Exactly what position in "business" should you go into if you actually care about money?

[TheAppleJuice]

So some wisdom I see a lot on SDN is that if money if your top priority, you should go into "business" and not medicine

but what exactly is business? and can you get there with a biology degree? I happen to have a bio degree from a top 20 school with a good GPA and am wondering if I should apply to med school or take this "business" route for the money, but where do I start? what job pays 150, 200, 300+?

not sure if people on here would know exactly but I thought i'd ask

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[HomeSkool]

If you want to go into business, it helps to have a business degree -- either a BBA or an MBA (preferably the latter). You'll generally start in a lower-paying position (the average salary for MBAs straight out of school is about $125K), but play your cards right and you can get into the C suite and make sums of money that dwarf what docs make. You can get into graduate business school with a biology degree. My bachelor's is in microbiology and I went on to earn my MBA after med school.

To answer the question in your subject line: management.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

If you want to go into business, it helps to have a business degree -- either a BBA or an MBA (preferably the latter). You'll generally start in a lower-paying position (the average salary for MBAs straight out of school is about $125K), but play your cards right and you can get into the C suite and make sums of money that dwarf what docs make. You can get into graduate business school with a biology degree. My bachelor's is in microbiology and I went on to earn my MBA after med school.

To answer the question in your subject line: management.

Is it really worth it to get your MBA after med school? How many more years?

 

[TheAppleJuice]

If you want to go into business, it helps to have a business degree -- either a BBA or an MBA (preferably the latter). You'll generally start in a lower-paying position (the average salary for MBAs straight out of school is about $125K), but play your cards right and you can get into the C suite and make sums of money that dwarf what docs make. You can get into graduate business school with a biology degree. My bachelor's is in microbiology and I went on to earn my MBA after med school.

To answer the question in your subject line: management.

what is the time scale for this? don't you need like 5 years work experience to get into an MBA program? so really I would still be in my early 30s before I would be making any real money

 

[HomeSkool]

Is it really worth it to get your MBA after med school?

It's helpful if you aspire to leadership in a health system. It can also help if you want to work in nonclinical roles.

How many more years?

A full-time MBA is a two-year graduate degree. Many universities offer other types of MBA programs to accommodate various types of students, and they may allow more scheduling flexibility. My program was specifically designed for working professionals, and it allowed 3 years to complete the degree requirements.

don't you need like 5 years work experience to get into an MBA program?

No, most programs require one to two years. For some of the top programs, the average for matriculants is three to five years. My school (a top 20 business school) required two years; counting my gap year, I had 6 years of work experience when I applied.

so really I would still be in my early 30s before I would be making any real money

Leaving you 35 years of career to make bank. In medicine, you're even older before you start making grownup money.

 

[TheAppleJuice]

Leaving you 35 years of career to make bank. In medicine, you're even older before you start making grownup money.

aw, but i want to be rich through my 20's 🙁 I guess you can't have it all lol

 

[asrw77]

So some wisdom I see a lot on SDN is that if money if your top priority, you should go into "business" and not medicine

but what exactly is business? and can you get there with a biology degree? I happen to have a bio degree from a top 20 school with a good GPA and am wondering if I should apply to med school or take this "business" route for the money, but where do I start? what job pays 150, 200, 300+?

not sure if people on here would know exactly but I thought i'd ask

If you go to a top 20 undergrad there is a chance you are at a target school for bulge bracket banks and management consulting firms (this depends heavily on what region and city you are in, and varies a lot from undergrad to undergrad. Eg. Bain, a top management consulting firm, does not recruit at Columbia but recruits at Brown). The process to secure one of those internships/jobs is generally very difficult, but substantially easier from a prestigious undergrad. Those kinds of elite positions will pay anywhere from 70k to 150k straight out of undergrad. If you are extremely smart and good at networking you might even be able to land jobs at top PE firms, which would be quite lucrative, although I do not know personally how much (I think somewhere around 200k). The absolute highest starting salary I have personally seen straight out of undergrad has not been in business but software engineering - 160k.

Yes you can get there with a bio background, but you are at a disadvantage if you have not been networking during undergrad and are now out. Attend a career fair to see what companies are looking to recruit from your school. Feel free to check out sites like wall street oasis (another forum, SDN-like) if you'd like to learn more.

 

[libertyyne]

Seriously though, the consulting advice above is good if you go to a t20.
Wall Street Oasis | Investment Banking & Finance Community

Wallstreet also pays well.

The other alternative is learn to code and get a job in silicon valley.

 

[Deleted member 737595]

So some wisdom I see a lot on SDN is that if money if your top priority, you should go into "business" and not medicine

but what exactly is business? and can you get there with a biology degree? I happen to have a bio degree from a top 20 school with a good GPA and am wondering if I should apply to med school or take this "business" route for the money, but where do I start? what job pays 150, 200, 300+?

not sure if people on here would know exactly but I thought i'd ask

So basically, you are in a premedical forum saying you actually want to make money and are finding out that medicine may not be the best path for that...

 

[Lawpy]

@VincentAdultman approves 👍

 

[ciestar]

It isn’t the easiest to break into business without having prior experience in business. Even most entry level grads have experience via an internship in undergrad.

 

[cactusman]

If you go to a top 20 undergrad there is a chance you are at a target school for bulge bracket banks and management consulting firms (this depends heavily on what region and city you are in, and varies a lot from undergrad to undergrad. Eg. Bain, a top management consulting firm, does not recruit at Columbia but recruits at Brown). The process to secure one of those internships/jobs is generally very difficult, but substantially easier from a prestigious undergrad. Those kinds of elite positions will pay anywhere from 70k to 150k straight out of undergrad. If you are extremely smart and good at networking you might even be able to land jobs at top PE firms, which would be quite lucrative, although I do not know personally how much (I think somewhere around 200k). The absolute highest starting salary I have personally seen straight out of undergrad has not been in business but software engineering - 160k.

Yes you can get there with a bio background, but you are at a disadvantage if you have not been networking during undergrad and are now out. Attend a career fair to see what companies are looking to recruit from your school. Feel free to check out sites like wall street oasis (another forum, SDN-like) if you'd like to learn more.

I believe some healthcare and life sciences consulting companies (e.g. Huron) also hire more bio majors (I know the rest hire from a lot of majors but from what I understand the vast majority are Econ, business, engineering, maybe some physics). If OP is out of undergrad then depending on their job they may be able to use current work experience as a bonus for industry knowledge in a specific consulting field.

 

[asrw77]

I believe some healthcare and life sciences consulting companies (e.g. Huron) also hire more bio majors (I know the rest hire from a lot of majors but from what I understand the vast majority are Econ, business, engineering, maybe some physics). If OP is out of undergrad then depending on their job they may be able to use current work experience as a bonus for industry knowledge in a specific consulting field.

Yes, that's a good point. If you have a resume more geared towards pre-med/life sciences then it might be a good idea to look at consulting companies that focus on those areas. Two big consulting firms that have strong reputations in these areas are ZS and Simon-Kucher. I don't have firsthand knowledge of what the pay is like, but I suspect not bad (likely around 70k, maybe higher if you're in SF or NYC).

 

[aymar]

Consulting and investment banking are the two business fields that offer big $$$ right out of undergrad. Even then, you have to be at top firms to make big money out the gate. For consulting, think MBB (McKinsey, Bain, and BCG). The vast majority of the students who get these jobs are coming from top business schools (but not all). I know someone who got a job at McKinsey with a Psychology degree. As someone mentioned previously, it has more to do with whether or not the firms even recruit at your school.

Source: I have a BSBA from a top B-school. I chose to go into medicine though because I can't imagine my life at a desk job lol

 

[Welshman]

You can definitely make good money in business but there is no way you'll get to those upper echelons without some serious connections, luck or working the same number of hours that doctors work during residency. There is a reason the big consulting firms have massive attrition rates, they're constantly travelling and working 80 hours weeks. Same for investment banks, my friends are consistently in the office 6 days a week for 16 hours a day, even then you'll only be paid 80-100k to live in NYC...

Sure in 20 years IF you're in a senior level management and IF you're at the right company you'll be making ungodly sums of money more than the average physician does but you'd probably be on equal terms with the best physicians. My point is just because you go into business doesn't mean you'll reach the top of your field without serious talent and hours put in and only then will you be able to beat the average physician's salary.

You're going to have to put in residency like hours if you want to make the big bucks no matter what you do and there's no guarantee that you'll make it to the top (look at what happened in Fun with Dick and Jane!) I think becoming a doctor is still the highest earning career track you can follow with reliable results.

To be in the top 5% of earners you need to earn an annual income of $214,462, for the top 1% it's $465,626. Compare that with some specialities average yearly income. You can make more than enough money in medicine.

Now if you just don't like working in healthcare, that's a different story....

 

[MDPedigree]

As someone who made a 6-figure salary at age 21 right out of college working one of the jobs already mentioned here for one of the companies already mentioned here (obviously will not say due to anonymity), if you really JUST care about money, this is probably the way to go for you. Me personally, while money is important, it is not everything. I stopped getting fulfillment from paychecks within a few years, and that's why I made the switch to medicine. I attended a top 20 undergrad and graduated with a 3.7 gpa in a STEM field. I landed the opportunity due to one of my bestfriends already working with the company - that got me one foot in the door, and I think my academics also helped a lot (many bosses think: high GPA from a good school>experience, though to an extent). I would say my situation is more an exception rather than the trend. I had no working experience at that time.

 

[Khadif12]

So some wisdom I see a lot on SDN is that if money if your top priority, you should go into "business" and not medicine

but what exactly is business? and can you get there with a biology degree? I happen to have a bio degree from a top 20 school with a good GPA and am wondering if I should apply to med school or take this "business" route for the money, but where do I start? what job pays 150, 200, 300+?

not sure if people on here would know exactly but I thought i'd ask

If you’re attending a “target” undergrad then alot of big invest banks recruit on campus. These schools are Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Michigan U, Stanford, and MIT. Additionally there are semi targets like VCU and Emory. Sure the list of targets are a bit longer but once you reach schools that arent targeted then your chances of breaking into IB decrease exponentially. It’s not impossible but you’ll have to network your butt off and pray you can land a job at a small boutique firm then move to the bulge brackets. Starting pay at places like Goldmans is typically 160k and within 3 years you will be a healthy sum pass 240k. Beware though, the hours are LONG in the beginning. We’re talking 80-100 hours/ week. Then on top of that you’re at the mercy of the market, if you’re seen as expendable when the market is down then trust me, you will be cut.

 

[Welshman]

Just food for thought, all of my friends in IB, consulting and management have told me and other friends pursuing medicine that, while the money is good, they would much rather be actually helping people than sitting in an office all day trying to scheme ways to make their bosses money.

That can definitely apply to medicine as well but at least there is some potential to feel like you've done good at the end of the week by directly helping someone

 

[Welshman]

Business degree. My friend has an accounting degree and got job offers for IB straight out of school starting at 160k - turned it down since she didn't want to work 100 hr weeks. Went to one of the big 4 accounting firms. Says if you stay there past your CPA you will be guaranteed to make 400k+ (long hours though - 80+ for their busy season). If you stay and make partner you are making 1mil+.

Getting your CPA only requires one year of experience and most people I know get that almost right after they graduate... I'm highly incredulous that anyone would go from 160k to 400k after such a basic licencing

Another thing to keep in mind, how many people are in these company's class each year and how many become partners? It's not as linear or easy as most people imagine it

 

[libertyyne]

Getting your CPA only requires one year of experience and most people I know get that almost right after they graduate... I'm highly incredulous that anyone would go from 160k to 400k after such a basic licencing

Another thing to keep in mind, how many people are in these company's class each year and how many become partners? It's not as linear or easy as most people imagine it

CPA exam is extremely difficult from my understanding.

 

[Welshman]

CPA exam is extremely difficult from my understanding.

I'm not saying it's not difficult, it has like a 50% pass rate, but its a basic requirement of being an accountant that people take as soon as possible so find it hard to believe most accountants see a 250% pay increase after their basic licensing exam..

 

[RinShanKaiHo]

If you’re attending a “target” undergrad then alot of big invest banks recruit on campus. These schools are Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Michigan U, Stanford, and MIT. Additionally there are semi targets like VCU and Emory. Sure the list of semi targets are a bit longer but once you reach schools that arent targeted then your chances of breaking into IB decrease exponentially. It’s not impossible but you’ll have to network your butt off and pray you can land a job at a small boutique firm then move to the bulge brackets. Starting pay at places like Goldmans is typically 160k and within 3 years you will be a healthy sum pass 240k. Beware though, the hours are LONG in the beginning. We’re talking 80-100 hours/ week. Then on top of that you’re at the mercy of the market, if you’re seen as expendable when the market is down then trust me, you will be cut.

Why Michigan U or VCU instead of Columbia or Penn?

 

[pioneer22]

Why Michigan U or VCU instead of Columbia or Penn?

Don't trust this guy.
No way someone picks VCU over Columbia/Penn

 

[asrw77]

Why Michigan U or VCU instead of Columbia or Penn?

Don't trust this guy.
No way someone picks VCU over Columbia/Penn

It’s obviously a non-exhaustive list... different companies have different preferences as to what undergrads they like to recruit from (target schools). An elite Chicago-based company might want to fill their class with a Michigan or UIUC grad over someone from Stanford or Yale, for example.

 

[Doctor-S]

If you want money and lots of time away from work ...

Commercial airline pilot: one of my friends earns over $600,000/year and works 12 days/month, with free travel anywhere in the world.

 

[pioneer22]

If you want money and lots of time away from work ...

Commercial airline pilot: one of my friends earns over $600,000/year and works 12 days/month, with free travel anywhere in the world.

how is that possible?

 

[Khadif12]

Don't trust this guy.
No way someone picks VCU over Columbia/Penn

Like someone else said, my list wasn’t an exhaustive list of every school. Different firms in different regions target different schools, and it’s pretty common knowledge Penn and even Columbia are huge targets. The school list is too long to put everyone down.
Source: Two uncles that work in banking, one at Morgan Stanley in NYC and another at Barclays in Chicago.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

how is that possible?

How many EM docs work only 14-15 days a month?

 

[lovehate]

If you want money and lots of time away from work ...

Commercial airline pilot: one of my friends earns over $600,000/year and works 12 days/month, with free travel anywhere in the world.

Are you sure it's not 60,000??

 

[TheBiologist]

Why Michigan U or VCU instead of Columbia or Penn?

Duke wasn't on his list either, or heck even USC for business

 

[Deleted member 737595]

Are you sure it's not 60,000??

I have a hard time believing 600k for an airline pilot. That cannot be true. They do make good money though, around 100k generally, but I almost laughed when I read this.

 

[Doctor-S]

I have a hard time believing 600k for an airline pilot. That cannot be true. They do make good money though, around 100k generally, but I almost laughed when I read this.

My friend (captain) is laughing all the way to the bank ... his big salary is paid by a legacy airline.

 

[Mad Jack]

So some wisdom I see a lot on SDN is that if money if your top priority, you should go into "business" and not medicine

but what exactly is business? and can you get there with a biology degree? I happen to have a bio degree from a top 20 school with a good GPA and am wondering if I should apply to med school or take this "business" route for the money, but where do I start? what job pays 150, 200, 300+?

not sure if people on here would know exactly but I thought i'd ask

You don't go into business with a bio degree. Get a degree in something useful like accounting or economics, then get a MBA from a top school. Recruiters handle it from there.

 

[Khadif12]

Since some people can’t seem to grasp that my original list didnt include EVERY SINGLE targeted IB school; here’s a list from WallStreetOasis.

Targets:Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, Penn, Yale, Northwestern, NYU, Georgetown, Duke, Stanford, Michigan, Virginia, UNC, and UC-Berkeley

Semi-Targets:USC, UCLA, UT-Austin, Emory, Rice, Vanderbilt, Boston College, George Washington University, Washington University, Williams, Amherst, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Illinois, VCU, any other top liberal arts college

Non-Targets: ANYWHERE ELSE

If you don’t see the school here, it is not a target school. Thank you