Exparel users - question for you.

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Why not both?

http://www.jshoulderelbow.org/article/S1058-2746(16)30455-4/fulltext

Local injection of liposomal bupivacaine combined with intravenous dexamethasone reduces postoperative pain and hospital stay after shoulder arthroplasty
:corny:

I appreciate the post. I agree that the addition of dexamethasone of 0.1-0.15 mg/kg in the preop/intraop period will decrease postop pain. At some institutions, there are protocols in place for all total joint patients to receive dexamethasone IV regardless of the anesthetic technique/plan.

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In summary, intravenous dexamethasone prolongs analgesia duration of peripheral nerve blocks.17,18 It does appear that perineural administration of dexamethasone achieves slightly longer prolongation than the intravenous route.9,10, 12-14 The duration of extended relief may not be attractive in light of the fact that there is a possible concern for the risk of neurotoxicity.2-6 An intravenous dose of dexamethasone of at least 0.1 mg/kg should be used as it was found to have a reduction in postoperative pain and opioid consumption.21,22 Doses less than 2.5 mg are not preferred due to lack of effect.17 If perineural dexamethasone is to be used, we suggest using lower doses of 1-2 mg to minimize the risk of neurotoxicity.2,19,20 Furthermore, the dexamethasone needs to be preservative free as certain preservatives have been directly linked to neurotoxicity.3,4 More research is needed to verify the possible role of dexamethasone, route of administration, and its neuroprotective versus neurotoxic effects.


http://gaarrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-GAARRC-Abstracts-1.pdf
 
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Just to be clear, I'm not stating that using 100 ug/ml of perineural dexamethasone mixed with 0.5% Bupivacaine prolongs the analgesia to the same extent as 200 ug/ml or even 400 ug/ml of dexamethasone. In fact, my anecdotal data shows the exact opposite: The greater the dose of perineural dexamethasone the longer the duration of postop analgesia.

But, what I am stating is that low dose perineural dexamethasone is effective at prolonging nerve block duration with perhaps a better safety profile than higher doses of perineural dexamethasone.

Is there a dose response of dexamethasone as adjuvant for supraclavicular brachial plexus nerve block? A prospective randomized double-blinded clin... - PubMed - NCBI
 
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Okay, so I want to discuss a few things.

1. Those who hide behind the FDA as a reason not to use Exparel on a nerve are being grade A hypocrites because they use off-label use of other drugs all the time. IN fact, BLADE - why won't you use Exparel on a peripheral nerve like sciatic?

Here is what we know about depofoam. It was FDA APPROVED for intrathecal use when morphine was used. These are unprotected nerves that are VERY susceptible to injury - yet the FDA had no problem letting this stuff be place intrathecally. We also know bupivicaine is safe in the intrathecal space. We also know there are lots of reports of Exparel placed on nerves with no data to support any danger.

We also know that Amarin succesfully sued the FDA saying they should be allowed to market OFF-LABEL to doctors as long as they told the truth. Why is this important? Because it means the FDA has no jurisdiction to say how a doctor uses a medication. It has ZERO say - and the court case proves it emphatically and clearly.

2. Those that claim that they won't use Exparel on a nerve until a high quality study is done is saying they refuse to use there brain and refuse to use deductive reasoning, and refuse to use available science - and basically are admitting to NOT be a scientist. This is truly sad. Let me explain further. There is NOT convincing evidence that Exparel does NOT work better than straight bupivicaine. I also agree there isn't convincing evidence that the converse is true. So in the absence of this evidence, we need to seek answers. We need to ask questions. And I have question for those that refuse to use it because they think it isn't superior to plain bupi - Why do you think that is? Why doesn't liposomal bupivicaine not work better than straight bupiviciane? Is it because the liposomes don't actually work and all the bupi is released in 24 hours? Is it because the concentration is so low it is ineffective at the sight? Is it because over 3 days, the solution spreads such that it dilutes as it mixes with serous fluid and eventually becomes too low of a concentration?

These are important questions. Is it possible that it matters where the drug is placed? Is it possible that it works well on the sciatic but not the femoral? Does it work better in fascial planes? Does it need a nerve contained in a tight sheet as to keep the drug in the same area?

Rather than say it doesn't work - perhaps we need to ask better questions and figure this out.

I will tell you two things. Liposomal bupiviciane absolutely works over at least 3 days. It may not be clinically useful over 3 days depending on where you put it - but it absolutely elutes over 4 -5 days. This has been shown very clearly with serum level studies.

Second, it absolutely can numb a nerve for 4-5 days. I have used them on peripheral nerves (median, ulnar, sciatic or selectively tibial or common perineal, etc) and I have had patients say their hand was numb for 5 days. I used it for trigger points in the rhomboids, and the patient said their face was numb for 3 days (I guess the stuff spreads when placed in a fascial plane). I have seen great clinical benefit when placed right between the tibial/CP split (so it is contained in the sheath).

To say it doesn't work - is to deny information that is available.

I understand the cost issue. I also understand that it may not work - but certainly more info is needed.

It clearly isn't dangerous - and likely much safer than a catheter of bupivicaine.

And for all those getting on BLADE like he has some disclosures to expose - that is ridiculous. First of all, Pacira is a very small company. If anything, we need to ask you - are you on the pay roll of On-Q? Did Stryker pay you to come on here and bash Exparel? Have you received payment from Purdue pharma?

You really don't think those huge companies with deep pockets and strong lobby power - didn't have anything to do with the struggles Exparel has had with the FDA? They all stand to loose a TON of money if Exparel succeeds. 70% of the FDA money comes from PDUFA - which means drug companies pull the strings - which means Exparel is screwed because they are up against BIG BIG pharma - and you all sound like you are in their pocket.

I appreciate your post. Because I practice in a group setting I am careful about the drugs I use and the impact it may have on the practice. If I do a certain block or use a certain drug which the surgeons perceive as being "superior" for their patients this puts undue pressure on my colleagues to follow suit. Since this topic is controversial I prefer not to do even more PNBs with Exparel than I am currently performing until the FDA grants official approval. My colleagues are a lot like some on this board and I respect their individual right to practice Anesthesiology in a manner they believe to be both safe and effective.
 
Single episodes of nerve injury with dex don't mean anything. There are plenty of case reports of nerve injury from straight bupi. Where are the large studies showing a safety issue???

Meanwhile you are touting the safety of a drug that has had no large scale trials done at all looking at either efficacy compared to standard treatment for PNB or it's clinical safety profile in PNB.

I have nothing against exparel, but I will not use it until it's large scale safety and efficacy have been proven in large trials, not just in your personal experience
 
Blade - no real interest in reading everything you've posted. After 2-3 of your posts in this thread, you sounded more 'salesman-like' than the actual drug rep. Seriously, if you aren't getting paid by them you should be.

I don't really want to get into it with you, but all I can say is that in the large majority of instances (just about every nerve block we do with a motor component) Bupiv + dex is a great, fine combo to use. It won't last 3 days, but it's absurdly rare for me to interact with a patient who even WANTS a numb extremity for that long. Maybe your patient population is just different, or maybe you just sell your approach well.

I don't understand your continual argument of safety with regards to dex using rat data. Pain guys have been shooting steroid around nerves every day across this county for decades. I've never heard of a single instance of nerve damage that could be directly attributed to the steroid.

I actually think to say we should be using as much exparel as you apparently do is pretty irresponsible. But that's just my opinion. Bupiv + dex is safe, works great, and lasts plenty long enough
 
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Blade - no real interest in reading everything you've posted. After 2-3 of your posts in this thread, you sounded more 'salesman-like' than the actual drug rep. Seriously, if you aren't getting paid by them you should be.

I don't really want to get into it with you, but all I can say is that in the large majority of instances (just about every nerve block we do with a motor component) Bupiv + dex is a great, fine combo to use. It won't last 3 days, but it's absurdly rare for me to interact with a patient who even WANTS a numb extremity for that long. Maybe your patient population is just different, or maybe you just sell your approach well.

I don't understand your continual argument of safety with regards to dex using rat data. Pain guys have been shooting steroid around nerves every day across this county for decades. I've never heard of a single instance of nerve damage that could be directly attributed to the steroid.

I actually think to say we should be using as much exparel as you apparently do is pretty irresponsible. But that's just my opinion. Bupiv + dex is safe, works great, and lasts plenty long enough

Bup plus dexamethasone isn't "safe." The safety data has NOT been proven whatsoever and those of us who have performed thousands of PNBs (like Blockjocks.com) are wary of too much dexamethasone. You are using a drug "off-label" just as I am doing with Exparel.

As for Bup with dexamethasone not lasting for 3 days I, and others, have seen blocks with dexamethasone last 48-96 hours. While this is not the norm it does occur and is completely unpredictable.

I'm not selling anything to you; Exparel simply MAY have a role in our clinical practice over Bupivacaine with dexamethasone due to a better safety profile.
 
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Conclusions

In the absence of dose-response pharmacologic data for perineural and parenteral dexamethasone administration, and given the multi-factorial nature of post-block peripheral nerve injury, caution is advised against routine perineural administration of dexamethasone.


PERSISTENT SCIATIC AND SAPHENOUS NEUROPATHY AFTER... by Dr. David H. Hardman


In this case, severe axonal injury occurred in the setting of perineurally administered dexamethasone,
 
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These guys have seen the same thing I have with the use of Bup with Dexamethasone for PNBs: Unpredictably long blocks likely due to axonal nerve injury secondary to the perineural dexamethasone. Caution is advised against the use of dexamethasone for perineural administration in doses greater than 100 ug/ml. The incidence of this "injury" post-op is low (in the 0.3-0.6% range) but it isn't zero IMHO.
 
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These guys have seen the same thing I have with the use of Bup with Dexamethasone for PNBs: Unpredictably long blocks likely due to axonal nerve injury secondary to the perineural dexamethasone. Caution is advised against the use of dexamethasone for perineural administration in doses greater than 100 ug/ml. The incidence of this "injury" post-op is low (in the 0.3-0.6% range) but it isn't zero IMHO.
I think it has nothing to do with axonal nerve injury but a matter of intra vs extral neuronal injection.
 
I think it has nothing to do with axonal nerve injury but a matter of intra vs extral neuronal injection.

I suspect it only takes 1-2 mls intraneurally of Bup with dexamethasone (more than 100 ug/ml) to cause the Axonal nerve injury; this means there is no room for error at all even if the nerve/nerves appear totally normal (i.e., not swollen) after the injection.

Regardless of how you feel about Exparel and its use in patients please consider the scientific data on Bup with Dexamethasone and reduce the dosage to no more than 100 ug/ml of Dexamethasone per ml of local anesthetic in order to enhance the safety factor for your patients.

FYI, it would take a study of more than 16,000 patients to detect an incidence of 0.3-0.4% of Neural injury secondary to a PNB with Bup plus dexamethasone vs Bupivacaine alone. My previous posts and conversations with the experts lead to the assumption that if there is a risk of neural injury with this cocktail it is likely very small in that magnitude of 0.3-0.4%.
 
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With an incidence so small how can you establish causality?


Well, Some of us do a lot of blocks. We have N=0 with plain Bupivacaine (3,000) then get 3 "complications" with 0.5% Bup with dexamethasone out of the next 500 blocks. When you ask around to others with high volume practices they too have seen Bup with Dexamethasone last 72-96 hours.

As I have posted it would take a study with 16,000 patients to "prove" that Dexamethasone is indeed neurotoxic at commonly used clinical doses if the incidence is only 0.3-0.4%.

Whether you choose to ignore these comments is up to you. But, it is likely that your colleague or you will eventually see a PNB last 72 hours or longer if you are utilizing 200 ug/ml of dexamethasone with your local anesthetic.
 
Well, Some of us do a lot of blocks. We have N=0 with plain Bupivacaine (3,000) then get 3 "complications" with 0.5% Bup with dexamethasone out of the next 500 blocks. When you ask around to others with high volume practices they too have seen Bup with Dexamethasone last 72-96 hours.

As I have posted it would take a study with 16,000 patients to "prove" that Dexamethasone is indeed neurotoxic at commonly used clinical doses if the incidence is only 0.3-0.4%.

Whether you choose to ignore these comments is up to you. But, it is likely that your colleague or you will eventually see a PNB last 72 hours or longer if you are utilizing 200 ug/ml of dexamethasone with your local anesthetic.
Dude like i said i've been putting 5mg of dexamethasone in all my blocks for 10 years and maybe i'm not a pre-op monkey covering 4 to 1 but that's still a lot of blocks and i've never had a 72h block not even close.
What i'm saying is that if you see a complication that has an incidence of 0.3% how can you blame the steroid? Doesn't sound very scientific to me.
 
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So a dex block lasting 72 hrs is a complication? Personally would consider it an extreme outlier and as long block resolves in full, no harm no foul.

If I was seeing tons of case reports of long term nerve injury (weeks or more) from dex, then I'd be more concerned. Regardless, I personally stick to 2-4mg PF myself.
 
So a 72h block with dexa is nerve injury but if it's with exparel it's not?
Makes sense...
 
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I'll tell you what i'm not published but if i wanted to be i'd stick a fat tuohy in a nerve root and blame the steroid for the nerve injury.
 
Dude like i said i've been putting 5mg of dexamethasone in all my blocks for 10 years and maybe i'm not a pre-op monkey covering 4 to 1 but that's still a lot of blocks and i've never had a 72h block not even close.
What i'm saying is that if you see a complication that has an incidence of 0.3% how can you blame the steroid? Doesn't sound very scientific to me.

Before using dexamethasone I never had a PNB last more than 36 hours. This is was with a Nerve Stimulator primarily then U/S the past 6-7 years. Once I started adding the dexamethasone I had 3 blocks last longer 72 hours. This was very unnerving to the patients and surgeons. While there was no permanent nerve injuries I am not comfortable with blocks which can potentially last that long (when the expectation is 24 hours or so). There is a chance that the dexamethasone is neurotoxic as I have posted previously.

In your part of the world malpractice lawyers are non existent while in the USA it is part of our daily practice; from a medico-legal standpoint if a nerve injury does develop I can assure you that there will be plenty of peer reviewed experts in the USA who will testify against your practice of using dexamethasone, particulary dexamethasone greater than 100 ug/ml. But, that's your decision to make.

As far as being scientific I have simply posted the information and my anecdotal data for you to criticize. I have never claimed that my personal experiences are "scientific" in any way but rather just someone who wants to do right by his patients. I don't see the risk/reward of using high dose dexamethasone in my blocks so I have reduced the dosage accordingly with much more consistent analgesia in the range of 22-26 hours with very, very few outliers.

Again, I really don't care how any particular Anesthesiologist decides to practice (feel free to use 20 mg of perineural decadron if you want) but rather my posts are meant to inform and promote critical debate into the current off-label use of Exparel vs Perineural dexamethasone.

One last point is that 133 mg of Exparel diluted to 0.66% rarely, and I mean rarely, lasts beyond 48 hours and I have never performed a PNB with Exparel where motor loss was expected post PNB. I utilize the drug for field blocks or sensory only blocks because it's currently an off-label use.

For those that practice in the USA I urge caution with your perineural dexamethasone but the decision is yours to make.
 
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from a medico-legal standpoint if a nerve injury does develop I can assure you that there will be plenty of peer reviewed experts in the USA who will testify against your practice of using dexamethasone, particulary dexamethasone greater than 100 ug/ml. But, that's your decision to make.
This is your main concern?? Dude, you are boasting about how much exparel you use when there is literally ZERO safety data published. There is FAR more safety data for dex.

I can guarantee you'd get sued up the wazoo for this if you ever had long term nerve injury from exparel, even if it was sensory only. And there would be no shortage of experts willing to call you a cowboy.
 
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This is your main concern?? Dude, you are boasting about how much exparel you use when there is literally ZERO safety data published. There is FAR more safety data for dex.

I can guarantee you'd get sued up the wazoo for this if you ever had long term nerve injury from exparel, even if it was sensory only. And there would be no shortage of experts willing to call you a cowboy.

I disagree with your post and my practice reflects it. Blocking the saphenous nerve with a long acting liposomal bupivacaine formulation makes perfect sense. In addition, patients who have had a total knee replacement are already at risk of permanent sensory loss over their knee. This is discussed with the patient by the surgeon prior to the surgery. High dose perineural dexamethasone is more dangerous to our patients than Exparel and nothing in your posts have an inkling of science behind them. Good day. I see no point in responding to your posts any longer. The thread has run its course. I'll let the readers decide for themselves.

Prevalence of saphenous nerve injury after adductor-canal-blockade in patients receiving total knee arthroplasty. - PubMed - NCBI

Analgesic efficacy and quadriceps strength of adductor canal block versus femoral nerve block following total knee arthroplasty. - PubMed - NCBI
 
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I disagree with your post and my practice reflects it. Blocking the saphenous nerve with a long acting liposomal bupivacaine formulation makes perfect sense. In addition, patients who have had a total knee replacement are already at risk of permanent sensory loss over their knee. This is discussed with the patient by the surgeon prior to the surgery. High dose dexamethasone is more dangerous to our patients than Exparel and nothing in your posts have an inkling of science behind them. Good day.
So as long as the surgeon could be the culprit, it doesn't matter if you did it??? And it's ok to lose your saphenous nerve long-term in your opinion? Remind me never to request you as my anesthesiologist.

And I'll wait right here for all that Exparel PNB safety data and all those published long term dexamethasone injuries.
 
I disagree with your post and my practice reflects it. Blocking the saphenous nerve with a long acting liposomal bupivacaine formulation makes perfect sense. In addition, patients who have had a total knee replacement are already at risk of permanent sensory loss over their knee. This is discussed with the patient by the surgeon prior to the surgery. High dose perineural dexamethasone is more dangerous to our patients than Exparel and nothing in your posts have an inkling of science behind them. Good day. I see no point in responding to your posts any longer. The thread has run its course. I'll let the readers decide for themselves.

Prevalence of saphenous nerve injury after adductor-canal-blockade in patients receiving total knee arthroplasty. - PubMed - NCBI

Analgesic efficacy and quadriceps strength of adductor canal block versus femoral nerve block following total knee arthroplasty. - PubMed - NCBI
As per usual, your paper drops have literally nothing to do with the discussion. No one disagrees that TKR can cause saphenous injury, or that adductor canal is a great block.
 
So as long as the surgeon could be the culprit, it doesn't matter if you did it??? And it's ok to lose your saphenous nerve long-term in your opinion? Remind me never to request you as my anesthesiologist.

And I'll wait right here for all that Exparel PNB safety data and all those published long term dexamethasone injuries.


Neurotoxicity of perineural vs intraneural–extrafascicular injection of liposomal bupivacaine in the porcine model of sciatic nerve block

Neurotoxicity of Adjuvants used in Perineural Anesthesia and Analgesia in Comparison with Ropivacaine

How about you actually read the studies from start to finish? Your practice may be more harmful than you would like to admit.
 
As per usual, your paper drops have literally nothing to do with the discussion. No one disagrees that TKR can cause saphenous injury, or that adductor canal is a great block.

Of course my studies have everything to do with this discussion since I use Exparel 99% of the time to block the saphenous nerve primarily for total knee replacements.
That's my only off-label use and the incidence of injury to the saphenous nerve is very high from the surgery itself.

"84% of the patients had signs of injury to the infrapatellar branch of the saphenous nerve in the operated leg. Such findings are well-known complications to the surgical procedure."
 
Of course my studies have everything to do with this discussion since I use Exparel 99% of the time to block the saphenous nerve primarily for total knee replacements.
That's my only off-label use and the incidence of injury to the saphenous nerve is very high from the surgery itself.

"84% of the patients had signs of injury to the infrapatellar branch of the saphenous nerve in the operated leg. Such findings are well-known complications to the surgical procedure."

So you do a sensory block, aiming to get 2-3 days with exparel, and yet per your earlier posts, a similar block with bupiv + dex which provided a 3-4 day block was upsetting to patient and surgeon? That makes no sense.

FYI, between residency and first several years of private practice I've done plenty of blocks with dex and never had one last 3-4 days. But I don't use dex in lower extremity blocks (minus adductor canal, purely sensory, so length of block doesn't matter as much). Truthfully I find just plain 0.5% bupi to be more than adequate as I said earlier the large majority of my patients don't want numb extremities > 24 hrs. But I think dex is perfectly safe.

You've listed a dose of dex at which YOU believe toxicity occurs, and rather than just use less than that dose you choose to use an exceedingly more expensive drug with a goal of 2 days (bc bupiv + dex only lasts about 24 hrs, except when it doesn't the patients get up in arms upset, but are thrilled when an exparel block lasts just as long or longer).

Meanwhile, while pain docs inject steroid around nerves for decades without issue (in a patient population where issues will occur....) you make a claim of nerve injury when we inject steroid around nerves.

I really wish you'd stop with this nonsense. And I'm someone who generally enjoys your helpful experience around here.
 
I don't like dense, long acting blocks for another reason: the patients will injure themselves.

The worst nerve injury I've seen in my time was a peroneal nerve injury resulting in severe foot drop. A year out he was just starting to see a little improvement. This was a terrible injury in a young, healthy, active duty military guy who I think eventually got med boarded out of the military because of it.

He got a sciatic block and went home with a numb leg. I'm convinced the injury wasn't a direct PNB related problem - the block was done with a nerve stim and a tibial nerve twitch was clearly documented, and eventually EMG studies localized the injury to the fibular head - classic positioning injury. I don't believe it happened intraop because of the surgery and our setup for that surgery. I think he just went home with a great block and a super numb leg, laid it on the coffee table or against some other hard object, fell asleep, and woke up 8 hours later with a horrendous positioning injury.

I don't have any data to support this speculation, but I wonder if patients inflicting physical injuries upon themselves because they're too numb to perceive the tissue damage outnumber patients suffering direct injuries from perineural steroids.
 
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How about you actually read the studies from start to finish? Your practice may be more harmful than you would like to admit.

I have, and your evidence comes from this statement???

In the absence of M (Figure 3b), neurotoxicity associated with the combination R+C+B+D (with D at 66.6 µg/mL) was comparable to that resulting from incubation with R alone. However, doubling the D concentration to 133 µg/mL resulted in an increase in neurotoxicity that was significantly (p < 0.05) greater than that associated with R alone (Figure 3b).

So there might be increased neuronal damage from dex when you use dex, ropi, clonidine, and buprenorphine in a block in rats??? That's literally the only thing the study concluded about dex. They did not look at ropi plus dex alone.

In addition, as I've said before, where is the CLINICAL evidence. You know, like in patients. And no, your anecdotal evidence, as always, means nothing to me. I go by what's published. Pubmed neuropraxia dexamethasone. Comes up empty. You should publish your cases.

Lastly, as I've said before as well, I actually limit my dex to 2-4 mg so I'm pretty sure we actually do the same thing clinically when it comes to our blocks with bupi/dex.
 
Intraoperative Infiltration of Liposomal Bupivacaine vs Bupivacaine Hydrochloride for Pain Management in Primary Total Hip Arthroplasty: A Prospective Randomized Trial | Read by QxMD

Prospective study on exparel infiltration for total hip...suprise, suprise, no statistically significant difference from regular bupi and epi (except cost of course!)
Hard to evaluate the study from just the abstract but peri-articular infiltration for hip arthroplasty is not the the block i'd like to see a comparative study about.
 
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Intraoperative Infiltration of Liposomal Bupivacaine vs Bupivacaine Hydrochloride for Pain Management in Primary Total Hip Arthroplasty: A Prospective Randomized Trial | Read by QxMD

Prospective study on exparel infiltration for total hip...suprise, suprise, no statistically significant difference from regular bupi and epi (except cost of course!)

I believe based on anecdotal experience that DILUTE Exparel doesn't offer an advantage over standard Bupivacaine mixtures. The concentration of Liposomal Bupivacaine must be maintained at 0.44% or more to get an extended duration of action greater than standard Bupivacaine. Even then Bupivacaine with Precedex and Dexamethasone will have effective anaglesia beyond 24 hours vs Liposomal Bupivacaine which also has analgesia beyond 24 hours. Do I think concentrated Liposomal Bupivacaine is effective for prolonged analgesia (36-48 hours)? Yes. Is it worth the substantial additional cost vs standard Bup with adjuvants? The jury is still out on that one.
 
Rather than say it doesn't work - perhaps we need to ask better questions and figure this out.

I will tell you two things. Liposomal bupiviciane absolutely works over at least 3 days. It may not be clinically useful over 3 days depending on where you put it - but it absolutely elutes over 4 -5 days. This has been shown very clearly with serum level studies.

Second, it absolutely can numb a nerve for 4-5 days. I have used them on peripheral nerves (median, ulnar, sciatic or selectively tibial or common perineal, etc) and I have had patients say their hand was numb for 5 days. I used it for trigger points in the rhomboids, and the patient said their face was numb for 3 days (I guess the stuff spreads when placed in a fascial plane). I have seen great clinical benefit when placed right between the tibial/CP split (so it is contained in the sheath).

To say it doesn't work - is to deny information that is available.

I understand the cost issue. I also understand that it may not work - but certainly more info is needed.

It clearly isn't dangerous - and likely much safer than a catheter of bupivicaine.

And for all those getting on BLADE like he has some disclosures to expose - that is ridiculous. First of all, Pacira is a very small company. If anything, we need to ask you - are you on the pay roll of On-Q? Did Stryker pay you to come on here and bash Exparel? Have you received payment from Purdue pharma?

You really don't think those huge companies with deep pockets and strong lobby power - didn't have anything to do with the struggles Exparel has had with the FDA? They all stand to loose a TON of money if Exparel succeeds. 70% of the FDA money comes from PDUFA - which means drug companies pull the strings - which means Exparel is screwed because they are up against BIG BIG pharma - and you all sound like you are in their pocket.
Exparel barely works over placebo. I don't see why we are wasting so much time talking about it.

Pain was sufficiently severe to require second-step rescue with opioids viaintravenously administered patient-controlled analgesia in 92% of liposome bupivacaine patients and 81% of placebo patients.
Liposome Bupivacaine Femoral Nerve Block for Postsurgical Analgesia after Total Knee Arthroplasty | Anesthesiology | ASA Publications

You are much better off taking an advil.
 
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Exparel barely works over placebo. I don't see why we are wasting so much time talking about it.
Liposome Bupivacaine Femoral Nerve Block for Postsurgical Analgesia after Total Knee Arthroplasty | Anesthesiology | ASA Publications
You are much better off taking an advil.

That is one of those do it for the FDA studies to make sure the drug is active and safe. It is a poor study in some ways, but it does show Exparel works for PNB which is the big thing they're trying to show so someone can actually do a pragmatic study of it versus Bupi or catheters for cost.

I don't think most folks are doing just FNB now days for TKAs, as that doesn't cover much of the pain, and so I suspect you'd get identical results from a FNB with bupi at a lot lower cost, but now you know the drug does something in the fancy new formulation.
 
Patient gets traditional TAP blocks with Exparel for incision that extends above T10. Pain is not noticeably improved over bupi w/ decadron. Pain scores 6-8 on PCA for admission. No duh.

Patient gets subcostal and traditional TAP injections with Exparel and has pain scores 2-3 without pain meds for admission.

I see these contrasting examples ALL the time. People are underwhelmed by the drug only because of lack of consistency and quality in application, IMO...not because the drug is ineffectual.

I have never read anything from Blade re: regional that is not at least closely corroborated by my own experience.
 
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I don't doubt it works for a block. It's a local anesthetic. I sure hope it works!

But, until someone shows me it's BETTER than regular bupi (lots of studies show it's not for total joint infiltration), or better then bupi and dex for PNB, I'll stick with the cheaper (and much more proven) option of bupi/dex.
 
I'd like to get my hands on it and test it myself but alas it's not on the market over here.
Does anybody want to swap some exparel for isuprel?
 
I don't think most folks are doing just FNB now days for TKAs, as that doesn't cover much of the pain, and so I suspect you'd get identical results from a FNB with bupi at a lot lower cost, but now you know the drug does something in the fancy new formulation.
Did you mistype or are you really saying that FNB’s don’t cover TKA pain any longer?
 
Did you mistype or are you really saying that FNB’s don’t cover TKA pain any longer?
Not a mistype.

As a solo block, I've had more issues with knee pain than with a combo with something else.

One of the problems with a lot of our studies is that we don't do a placebo control. There are only a handful where they have, and often a FNB in solo is basically the same as a placebo, because of course a nerve block works right and you can't really blind it. I found one and the cochrane review had another two.

Postoperative analgesia after total knee replacement: the effect of an obturator nerve block added to the femoral 3-in-1 nerve block. - PubMed - NCBI - No diff in pain with bupi vs saline
Effects of a preoperative femoral nerve block on pain management and rehabilitation after total knee arthroplasty. - PubMed - NCBI - No diff bupi vs saline in pain but 10 mg less of morphine used
The effect of single-injection femoral nerve block on rehabilitation and length of hospital stay after total knee replacement. - PubMed - NCBI - Benefit Bupi vs saline for pain, mobility, etc.

Cochrane review primarily based on non-placebo trials:
Femoral nerve blocks for acute postoperative pain after knee replacement surgery. - PubMed - NCBI - Do a single shot FNB

Again, in my hands it is helps, but I'm not confident it's really that amazing, as I think we'd all agree evidenced by all the other stuff we're doing now in addition to a FNB
 
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The problem with these studies is that they are all over the place comparing apples and oranges etc...
Surgical technique and dexterity certainly play a part since for the same procedure patients of surgeon X always have pain in the sciatic territory and for surgeon Y not...

I find that often clinical information like we share on sdn is superior to all the "randomized double blind i don't know what i'm doing but i'm going to publish it regardless" studies.
 
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Bringing this thread back a year later and am interested in hearing people's use of exparel with interscalene nerve blocks. Anyone been using it on supraclavicular nerve blocks?

A patient had a supraclavicular done with exparel and was having resp distress and needed her BiPAP 24/7 afterwards (rather than at night only). ICU said it was diaphragm paralysis due to the block, but it was hard to say. Lasted about 4 days.
 
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Put me in the “I’m not overly impressed with Exparel over Bupi/Decadron” side of the discussion after several years of use.
 
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Put me in the “I’m not overly impressed with Exparel over Bupi/Decadron” side of the discussion after several years of use.
That’s fine. I think now that Exparel is FDA approved we can get much better data on its role, if any, in our daily practice.

I can tell you several patients who received Exparel for ISBs got 48-72 hours in duration. There was one by my partner who got minimal pain relief and no motor block. That patient required a rescue block in pacu.

I’m not sure about the quality of a 133 mg dose mixed with saline vs a more reliable block when mixed with bupivacaine (100 mg).

The 266 mg dosage undiluted seems to be the most reliable in terms of getting 48-72 hours.
 
FYI, if you ever need to reverse the phrenic nerve paresis post ISB consider a 30 ml “washout” with normal saline. This is especially important if a long acting local like Exparel is utilized.

The saline will help washout the local on the Phrenic nerve helping restore function and vital capacity.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/22201181.2018.1461318
 
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I’m mainly interested in whether these blocks could eliminate the need for interscalene catheters + onQ which are burdensome in many ways, but widely requested by the orthopods at my hospital.
 
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