Explaining bad grades/chances?

[senzen]

Hi! Okay so I’ve received some pretty bad grades (F and C in prereqs) and I have a C- in there too. I have retaken these classes (some at my school and I plan on still retaking the other). And a lot of my other prereqs are not all As—mainly B/B+. However I have a strong upward trend and am taking challenging electives (Biochem, Microbio, Evolutionary Biology, Cell Biology, etc.). I’ve worked really hard to bring it up because I realized medicine is truly what I want and I needed to get my act together to make that happen. I still have a B+ or two in some of my bio electives ever since my grades started getting better but they are mainly A/A-.


By the time I apply, my gpa will look something like this:


AMCAS-

cGPA: 3.6 (might be .03-.05 higher but mainly around there, it’s better if I lowball anyway)

sGPA: 3.5 (again, might be higher but lower than 3.55 for sure. Lets just assume its more close 3.5)

AACOMAS-


cGPA: 3.8+ (low 3.8)

sGPA: 3.7 (low 3.7)


thank goodness for grade replacement!


My question is do you think the F raises a serious red flag even if my gpa is somewhat decent (I really got those grades because I did not have my act together and didn’t take those classes seriously but I’ve matured and got a better work ethic and got better grades since then)? I am aiming for mainly 2nd or 3rd tier MD schools and would be happy attending any DO school.


I know there are many other factors to the process but I’m simply asking in terms of GPA. I have yet to take my MCAT but I am a good test taker and I know it may sound naïve but I will keep practicing until I score in the 95% percentile.


Do you think the F makes me an auto-reject at places? Is it a serious red flag?


I know LizzyM you’ve said somewhere that even if you have a C or 2 if your sci/cum gpa is still 3.7, the person most likely would be fine. I know my gpa isn’t 3.7 but 3.6/3.5 still is the average for many schools so do you think the same holds true? I know a F is worse than a C (I’ve gotten both…).


How will DO schools look at the F/C?


With slightly average GPA/ but a stellar MCAT (I know it sounds naïve but I really am determined to get it up there so lets assume I score in the 95th percentile, do I stand a chance at MD/DO schools?


I saw you comment on a similar thread where the person had a higher gpa so
@gyngyn @Goro @LizzyM @Ismet @Catalystik your advice would be very much appreciated.

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[senzen]

the F and C were indeed in in science pre-reqs

 

[senzen]

Just to clarify, those are my expected GPAs (that's why I gave a range just in case an A- or two instead of all As). I'm confident I can achieve this as these are the types of grades I've been getting for the past few semesters already just in case you guys have doubts and think I'm being over-confident.

So again, the GPAs listed above are my expected GPAs by the time I apply.

 

[Goro]

Quit fussing. Even an F and some Cs in your transcript aren't lethal. Plenty of MD schools reward rising trends and reinvention. You'll be competitive in many places!

Hi! Okay so I’ve received some pretty bad grades (F and C in prereqs) and I have a C- in there too. I have retaken these classes (some at my school and I plan on still retaking the other). And a lot of my other prereqs are not all As—mainly B/B+. However I have a strong upward trend and am taking challenging electives (Biochem, Microbio, Evolutionary Biology, Cell Biology, etc.). I’ve worked really hard to bring it up because I realized medicine is truly what I want and I needed to get my act together to make that happen. I still have a B+ or two in some of my bio electives ever since my grades started getting better but they are mainly A/A-.


By the time I apply, my gpa will look something like this:


AMCAS-

cGPA: 3.6 (might be .03-.05 higher but mainly around there, it’s better if I lowball anyway)

sGPA: 3.5 (again, might be higher but lower than 3.55 for sure. Lets just assume its more close 3.5)

AACOMAS-


cGPA: 3.8+ (low 3.8)

sGPA: 3.7 (low 3.7)


thank goodness for grade replacement!


My question is do you think the F raises a serious red flag even if my gpa is somewhat decent (I really got those grades because I did not have my act together and didn’t take those classes seriously but I’ve matured and got a better work ethic and got better grades since then)? I am aiming for mainly 2nd or 3rd tier MD schools and would be happy attending any DO school.


I know there are many other factors to the process but I’m simply asking in terms of GPA. I have yet to take my MCAT but I am a good test taker and I know it may sound naïve but I will keep practicing until I score in the 95% percentile.


Do you think the F makes me an auto-reject at places? Is it a serious red flag?


I know LizzyM you’ve said somewhere that even if you have a C or 2 if your sci/cum gpa is still 3.7, the person most likely would be fine. I know my gpa isn’t 3.7 but 3.6/3.5 still is the average for many schools so do you think the same holds true? I know a F is worse than a C (I’ve gotten both…).


How will DO schools look at the F/C?


With slightly average GPA/ but a stellar MCAT (I know it sounds naïve but I really am determined to get it up there so lets assume I score in the 95th percentile, do I stand a chance at MD/DO schools?


I saw you comment on a similar thread where the person had a higher gpa so
@gyngyn @Goro @LizzyM @Ismet @Catalystik your advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[Catalystik]

My question is do you think the F raises a serious red flag even if my gpa is somewhat decent (I really got those grades because I did not have my act together and didn’t take those classes seriously but I’ve matured and got a better work ethic and got better grades since then)? I am aiming for mainly 2nd or 3rd tier MD schools and would be happy attending any DO school.

No.

 

[LizzyM]

A 3.6 gpa can be mostly A and A- with a few B+ grades that pulled it down a little bit. With a strong MCAT and exceptional experiences (not cookie cutter) such an applicant might get an interview invite.

If a 3.6 gpa includes numerous F and C grades with A grades to pull it to a 3.6, there are more questions about the applicant's work ethic, preparation, maturity, health, time management, etc. It is much harder to recommend such an applicant for interview at a top school where the average gpa is > 3.7 when the school must deny an interview to more than 4 out of 5 applicants.

 

[senzen]

I received the F and couple of Cs in the first few semesters of college. By the time I apply I will have over 2+ years of A/A- grades with maybe 1 or 2 B+ with many semesters of challenging course loads.

Is that upward trend still not respectable? I know you only have the perspective of top school's admissions process but do you think 2nd or 3rd tier MD schools still might look favorably upon this?

I'm still going to try but I'm certainly keeping my options open. @LizzyM

 

[LizzyM]

I received the F and couple of Cs in the first few semesters of college. By the time I apply I will have over 2+ years of A/A- grades with maybe 1 or 2 B+ with many semesters of challenging course loads.

Is that upward trend still not respectable? I know you only have the perspective of top school's admissions process but do you think 2nd or 3rd tier MD schools still might look favorably upon this?

I'm still going to try but I'm certainly keeping my options open. @LizzyM

I.don't.know.

I have no experience with 2nd or 3rd tier schools. Never taught at one, never attended one, never served on the adcom of one. You've already heard from Goro and Catalystik who might have more experience in this regard. Why call on me to answer this question?

 

[MrLogan13]

Chill out, man. Like you said, you have a strong upward trend and your F's were in your first semester. You can't change it, don't worry about it. You've already done what you can to improve yourself. Present the best you that you can.

 

[senzen]

Ah sorry I can't help the typical neurotic pre-med behavior sometime :/

I simply wanted an MD and DO admissions perspective since I am applying to both but I realize you may hold a slightly different view since you're at a really top school. Regardless I appreciate the input. @LizzyM

Thank you so much @Goro @Catalystik @MrLogan13 for your input as well. I will do absolutely whatever it takes to become a doctor here. Sometimes I just have to remind myself I can't change whats already happened and can only move forward from here.

 

[Ol'Lady]

Quit fussing. Even an F and some Cs in your transcript aren't lethal. Plenty of MD schools reward rising trends and reinvention. You'll be competitive in many places!

i thought many schools screen based on AMCAS calculations of one's GPAs, which does not take grade replacement into account? I thought they calculated in the F and the A for that class?

 

[Goro]

OP has a 3.6 even without grade replacement. S/he has been doing something right.

 

[Ariodant]

I also only have the perspective of an (ex)adcom at a top tier medical school, but I would look past the Fs and Cs if you have taken upper division science classes and aced them. Like others have said, stop worrying about what you cannot change. Focus on what you still need to do: keep up your grades, ace the MCAT, volunteer and/or do research, apply early, apply broadly, interview well. Do that and you'll be fine.

 

[senzen]

Thank you so much for your positive words of encouragement! @Ariodant @Goro
I truly appreciate it. I'm going to hold my head up high and conquer my next couple of classes, MCAT and whatever else that stands in my way of obtaining an acceptance at an MD/DO school.

Sometimes I get so worried that I messed up so bad that I can't recover at all. Or did something that raises a serious red flag.

For example, I know LizzyM and Goro always say an academic related institutional action is basically the kiss of death and would require one to in all likelihood reconsider switch career paths. Even though I have never received any kind of institutional action in college (I'm super diligent and serious about doing everything in a very honest manner and with the utmost integrity), I worry that my really bad grades from my poor work ethic early on in college ruined my chances of becoming a doctor. I worry that some of my poor grades fall in the same boat as perhaps something that is unforgivable in the admissions world. Being a doctor is something I really always wanted yet only realized a few semesters ago that I need to get my act together to make it a bone fide reality.

But thank you for helping me realize my dream is still possible! I will continue to do well in my classes. I will ace the MCAT. I will do whatever it takes to become a doctor!

I have another question for @Goro and @Ariodant! What is considered a good amount of time for research? One year?

And what about for volunteering?
For volunteering, I would not be surprised if everyone had at least 1-200 hours. But would something like 500 hours impress an admissions committee member? and is it okay if let's say it's 350-400 hours clinical/100-150 non-clinical volunteering.

Getting good grades is hard enough! School and academics are my main priority and everything else is secondary to that. I will not sacrifice my grades to do something that could potentially impress an admissions committee member. I've learned balance of course and I do obviously participate in activities outside of school. But grades and school come first in my opinion.

 

[Ariodant]

Your priority is correct, grades first. No amount of volunteering will impress the adcoms, I've personally seen numbers into the thousands. The purpose of vlunteering is not to impress like a peacock's feathers are. It's for us to know that you have had some exposure to medicine and know what you are getting into. It's mostly for your own benefit. Do you want to take out 100+K of loans to be stuck with a job you hate?

If you are intrigued by research, do 1-2 years in a lab to, again, know what it's like. If you are not into research, don't do it. Don't do anything to check the box. Adcoms don't expect you to find the cure to cancer or operate on 500 patients. We only want to know that you have some ideas of what being a physician entails and have the academic competency to finish the rigorous training.

 

[gyngyn]

Applicants with your grades get accepted (even in CA!) all the time. What matters is the totality of the application.
I'm going to go with the "quit fussing" school on this one.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Hi! Okay so I’ve received some pretty bad grades (F and C in prereqs) and I have a C- in there too. I have retaken these classes (some at my school and I plan on still retaking the other). And a lot of my other prereqs are not all As—mainly B/B+. However I have a strong upward trend and am taking challenging electives (Biochem, Microbio, Evolutionary Biology, Cell Biology, etc.). I’ve worked really hard to bring it up because I realized medicine is truly what I want and I needed to get my act together to make that happen. I still have a B+ or two in some of my bio electives ever since my grades started getting better but they are mainly A/A-.


By the time I apply, my gpa will look something like this:


AMCAS-

cGPA: 3.6 (might be .03-.05 higher but mainly around there, it’s better if I lowball anyway)

sGPA: 3.5 (again, might be higher but lower than 3.55 for sure. Lets just assume its more close 3.5)

AACOMAS-


cGPA: 3.8+ (low 3.8)

sGPA: 3.7 (low 3.7)


thank goodness for grade replacement!


My question is do you think the F raises a serious red flag even if my gpa is somewhat decent (I really got those grades because I did not have my act together and didn’t take those classes seriously but I’ve matured and got a better work ethic and got better grades since then)? I am aiming for mainly 2nd or 3rd tier MD schools and would be happy attending any DO school.


I know there are many other factors to the process but I’m simply asking in terms of GPA. I have yet to take my MCAT but I am a good test taker and I know it may sound naïve but I will keep practicing until I score in the 95% percentile.


Do you think the F makes me an auto-reject at places? Is it a serious red flag?


I know LizzyM you’ve said somewhere that even if you have a C or 2 if your sci/cum gpa is still 3.7, the person most likely would be fine. I know my gpa isn’t 3.7 but 3.6/3.5 still is the average for many schools so do you think the same holds true? I know a F is worse than a C (I’ve gotten both…).


How will DO schools look at the F/C?


With slightly average GPA/ but a stellar MCAT (I know it sounds naïve but I really am determined to get it up there so lets assume I score in the 95th percentile, do I stand a chance at MD/DO schools?


I saw you comment on a similar thread where the person had a higher gpa so
@gyngyn @Goro @LizzyM @Ismet @Catalystik your advice would be very much appreciated.

If you can explain your academic difficulties in your PS, and if you score a 30+ on the MCAT, you definitely have a shot! I was in a worse position grade-wise than you are (AMCAS cGPA: 2.88, AACOMAS cGPA: 3.01), and ended up receiving multiple interviews from DO schools. It also helps if you are able to rack up many hours of clinical experience (1000+) to demonstrate your serious interest in medicine. Write a killer PS and secondary essays, and apply broadly to 30+ schools (I regret not doing this!), and you have a good chance of getting an acceptance. Best of luck to you!