to make accommodations for applicants who did not have access to all of the resources I had to this point.

That said, a child adopted at birth by a white, high SES family might be deemed to be gaming a system meant to equalize the playing field for low SES URMs by providing factually accurate demographic information about a biological parent who gave him up for adoption at birth, and that MIGHT be deemed to be unethical by an adcom that was aware of all of the facts and circumstances. After all, schools aren't asking for this information in order to generate a 23andme report, and it's really disingenuous to pretend otherwise!

 

[Shotapp]

Op why are you discovering this right now though (applying to medical school is very close)?
It irks me when an applicant happens to discover their roots or whatever right before they apply to medical school...

 

[marcosma]

If the applicant is Hispanic, they should check the Hispanic box. Right?

Yes, they shouldn’t write a disadvantaged statement based on their race. Obviously.

But ... he’s a POC. Right? I feel like I’m going crazy here. How is everybody advising this person to lie about their ethnicity (to say he is white) to negatively impact their application?

Someone who is Mexican-American still increases representation of Hispanics in healthcare and can still be a damn good mentor to younger Mexican-American students and aspiring doctors. I think that to say that he is anything other than Mexican-American is dishonest.

 

[Engrailed]

I really can't speak for the great @Goro, who has proven over many years that he is more than capable of speaking for himself, but, as a fellow applicant who is not entitled to any diversity boost, I do understand the desire and need to make accommodations for applicants who did not have access to all of the resources I had to this point.

That said, a child adopted at birth by a white, high SES family might be deemed to be gaming a system meant to equalize the playing field for low SES URMs by providing factually accurate demographic information about a biological parent who gave him up for adoption at birth, and that MIGHT be deemed to be unethical by an adcom that was aware of all of the facts and circumstances. After all, schools aren't asking for this information in order to generate a 23andme report, and it's really disingenuous to pretend otherwise!

Yes schools are not asking about demographics to compile a 23andme report but given the circumstances, in general (regardless of whether this person is Hispanic or not), wouldn’t you agree that OP’s life narrative would, in fact, add diversity to a class? I know of only one person in my life who has been thru similar circumstances (adopted and raised in a completely different socioeconomic background).

Although OP should not be claiming disadvantaged, writing a sob story etc, I don’t think checking Hispanic is necessarily wrong or unethical. It would actually be the right thing to do and adcoms would be curious about this person’s unique life journey thus far.

 

[imbesrs]

If the applicant is Hispanic, they should check the Hispanic box. Right?

Yes, they shouldn’t write a disadvantaged statement based on their race. Obviously.

But ... he’s a POC. Right? I feel like I’m going crazy here. How is everybody advising this person to lie about their ethnicity (to say he is white) to negatively impact their application?

Someone who is Mexican-American still increases representation of Hispanics in healthcare and can still be a damn good mentor to younger Mexican-American students and aspiring doctors. I think that to say that he is anything other than Mexican-American is dishonest.

this is entirely correct. Everything in this thread is being overthought like crazy wow

 

[LizzyM]

OP, you'll be completing the US Census form on or before April 1. Consider how you will check the race/ethnicitiy boxes. Use that as a template of how you complete the AMCAS application later in the year.

 

[R=1-sin(theta)]

Unless you have significant service to Hispanic communities, I suggest that you do not check the Hispanic box, lest you appear to be yet another unethical pre-med trying to game the system.

 

[Goro]

I'm not trying to argue as you are in a far better position to understand how adcoms view things, but how is it unethical to provide factually accurate demographic information on your application?

Because it tends to bite people on the ass.

 

[deleted994889]

Does the OP look Hispanic? I know it's a very superficial thing, but if he/she doesn't, then they're gonna fall into the situation @Goro has presented. Adcoms are not running 23andme tests to see if you're telling the truth. They're going to see your application picture, think "bleh another one," and throw your app in the bin. Adcoms only need 1 excuse (fair or not) to dismiss an applicant. Don't give them any!

My thoughts: OP writes essay about discovering roots like @marcosma suggested. If OP looks Hispanic, OP can check Hispanic if they want.

 

[blurb_123]

Because it tends to bite people on the ass.

can you elaborate?

 

[Dr. Faust]

Being hispanic was not a major part of your life and upbringing being that you did not discover such until adulthood. Also, learning Spanish in Spain instead of learning from a relative or a hispanic neighborhood gives a waft of privilege (sounds more like a study-cation). All our genetics go back to Africa, doesn't mean we should check African American on the AMCAS.

 

[Goro]

can you elaborate?

As I mentioned earlier, Adcoms are tired of people who suddenly discover their ethnicity only upon application to med school. I'm not singling out the OP, but s/he only apparently learned of their Mexican ancestry in college.

It's easy to talk the talk, but one needs to walk the walk, hence my comment on the need for service to Hispanic communities.

 

[candbgirl]

OP have you ever met your father ? I’m assuming you have because you jumped on Americorps and studied in Spain(not that studying in Spain is comparable to studying in Mexico). But maybe you haven’t and you have strung together your activities to take advantage of the URM advantage. It is interesting that people have asked questions and made statements and assumptions and you haven’t even bothered to reply. Ultimately it’s up to you! Will you be completing the US Census in April? How will you fill that out?

 

[DNAJB6]

Does the OP look Hispanic? I know it's a very superficial thing, but if he/she doesn't, then they're gonna fall into the situation @Goro has presented. Adcoms are not running 23andme tests to see if you're telling the truth. They're going to see your application picture, think "bleh another one," and throw your app in the bin. Adcoms only need 1 excuse (fair or not) to dismiss an applicant. Don't give them any!

My thoughts: OP writes essay about discovering roots like @marcosma suggested. If OP looks Hispanic, OP can check Hispanic. If not, don't.

That itself is a problem. I have had Puerto Rican (both paternal and maternal lineage) friends that lived and were raised in Puerto Rico, are culturally very Hispanic, but present as 100% white without any coloration whatsoever. If they checked "Hispanic," would they be prejudiced because they aren't brown enough? That would be insane.

 

[deleted994889]

That itself is a problem. I have had Puerto Rican (both paternal and maternal lineage) friends that lived and were raised in Puerto Rico, are culturally very Hispanic, but present as 100% white without any coloration whatsoever. If they checked "Hispanics," would they be prejudiced because they aren't brown enough? That would be insane.

I agree this is a complicated issue. I was commenting on this OP's particular situation since they are half white (birth mother's race I presume is white) and probably has a white last name (due to being adopted). For your friends' scenarios, I wouldn't know what to advise

 

[blurb_123]

“Looking Hispanic” is a pretty offensive, reductive thing to say. There is no Hispanic “look”. They are extremely diverse in many aspects, looks included.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes schools are not asking about demographics to compile a 23andme report but given the circumstances, in general (regardless of whether this person is Hispanic or not), wouldn’t you agree that OP’s life narrative would, in fact, add diversity to a class? I know of only one person in my life who has been thru similar circumstances (adopted and raised in a completely different socioeconomic background).

Although OP should not be claiming disadvantaged, writing a sob story etc, I don’t think checking Hispanic is necessarily wrong or unethical. It would actually be the right thing to do and adcoms would be curious about this person’s unique life journey thus far.

Not really. He was adopted at birth. He wasn't raised in a completely different socioeconomic background; he was raised in the only background (high SES) he knows. His biological father's ethnicity is interesting, and relevant to a 23andme report, but really has no relevance to a med school application.

OP only met his biological mother a few years ago (no indication the mother is a URM), never met his father, and was not raised by either. I also know low SES URMs who didn't raise me. Whether or not I share DNA with them is not relevant to my application.

OP can certainly tell the story of how he came to visit the region in Mexico that his biological father is from, spent a semester studying Spanish language in Spain, now speaks fluent Spanish and completed an Americorps year working with Latinx youth, but he is no more entitled to a URM preference than any other privileged, white, high SES candidate.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

oh man this again. I've said this before, but as a mixed race person I find a lot of the advice given on SDN about this to be complete BS. The ethnicity box on AMCAS is NOT asking "are you URM", that's up to the school to decide. If OP considers themselves mexican (and would mark that on the census or similar), they should indicate that alongside whatever other ethnicity they identify with (surprise, you can check multiple boxes!)

Ethnicity is not always about community service or oppression. For many of us, it's about family and heritage. I'm part asian, but i grew up in a predominantly white community, don't speak the language, don't have service experience directed towards asian communities, but it's still an incredibly important part of my family story and identity, so I check the box (plus the white box as well). Would you tell me not to check that box on AMCAS because it's "disingenuous"? It would feel disingenuous to me to check only the white box. And if we went solely based on looks, I don't look particularly like either box i check (99% of people guess that I am hispanic by looks alone, so that's a dumb way to determine things since I very much am not).

OP's family story is complicated, but I actually think that makes it all the more compelling. They should not write a diversity essay about being mexican. but i think the diversity of adoption + discovering an unknown family history (and the complex feelings/experiences that come along with it) could be effective if written well.

 

[KnightDoc]

oh man this again. I've said this before, but as a mixed race person I find a lot of the advice given on SDN about this to be complete BS. The ethnicity box on AMCAS is NOT asking "are you URM", that's up to the school to decide. If OP considers themselves mexican (and would mark that on the census or similar), they should indicate that alongside whatever other ethnicity they identify with (surprise, you can check multiple boxes!)

Ethnicity is not always about community service or oppression. For many of us, it's about family and heritage. I'm part asian, but i grew up in a predominantly white community, don't speak the language, don't have service experience directed towards asian communities, but it's still an incredibly important part of my family story and identity, so I check the box (plus the white box as well). Would you tell me not to check that box on AMCAS because it's "disingenuous"? It would feel disingenuous to me to check only the white box. And if we went solely based on looks, I don't look particularly like either box i check (99% of people guess that I am hispanic by looks alone, so that's a dumb way to determine things since I very much am not).

OP's family story is complicated, but I actually think that makes it all the more compelling. They should not write a diversity essay about being mexican. but i think the diversity of adoption + discovering an unknown family history (and the complex feelings/experiences that come along with it) could be effective if written well.

No, you are 1,000% totally fine. Now, if you didn't have any Asian features, were adopted at birth and raised by a White family and didn't have any idea at all that you had any Asian blood until someone told you during your freshman year in college that your biological father was Asian, would you still feel compelled to check that box, knowing that it wouldn't confer any advantage to you in the admission process (and might even have a negative impact to the extent that ORM is really a thing in admissions)?

If so, then fine, but the question is never whether an URM should identify as White because they recently discover some White blood in their family tree; it's always the other way around, which creates the inference that someone is trying to game an advantage rather than connecting with their roots and feeling a deep need to share that with adcoms.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

No, you are 1,000% totally fine. Now, if you didn't have any Asian features, were adopted at birth and raised by a White family and didn't have any idea at all that you had any Asian blood until someone told you during your freshman year in college that your biological father was Asian, would you still feel compelled to check that box, knowing that it wouldn't confer any advantage to you in the admission process (and might even have a negative impact to the extent that ORM is really a thing in admissions)?

If so, then fine, but the question is never whether an ORM or URM should identify as White because they recently discover some White blood in their family tree; it's always the other way around, which creates the inference that someone is trying to game an advantage rather than connecting with their roots and feeling a deep need to share that with adcoms.

I might, if the discovery of this information had led me down a path of self-reflection and discovery like it appears OP has done. I'll be the first to tell you that genetic ancestry, race, ethinicity, self-identification, etc are all different and complicated concepts, but this appears to be something OP has delved into in order to learn more about their family background. If asked about it in an interview, they can explain exactly that. I'm not adopted, but many adopted folks I know have reflected on the question of "where did I come from" - and it's often complicated! But like I said, if they'd check it on the census they should go ahead and check it on AMCAS.

(What exactly is an asian feature anyway? keep in mind we all look different - as I said, I would never be guessed as asian on first sight. But I also don't look white either. We have no idea what OP looks like.)

(I could go into a long rant here about "white" as default and the concepts of one drop rule or blood quantum or all the other historical nuances that make ethnic identity such a complex topic but I think most of SDN would appreciate it if I refrained)

 

[KnightDoc]

I might, if the discovery of this information had led me down a path of self-reflection and discovery like it appears OP has done. I'll be the first to tell you that genetic ancestry, race, ethinicity, self-identification, etc are all different and complicated concepts, but this appears to be something OP has delved into in order to learn more about their family background. If asked about it in an interview, they can explain exactly that. I'm not adopted, but many adopted folks I know have reflected on the question of "where did I come from" - and it's often complicated! But like I said, if they'd check it on the census they should go ahead and check it on AMCAS.

(What exactly is an asian feature anyway? keep in mind we all look different - as I said, I would never be guessed as asian on first sight. But I also don't look white either. We have no idea what OP looks like.)

(I could go into a long rant here about "white" as default and the concepts of one drop rule or blood quantum or all the other historical nuances that make ethnic identity such a complex topic but I think most of SDN would appreciate it if I refrained)

All of your points are well taken, and I also really don't want to jump down this rabbit hole. I think the point made by the adcoms, though, is that they question whether or not the path of self reflection and discovery is sincere or is an attempt to game a system.

Throughout high school, college and now med school applications I have never seen a question from a URM asking how explain their journey regarding their discovery of White roots, and whether to check that box when asked for demographic information. That, and the fact that these discoveries invariably happen not during formative years, but on the eve of an application, create a level of skepticism that @Goro described as biting people on the ass.

The same really doesn't apply to you. You not only sound extremely sincere, and your story is interesting, but, importantly, your status as White or Asian would not confer an advantage to you in admissions one way or the other, so your motives in exploring the topic or checking one box or two would not be questioned.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

All of your points are well taken, and I also really don't want to jump down this rabbit hole. I think the point made by the adcoms, though, is that they question whether or not the path of self reflection and discovery is sincere or is an attempt to game a system.

Throughout high school, college and now med school applications I have never seen a question from a URM asking how explain their journey regarding their discovery of White roots, and whether to check that box when asked for demographic information. That, and the fact that these discoveries invariably happen not during formative years, but on the eve of an application, create a level of skepticism that @Goro described as biting people on the ass.

The same really doesn't apply to you. You not only sound extremely sincere, and your story is interesting, but, importantly, your status as White or Asian would not confer an advantage to you in admissions one way or the other, so your motives in exploring the topic or checking one box or two would not be questioned.

To be clear, I'm not at all concerned about myself. I check those boxes quite confidently. I'm using it to prove a point that perhaps the way we respond to people asking these questions is flawed. Yes, there's obviously people who lie or otherwise abuse the system, and that's wrong. But there are many people who just have a complicated ethnic identity and should not be told that they need to omit something from their application that is otherwise true to them. And there's no one correct way for someone to look, or language to speak. You shouldn't write a diversity essay about it if it's not a big part of your life, but many people are just asking about literally checking a single box.

The white heritage thing is where the omitted rant about the "one drop rule" comes in - historically in the US, even a small percentage of non-white ancestry (specifically black, but there's similar ideas for other groups) was enough to put you fully in the "other" category. so for many, it's not surprising that there might be some white ancestry in a family that otherwise considers itself to be an ethnic minority, or even if it is surprising, the way identity is conceptualized in the US would still lead them to be primarily thought of as "other"

 

[deleted804295]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to preface this by saying I've read through the previous threads on ethinicity/URM status and am in no way trying to game the system here.

I was adopted at birth through a closed, domestic adoption. I was raised in a white, high SES family. During my freshman year of college I met my birth mother who told me that my biological father was Mexican. After this, I visited the region in Mexico that he is from and spent a semester studying Spanish language in Spain. I now speak fluent Spanish and completed and Americorps year working with Latinx youth.

My main question is the best way in which to discuss this on my application. I plan on focusing my PS on another topic, but it seems disingenuous to write about this in the diversity essay since I am not really an URM. However, it is something important to me that I would like to highlight on my application.

Any advice would be great, thanks!

You are URM.

 

[deleted804295]

Unless you have significant service to Hispanic communities, I suggest that you do not check the Hispanic box, lest you appear to be yet another unethical pre-med trying to game the system.

He is Mexican. There is no service requirement towards being a certain race.

 

[deleted804295]

Too many unethical pre-meds suddenly discover their long lost ethnicity when applying to med school.

He was adopted. This isn't the classic case of 4% Cherokee raised by white birth parents we see in pre-meds.

This is an individual who was adopted, didn't know his roots, finally figures it out and finds out they're a different race.

This discussion would not be had if OP were half black because phenotypically it'd be quite obvious they're black. The same logic should apply to OP regardless of phenotype because this is how America created its racial system starting with slavery.

 

[Dave1980]

From a selfish point of view you should check it if your application isn't strong enough to get in without it. You are trying to game the system though...obviously.

 

[Goro]

He was adopted. This isn't the classic case of 4% Cherokee raised by white birth parents we see in pre-meds.

This is an individual who was adopted, didn't know his roots, finally figures it out and finds out they're a different race.

This discussion would not be had if OP were half black because phenotypically it'd be quite obvious they're black. The same logic should apply to OP regardless of phenotype because this is how America created its racial system starting with slavery.

Like it or not, the well has been poisoned for OP by unethical premeds.

I'm remind of an SDNer who discovered NA ancestry at the last minute. He had 19 IIs and 18 rejections. Outright and immediate rejections.


The only accept came from his state school, which he most likely got not for being NA, but not being a resident.

 

[potatopotaaaato]

Op why are you discovering this right now though (applying to medical school is very close)?
It irks me when an applicant happens to discover their roots or whatever right before they apply to medical school...

Hi there! I actually met my birth mother about 5 years ago when I was a Freshman. I was not in a position to meet my biological parents until this point. Also not that I need to justify this to you but I had no intention of applying to med school at that point - graduated with a Finance/Spanish degree.

 

[AmaranthMoor]

All of your points are well taken, and I also really don't want to jump down this rabbit hole. I think the point made by the adcoms, though, is that they question whether or not the path of self reflection and discovery is sincere or is an attempt to game a system.

Throughout high school, college and now med school applications I have never seen a question from a URM asking how explain their journey regarding their discovery of White roots, and whether to check that box when asked for demographic information. That, and the fact that these discoveries invariably happen not during formative years, but on the eve of an application, create a level of skepticism that @Goro described as biting people on the ass.

The same really doesn't apply to you. You not only sound extremely sincere, and your story is interesting, but, importantly, your status as White or Asian would not confer an advantage to you in admissions one way or the other, so your motives in exploring the topic or checking one box or two would not be questioned.

Our valiant Knight, with hand on pen
Who’s never been a URM
But certainly seems passionate
When lecturing others on it

Beneath the guise of sound advice
Tells potato to roll the dice
Without marking that small check-box
That of being hispanic talks

But lo! Look up! Let’s see who nears—
A rouge Hispanic now appears!
I cannot let this thread go forth
Without my thoughts, for what they’re worth

As stated elsewhere in this thread
Which I suspect you haven’t read
Both heritage, and family
Can define an ethnicity

OP has clearly both the root
And service work, and language, shoot!
So what I REALLY want to know
Is why, despite this, you say NO?

O wise old Knight, I do not buy
Your claim that it will seem a lie
For, in their essays’ explanations
They’ll have full truthful indications

Rather, this knight resents, forlorn
An advantage he deems inborn
For then HE cannot have it! Fie!
“It’s just not fair!” is his loud cry

Well, friend, I’ll heed your whining tongue
When YOU learn Spanish, help the young,
And still don’t get in anyplace
Then, maybe, I’d have facts to face

Jealous, art thou, O little knight?
Or scared of the upcoming fight?
Afraid URMs will compete
And steal your rightful med school seat?
On that, you need not be dejected
THAT won’t be why you get rejected

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Like it or not, the well has been poisoned for OP by unethical premeds.

I'm remind of an SDNer who discovered NA ancestry at the last minute. He had 19 IIs and 18 rejections. Outright and immediate rejections.


The only accept came from his state school, which he most likely got not for being NA, but not being a resident.

Are these unethical folks checking multiple boxes though (white + NA, etc), or identifying as exclusively NA (or mexican, in OPs case) and writing diversity essays about it? the latter would obviously be the wrong choice, but if someone truly identifies with multiple ethnic origins, then it's not unethical to indicate that. The ethnicity question is not asking whether you consider yourself to be URM or disadvantaged. In fact, many hispanic folks consider themselves white, particularly if ancestry traces back to spain rather than indigenous origin.

NA ancestry is also more complicated, because of historical context like the blood quantum system (basically the opposite of the one drop rule). Plus commercial DNA tests are notoriously flawed when it comes to identifying NA origin.

It's also important to note that OP is talking about a biological parent. not some distant great great great grandparent discovered through a DNA test, which i would agree is unethical. I don't go around telling people that I'm Swiss, for example, even though I've got a swiss ancestor quite a way back, because it doesn't play an important role in my family story and my own self identify.

the importance of individual components of mixed ethnicity is going to be unique to the individual, and blanket statements of "don't mark it unless you speak the language/look it/can show service" don't help anyone.

 

[potatopotaaaato]

Hi All - thanks for giving me a lot to think about. I did not think that I would get so crucified for this, but it has really made clear how much misinformation and misunderstanding there is about adoption. I've never met someone before who implied that I or any other adoptee was researching their bio parents for personal gain. That read as pretty crass to me personally.

In terms of census reporting - I currently fill my race as white and mark that I am of hispanic origin on documents, medical forms, etc.and plan on doing so in the future.

My main question was on the correct way to write about the experience of learning about my biological fathers cultural background in a genuine way on the diversity essay. I think I've gotten some good feedback on this. Thanks and best of luck to all with their applications.

 

[KnightDoc]

Our valiant Knight, with hand on pen
Who’s never been a URM
But certainly seems passionate
When lecturing others on it

Beneath the guise of sound advice
Tells potato to roll the dice
Without marking that small check-box
That of being hispanic talks

But lo! Look up! Let’s see who nears—
A rouge Hispanic now appears!
I cannot let this thread go forth
Without my thoughts, for what they’re worth

As stated elsewhere in this thread
Which I suspect you haven’t read
Both heritage, and family
Can define an ethnicity

OP has clearly both the root
And service work, and language, shoot!
So what I REALLY want to know
Is why, despite this, you say NO?

O wise old Knight, I do not buy
Your claim that it will seem a lie
For, in their essays’ explanations
They’ll have full truthful indications

Rather, this knight resents, forlorn
An advantage he deems inborn
For then HE cannot have it! Fie!
“It’s just not fair!” is his loud cry

Well, friend, I’ll heed your whining tongue
When YOU learn Spanish, help the young,
And still don’t get in anyplace
Then, maybe, I’d have facts to face

Jealous, art thou, O little knight?
Or scared of the upcoming fight?
Afraid URMs will compete
And steal your rightful med school seat?
On that, you need not be dejected
THAT won’t be why you get rejected

I am beyond flattered that you have deemed me worthy of the time, attention and effort to craft such beautiful prose in my honor and in response to my posts, but, if your reading ability matched the quality of your writing, you would have realized I am not worthy of this much attention.

As I wrote in my first post above, "I do understand the desire and need to make accommodations for applicants who did not have access to all of the resources I had to this point." I am pretty socially liberal, and very supportive of efforts to level the playing field by creating opportunities for those who have not had access to the resources and privileges I have had to date. Absolutely no jealousy; absolutely no resentment, although I did note in another thread in response to a suggestion that med schools should match their demographics to that of the communities they are located in that that could very well have unintended adverse consequences for certain schools, and that quotas are very rarely a good idea.

You are 1,000% correct. I am not an URM, I am not entitled to any "boost" or preference, and my application will rise and fall based on my stats, my story and my ECs. Any preference OP receives from checking a box will come at the expense of another URM, perhaps one from a low SES background who truly needs it (maybe even someone you know or care about), but certainly won't impact my application one way or the other.

I was just adding my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth. Apparently very little. Maybe OP should also ignore @Goro, who advised the well is already poisoned by the gamers who preceded him, and checking the box is more likely to bite him in the ass than help him. But what does he know? He's probably not Hispanic either! Maybe you'll want to get to work on a sonnet for him now!!!

Either way, thanks for the shout out -- I REALLY am flattered, and wish I had the talent to compose prose like that!!!

 

[potatopotaaaato]

You are 1,000% correct. I am not an URM, I am not entitled to any "boost" or preference, and my application will rise and fall based on my stats, my story and my ECs. Any preference OP receives from checking a box will come at the expense of another URM, perhaps one from a low SES background who truly needs it (maybe even someone you know or care about), but certainly won't impact my application one way or the other.

I was just adding my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth. Apparently very little. Maybe OP should also ignore @Goro, who advised the well is already poisoned by the gamers who preceded him, and checking the box is more likely to bite him in the ass than help him. But what does he know? He's probably not Hispanic either! Maybe you'll want to get to work on a sonnet for him now!!!

Oh Knight great protector of the low SES URM applicants, rest assured I do not think any adcom will consider me a URM even with my magical hispanic checkbox. I'm the child of a physician and a stay at home parent and I attended a fancy prep school and private college. I would hope that adcoms have enough sense to understand the nuances that come with trans-racial adoption, even though it seems like many others here don't

 

[KnightDoc]

Oh Knight great protector of the low SES URM applicants, rest assured I do not think any adcom will consider me a URM even with my magical hispanic checkbox. I'm the child of a physician and a stay at home parent and I attended a fancy prep school and private college. I would hope that adcoms have enough sense to understand the nuances that come with trans-racial adoption, even though it seems like many others here don't

Then, with all due respect, why start the thread? You know your story, you know what boxes you're checking, and you know how good your experiences are going to look AND that you are not going to receive a preference regardless of what box you check. Exactly what advice were you looking for? Whether or not it's okay to tell your story?

You answered you own original question -- it would be disingenuous to talk about your recently discovered biological father in a diversity essay, which, whether you do it or not, will not give your app a "boost" due to everything else you just revealed. Moreover, you can certainly share you story if you think it enhances your application without framing it as a diversity essay, and you know this!!!

And, by the way, I was trying to prevent you from biting yourself in the butt -- you are the one who posted. I'll trust the adcoms to do what they think is right for the low SES URMs!!!

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

You answered you own original question -- it would be disingenuous to talk about your recently discovered biological father in a diversity essay, which, whether you do it or not, will not give your app a "boost" due to everything else you just revealed. Moreover, you can certainly share you story if you think it enhances your application without framing it as a diversity essay, and you know this!!!

It's already been said but diversity essays do NOT need to be about race. It would not be disingenuous for OP to discuss adoption, and their process of learning more about their biological parents/their cultures, so long as it's not framed as "I'm diverse because I'm mexican". I think OP understands that.

There's separate questions about disadvantages such as SES on the application for a reason. not all URMs are low SES, just as not all ORMs are high SES. This isn't a zero sum game. the world is complicated and nuanced, and I get the feeling that OP has a pretty good sense of where they fit into that nuance, and wanted advice on how to discuss their experiences in a thoughtful manner. unfortunately we led this thread down a rabbit hole in another direction (and I acknowledge my complicity in that)

 

[KnightDoc]

It's already been said but diversity essays do NOT need to be about race. It would not be disingenuous for OP to discuss adoption, and their process of learning more about their biological parents/their cultures, so long as it's not framed as "I'm diverse because I'm mexican". I think OP understands that.

There's separate questions about disadvantages such as SES on the application for a reason. not all URMs are low SES, just as not all ORMs are high SES. This isn't a zero sum game. the world is complicated and nuanced, and I get the feeling that OP has a pretty good sense of where they fit into that nuance, and wanted advice on how to discuss their experiences in a thoughtful manner. unfortunately we led this thread down a rabbit hole in another direction (and I acknowledge my complicity in that)

I think we all understand it now, and you are correct. To me, though, it sounds more like an essay than a diversity essay. I mean, after all, isn't the point to evidence the unique contribution each of us would make to a class?

Hopefully, this is winding down now, although anyone else moved to compose poetry in my honor is more than welcome to do so!!!

 

[deleted972488]

I think we all understand it now, and you are correct. To me, though, it sounds more like an essay than a diversity essay. I mean, after all, isn't the point to evidence the unique contribution each of us would make to a class?

Hopefully, this is winding down now, although anyone else moved to compose poetry in my honor is more than welcome to do so!!!

Diversity essays are often required on secondary applications. What do you suggest OP does in this scenario?

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I think we all understand it now, and you are correct. To me, though, it sounds more like an essay than a diversity essay. I mean, after all, isn't the point to evidence the unique contribution each of us would make to a class?

Hopefully, this is winding down now, although anyone else moved to compose poetry in my honor is more than welcome to do so!!!

Since I'm not adopted I'm sure i'll miss some of the many unique contributions an adopted person could bring to a class/medical career, but here's a few off the top of my head

- an interesting perspective on identity/ethnicity, exactly as we've discussed in this thread
- stories of self reflection and a journey to discovering or navigating their aforementioned identity
- a unique understanding of the needs of adopted patients, who may not have any knowledge of family medical history, etc
- a unique understanding of the different ways families can be formed (biological families, adopted families, chosen families, blended families...)

 

[KnightDoc]

Diversity essays are often required on secondary applications. What do you suggest OP does in this scenario?

Of course he should talk about his background, journey and experience. He's fine, as long as it doesn't look like he's trying to game anything. I think, based on what he said about his background, box checking and census reporting that he has absolutely nothing to worry about. In fact, it seems so obvious now that he has posted the additional detail that I am wondering why he felt the need to start the thread in the first place. We all got wound up for nothing. OP is fine!!!

But, even high SES White people have to write something. So, again, whether you call it a diversity essay or not, you do have to somehow convey how you are going to make a unique contribution to the class, don't you?