Expensive private school vs. cheaper state school

[medic86]

Sure, because nobody who graduates from MCG (ahem, Georgia Regents) has any life experiences.



Because people throw around the opinion that taking out an extra 100 large is no sweat when you're making attending $$$, and I'm here to tell you that there can still be some sweat involved.

Correction: Augusta University

(yeah... they can't make up their minds)

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I have lived in Georgia all my life and I'm dying to leave. I've always wanted to live in the northeast, in a big city. I don't want to live in Augusta at all. The idea depresses me.

You have answered yourself.

 

[pageantry]

I feel you, OP. But, as a New Yorker, I have to say: Einstein is a wonderful school that produces great doctors, but it is *not* a fancy NYC experience. It's cramped, run-down facilities in a dilapidated part of the Bronx that is unusually isolated from the rest of the city. For a lot of people in NYC, if a place doesn't have a subway stop it doesn't exist, and that's Einstein.

Granted, this is very much the NYC experience for many people living below the poverty line. You grow to love it, in a cheerful, angry, Bronxite way.

(Also, your numbers appear to be tuition only. Compare COA. Einstein being in NYC bumps the price difference even higher.)

 

[apuli09]

OP I was living in NYC during my undergrad years. I went to school on the west side of the city and trust me not everything that shines is gold. Sure the city is nice and blah blah but trust me it gets old in pretty quick!
I also got accepted to MCG and I'm so happy to be far away from the city where the apartments are the size of my new bedroom and where people are too busy to even notice the person next to them!

 

[Mansamusa]

Also, to conceptualize time OP, if you do a 6 yr residency the amount of training you still have left is equal to the time from 2nd grade to graduating high school.

That is a long time before you are even able to start paying towards your loans. You don't know how healthcare will look and you don't know what your obligations and desires will be. The less debt you have, the more freedom you have to do what you want in the future

 

[maybedeadcat]

Ahhh I didn't expect this much of a response and I love it. Keep the strong opinions coming, guys! You've given me a LOT to think about... On one hand I know what the responsible decision is. But on the other hand, I just want to live my freakin' life already. When I graduated high school, people told me, "it doesn't matter where you go to college. In 4 years you can go to whatever school you want, and that's what matters." and now people are saying the same about medical school. Will it be the same in 4 years for residency? I don't know.

 

[maybedeadcat]

And yes, I know Augusta is a city (albeit a small one). And I know that the Bronx is not Manhattan. But it's a hell of a lot more exciting than south Georgia.

 

[eteshoe]

And yes, I know Augusta is a city (albeit a small one). And I know that the Bronx is not Manhattan. But it's a hell of a lot more exciting than south Georgia.

As someone who worked in Chicago right after college to get that "exciting" big city experience, it is not what it's glamorized to be. Sure there is a ton of 'exciting' events around but eventually you run into the limit - boredom and money. Doing cool stuff all the time costs both time and money, which can very often be an annoying hassle. Sometimes it's nice to live in a smaller city with a unique atmosphere and not worry about your car being broken into and the other slew of crimes & problems that comes with a big city. Also you don't end up paying an arm and a leg to live with roommates that can sometimes make you contemplate solving issues in not the most conducive/legal manner.

I think most people are not disagreeing that NY is not a more exciting place than GA but is the increased bill really worth being in a city where you won't have enough free time and more importantly money to utilize all the city has to offer. Once you start making money, you can decide how much excitement you really want but don't make your life harder by owing more money than you have to.

 

[Med Ed]

But on the other hand, I just want to live my freakin' life already. When I graduated high school, people told me, "it doesn't matter where you go to college. In 4 years you can go to whatever school you want, and that's what matters." and now people are saying the same about medical school. Will it be the same in 4 years for residency? I don't know.

Beggars can't be choosers. If you were applying to PhD programs then yes, the entire country would be brimming with possibilities. But you aren't. Instead you have made the cold-blooded decision to go the MD route, which carries with it several limitations: relatively few programs, even fewer that will accept you, and a statistical likelihood of one of those being an in-state option. This shouldn't be news, you knew this going in and signed up anyways, so spare yourself any whining about living your life. You are young, healthy, and going to be a physician. The glass is more than half full.

Will it be different for residency? Again, this will come down to choices you make. Want to do FM, IM, or peds? The world is your oyster. Want to do derm, ortho, rad onc, or ENT? Your options will be far more limited. Other choices will be somewhere in between.

 

[7331poas]

You quoted the wrong person but it doesn't matter I think

 

[Med Ed]

You quoted the wrong person but it doesn't matter I think

Strange, second time that has happened to me. I must be doing something wrong.

 

[maybedeadcat]

Beggars can't be choosers. If you were applying to PhD programs then yes, the entire country would be brimming with possibilities. But you aren't. Instead you have made the cold-blooded decision to go the MD route, which carries with it several limitations: relatively few programs, even fewer that will accept you, and a statistical likelihood of one of those being an in-state option. This shouldn't be news, you knew this going in and signed up anyways, so spare yourself any whining about living your life. You are young, healthy, and going to be a physician. The glass is more than half full

I'm a little confused?? If you read my OP, I'm in the extremely wonderful position of having multiple acceptances. Meaning I'm not a "beggar" at all- I *have* to choose, in fact. I appreciate your very frank opinion, but the snarkiness is a bit unnecessary.

 

[Med Ed]

I'm a little confused?? If you read my OP, I'm in the extremely wonderful position of having multiple acceptances. Meaning I'm not a "beggar" at all- I *have* to choose, in fact. I appreciate your very frank opinion, but the snarkiness is a bit unnecessary.

What I mean is that few people in this process get stuck deciding between Harvard, Penn, Hopkins, Wash U, Stanford, and 12 other school. Demand is high, supply limited, competition fierce, so even those with more than one acceptance usually can't write their own tickets.

If you think I'm being snarky, fair enough, but saying "I just want to live my freakin' life already" makes you sound like you're 15.

 

[rudyin78]

OP - live your life. do what your heart says. but definitely ask Jefferson/Einstein if they have more money first. IMO, even if you end up not liking NYC/Philly, having that closure that you went for it is much better than having the regret later that you played it safe (which you already did for undergrad). @Med Ed could certainly be right that you'll regret this in X amount of years. But as premeds/people in the medical field, i think we're so used to delaying gratification that time can slip by without us taking any chances!

I'm reminded of this video about regret:
People almost always regret not doing something they wanted to do and had the opportunity to do.

150K plus interest? YOLO. No one can call you irresponsible for GOING TO MEDICAL SCHOOL.

 

[maybedeadcat]

What I mean is that few people in this process get stuck deciding between Harvard, Penn, Hopkins, Wash U, Stanford, and 12 other school. Demand is high, supply limited, competition fierce, so even those with more than one acceptance usually can't write their own tickets.

If you think I'm being snarky, fair enough, but saying "I just want to live my freakin' life already" makes you sound like you're 15.

I never intended to go to a top 10. I didn't even apply. I'm sorry if you think I sound immature, but that's not really my problem. I'm sure you've had to make similar choices in life, and tearing me down because of it isn't very productive. Thanks for your help.

 

[Goro]

Philadelphia? Exciting???

New York? Now that's a different story!

I interviewed for a faculty job in Atlanta, so I'd be game with that.

As I said, people spend money on things of no value to me, eg cars. The experience of living in an exciting city, which you may never get to do again? Priceless.
Studies show people value experiences more than things. So, Apple to oranges indeed. I'll take the Big Apple.
Think of it as an annual vacation costing 25k a year.

 

[pageantry]

Philadelphia? Exciting???

New York? Now that's a different story!

I interviewed for a faculty job in Atlanta, so I'd be game with that.

Every time I've ever walked around Philadelphia I got the distinct feeling that it is a city that would take beautifully to a zombie apocalypse.

OP, a big city is a great experience and it makes a lot of sense to want it. I do think you might want Einstein if you think you want to do a high powered residency in a big city, but I wouldn't do it for the big city experience. The "big city experience" at Einstein will boil down to having to handcarry thirty pounds of groceries six blocks because you can't afford to have a car.

Personally, one thing I'm doing is a lot of dreamscaping. I'm letting myself fantasize about my future like I'm 13 years old--and trying to work backwards from what I want it to look like. For me, low debt gives me what I want. Maybe for you, Einstein, with its connections and research dollars, gives you what you want. Idk! I'd only do it if I were dead set on big city academia tho.

 

[Goro]

For NY pizza, deli and bagels alone, Einstein would be worth it.

Every time I've ever walked around Philadelphia I got the distinct feeling that it is a city that would take beautifully to a zombie apocalypse.

OP, a big city is a great experience and it makes a lot of sense to want it. I do think you might want Einstein if you think you want to do a high powered residency in a big city, but I wouldn't do it for the big city experience. The "big city experience" at Einstein will boil down to having to handcarry thirty pounds of groceries six blocks because you can't afford to have a car.

Personally, one thing I'm doing is a lot of dreamscaping. I'm letting myself fantasize about my future like I'm 13 years old--and trying to work backwards from what I want it to look like. For me, low debt gives me what I want. Maybe for you, Einstein, with its connections and research dollars, gives you what you want. Idk! I'd only do it if I were dead set on big city academia tho.

 

[pageantry]

For NY pizza, deli and bagels alone, Einstein would be worth it.

How bad can pizza really be??

 

[eteshoe]

How bad can pizza really be??

There's some pretty despicable quality pizza out there.

 

[bloom32]

My 2c, as someone going to my
cheap state school: You're going to be extremely busy during medical school. Wouldn't you want the most convenient setting possible? Somewhere near your support system (family) and somewhere easy to live? Living in a city comes at the cost of constant inconvenience. At MCG, just think of how nice it will be to drive around and do your errands when you need to! This is a luxury! Medical school is not the time in your life during which you want to move to a large city.

 

[Burning River]

How bad can pizza really be??

If you've never had Rascal House pizza then I can understand how you would believe that awful pizza doesn't exist.

And OP: I'll be making an almost identical decision under almost identical circumstances myself within the next couple months. I obviously have no advice for you since I'm parsing through these struggles myself but if you ever feel like bouncing thoughts off each other feel free to DM me

 

[bc65]

What we are talking about is more like buying a $10 pizza vs paying $500 to fly in a pizza from Italy.

It would be more like flying to Italy to have a pizza. That would be worth $500. Or $5000 if you can stay a week.

 

[bc65]

OP, a big city is a great experience and it makes a lot of sense to want it. I do think you might want Einstein if you think you want to do a high powered residency in a big city, but I wouldn't do it for the big city experience. The "big city experience" at Einstein will boil down to having to handcarry thirty pounds of groceries six blocks because you can't afford to have a car.

I agree with this. OP, if it were Mt Sinai, NYU, or Cornell, even Columbia, I would say definitely do it. But those have a better location, and also a better school reputation. Einstein, in the Bronx, is less desirable. You are correct that the Bronx will leave you with less distractions, but the real pleasure of Manhattan is walking out your door straight into the middle of the big city. You will have a big city experience in the Bronx, but it will be a very different city than Manhattan. It might be what you want. Just be sure.

For NY pizza, deli and bagels alone, Einstein would be worth it.

In the Bronx? Not to my knowledge. Not for the last 20 or 30 years, anyway. You'll need to go to Manhattan, or perhaps Brooklyn, for that.

Perhaps there's some right around Einstein, though I doubt it.

 

[pageantry]

Very good Italian not too far from Einstein. A little too good, if you know what I mean. Family style. Like, try-not-to-eavesdrop-on-the-conversations-good.

Which is like +10 points for Einstein, now that I think about it.

 

[zaztong]

Some supplements to my original reply:

I would suggest reading http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951766/ and http://www.siumed.edu/academy/jc_articles/Distlehorst_0509.pdf

It can be inferred that a top 40 vs not top 40 ranked school will confer a slight advantage for derm. But other factors probably rein. From the surveys, the name of the med school is of only modest importance to residency directors, in general. Post-residency salaries do not gain a significant boost from rankings though.

However, beyond purely just cash considerations, you should carefully research what experience you will actually get, instead of what you are imagining you will get. Experiences can be bought with cash, but you can't return them for a refund. It's a one-way transaction. Also the more expensive real estate to different school location analogy aforementioned is invalid as an argument, because a house is an asset that can be liquidated, meaning it can be reversed. Your MD degree is not reversible.

Many times, reality is more boring than fantasy. In my personal opinion, you are very likely overpaying for the experience of moving to a new city when it runs to 100k + interest. Yes, you could probably pay off your loans..eventually, with an extra 100k+ on your belt. But you lose a lot of opportunities and experiences that 100k could have bought. You can travel the world and gain a much higher quality and quantity of consumable experience with that money, instead of just one city.

But hey, if you will likely lapse into severe depression staying in the same city, even with the alternative of traveling to another city during summer, you should pay the extra 100k + int.

 

[Med Ed]

Also the more expensive real estate to different school location analogy aforementioned is invalid as an argument, because a house is an asset that can be liquidated, meaning it can be reversed. Your MD degree is not reversible.

I don't think you understand the analogy.

 

[Med Ed]

I never intended to go to a top 10. I didn't even apply.

Not what I was getting at, but never mind.

I'm sorry if you think I sound immature, but that's not really my problem. I'm sure you've had to make similar choices in life, and tearing me down because of it isn't very productive. Thanks for your help.

Getting annoyed because you sounded bratty and entitled in an earlier post is not tearing you down. Some thicker skin might be in order.

After due consideration, I think you should bail on Augusta and go to Philly (or NYC, if that works out). As so often happens, you seem to have made up your mind and are currently shopping for affirmation. No doubt there is a Georgia resident on MCG's wait list who will be thrilled to get the seat. And you will get to experience a big city in the northeast. It's a win-win.

 

[fasteddie911]

I would suggest going to the cheaper school, while prestige can make some difference (the schools you're considering aren't drastically different, imo), the ability to do well on board exams and rotations is a much bigger factor. I don't think it's necessary to take on more debt for the sake of the big city, and you'll probably have higher expenses in the city as well. Move to the big city for residency when you are actually making money. You'll have more time to enjoy the city as a resident with actual money to spend, as compared to med school where you'll be studying most of the time.

 

[Seth Joo]

Hi all! I was tempted to post this in the school-specific threads but I think this issue is more broad than that. If the mods feel that it's in the wrong place, I apologize!

Basically it boils down to this: I have been extremely lucky to receive two acceptances so far, one to Jefferson (~$53,000), and the other to the Medical College of Georgia (~$28,000). I am also waiting to hear from Emory and Einstein (both are comparable to Jefferson in terms of $).

I have lived in Georgia all my life and I'm dying to leave. I've always wanted to live in the northeast, in a big city. I don't want to live in Augusta at all. The idea depresses me. But on the other hand, it's just four years, and it is nice to be close to family.

At what point can I justify shelling out the extra money to go to a fancy private school? Is the prestige of Jefferson (or the others) great enough that it will give me a significant leg up when applying to residencies? Is the opportunity to live in a city worth the extra money? I will have some financial assistance from my family, but the bulk of COA will land on me.

If it matters, I have a strong suspicion that I will fall in love with dermatology. I can't say that I'm sure, but I definitely don't want to put myself at a disadvantage if that's the route I want to take.

And finally, my SO of 3 years wants to move with me. He will be able to find a job much more easily in a large city. I know I shouldn't base my decision on him, but it's a factor.

Help!!

Edit: Update! I was HPWL'd at Einstein, which seems to be promising. So that's in the mix now too.

I am assuming those numbers do not even include your living expenses, I am about to finish at the most expensive medical school in the country. I applied to state medical schools before going to my private medical school, if I had the opportunity to go to a public school, I would take it, regardless of the locale, the opportunity save money and to have less student loan debt to my name would be worth it.

You might want to consider that because medical school will leave you with considerable student loan debt, the kind you will not be able to discharge in bankruptcy. Also you need to remember that in medical school you have some discretion as to where you can be during your final year of medical school, so you can go where you like for your elective rotations in the fourth year.

I would not consider Jefferson a "prestige" medical school, its not a top 25 research medical school. In my own view it is not worth paying double the tuition of your in state public medical school.

 

[maybedeadcat]

I am assuming those numbers do not even include your living expenses, I am about to finish at the most expensive medical school in the country. I applied to state medical schools before going to my private medical school, if I had the opportunity to go to a public school, I would take it, regardless of the locale, the opportunity save money and to have less student loan debt to my name would be worth it.

You might want to consider that because medical school will leave you with considerable student loan debt, the kind you will not be able to discharge in bankruptcy. Also you need to remember that in medical school you have some discretion as to where you can be during your final year of medical school, so you can go where you like for your elective rotations in the fourth year.

I would not consider Jefferson a "prestige" medical school, its not a top 25 research medical school. In my own view it is not worth paying double the tuition of your in state public medical school.

Yeah I'm starting to realize that I shouldn't have even used the word "prestige" in my OP. What I really meant is that Emory, Einstein, and to some extent, Jefferson, have a much more recognizable name in medicine than MCG does. Either way, that's not my primary motivation. My motivation is really to experience a different way of life than I have for the past 22 years. But I can definitely see the merit in waiting 4 years, so I will be taking this decision very seriously.

It's nice to hear advice from someone actually going through this though! As opposed to attendings who are pretty removed from the process at this point.

 

[Seth Joo]

Yeah I'm starting to realize that I shouldn't have even used the word "prestige" in my OP. What I really meant is that Emory, Einstein, and to some extent, Jefferson, have a much more recognizable name in medicine than MCG does. Either way, that's not my primary motivation. My motivation is really to experience a different way of life than I have for the past 22 years. But I can definitely see the merit in waiting 4 years, so I will be taking this decision very seriously.

It's nice to hear advice from someone actually going through this though! As opposed to attendings who are pretty removed from the process at this point.

If you have alternative sources of funding I would say go ahead and try another pathway and attend one of those other schools. I am originally from the Northeast myself, Boston specifically and moved to the Southwest for my medical school education. If I did it again, if I got admission to a local public university I would choose an inexpensive public school.

 

[Cytarabine]

Yeah I'm starting to realize that I shouldn't have even used the word "prestige" in my OP. What I really meant is that Emory, Einstein, and to some extent, Jefferson, have a much more recognizable name in medicine than MCG does. Either way, that's not my primary motivation. My motivation is really to experience a different way of life than I have for the past 22 years. But I can definitely see the merit in waiting 4 years, so I will be taking this decision very seriously.

It's nice to hear advice from someone actually going through this though! As opposed to attendings who are pretty removed from the process at this point.

Also graduating, but I took the follow the money route to undergrad and to med school, still coming out about 250k in debt. Residency rank list is in, and I'll hopefully now be experiencing somewhere new after graduation while not being put into crazy debt to do so. No ragrets

 

[Padfoot]

I would be more tempted to choose the expensive option if you were confident that you could get into a high-paying specialty and are good with managing money. I think living in NYC for the 4 years of med school would be great, because you're only young once, and I personally wouldn't find the big city nightlife (ie clubbing) as enjoyable past the age of 26/27. If you like bar-hopping, that is something you can do when you're older, so I guess it depends what you prefer for entertainment?

 

[Neutropix]

I feel your pain. I grew up in rural northern Georgia. I flew the coop immediately after graduating high school. Now I live in Las Vegas lol.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

Georgia or Emory no brainer

 

[NickNaylor]

I didn't read most of this thread but, like @Med Ed, in most cases I will advocate that students go to cheaper schools over more expensive ones. The reality is that medical education is highly standardized. Is it likely that some schools are "better" than others in terms of opportunities (research, extracurricular) or even clinical education? Sure, I wouldn't doubt it. But the truth is that those differences are likely to be relatively minute, and in any case if you throw yourself into your education and work hard for a few years, you can do just about anything that you want to. On the other hand, the money that you spend to get that education will stick with you for a long, long time and will have consequences that you may not even be thinking about now. The truth is, OP, that the schools you mentioned are, roughly speaking, generally equivalent with respect to prestige, perhaps with the exception of regional differences. It's not as if you're choosing between, say, Harvard and MCG. Given that that's the case, I would absolutely go with the place that will be the cheapest. All of those institutions you mentioned are fine institutions and will likely prepare you well to become a physician capable of doing whatever you want. Save yourself future headaches and financial stress and go with one of the cheaper options. You'll thank yourself later 10 years down the line when you realize that this kind of thing really doesn't matter much at all.