Exam

[Vilash]

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[wolfvgang22]

I would greatly appreciate your help. I need to take my Clinical Skills Verification exam since I no longer board eligible. Does anyone know of any program that offer this option as Harvard is the only program that I am finding. They charge $5000 for interview 3 patients. Like $1500+ per hour really? Any help would be appreciate as I’m now cold emailing 300 programs across the US with limited or no responses. Do you know sites that list where to sit the CSE. The irony about the ABPN is they no longer require the CSE. Yet I have to still do it. It seems like runs as always made on the fly with logic or reasoning yet it’s always about money! I’m disgusted by medicine.

It's been a really long time so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why do you have to do a CSE if the ABPN doesn't require it?

Anyway, does it have to be done at an academic program? I would think a local to you board certified psychiatrist would help you out for a lot less money. A friend might do it for free. Are you employed? I know my employer would get it done pretty darn quick if they knew I needed it to keep working.

 

[PikminOC]

I would greatly appreciate your help. I need to take my Clinical Skills Verification exam since I no longer board eligible. Does anyone know of any program that offer this option as Harvard is the only program that I am finding. They charge $5000 for interview 3 patients. Like $1500+ per hour really? Any help would be appreciate as I’m now cold emailing 300 programs across the US with limited or no responses. Do you know sites that list where to sit the CSE. The irony about the ABPN is they no longer require the CSE. Yet I have to still do it. It seems like runs as always made on the fly with logic or reasoning yet it’s always about money! I’m disgusted by medicine.

Why are you getting board certified now? Is that also about money?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

It's been a really long time so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why do you have to do a CSE if the ABPN doesn't require it?

Anyway, does it have to be done at an academic program? I would think a local to you board certified psychiatrist would help you out for a lot less money. A friend might do it for free. Are you employed? I know my employer would get it done pretty darn quick if they knew I needed it to keep working.

Don't know what this guy is talking about. They still require CSVs during residency to sit for board exams as far as I know.

Don't have much help, you're probably not finding much about this because this isn't a situation many people run into where they haven't become board certified within 7 years of completing residency/fellowship if they're planning on becoming board certified.

 

[Stagg737]

It's been a really long time so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why do you have to do a CSE if the ABPN doesn't require it?

Anyway, does it have to be done at an academic program? I would think a local to you board certified psychiatrist would help you out for a lot less money. A friend might do it for free. Are you employed? I know my employer would get it done pretty darn quick if they knew I needed it to keep working.

You have to go through specific training to be able to observe and grade a CSE. In residency, we had to do a CSE and an additional observed patient assessment interview every year. Any attending could do the observed interview, but only a couple were allowed to proctor the CSE. If this is the same requirement OP is referring to, I can't imagine why any non-academic psychiatrist would be able to administer these unless they're part of a community residency program.

 

[PikminOC]

Op you list that you are board certified on your website. Texas medical board is ok with that?

 

[mistafab]

OP, you need to hire a native English speaker to fix your website. Won’t cost much. Maybe $100 to a neighbor’s kid or something. Multiple potions of your site need grammatical fixes.

 

[ClosetCentrist]

OP, you need to hire a native English speaker to fix your website. Won’t cost much. Maybe $100 to a neighbor’s kid or something. Multiple potions of your site need grammatical fixes.

On the contrary, the poor English probably causes people to stay away, and it seems like that's well deserved! He seems to be lying about being board certified, and much else seems to be intentionally misleading for people who don't know better (e.g. that testimonial on the front page, interviewing at 13 different residency programs to "pick the best"... We all know how the match works buddy)

 

[Merovinge]

Man I thought you guys were being rough on him and then I saw the opening a Med Spa bit after being a CFO (?!) for 3 years after CAP fellowship with a resume stating that he is still looking for other telepsych work and 2 different jobs in a year that he choose to post on his own website...

 

[FlowRate]

You have to go through specific training to be able to observe and grade a CSE. In residency, we had to do a CSE and an additional observed patient assessment interview every year. Any attending could do the observed interview, but only a couple were allowed to proctor the CSE. If this is the same requirement OP is referring to, I can't imagine why any non-academic psychiatrist would be able to administer these unless they're part of a community residency program.

Is this new? My recollection is we could basically ask any attending "hey do we have time to make this case a CSV?"

The only requirement I could find from ABPN was that the evaluator has to be BC by ABPN: https://www.abpn.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/CSE-Psychiatry-2017.pdf

The CSV documentation/recommendation after completion of three satisfactory CSV's does have to come from a residency program, however, so OP does need to be going through academic programs.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

CSVs are required, but easy to do during residency. Once you are graduated, this will cost you $1,500. Why would any program risk making you board certified if they didn't train you? Lots of risk in this.

 

[comp1]

I think any board certified psychiatrist can do the CSV if affiliated formally with a residency program on residents. I don't know if that's true for people outside of a residency program.

 

[Sushirolls]

CSVs are required, but easy to do during residency. Once you are graduated, this will cost you $1,500. Why would any program risk making you board certified if they didn't train you? Lots of risk in this.

What risk?
Medical license allows the practice of medicine, not BE or BC.
Academic programs mint ARNPs and PAs and now even mini "residencies" for them too.
I'm not seeing the risk.
BE and BC is just money.

 

[Stagg737]

Is this new? My recollection is we could basically ask any attending "hey do we have time to make this case a CSV?"

The only requirement I could find from ABPN was that the evaluator has to be BC by ABPN: https://www.abpn.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/CSE-Psychiatry-2017.pdf

The CSV documentation/recommendation after completion of three satisfactory CSV's does have to come from a residency program, however, so OP does need to be going through academic programs.

Interesting, maybe it was just a requirement at the program I was at that the attendings had to undergo specific training. I just remember that anyone could do our annual observed interviews but only a handful of attendings were allowed to conduct the actual CSE. I thought maybe ACGME had different standards for who could evaluate the CSEs, but apparently it's the same policy as APBN.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

What risk?
Medical license allows the practice of medicine, not BE or BC.
Academic programs mint ARNPs and PAs and now even mini "residencies" for them too.
I'm not seeing the risk.
BE and BC is just money.

So I certify someone as being competent in their ability to do a diagnostic interview that is up to community standards, and then that physician has a bad outcome. I could be viewed as the deep pocket. You can name anyone in any litigation. I wouldn't offer CSVs to anyone I didn't train.

As a PSA, everyone should know you can use an examiner twice, but the third has to be someone else and only board certified psychiatrists can certify CSVs.

 

[comp1]

You can, indeed, sue anyone for anything, but I sure would like to see any example of a lawsuit ever being filed against a CSV proctor...that seems stretching a bit. I mean you could also sue the person's high school principal because if they hadn't certified them as having graduated high school, they couldn't have gone onto college and then med school and then residency...

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Our risk management told us not to provide CSVs for people we haven't trained without insurance. So we don't do it.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Our risk management person told us not to do doc to doc conversations with outside pain management doctor unaware our patient drinks massive amounts of alcohol and lies to the pain management doctor who prescribeds the patient high dose opiates about it. They also said that if a patient transfers to an outside psychiatrist I cannot share with the patients new psychiatrist that the patient has homicidal command hallucinations, because the patient refused to sign a release of information. So I don't necessarily believe whatever the risk management guy says anymore. Legal refused to opine. But I understand you have to pick your battles, lol

 

[comp1]

Wow, legal sure is going to have to opine when the patient's family and/or the victim's family sues the facility...that's some really bad risk management there. It's absolutely the reverse of both the standard of care and literal concrete legal requirements. Your facility is at a lot more risk than someone doing a CSV...

 

[PikminOC]

You can, indeed, sue anyone for anything, but I sure would like to see any example of a lawsuit ever being filed against a CSV proctor...that seems stretching a bit. I mean you could also sue the person's high school principal because if they hadn't certified them as having graduated high school, they couldn't have gone onto college and then med school and then residency...

It's never a stretch.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Wow, legal sure is going to have to opine when the patient's family and/or the victim's family sues the facility...that's some really bad risk management there. It's absolutely the reverse of both the standard of care and literal concrete legal requirements. Your facility is at a lot more risk than someone doing a CSV...

This is why I hang on to the emails ordering me not to say anything.

 

[VivianG]

I would greatly appreciate your help. I need to take my Clinical Skills Verification exam since I no longer board eligible. Does anyone know of any program that offer this option as Harvard is the only program that I am finding. They charge $5000 for interview 3 patients. Like $1500+ per hour really? Any help would be appreciate as I’m now cold emailing 300 programs across the US with limited or no responses. Do you know sites that list where to sit the CSE. The irony about the ABPN is they no longer require the CSE. Yet I have to still do it. It seems like runs as always made on the fly with logic or reasoning yet it’s always about money! I’m disgusted by medicine.


Gratefully,

Vilash Reddy, MD
Child/Adult Psychiatrist

Hi,
My name is Vivian, i have similar situation as tours, its very difficult to find a program that allows you to do your CSVs. The problem with the one in Harvard is that is not guaranteed that you pass and spending this amount of money its not easy... If i find one i will let you know. I just e mailed ABPN to find out if they know about programs that recently helps with this. They sent me a kist before but none of them does it any more. Thanks and good luck!
Vivian

 

[FlowRate]

that is not guaranteed that you pass

It would be inappropriate of anyone to guarantee that you pass. They're acting as an independent verification that you're a reasonably competent physician and should have some sort of standards.

 

[VivianG]

It would be inappropriate of anyone to guarantee that you pass. They're acting as an independent verification that you're a reasonably competent physician and should have some sort of standards.

Of course! totally agree, the thing here is the amount of money you have to spend.

 

[VivianG]

Is this new? My recollection is we could basically ask any attending "hey do we have time to make this case a CSV?"

The only requirement I could find from ABPN was that the evaluator has to be BC by ABPN: https://www.abpn.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/CSE-Psychiatry-2017.pdf

The CSV documentation/recommendation after completion of three satisfactory CSV's does have to come from a residency program, however, so OP does need to be going through academic programs.

Its not the only requirement, the psychiatrist has to be affiliated to a residency program certified by ACMFG.