ex-Navy and med school

[Troianii]

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Hi there. This is my first post on these forums. I'm a sophomore pre-med student and have been wondering how my military background will affect applications to medical school. How would it be viewed? I've heard a few different things. A Navy friend told me that when he talked to the ship doctor about med school, the doctor said that a med school will look at your 4 years in the Navy like 4 years of volunteer service, and that - for how much it helps you - it'd be equitable to having done 4 years of volunteer work at a hospital. On the other end, I've also been told that it will be viewed as a good EC, which I interpret to mean something along the lines of, "kudos for being part of Russian club."

That's my big question, but I have a few others. How much of an impact does volunteering at a hospital make? If, for example, student 1 had done some volunteer work at a hospital and has a 3.5gpa, and student 2 has done extensive volunteer work in a hospital but has a 3.3gpa. Would these candidates be considered equitable, or would one be more competitive? Like I said, I'm a sophomore, but I'm just trying to get a better idea of how big a difference the volunteering makes.

This one is also a pretty big one that's been bothering me. I've been a legal resident of Maine all my life, but (to my knowledge) Maine only has one medical school, University of New England. It's fortunately my first choice, and (comparatively) easy for a Mainer to get into, but I don't want to be casting my line in hope for just one school. I know that there are half a dozen "in-state" schools for people from CA, TX, MI, NY etc, but with small states that have only one or no medical schools, are there any cases where students are treated as "in-state"? For example, I have heard of a program at Tufts' that is intended to produce doctors to work in Maine. Would that, or any other program outside of Maine, treat Mainers as "in-state" for admission purposes?

I appreciate your responses. I anticipate having decent grades, and expect around a 3.5 or better overall, but don't anticipate my science courses being much better than a 3.0. For obvious reasons, I haven't taken a chem or bio course for six years, and the courses at college are based on the assumption of a basic knowledge/familiarity, which is all old stuff for me. For that reason, I've gotten off to a bit of a rough start my first year back at college, but I am sure I'll be able to pick that up. Which brings me to one final question. If my grades are good overall, but my science scores started low (D+ - B-), and got better, will admissions teams cut slack for the improvement, or will that still hurt me just as much?

thanks again for all your responses. I look forward to being active on this forum and (eventually, Lord willing) becoming a DO.

 

[GunnerBGone]

med school will look at your 4 years in the Navy like 4 years of volunteer service, and that - for how much it helps you - it'd be equitable to having done 4 years of volunteer work at a hospital..

No

I've also been told that it will be viewed as a good EC

Yes

How much of an impact does volunteering at a hospital make?

Read the forums!

If, for example, student 1 [blah blah blah], and student 2 [blah blah blah]. Would these candidates be considered equitable, or would one be more competitive?

What do you think?
Also, READ THE FORUM! The question's been covered 8 gajillion times.

Would any other program outside of Maine, treat Mainers as "in-state" for admission purposes?

Don't know if serious.

expect around a 3.5 or better overall, but don't anticipate my science courses being much better than a 3.0. Blah blah blah...out of school for 6 whole years...blah blah blah

Excuses.
Stop it.

I haven't taken a chem or bio course for six years, and the courses at college are based on the assumption of a basic knowledge/familiarity, For that reason, I've gotten off to a bit of a rough start my first year back at college, but I am sure I'll be able to pick that up.

More excuses and shifting blame.
No, you won't pick it up with that attitude. And I don't want you in class beside me.

If my grades are good overall, but my science scores started low (D+ - B-), and got better, will admissions teams cut me some slack

If you start getting A's...maybe.



Surprise...you're not the only veteran applying.

 

[ShabNasty]

Hi there. This is my first post on these forums. I'm a sophomore pre-med student and have been wondering how my military background will affect applications to medical school. How would it be viewed? I've heard a few different things. A Navy friend told me that when he talked to the ship doctor about med school, the doctor said that a med school will look at your 4 years in the Navy like 4 years of volunteer service, and that - for how much it helps you - it'd be equitable to having done 4 years of volunteer work at a hospital. On the other end, I've also been told that it will be viewed as a good EC, which I interpret to mean something along the lines of, "kudos for being part of Russian club."

That's my big question, but I have a few others. How much of an impact does volunteering at a hospital make? If, for example, student 1 had done some volunteer work at a hospital and has a 3.5gpa, and student 2 has done extensive volunteer work in a hospital but has a 3.3gpa. Would these candidates be considered equitable, or would one be more competitive? Like I said, I'm a sophomore, but I'm just trying to get a better idea of how big a difference the volunteering makes.

This one is also a pretty big one that's been bothering me. I've been a legal resident of Maine all my life, but (to my knowledge) Maine only has one medical school, University of New England. It's fortunately my first choice, and (comparatively) easy for a Mainer to get into, but I don't want to be casting my line in hope for just one school. I know that there are half a dozen "in-state" schools for people from CA, TX, MI, NY etc, but with small states that have only one or no medical schools, are there any cases where students are treated as "in-state"? For example, I have heard of a program at Tufts' that is intended to produce doctors to work in Maine. Would that, or any other program outside of Maine, treat Mainers as "in-state" for admission purposes?

I appreciate your responses. I anticipate having decent grades, and expect around a 3.5 or better overall, but don't anticipate my science courses being much better than a 3.0. For obvious reasons, I haven't taken a chem or bio course for six years, and the courses at college are based on the assumption of a basic knowledge/familiarity, which is all old stuff for me. For that reason, I've gotten off to a bit of a rough start my first year back at college, but I am sure I'll be able to pick that up. Which brings me to one final question. If my grades are good overall, but my science scores started low (D+ - B-), and got better, will admissions teams cut slack for the improvement, or will that still hurt me just as much?

thanks again for all your responses. I look forward to being active on this forum and (eventually, Lord willing) becoming a DO.

I got into MSUCOM with a 3.14cGPA, 3.09sGPA, and a 28Q MCAT. I firmly believe my Army service as a Combat Medic is what really lifted my app. I would imagine that most schools will look at it as a "big deal". I think its probably the most interesting EC you could have to separate yourself from a sea of "typical" pre-med ECs. I know it gave me a lot of ammo, no pun intended, to talk about in my primary and secondaries. Play up your military experiences as much as you can I say.

As far as your last question about admissions teams cutting you slack, if you are showing a really great upward trend in grades, it will do wonders to show them that you can handle the work load and you are ready. If you have anything below a C though, I would retake now while you have the time in undergrad. I would also say that if its a pre-req that is C or even C+ should be retaken. Make sure you bust your butt to bring that sGPA up closer to your cGPA. Don't settle for a 3.0. You are a sophomore and have sooooooo much time to make it happen.

Now go do some push-ups.😎

 

[ShabNasty]

GunnerBGone is right about the excuses. Own your mistakes, failures, shortcomings etc... The sooner you do that, the sooner you can get on the right track.

 

[GunnerBGone]

By the way, thank you for using the military as a shield to hide laziness.
It makes us all look great.
Seriously, thanks so much.

 

[ShabNasty]

By the way, thank you for using the military as a shield to hide laziness.
It makes us all look great.
Seriously, thanks so much.

Are you referring to OP or me?

 

[Troianii]

No

Yes

Read the forums!

What do you think?
Also, READ THE FORUM! The question's been covered 8 gajillion times.

Don't know if serious.


Excuses.
Stop it.


More excuses and shifting blame.
No, you won't pick it up with that attitude. And I don't want you in class beside me.



If you start getting A's...maybe.



Surprise...you're not the only veteran applying.

Why'd you bother replying?

I got into MSUCOM with a 3.14cGPA, 3.09sGPA, and a 28Q MCAT. I firmly believe my Army service as a Combat Medic is what really lifted my app. I would imagine that most schools will look at it as a "big deal". I think its probably the most interesting EC you could have to separate yourself from a sea of "typical" pre-med ECs. I know it gave me a lot of ammo, no pun intended, to talk about in my primary and secondaries. Play up your military experiences as much as you can I say.

As far as your last question about admissions teams cutting you slack, if you are showing a really great upward trend in grades, it will do wonders to show them that you can handle the work load and you are ready. If you have anything below a C though, I would retake now while you have the time in undergrad. I would also say that if its a pre-req that is C or even C+ should be retaken. Make sure you bust your butt to bring that sGPA up closer to your cGPA. Don't settle for a 3.0. You are a sophomore and have sooooooo much time to make it happen.

Now go do some push-ups.😎

Thanks for the response, that was very helpful. From most of my readings, I'd gathered that GPAs in the range you had were no-gos for all, so that's very encouraging and appreciated. I'm just a month in with one course going badly and, as you say, I have sooooo much time.

GunnerBGone is right about the excuses. Own your mistakes, failures, shortcomings etc... The sooner you do that, the sooner you can get on the right track.

Yeah, I get it, but that was actually what I was doing. I simply stated why I'm having a rough start in one course. It's not as if I'm acing every other course because I'm a lazy ****bag.

 

[felix2929]

I can't say how your service would be viewed but I can only imagine that it will help to bolster your application. I don't think it will excuse bad grades per say but if you have a mid 3s gpa and decent mcat i think you'd get in. (since i did without something as substanitive as the military) I know my friend from Alaska was given preferential treatment when applying to U. of Washington since Alaska has no in state school and was allowed to pay in-state tuition. I'm not sure if Maine has this arrangement with any neighboring states but it is certainly possible. Also there is now the Maine Track at Tufts which gives preferential admission to Maine residents so I'd look into that too. Good luck!

 

[Troianii]

I can't say how your service would be viewed but I can only imagine that it will help to bolster your application. I don't think it will excuse bad grades per say but if you have a mid 3s gpa and decent mcat i think you'd get in. (since i did without something as substanitive as the military) I know my friend from Alaska was given preferential treatment when applying to U. of Washington since Alaska has no in state school and was allowed to pay in-state tuition. I'm not sure if Maine has this arrangement with any neighboring states but it is certainly possible. Also there is now the Maine Track at Tufts which gives preferential admission to Maine residents so I'd look into that too. Good luck!

Thanks for the response. I'm really just concerned about a bad grade that I'll probably retake (sadly).

I wasn't even thinking of that. I know that in New England there's this weird thing called the NERSP. It's pretty much the middle of in-state and out-state tuition rates for New England students, but it's limited to programs not offered within their state, so I doubt that would work.

I have heard, though, of the Maine Track at Tufts and I'll definitely be applying there when the time comes. I just didn't know if that was an anomaly or if there were more cases like that.

Thanks for the informative response!

 

[Goro]

Military service is admirable but in no way does it the same as a clinical EC. We need to know that you want to spend your career taking care of sick and injured people.

Would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit without trying it on??

We have wait-listed otherwise qualified people for having too little patient contact experience, and rejected those who have none.

Private medical schools as a rule do not discriminate against out-of-staters, while state schools prefer in-staters, or those from neighboring states. Again, this is a rule of thumb.

Upward trends in GPAs are always viewed favorably.

A Navy friend told me that when he talked to the ship doctor about med school, the doctor said that a med school will look at your 4 years in the Navy like 4 years of volunteer service, and that - for how much it helps you - it'd be equitable to having done 4 years of volunteer work at a hospital. On the other end, I've also been told that it will be viewed as a good EC, which I interpret to mean something along the lines of, "kudos for being part of Russian club."

That's my big question, but I have a few others. How much of an impact does volunteering at a hospital make? If, for example, student 1 had done some volunteer work at a hospital and has a 3.5gpa, and student 2 has done extensive volunteer work in a hospital but has a 3.3gpa. Would these candidates be considered equitable, or would one be more competitive? Like I said, I'm a sophomore, but I'm just trying to get a better idea of how big a difference the volunteering makes.

This one is also a pretty big one that's been bothering me. I've been a legal resident of Maine all my life, but (to my knowledge) Maine only has one medical school, University of New England. It's fortunately my first choice, and (comparatively) easy for a Mainer to get into, but I don't want to be casting my line in hope for just one school. I know that there are half a dozen "in-state" schools for people from CA, TX, MI, NY etc, but with small states that have only one or no medical schools, are there any cases where students are treated as "in-state"? For example, I have heard of a program at Tufts' that is intended to produce doctors to work in Maine. Would that, or any other program outside of Maine, treat Mainers as "in-state" for admission purposes?

I appreciate your responses. I anticipate having decent grades, and expect around a 3.5 or better overall, but don't anticipate my science courses being much better than a 3.0. For obvious reasons, I haven't taken a chem or bio course for six years, and the courses at college are based on the assumption of a basic knowledge/familiarity, which is all old stuff for me. For that reason, I've gotten off to a bit of a rough start my first year back at college, but I am sure I'll be able to pick that up. Which brings me to one final question. If my grades are good overall, but my science scores started low (D+ - B-), and got better, will admissions teams cut slack for the improvement, or will that still hurt me just as much?

thanks again for all your responses. I look forward to being active on this forum and (eventually, Lord willing) becoming a DO.

 

[GunnerBGone]

It's not as if I'm acing every other course because I'm a lazy ****bag.

Prove it.

You're a sophmore. Taking the easiest classes of your academic career.

soph·o·mor·ic
[ sòffə máwrik ]

1. immature: showing the naive lack of judgement that accompanies immaturity

Why did I bother replying?
Because you're not really here to ask for help. You're here to ask if military experience will cover up a sub-par GPA, and keep you from putting time into clinical experience. All the other stuff you wrote is just fluff --the answers are all covered frequently on the forum. You're here looking for the easy out. It's in every paragraph you've written.
You could have asked your advisor, or pre-med counselor, or called one of the schools. But, you didn't do that. You asked on here, because you thought no one would notice. Because we have no impact on your grades or reputation. And because you're not within arms reach.
If you're capable enough to go to undergrad classes while some of us are re-learning how to walk...and smart enough, while some of us are missing brain matter...THEN YOU DO NOT GET TO COMPLAIN WHILE CALLING YOURSELF A VETERAN.

So, sit in class. Study. Get better grades. And be grateful for what you CAN do.
Before somebody shoves a prosthetic leg up your @ss.

 

[dudeliness]

I'll agree with the illustrious shabnasty here. Military service is a good thing, doing well in your classes is a good thing, applying broadly is a good thing. A pre-med advisor could possibly tell you better than us if there are any other schools that look favorably on Maine residents. I think most of us here have no idea.
I think the issue of your grades/classes has been thoroughly covered here, with varying degrees of straightforwardness. 😉 think of it like this, med school classes will be a bajillion times harder than ANY undergrad class you'll be taking. Figure out how to discipline yourself and how to study so that you can excel in your undergrad classes. It will help prepare you for what's to come when you matriculate somewhere.
I think that everyone is unique enough to be interesting to an admissions committee, you just need to find your "brand" and sell yourself. What I mean is, the military thing can be a big advantage to you in your application if its something really meaningful to you and you can tie it into why you want to be a doctor.
Lastly, don't count on any one area of your application to make up for a failing somewhere else. You said yourself you have time, so use it wisely! Volunteer in a hospital. Shadow a bunch of docs. Do great in your classes. Don't expect a stellar MCAT to make up your GPA (although it can help) and don't expect EC's to make up for a lame MCAT (although it can help) and don't expect...I think you get the point. Good luck and work hard. You'll do fine.

 

[Troianii]

Military service is admirable but in no way does it the same as a clinical EC. We need to know that you want to spend your career taking care of sick and injured people.

Would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit without trying it on??

We have wait-listed otherwise qualified people for having too little patient contact experience, and rejected those who have none.

Private medical schools as a rule do not discriminate against out-of-staters, while state schools prefer in-staters, or those from neighboring states. Again, this is a rule of thumb.

Upward trends in GPAs are always viewed favorably.

I didn't think either of the extremes given to me were accurate. Thanks for the informative response.

Prove it.

You're a sophmore. Taking the easiest classes of your academic career.

soph·o·mor·ic
[ sòffə máwrik ]
http://www.bing.com/caption/image/?bid=DVAxVkQas0ibtg&bn=EDPG&FORM=DTPDIA

1. immature: showing the naive lack of judgement that accompanies immaturity

Why did I bother replying?
Because you're not really here to ask for help. You're here to ask if military experience will cover up a sub-par GPA, and keep you from putting time into clinical experience. All the other stuff you wrote is just fluff --the answers are all covered frequently on the forum. You're here looking for the easy out. It's in every paragraph you've written.
You could have asked your advisor, or pre-med counselor, or called one of the schools. But, you didn't do that. You asked on here, because you thought no one would notice. Because we have no impact on your grades or reputation. And because you're not within arms reach.
If you're capable enough to go to undergrad classes while some of us are re-learning how to walk...and smart enough, while some of us are missing brain matter...THEN YOU DO NOT GET TO COMPLAIN WHILE CALLING YOURSELF A VETERAN.

So, sit in class. Study. Get better grades. And be grateful for what you CAN do.
Before somebody shoves a prosthetic leg up your @ss.

Oh. You're one of those vets. Listen, you can infer whatever you want, but nothing you've said was stated, nor implied in what I said. Calm down and take it for what it is, or leave it. I only recently decided to pursue a career in medicine, and would like to better understand how an ADCOM would view these things. A majority of pre-med students don't even get a single acceptance letter, so yeah, I am concerned about my prospects. Now, as I said, calm down and take it for what it is, or leave it. I'm sure you really do have some actual input of value, but if all you've got to offer is - pardon me - sophmoric aspersion and calumny, then keep it to yourself.

 

[Troianii]

I'll agree with the illustrious shabnasty here. Military service is a good thing, doing well in your classes is a good thing, applying broadly is a good thing. A pre-med advisor could possibly tell you better than us if there are any other schools that look favorably on Maine residents. I think most of us here have no idea.
I think the issue of your grades/classes has been thoroughly covered here, with varying degrees of straightforwardness. 😉 think of it like this, med school classes will be a bajillion times harder than ANY undergrad class you'll be taking. Figure out how to discipline yourself and how to study so that you can excel in your undergrad classes. It will help prepare you for what's to come when you matriculate somewhere.
I think that everyone is unique enough to be interesting to an admissions committee, you just need to find your "brand" and sell yourself. What I mean is, the military thing can be a big advantage to you in your application if its something really meaningful to you and you can tie it into why you want to be a doctor.
Lastly, don't count on any one area of your application to make up for a failing somewhere else. You said yourself you have time, so use it wisely! Volunteer in a hospital. Shadow a bunch of docs. Do great in your classes. Don't expect a stellar MCAT to make up your GPA (although it can help) and don't expect EC's to make up for a lame MCAT (although it can help) and don't expect...I think you get the point. Good luck and work hard. You'll do fine.

Thanks for the response. It was helpful. I get the point. 😉 Anything seriously subpar can't be compensated. With over half of applicants not getting accepted into a single medical school, I figured it was that competitive.

Unfortunately I'm going to a school in MN that doesn't even have a pre-med advisor, so I figured it was worth a shot to see if anyone knew of anything regarding a program like Tufts. Couldn't hurt.

Thanks again for the response.

 

[dudeliness]

Thanks for the response. It was helpful. I get the point. 😉 Anything seriously subpar can't be compensated. With over half of applicants not getting accepted into a single medical school, I figured it was that competitive.

Unfortunately I'm going to a school in MN that doesn't even have a pre-med advisor, so I figured it was worth a shot to see if anyone knew of anything regarding a program like Tufts. Couldn't hurt.

Thanks again for the response.

Is there another college/university in Maine that has a pre-med advisor? Might be worth checking to see, and if its a state school, they could probably advise you even if you're not from that school. It would at least be worth trying.

 

[Troianii]

Is there another college/university in Maine that has a pre-med advisor? Might be worth checking to see, and if its a state school, they could probably advise you even if you're not from that school. It would at least be worth trying.

huh. Yeah it would definitely be worth a try... Now I feel kinda stupid and, you know, sophomoric. 😉

 

[Eiot]

No

Yes

Read the forums!

What do you think?
Also, READ THE FORUM! The question's been covered 8 gajillion times.

Don't know if serious.


Excuses.
Stop it.


More excuses and shifting blame.
No, you won't pick it up with that attitude. And I don't want you in class beside me.



If you start getting A's...maybe.



Surprise...you're not the only veteran applying.

This isn't Leatherneck.com. Perhaps this is part of the reason you've been rejected from certain schools. You'll find sooner or later that your overly moto attitude doesn't work in society and is in fact quite counterproductive. I figured you would know that after the plethora of reintegration classes you've been required to take. Either way, taking every rejection personally will only hurt you more. Best of luck.

 

[Troianii]

This isn't Leatherneck.com. Perhaps this is part of the reason you've been rejected from certain schools. You'll find sooner or later that your overly moto attitude doesn't work in society and is in fact quite counterproductive. I figured you would know that after the plethora of reintegration classes you've been required to take. Either way, taking every rejection personally will only hurt you more. Best of luck.

Just for a record, this guy is an anomaly on this forum, right?

 

[Eiot]

Just for a record, this guy is an anomaly on this forum, right?

Yes, most veterans are relaxed and helpful.

 

[mfrizzo3]

Just for a record, this guy is an anomaly on this forum, right?

Yes. I'm sure everyone reading can understand why Mr. Clean hasn't been accepted.

 

[zipnogg]

there are some real uptight people on this forum. haha

to the OP: good luck with everything mate

 

[GunnerBGone]

Actually, uh, New England loved me.
You're from Maine, right? That's where you're trying to get in? Very pretty place, when the bay freezes over. I love the wind turbine.

Say what you want. You're the one with bad grades, asking for advice. This is the advice that Vietnam vets told me, practicing physicians.
Some of us were not given re-integration counseling. It didn't exist. It's available to you now, because guys like myself made a big deal out of it. I'm glad it worked out for you. You're welcome.
Think you're having a hard time without a pre-med advisor?

I've mentored a university's worth of veterans. Member of committees at two universities, helping new miltary students.
Without fail, the ones that struggle in classes say the same exact thing. "Its too hard. I haven't been in school for so long." Always the same excuse. I've spent entire semesters helping them study, listening to them on the phone, tutoring, being nice and friendly. Functionally, just the same as enabling an alcoholic. In the end, the only working motivator is being uptight and throwing your military pride back at your ego.
It's a proven, studied technique, taught in leadership academies around the country. Possibly the reason you left the military, but find yourself struggling without guidance. Nothing personal, just probability.
For what it's worth, I'd love for you to prove it wrong. I liked you, for getting this far.
My apologies if you still can't accept criticism. I don't really like giving it.

Let me know which approach you remember, when you're studying for finals.
I'll adjust accordingly.






This thread has had 430 views, so far.
That's quite a few nice, quiet, hard working students watching you feed the stereotype of a military status covering up bad grades.
Possibly, you don't realize it. Maybe no one's told you, yet. Maybe you don't know how you sound, or don't care.
But, do you honestly think they're reading because they care about your D in college algebra? And none of it is interelated?

 

[411309]

Actually, uh, New England loved me.
You're from Maine, right? That's where you're trying to get in? Very pretty place, when the bay freezes over. I love the wind turbine.

Say what you want. You're the one with bad grades, asking for advice. This is the advice that Vietnam vets told me, practicing physicians.
Some of us were not given re-integration counseling. It didn't exist. It's available to you now, because guys like myself made a big deal out of it. I'm glad it worked out for you. You're welcome.
Think you're having a hard time without a pre-med advisor?

I've mentored a university's worth of veterans. Member of committees at two universities, helping new miltary students.
Without fail, the ones that struggle in classes say the same exact thing. "Its too hard. I haven't been in school for so long." Always the same excuse. I've spent entire semesters helping them study, listening to them on the phone, tutoring, being nice and friendly. Functionally, just the same as enabling an alcoholic. In the end, the only working motivator is being uptight and throwing your military pride back at your ego.
It's a proven, studied technique, taught in leadership academies around the country. Possibly the reason you left the military, but find yourself struggling without guidance. Nothing personal, just probability.
For what it's worth, I'd love for you to prove it wrong. I liked you, for getting this far.
My apologies if you still can't accept criticism. I don't really like giving it.

Let me know which approach you remember, when you're studying for finals.
I'll adjust accordingly.






This thread has had 430 views, so far.
That's quite a few nice, quiet, hard working students watching you feed the stereotype of a military status covering up bad grades.
Possibly, you don't realize it. Maybe no one's told you, yet. Maybe you don't know how you sound, or don't care.
But, do you honestly think they're reading because they care about your D in college algebra? And none of it is interelated?

I hope I never become as cynical as you.

 

[Troianii]

Yes. I'm sure everyone reading can understand why Mr. Clean hasn't been accepted.

it's funny how many people have come to the same conclusion independently.

there are some real uptight people on this forum. haha

to the OP: good luck with everything mate

haha, thanks for the well wishes.

Actually, uh, New England loved me.
You're from Maine, right? That's where you're trying to get in? Very pretty place, when the bay freezes over. I love the wind turbine.

Say what you want. You're the one with bad grades, asking for advice. This is the advice that Vietnam vets told me, practicing physicians.
Some of us were not given re-integration counseling. It didn't exist. It's available to you now, because guys like myself made a big deal out of it. I'm glad it worked out for you. You're welcome.
Think you're having a hard time without a pre-med advisor?

I've mentored a university's worth of veterans. Member of committees at two universities, helping new miltary students.
Without fail, the ones that struggle in classes say the same exact thing. "Its too hard. I haven't been in school for so long." Always the same excuse. I've spent entire semesters helping them study, listening to them on the phone, tutoring, being nice and friendly. Functionally, just the same as enabling an alcoholic. In the end, the only working motivator is being uptight and throwing your military pride back at your ego.
It's a proven, studied technique, taught in leadership academies around the country. Possibly the reason you left the military, but find yourself struggling without guidance. Nothing personal, just probability.
For what it's worth, I'd love for you to prove it wrong. I liked you, for getting this far.
My apologies if you still can't accept criticism. I don't really like giving it.

Let me know which approach you remember, when you're studying for finals.
I'll adjust accordingly.






This thread has had 430 views, so far.
That's quite a few nice, quiet, hard working students watching you feed the stereotype of a military status covering up bad grades.
Possibly, you don't realize it. Maybe no one's told you, yet. Maybe you don't know how you sound, or don't care.
But, do you honestly think they're reading because they care about your D in college algebra? And none of it is interelated?

yep. I actually grew up across the river. Since you've been there, I assume you know what I'm talking about.

And, as I said, you can infer whatever you want, but that will not change what was said nor implied. I've referred to an anomaly here. There's no need for me to be concerned about every other course, in which I have excelled. Simply stating, or attempting to understand the causes/reasons for an event, is not an excuse. If you understood why so many interviews went badly for you, your ability to understand and articulate your shortcomings or weaknesses would be a strength, not a pathetic excuse for laziness. To see it that way isn't cynical, it's just plain stupid.

I may only be a sophomore, but I can tell you that such a cynical crab is or will become a recluse. I can only imagine what a great doctor such a person would be.

 

[GunnerBGone]

Come talk to me when you've seen a few people die.

Ad hominem attack me all you want. Doesn't change the fact that you suddenly found all sorts of reasons to study harder.

 

[Troianii]

Come talk to me when you've seen a few people die.

Ad hominem attack me all you want. Doesn't change the fact that you suddenly found all sorts of reasons to study harder.

w/e. no one cares what you have to say, dude.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Come talk to me when you've seen a few people die.

Ad hominem attack me all you want. Doesn't change the fact that you suddenly found all sorts of reasons to study harder.

I've seen people murdered right in front of my face......I don't use it as an excuse to act like an ***hole though. Your not the only one who has been through a river of crap bro. Give the guy a break.

 

[HM3]

Gunner, you're the only one giving Vets a bad name here. Asking people if they've witnessed death? What kind of scumplay is this?

 

[Amk90]

I think Gunner is trying to help the OP...in his own cynical way. From reading his other posts seems like he has an extremely negative persona of ADCOMS because of his application results and he doesn't want the OP to feel the way he did while applying....no reason to be so negative though Gunner 😎

Back on topic, from my own very limited experience I think serving in the military for 4 years is a big advantage...many pre-meds have extremely limited "real world" job experience and serving 4 years in the military definitely shows leadership potential as well as the ability to handle really stressful situations

Who knows how ADCOMS feel though.

Good luck!

 

[GunnerBGone]

I think Gunner is trying to help the OP...in his own cynical way. From reading his other posts seems like he has an extremely negative persona of ADCOMS because of his application results and he doesn't want the OP to feel the way he did while applying....no reason to be so negative though Gunner 😎

Thank you, but he knows. He doesn't want to admit it, because he doesn't like feeling vunerable. Of course, it invites a handful of verbal, trollish individuals itching for an argument. Schadenfreude and all. Hard to tell the difference over the internet, where you can't see facial expressions.

Not necessarily an extremely negative assumption of adcoms...I would say, more like a...cautionary outlook. Seeing hundreds of over-qualified candidates each year, their job is to identify faults. Peer review process helps identify those faults, even if you don't like the criticism.

The difference is: I know my shortcomings, and can openly admit them.
Yes, I'm being cynical. My mentor just died, and I've let it affect my outlook. Trying to pass on one of his lessons, which isnt something people like to listen to (but works)...not very pleasant either. I was hoping this kid would get the message, which would cheer me up immensely. But, I was also taught that people never really listen until you're in a position of clear authority.
For instance: forum trolls.
Helping stubborn kids is really not cheering me up, so I'll leave it to the rest of you. Have fun!

 

[Troianii]

Gunner, you're the only one giving Vets a bad name here. Asking people if they've witnessed death? What kind of scumplay is this?

👍

I think Gunner is trying to help the OP...in his own cynical way. From reading his other posts seems like he has an extremely negative persona of ADCOMS because of his application results and he doesn't want the OP to feel the way he did while applying....no reason to be so negative though Gunner 😎

Back on topic, from my own very limited experience I think serving in the military for 4 years is a big advantage...many pre-meds have extremely limited "real world" job experience and serving 4 years in the military definitely shows leadership potential as well as the ability to handle really stressful situations

Who knows how ADCOMS feel though.

Good luck!

Eh, doubtful. Even a cynic isn't an ******* to be "helpful."

I appreciate you sharing your experience. A friend of mine, a DO and former member of an ADCOM, has told me that a military background makes a big difference for primarily the same reasons you've stated. It shows real-world experience, an ability to handle stress, and (to a degree) selflessness. For anyone who doesn't know, a junior servicemember earns (today) between 18000 and 21000 a year. It was much less when I joined about four years ago. There are few people who would live such a harsh lifestyle for the money, and those who do come from a harsh background that is invariably inspiring.

But I doubt that many ADCOMs are as appreciative of the service as he is. I swear, the guy is a living saint, so he might just be an anomaly.

 

[RomanTaylor]

I like the cut of your jib, Gunner. Sometimes you need to be a dick to get a point across.

I know that there are vets out there that feel like he is something out of Full Metal Jacket, but be honest with yourself; how many vets have we seem do exactly what he is talking about? How many use vet status as a crutch and recuse for poor academic performance? I have personally seen too many, representing the majority of people that leave the service for school.

Sorry to say, but some of us needs a reality check. Don't shoot the messenger for giving it to him straight.

 

[Eiot]

Sorry to say, but some of us needs a reality check. Don't shoot the messenger for giving it to him straight.

There's a difference between "giving it to some straight" and acting like we're all back in Country.

 

[RomanTaylor]

I still maintain that some of us need that. I am personally sick of seeing veterans' college aspirations go "boom" because they think they can coast the status into where ever they are aspiring to.

GPA will always trump vet status. It is meant to be the icing, not the cake.

 

[GunnerBGone]

BTW

in Country.

Wut?
this isnt leatherneck.com, dood

 

[Eiot]

I still maintain that some of us need that. I am personally sick of see veteran college aspirations go "boom" because they think they can coast the status into where ever they are aspiring to.

GPA will always trump vet status. It is meant to be the icing, not the cake.

To preface this, I agree with everything you're saying. The problem is that it near impossible to decipher exactly what someone needs over the internet. Thus, acting brash and out of line is certainly uncalled for. Especially considering what kind of forum we are on. If you're sick of seeing these "veteran college aspirations go 'boom'" then do something about it. Tell them what the reality is and where they are mistaken. However, doing so doesn't warrant a SgtMaj., "you has 'til O'dark hundred to unfuk yourself!" These people seeking counsel obviously aren't recruits anymore, nor should they be treated as such without justification. Adapting to a specific situation is part of any branch's credo, and the situation on SDN is comprised of mild tempered, intelligent discussion.

Wut?
this isnt leatherneck.com, dood

The best part is you were the one talking about internet trolls.

 

[HM3]

Talking to vets like they are still in the service is a sure way to make everyone around you unpleasant (the veteran and nonvet students).


OP, your status is not going to hurt you..unless you somehow manage to make it negative, which is really hard to do by the way. Let's be honest, civilians are blindly respecting to veterans.

 

[RomanTaylor]

Granted, don't mind me, I am still greenside (with the marines). Lol, that is coffee talk for me.

 

[HM3]

How often do you come across veteran students? I'm asking because of your "tired of seeing.." statement. Most of the vets I knew in undergrad were dedicated and never "used" their status. Moto vets seemed to be the unproductive ones, which is the irony in you and Gunner's argument.

 

[RomanTaylor]

As you know, we in the military develop lifelong relationships with our fellow servicemen. Half of my Facebook (which has a substantial amount of people) are both active and separated. The majority of the guys, in my experience, that leave the service for college not only have a hard time adjusting to civilian and academic life, but yes, feel that their employers or schools are not showing their veteran status the reverence it deserves.

And don't get me wrong. I am not saying that EVERYONE that engages in college are not successful. But some just need to be shaken and sternly spoken to in order to get their head out of their ass. Different strokes for different folks.

We would like to believe that our little premed community is elite and wholly civil, but I believe that that image is not bared out in reality. The majority of people pursuing a medical degree fail, and veterans are no different. I want, of course, for all of us to succeed, and if a sharp talking to helps, then I promote the sharp talking to.

 

[HM3]

Yes because status updates on facebook are a good indicator of reality. Also, your analogy of people failing to reach med school is flawed in that veterans are more apt to complete the pre-med track. This "stern" talking to thing seems very ridiculous to me. I would venture to say that in practice it would be met with hostility. Why don't you go out to a college, haze some veterans and report back? No? Just send out a tweet, I'm sure they will straighten right up.

Let me tell you something..there's two types of veterans. Those that use the tools the military has given them and those who the military has used as tools. No one likes the latter.

 

[GunnerBGone]

Guys, it's not all that hard to argue like this over the Internet, but it's really making us all look bad.
I'm an extremely nice person, if you met me. Yes, the OP and others are actually dedicated and ambitious. They have bad days, and might not realize how certain phrases sound, even if its actually very plausible. Six years out of school does have an impact, and most of us have felt it at one point in time.
The words I used aren't exactly my choosing. I don't LIKE to point it out, it just happens to work.

Maybe...and this is a shocker...I said the same thing as the OP, and some "uptight, cynical" guy said the same things to me.
Quite possibly, it's the only thing that kept ME going despite certain difficulties and much longer time away from school. Like I said, there were NO counseling services when I ETS'd. I just happened to run into an old Vietnam vet that challenged me when my friends/family were kissing my butt.

Now, if it doesn't apply to you, that's really good.
It does apply to a lot of people that I've ran into, but I attended a certain school. Our professors were VERY anti-military; our honors director personally called me a "baby-killing Nazi from Auswitz" in front of a 200-people Vet's Day celebration...and nobody said a word. Many of our guys dropped out, and I came really close. Your situation may be different. But, as other people have agreed, the OP WAS giving a lot of excuses. The signs look similar, no matter what school you attend.

Bash me all you want. AFAIK, you may be re-directing your anger at the military toward me, as an easy target.
But consider that I was reminding the OP that he has a strength that other students cannot tap into, when things get hard. Other students haven't been through the things we have. Other students haven't seen smart, friendly, potential scientists...laying in the dirt. Its not cynical to use it to keep you studying when you'd rather take it easy.

You wanna be the cool, chilled-out vet? Sure, so would I. Everybody likes that guy.
I'll buy you beers and listen to you gripe all day long...if you're not getting D's/C's and telling everyone you're pre-med. Remember what we were always told? That everyone is an ambassador?
How can you be proud of your service, if you're showing everyone you're just following a pattern of failure?
Maybe it's me, but everyone in high school thought the ROTCers were the kids too stupid to get a scholarship. If you didn't have it thrown in your face, great for you. But, the stereotype is still there...the war doesn't change it, nor your intentions when you signed up. Unless you hold somebody down by the shoulders and explain all these things, normal people are going to associate these stereotypes. Either you're:
-too stupid (bless his heart, let's not tell him)
-too tired (bless his heart, he's been through too much)
-too old (he was so close to retirement, etc)
-too chill (like the homeless drunks)
-too emotionally damaged (and they just laugh)
-too inflexible (as opposed to their civilian "maturity")
The list goes on.

But, anyway. Disagree with me and try to wreck my reputation, because ADCOMs may be reading. Wouldn't be the first time gunners have used SDN in just that way. Maybe you think that's what I was trying to do, but you'd be incorrect.

Again...notice that the OP is no longer bothering with excuses and tapped back into his leadership ability.
I'd say that's a pretty good outcome.
Thank you for trolling me in return. Handle the next guy by yourselves, and see how long you want to spend listening.
Troll away.

 

[RomanTaylor]

Ah.

Well, there were a lot of assumptions there, which were made, I am sure, out of hostility, so they are forgivable. One, my observations are not made wholly from Facebook status updates; I actually speak to my friends. I am a fairly social individual.

Two, as I said before, different strokes for different folks. Some people just needs to be pulled up and a point hammered in. What works for some does not work for others, and if you are trying to change someone's viewpoint, then approaches must be adjusted accordingly.

Also, it would be erroneous to assume that I have not seen these shortcomings from some veterans first hand. I tutor quite extensively, both virtually and face to face. I also mentor a good number of vets.

But I do not need to defend myself personally to you, only the point that I made. I am sorry if harsh words are very abrasive to you, but that is you and how you respond to verbal stimuli.

 

[GunnerBGone]

Let me tell you something..there's two types of veterans. Those that use the tools the military has given them and those who the military has used as tools. No one likes the latter.

Classy.

I'm just gonna quote this so you can't edit it later.

 

[ShabNasty]

But consider that I was reminding the OP that he has a strength that other students cannot tap into, when things get hard. Other students haven't been through the things we have. Other students haven't seen smart, friendly, potential scientists...laying in the dirt. Its not cynical to use it to keep you studying when you'd rather take it easy.

This is a great point, but why not make it from the get-go? If this is what you were trying to get across, I think it was lost on most people.

 

[HM3]

Classy.

I'm just gonna quote this so you can't edit it later.

I think you have me confused with someone? 🙄

 

[impact2d]

No

Yes

Read the forums!

What do you think?
Also, READ THE FORUM! The question's been covered 8 gajillion times.

Don't know if serious.


Excuses.
Stop it.


More excuses and shifting blame.
No, you won't pick it up with that attitude. And I don't want you in class beside me.



If you start getting A's...maybe.



Surprise...you're not the only veteran

To answer one of your questions that was made fun of without considering its merit, yes there are other schools that will give you preference. Because many new England states only have one medical school, many belong to a cooperative agreement. I believe UCONN is one of these schools. Look up the tuition on schools on NE, if they have a New England Tuition, they are part of the agreement. Not quite the same preference of IS but still something.

In other news, I'm surprised by the extreme response here. It's not just vets that start the process with naivete, but many premeds. Many start the process thinking their research, their clinicals, their major, and their (insert special accomplishment) makes them extremely unique. Once one enters the process and realizes the caliber of applicants they will inevitably have their oh crap moment. Can't we point that out without being self righteous and personal?

And frankly, or the record, I do believe going to war earns one a level of respect, far more than standard ECs and volunteerism. That said, it does not replace clinical experience unless it was a clinical rating/MOS
Sent from my ADR6400L using SDN Mobile

 

[HM3]

But I do not need to defend myself personally to you, only the point that I made. I am sorry if harsh words are very abrasive to you, but that is you and how you respond to verbal stimuli.

Well, you seem to be taking it personally. I mainly post here when I see erroneous information being thrown around. Your point is that Gunner is righteous in his cynicism. Well, according to him he has failed to get into Medical School thus far. I was pointing out that his negativity is what's holding him back, and I just don't want that resentment rubbing off on the OP...which he has tried to do. You can defend him all you want, but you in no way represent Veterans and you should not pretend to do so.

 

[RomanTaylor]

Oh boy, I, in no way, comported myself as a representative of veterans. Where are you getting that from?

And no, I am not the one taking anything personally here. I believe the ad hominem attacks are coming from your camp, not mine.

But seeing how this conversation has devolved to this, I think I'll leave.

 

[HM3]

You made the point that you are sick of seeing Veterans using their status to their advantage. This comes off very abrasive, especially from someone who is not a Veteran. You made the case that you "mentor" and speak with veterans often, as if this insight somehow warrants your opinion right. Point to any ad hominem attack I have made. I am telling you truths that are relevant to this thread. If you can not defend your point, by all means, leave.