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In my opinion this is a win win situation for dentists AS LONG as they have to practice in conjunction with dentists. What should never be permitted is for hygienes to establish their own prophy clinics or something of this nature.
From a patient perspective, more services could be provided by relatively qualified personnel achieving our most important goal: To improve oral health.
From a business perspective, we could see a higher volume of patients delegating this procedures to the hygienist as needed, charge regular fees for the procedure and pay the hygienist an hourly rate.
Having said that, they hygienist that work at the clinic where Im working now really SUCKS, extremely poorly trained.
What I dont agree with is for hygienist to give local anesthesia and much less to give NITROUS, are they crazy. True anyone could do it, the issue is to know how to handle the complications.
In my opinion this is a win win situation for dentists AS LONG as they have to practice in conjunction with dentists. What should never be permitted is for hygienes to establish their own prophy clinics or something of this nature.
Welcome to the pains suffered by optometry!
This is all a bad idea. These hygienists and EFDAs will turn dentistry into what medicine is. We all need to pay our dues to ADA and hope they protect us.
What do you mean?
I know that a lot of optometrists want to do lasik surgery and the like, but... when you study "opto = eye metry=measurement". You're not really qualified to do surgery. If you knew you wanted to be able to do surgery why didn't you apply for med school and do an opthom residency?
I have a buddy whos a 3rd year in opto school, and after talking to him at length (and considering the classes he takes) I'm not sure why optometrists aren't eligible for opthamology residencies...
What about hygeinists cutting class I cavities, or doing simple temp restorations?
I agree with gryffindor. There are many times when you may think it will be a nice easy class I restoration and you find a "rotten avocado". If someone is going to cut into a tooth they better be prepared and trained to remove all pathology, this may include at minimum a pulpotomy. My view is if you couldn't extract or pulp it you probably shouldn't cut on it.What happens when that innocuous looking class I lesion is opened with a 169, you hit a huge pile of mushy dentin going straight to the pulp and now you need endo? Now this will get messy since it can be a live nerve, bleeding canals, you have to get the anesthesia out, etc. etc. So much for a tiny class I restoration you intended to fill with flowable.
Same with the temp restorations. If the cavity was prepped by the dentist and temped on Tuesday and the temp falls out on Thursday, then sure the hygienist could replace it until the patient returns next week for the definitive restoration. But a lot of times when an amalgam or composite has fallen out, there is all kinds of recurrent decay and often even decay into the pulp, and there is the root canal again. Where do you draw the line?
If they want to expand their scope, go to dental school.
What happens when that innocuous looking class I lesion is opened with a 169, you hit a huge pile of mushy dentin going straight to the pulp and now you need endo?
This is 100% on the money. I couldn't agree more.My view is if you couldn't extract or pulp it you probably shouldn't cut on it.
Just reading this is giving me nightmare flashbacks to my NERB exam today.
Just like gryffindor suggests here, I started out planning a simple class II amalgam that, according to 3 radiograph views, reached barely past the DEJ. Imagine my surprise, then, when I had to request permission from the examiners to deepen the prep in the direction of the pulp. Imagine my further surprise, and rather sudden distress, when my prep started bleeding from the middle.
Now, you have a hygienist trying to manage a carious pulp exposure--is it OK for them to do that, too? If you think so, you're essentially saying that dentistry is a profession that can be competently practiced with an associate's degree education. Nobody should be performing any procedure who isn't trained to handle the complications that may arise from it. That means no operative hygienists.
This is 100% on the money. I couldn't agree more.
(Incidentally, after spending a few minutes talking to the examiners, I think I still passed the NERB today. I'll update on Monday when I find out for sure.)
Just reading this is giving me nightmare flashbacks to my NERB exam today.
Just like gryffindor suggests here, I started out planning a simple class II amalgam that, according to 3 radiograph views, reached barely past the DEJ. Imagine my surprise, then, when I had to request permission from the examiners to deepen the prep in the direction of the pulp. Imagine my further surprise, and rather sudden distress, when my prep started bleeding from the middle.
Now, you have a hygienist trying to manage a carious pulp exposure--is it OK for them to do that, too? If you think so, you're essentially saying that dentistry is a profession that can be competently practiced with an associate's degree education. Nobody should be performing any procedure who isn't trained to handle the complications that may arise from it. That means no operative hygienists.
This is 100% on the money. I couldn't agree more.
(Incidentally, after spending a few minutes talking to the examiners, I think I still passed the NERB today. I'll update on Monday when I find out for sure.)
Ack, please please please check the FAQ.So what's the difference between a DDS and a DMD?
We let them place and carve amalgams, after the dentist preps it.
Just reading this is giving me nightmare flashbacks to my NERB exam today.
Just like gryffindor suggests here, I started out planning a simple class II amalgam that, according to 3 radiograph views, reached barely past the DEJ. Imagine my surprise, then, when I had to request permission from the examiners to deepen the prep in the direction of the pulp. Imagine my further surprise, and rather sudden distress, when my prep started bleeding from the middle.
Did you have to temporize Bill? I hope everything works out well for you. That test is the worst. So many things are out of your control. Good luck.
Ack, please please please check the FAQ.
Cliff's Notes version: There's no difference whatsoever. The degrees are identical in every respect.
Just reading this is giving me nightmare flashbacks to my NERB exam today.
Just like gryffindor suggests here, I started out planning a simple class II amalgam that, according to 3 radiograph views, reached barely past the DEJ. Imagine my surprise, then, when I had to request permission from the examiners to deepen the prep in the direction of the pulp. Imagine my further surprise, and rather sudden distress, when my prep started bleeding from the middle.
Did you have to temporize Bill? I hope everything works out well for you. That test is the worst. So many things are out of your control. Good luck.
What about dental therapists?
http://dentaltherapists.ca/index.html
http://dentaltherapists.ca/scope/#Anchor-Operative-11481
Operative Dentistry
Dental therapists are trained to restore teeth to proper form, function and esthetics, perform uncomplicated extractions, recognize and manage dental/medical emergencies, post-extraction complications, and provide local anesthetics to manage pain to restore and maintain the health of the dental patient.
Restorative Dentistry
restore teeth to proper form, function and esthetics
select appropriate materials and techniques
assess the need for, select and place appropriate space maintainers to reduce the impact of premature space loss
take impressions and fabricate study models
perform vital pulp therapy on primary teeth
manage dental emergencies to alleviate pain
Local Anesthesia
select the appropriate agent and technique to achieve local anesthesia to manage pain and minimize patient anxiety
prevent, anticipate, recognize and manage medical emergencies or complications related to the use of local anesthetics, should they occur
Oral Surgery
plan and perform extractions of primary teeth and uncomplicated extractions of permanent teeth
place and remove sutures
manage common intra-operative and post-extraction complications
Dental Therapists are actively involved in the oral health of First Nations and Inuit Communities throughout Canada. We also work in private practice settings in the provinces of Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Many Dental Therapists maintain dental offices in schools, health centres and community health facilities. There are travelling dental therapists who service smaller and remote communities with limited access to dental services.
Nope. I told a CFE, who brought the chief examiner over. He asked me how I planned to manage the exposure (Dycal & Vitrebond), and then he cleared me to proceed. After I based the prep, they graded it like normal and I was allowed to place the permanent restoration.
I know what you mean, though. There are a million things that can go wrong during a test like that, and any one of them can be enough to ruin your day.
Definition of DentistryI know they are identical, I was just giving the above poster grief since DMD does not have "surgery" in the name. Just pointing out that your title doesn't dictate your profession.
Definition of Dentistry
Dentistry is defined as the evaluation, diagnosis, prevention and/or treatment (nonsurgical, surgical or related procedures) of diseases, disorders and/or conditions of the oral cavity, maxillofacial area and/or the adjacent and associated structures and their impact on the human body; provided by a dentist, within the scope of his/her education, training and experience, in accordance with the ethics of the profession and applicable law. (As adopted by the 1997 ADA House of Delegates)
Therefore DMD does imply surgery by definition
Sorry I tried to be more tactful with my post when I cited the website to show the definition of DDS/DMD. I could have just said they are the same Dumba$$ but that wouldn't have been nice.LOL
From the link:
"Hygienists continuously remark that they are highly educated in prophylaxis and that they spend more time in an educational curriculum that teaches those skills than even dental students. They are concerned that the quality of services provided by assistants trained by dentists..."
Are they out of their minds?
I think that is a true statement. What about it do you not agree with?
Because this "skill" that apparently I'm lacking because dental schools don't train me right can be taught in about 1 hour to a monkey
Doing prophys is not hard at all and to use that as an arguement that you can do a restoration is mind blowing. They are trying to say they have such great training that it is only logical for them to procede to something a doctor is trained to do.
Let them do a restoration, I'm fine with that. But don't try to do it by strectching the truth to con some lawmaker into making it happen
DO you really think that you could perform a prophy or SRP the same speed and quality as a hygienist, say 2 years out? Repitition creates greater efficiency and increased quality (most of the time). Hygienists perform hundreds of more of these procedures than the dentists.
DO you really think that you could perform a prophy or SRP the same speed and quality as a hygienist, say 2 years out? Repitition creates greater efficiency and increased quality (most of the time). Hygienists perform hundreds of more of these procedures than the dentists.
From the link:
"Hygienists continuously remark that they are highly educated in prophylaxis and that they spend more time in an educational curriculum that teaches those skills than even dental students. They are concerned that the quality of services provided by assistants trained by dentists..."
Are they out of their minds?
Am I missing something here. Maybe my reading comprehension needs help and I am STUPID, but my take is this is about assistants performing hygiene duties like CORONAL POLISHING, not placing composites or prepping teeth.
Sorry I snapped man, just getting pissy that my part one score isn't in yet
I took that from a greater section justifying why they are capable of placing a restoration.
Im sure you did fine. As far as any type of justification of placing a restoration, they are probably capable, just like expanded duty assistants. I personally like to put myself in the patients shoes. If you are spending $600 on a quad of dentistry, and you see the dentist for 15 minutes( which is completely reasonable once you get your speed up to prep 3 teeth), and the hygienist or assistant steps in and spends 45 minutes restoring the teeth, how would you feel? Regardless of whether or not you can justify hygienists placing restorations, the dentist should prep and restore. Unless of course you live in a state like Kentucky
Take this stuff somewhere else, please.Are you kidding me! Are you suggesting that you have the pathophysiology background of a physician? Why don't you test yourself and take the USMLE Step 1 and 2? Bottom line…Surgery by surgeons.