EX-AOA programs after the merger

[radkat101]

Hey everyone,

Before the merger I remember everyone on SDN debating whether such a move by the AOA would ultimately benefit or harm DO students in the match, and whether those PDs will still show a preference for DO students. Now that a large number of these programs have transitioned, I was wondering what the intern classes in your area are looking like with the number of DO students still matching into these programs. It's a little concerning where I am as our IM program went from 10 DOs last year to 6MD/4DO this year. These MD students are mostly from MD schools in the state and 1 matched from the Caribbean. Another prior AOA program nearby went 50/50 MD/DO. For students that just matched into a ex-AOA program, what is your intern class looking like?

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[Meekor]

Hey everyone,

Before the merger I remember everyone on SDN debating whether such a move by the AOA would ultimately benefit or harm DO students in the match, and whether those PDs will still show a preference for DO students. Now that a large number of these programs have transitioned, I was wondering what the intern classes in your area are looking like with the number of DO students still matching into these programs. It's a little concerning where I am as our IM program went from 10 DOs last year to 6MD/4DO this year. These MD students are mostly from MD schools in the state and 1 matched from the Caribbean. Another prior AOA program nearby went 50/50 MD/DO. For students that just matched into a ex-AOA program, what is your intern class looking like?

Program dependent, the IM program at the hospital I matched at got accreditation and was former AOA. Their incoming class is 1DO/9FMGs. Granted it’s not a top tier program or desirable really from what I’ve heard in IM circles

 

[radkat101]

Program dependent, the IM program at the hospital I matched at got accreditation and was former AOA. Their incoming class is 1DO/9FMGs. Granted it’s not a top tier program or desirable really from what I’ve heard in IM circles

The programs near me aren't desirable either so I guess it could just be inferred that not many DOs wanted to go them but the AOA match data this year is a little ominous in that despite so many programs transitioning, the ACGME match rate for DOs only went up 9 percentage points from last year. I could be wrong and this is about the increase that would be expected relative to the number of programs that transitioned. I also don't know how many AOA spots typically remain open after the match for scramble but they are pretty much entirely filled this year.

 

[Meekor]

The programs near me aren't desirable either so I guess it could just be inferred that not many DOs wanted to go them but the AOA match data this year is a little ominous in that despite so many programs transitioning, the ACGME match rate for DOs only went up 9 percentage points from last year. I could be wrong and this is about the increase that would be expected relative to the number of programs that transitioned. I also don't know how many AOA spots typically remain open after the match for scramble but they are pretty much entirely filled this year.

There were more than I thought there would be, and some in competitive specialties this year too. Most of the spot were in less desirable locations in the country, but there were decent amount of spots left. 65% went ACGME as opposed to 50/50 in my class, but we had from what I heard around 5-10% of people who needed to SOAP/scramble still. Granted if you really needed a spot there were still positions open in the AOA to scramble into, however whether or not that was in line with your future goals is up in the air depending on how accreditation goes. This is especially important next year as most programs should be accredited And programs still in the AOA maybe the weaker of the bunch.

 

[Aslanim]

The programs near me aren't desirable either so I guess it could just be inferred that not many DOs wanted to go them but the AOA match data this year is a little ominous in that despite so many programs transitioning, the ACGME match rate for DOs only went up 9 percentage points from last year. I could be wrong and this is about the increase that would be expected relative to the number of programs that transitioned. I also don't know how many AOA spots typically remain open after the match for scramble but they are pretty much entirely filled this year.

The bolded is incorrect. The ACGME match rate for DOs this year was 81%, the same exact percentage it was last year. Interestingly however, the match rate for US IMG's increased from 53% to 57%, while the US MD match rate stayed the same.

 

[radkat101]

The bolded is incorrect. The ACGME match rate for DOs this year was 81%, the same exact percentage it was last year. Interestingly however, the match rate for US IMG's increased from 53% to 57%, while the US MD match rate stayed the same.

That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m referring the percentage of students from each class that matched into an AOA program vs the percent that matched ACGME. This number should be going DOWN in proportion to the number of programs that have transitioned to the ACGME. A rising match rate for IMGs is also ominous when you pair that with the fact that there seem to be a bunch of IMGs matching into the prior AOA programs.

 

[Solodyn]

These are my observations:

1. Foreign IMG/USIMG will occupy some of the ex-DO spots that was previously unfilled after merged to ACGME
2. AOA Programs failed the merger will close
3. All ACGME spots will be occupied by someone (DO/USMD/USIMG/FIMG). No more protected DO spots.
4. With the expansion of the DO schools, there will be a shortage of residency programs in the future.
5. Competitive specialty will be much harder for DO to get into
6. There may come a day when DO students has to drive uber because they cannot get into a residency?

The merger seems like a raw deal for DO students overall. While ALL DO students will get into an ACGME residency, this will be true while supply lasts. And DO students will have to compete to have a spot. Sub-par DOs grads are no longer guarente In a few more years of DO Schools expansion and increase in graduating medical students, the DOs will be in competition with all the USMD/USIMG/FIMG. No more safety net DO unfilled positions.

I think that is why AOA choose to forego the GME residency training accreditation. Since AOA accredited both DO Schools and OGME, the implied contract of AOA providing GME for all the DO School Graduates is in place as long as AOA is the responsible entity for both undergraduate and graduate medical education. The ACGME merger (or take over) allows AOA to be free from the responsibility of providing GME for DO graduates; there are more and more of them every year and OGME cannot keep pace.

So it make logical sense for AOA to send all the DO Graduates to compete with USMD/USIMG/FIMG. Unless a program chooses to apply for Osteopathic Recognition (which requires additional scrutiny and reporting from ACGME), there is really no protected spots anymore for the DO. So welcome to the new normal everyone.

 

[radkat101]

These are my observations:

1. Foreign IMG/USIMG will occupy some of the ex-DO spots that was previously unfilled after merged to ACGME
2. AOA Programs failed the merger will close
3. All ACGME spots will be occupied by someone (DO/USMD/USIMG/FIMG). No more protected DO spots.
4. With the expansion of the DO schools, there will be a shortage of residency programs in the future.
5. Competitive specialty will be much harder for DO to get into
6. There may come a day when DO students has to drive uber because they cannot get into a residency?

The merger seems like a raw deal for DO students overall. While ALL DO students will get into an ACGME residency, this will be true while supply lasts. And DO students will have to compete to have a spot. Sub-par DOs grads are no longer guarente In a few more years of DO Schools expansion and increase in graduating medical students, the DOs will be in competition with all the USMD/USIMG/FIMG. No more safety net DO unfilled positions.

I think that is why AOA choose to forego the GME residency training accreditation. Since AOA accredited both DO Schools and OGME, the implied contract of AOA providing GME for all the DO School Graduates is in place as long as AOA is the responsible entity for both undergraduate and graduate medical education. The ACGME merger (or take over) allows AOA to be free from the responsibility of providing GME for DO graduates; there are more and more of them every year and OGME cannot keep pace.

So it make logical sense for AOA to send all the DO Graduates to compete with USMD/USIMG/FIMG. Unless a program chooses to apply for Osteopathic Recognition (which requires additional scrutiny and reporting from ACGME), there is really no protected spots anymore for the DO. So welcome to the new normal everyone.

I'm sure some will see your perspective as pessimistic, but this is honestly what seems to be happening and this is a really good analysis. I think those speculating that AOA PDs would remain loyal to DO grads is proving (admittedly somewhat anecdotally) to be a false assumption with many of these PDs taking FMG and IMG grads into serious consideration when reviewing apps. I think today's DO applicants, especially those with low stats and attending the newer schools could be in for a rude awakening when this merger is all said and done come 2020 and there's no AOA to fall back on.