Exploring podiatry, some questions

[amar314]

Hi everybody, I'm technically premed but I'm taking a look at podiatry and considering it as a career. I'm attracted to it because it seems to have a bit of everything and more work/life balance than the equivalent specialties in MD/DO.

I'd be interested in research (biomechanics, congenital diseases) as a podiatrist and would ultimately want to work treating mainly children and spend some time with underserved populations as well (homeless most likely and of course all ages). I'd also be interested in teaching alongside the research.

How are these goals of mine aligned with podiatry? Do I seem like a good fit? I shadowed a pod a couple months back and enjoyed it but I realized I was not interested in wound/diabetic care, is this disinterest a bad thing or can I get away without having to practice in that realm? (I'll get through it in pod school). I want to shadow another pod because this one spoke kind of badly about the profession but that seemed like his personality. He went on and on about little prestige and no money and then bragged about his new Porsche to the patients. He seemed to care more about $ than anything and suggested I go med school route and how his brother makes a million in pain med.

I have shadowed 2 MD doctors and I wasn't in love with it, I liked Ophtho but the difficulty of matching makes it unlikely, shadowed PM&R (physical med and rehab) and was honestly sad and bored by the end of the day. I like the action and ability to work with my hands in podiatry and I also think I'd enjoy the smaller community and less competition.

Another question - anyone know how residency compares between pod schools and med schools? In terms of hours and difficulty. Is it similar to the grueling surgery residencies?

Thanks everyone!

Edit: my stats- 3.5 overall GPA and 3.2-3.3 sci GPA. Taking MCAT this April. Involved in a lot of research (2 labs, likely publication, presentations, scholarship) and long term volunteering (where I gained leadership) throughout college.

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[dr.phoot]

Hey there. Welcome to the pod subsection of SDN!

I'll answer what I can and leave the rest for others to tackle.

Your goals to teach, research, and practice is certainly very realistic and it can be done! Some schools offer Masters & PhD's along with the DPM degree so look into which schools & programs when you're ready to apply.

As far as whether you're a good fit or not, well, are you? I can't answer that because well... I don't know you! So you'll have to figure that out doe yourself.

You're doing the correct thing by asking questions, shadowing, and trying to find out as much as you can about the field before committing fully into it! You're doing it right so keep it up.

Finally, podiatry residency is only 3 years vrs surgery that's about 7+. Some hospitals usually post what their podiatry residency entails. So look at some residency programs and you'll get a sense of the different rotations the podiatry residents go through.

Enjoy your stay here and good luck if you decide podiatry is your calling!

 

[bobtheweazel]

Hi everybody, I'm technically premed but I'm taking a look at podiatry and considering it as a career. I'm attracted to it because it seems to have a bit of everything and more work/life balance than the equivalent specialties in MD/DO.

I'd be interested in research (biomechanics, congenital diseases) as a podiatrist and would ultimately want to work treating mainly children and spend some time with underserved populations as well (homeless most likely and of course all ages). I'd also be interested in teaching alongside the research.

How are these goals of mine aligned with podiatry? Do I seem like a good fit? I shadowed a pod a couple months back and enjoyed it but I realized I was not interested in wound/diabetic care, is this disinterest a bad thing or can I get away without having to practice in that realm? (I'll get through it in pod school). I want to shadow another pod because this one spoke kind of badly about the profession but that seemed like his personality. He went on and on about little prestige and no money and then bragged about his new Porsche to the patients. He seemed to care more about $ than anything and suggested I go med school route and how his brother makes a million in pain med.

I have shadowed 2 MD doctors and I wasn't in love with it, I liked Ophtho but the difficulty of matching makes it unlikely, shadowed PM&R (physical med and rehab) and was honestly sad and bored by the end of the day. I like the action and ability to work with my hands in podiatry and I also think I'd enjoy the smaller community and less competition.

Another question - anyone know how residency compares between pod schools and med schools? In terms of hours and difficulty. Is it similar to the grueling surgery residencies?

Thanks everyone!

Edit: my stats- 3.5 overall GPA and 3.2-3.3 sci GPA. Taking MCAT this April. Involved in a lot of research (2 labs, likely publication, presentations, scholarship) and long term volunteering (where I gained leadership) throughout college.

I would say there could be a good bit of everything since you're limited regionally rather than by a specific system, so you could do dermatology and wound care and orthopedics and neurology and vascular work and sports medicine and etc of the lower extremity depending on how well you're trained in each one (I don't think you can be an expert in every one of those things, even just below the knee, though they're all in the scope of practice) and what kind of practice environment you wind up in. I also think the lifestyle balance would be a big pro because podiatrists average just over 40 hrs per week whereas I've seen averages for orthopedic surgeons ranging from 60-70+ hours per week depending on which survey you're looking at. Podiatrists are also less likely to have to take call.

You can work with whatever population you want if you start your own practice or can afford to be picky about where you end up practicing. I would say the only way to guarantee working with only kids is if you'll be cool with opening your own practice, and even then it takes a while (years) to build a patient base into what you want it to be, so coming straight out of residency and opening a primarily peds practice probably isn't viable. Same for the wound care and diabetic stuff, you might get lucky and find your perfect job but the only sure way to avoid it is to run your own practice, but starting a practice and trying to make it viable you wouldn't have the luxury of turning away diabetic/wound care patients early on.

I would agree that you should look into the podiatry programs that are coupled with a PhD if you're interested in research or teaching. It would probably be an easier "in" into either of those fields if you have a PhD. There are only 9 podiatry schools who already have all the professors they need, many of which are PhDs and MDs, so I wouldn't hold my breath at getting a teaching position at one. A clinical professor (DPM I believe) recently died at Temple and like the next day there was a flood of CVs coming in to fill the position, so competition is fierce. There are some DPMs teaching at some MD schools, but I wouldn't hold my breath on getting one of those positions either. Also, both of the researchers at Temple podiatry have PhDs (Furmato is also a DPM, not sure about Song), not sure how the other schools do it. Either way, I think also having a PhD would make you more appealing when applying for a research position. As far as funding for research, I guess it depends on what your trying to research, for what you want to research I have no idea how hard it would be to get funding for that.

A lot of doctors have the grass is always greener mentality. A lot of doctors aren't happy and would change their specialty or not go into medicine at all if they had a chance to do it over. If somebody thinks they'll be happier as an orthopedic surgeon or whatever making 500,000 and working 80 hours a week vs a podiatrist making 250,000 and working 40 hours a week then good for them, but I don't get the appeal. But either way, money shouldn't be the main criteria for choosing a specialty.

Podiatry can be right for you. The scope is plenty large enough and includes the things you wanna do, it just happens to also include some things you don't wanna do. If I were you, I would shadow at least a couple more DPMs. There are those who see primarily children or who maybe work in an orthopedic group and don't deal with wound care, but they're not nearly as common as general podoatrists. They are out there though and those are the people I would try to shadow or at least talk to (email) if I were you.



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[AttackNME]

Hi everybody, I'm technically premed but I'm taking a look at podiatry and considering it as a career. I'm attracted to it because it seems to have a bit of everything and more work/life balance than the equivalent specialties in MD/DO.

I'd be interested in research (biomechanics, congenital diseases) as a podiatrist and would ultimately want to work treating mainly children and spend some time with underserved populations as well (homeless most likely and of course all ages). I'd also be interested in teaching alongside the research.

How are these goals of mine aligned with podiatry? Do I seem like a good fit? I shadowed a pod a couple months back and enjoyed it but I realized I was not interested in wound/diabetic care, is this disinterest a bad thing or can I get away without having to practice in that realm? (I'll get through it in pod school). I want to shadow another pod because this one spoke kind of badly about the profession but that seemed like his personality. He went on and on about little prestige and no money and then bragged about his new Porsche to the patients. He seemed to care more about $ than anything and suggested I go med school route and how his brother makes a million in pain med.

I have shadowed 2 MD doctors and I wasn't in love with it, I liked Ophtho but the difficulty of matching makes it unlikely, shadowed PM&R (physical med and rehab) and was honestly sad and bored by the end of the day. I like the action and ability to work with my hands in podiatry and I also think I'd enjoy the smaller community and less competition.

Another question - anyone know how residency compares between pod schools and med schools? In terms of hours and difficulty. Is it similar to the grueling surgery residencies?

Thanks everyone!

Edit: my stats- 3.5 overall GPA and 3.2-3.3 sci GPA. Taking MCAT this April. Involved in a lot of research (2 labs, likely publication, presentations, scholarship) and long term volunteering (where I gained leadership) throughout college.

Before I started podiatry school I shadowed a famous sports med podiatrist and went through school thinking I was only going to do sports med, but grew fond of wound care in residency. Now I'm hired as a limb salvage podiatrist at a university where we teach family medicine residents how to do diabetic foot exams, and eventually may start a residency rotation or fellowship. I bring my experience as an example for you to keep an open mind, diabetes is apparently the number one most expensive disease in the world, the need is definitely there especially if you want to serve the underserved population. Teaching doesn't have to be in a classroom in front of students, it also comes in the form of bedside teaching residents and students in a less formal environment. You can find this opportunity almost anywhere that has an affiliation with any med or pod school.

Research is almost required in allopathic med school and most fellow applicants require having published. In pod school research is more of a bonus for residency and fellowship. Biomechanical research is harder to come by given the need for a gait lab, cadavers and gizmos to attach to cadavers and measure torque etc. I know Scholl and Temple have gait labs with biomechanics like research, dunno about the others. very few residencies have any biomechanical research, mostly have opportunities for data mining or small clinical projects. To do good research you need a good mentor. Few podiatrists are good at research, but no problem you can always find MDs with research and podiatry interests to guide you. I struggle to find any good research on congenital feet conditions, they are rare and you need to see a lot in order to have meaningful data... but then maybe you can be the first! if you have the drive, none of these challenges would stop you, but keep an open mind and do shadow more podiatrists. If you think wound care sucks, try finding a pod who does mostly "limb salvage", we have quite a different mindset when it comes to treating wounds.

 

[amar314]

Hey there. Welcome to the pod subsection of SDN!

I'll answer what I can and leave the rest for others to tackle.

Your goals to teach, research, and practice is certainly very realistic and it can be done! Some schools offer Masters & PhD's along with the DPM degree so look into which schools & programs when you're ready to apply.

As far as whether you're a good fit or not, well, are you? I can't answer that because well... I don't know you! So you'll have to figure that out doe yourself.

You're doing the correct thing by asking questions, shadowing, and trying to find out as much as you can about the field before committing fully into it! You're doing it right so keep it up.

Finally, podiatry residency is only 3 years vrs surgery that's about 7+. Some hospitals usually post what their podiatry residency entails. So look at some residency programs and you'll get a sense of the different rotations the podiatry residents go through.

Enjoy your stay here and good luck if you decide podiatry is your calling!

Thank you lots! I started to look a bit at the dual degrees but there isn't much information online, I'll have to call a few schools. Ideally I wanted to be active in research (be able to conduct studies and publish but not having my own lab etc?) without the PhD but I can see how that'd be harder. There are a lot of things I like about podiatry and a lot I don't know so my next step is definitely shadowing some more. I'm hoping to start Fall 2018.

I would say there could be a good bit of everything since you're limited regionally rather than by a specific system, so you could do dermatology and wound care and orthopedics and neurology and vascular work and sports medicine and etc of the lower extremity depending on how well you're trained in each one (I don't think you can be an expert in every one of those things, even just below the knee, though they're all in the scope of practice) and what kind of practice environment you wind up in. I also think the lifestyle balance would be a big pro because podiatrists average just over 40 hrs per week whereas I've seen averages for orthopedic surgeons ranging from 60-70+ hours per week depending on which survey you're looking at. Podiatrists are also less likely to have to take call.

You can work with whatever population you want if you start your own practice or can afford to be picky about where you end up practicing. I would say the only way to guarantee working with only kids is if you'll be cool with opening your own practice, and even then it takes a while (years) to build a patient base into what you want it to be, so coming straight out of residency and opening a primarily peds practice probably isn't viable. Same for the wound care and diabetic stuff, you might get lucky and find your perfect job but the only sure way to avoid it is to run your own practice, but starting a practice and trying to make it viable you wouldn't have the luxury of turning away diabetic/wound care patients early on.

I would agree that you should look into the podiatry programs that are coupled with a PhD if you're interested in research or teaching. It would probably be an easier "in" into either of those fields if you have a PhD. There are only 9 podiatry schools who already have all the professors they need, many of which are PhDs and MDs, so I wouldn't hold my breath at getting a teaching position at one. A clinical professor (DPM I believe) recently died at Temple and like the next day there was a flood of CVs coming in to fill the position, so competition is fierce. There are some DPMs teaching at some MD schools, but I wouldn't hold my breath on getting one of those positions either. Also, both of the researchers at Temple podiatry have PhDs (Furmato is also a DPM, not sure about Song), not sure how the other schools do it. Either way, I think also having a PhD would make you more appealing when applying for a research position. As far as funding for research, I guess it depends on what your trying to research, for what you want to research I have no idea how hard it would be to get funding for that.

A lot of doctors have the grass is always greener mentality. A lot of doctors aren't happy and would change their specialty or not go into medicine at all if they had a chance to do it over. If somebody thinks they'll be happier as an orthopedic surgeon or whatever making 500,000 and working 80 hours a week vs a podiatrist making 250,000 and working 40 hours a week then good for them, but I don't get the appeal. But either way, money shouldn't be the main criteria for choosing a specialty.

Podiatry can be right for you. The scope is plenty large enough and includes the things you wanna do, it just happens to also include some things you don't wanna do. If I were you, I would shadow at least a couple more DPMs. There are those who see primarily children or who maybe work in an orthopedic group and don't deal with wound care, but they're not nearly as common as general podoatrists. They are out there though and those are the people I would try to shadow or at least talk to (email) if I were you.



Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

Thanks for all your information! I wouldn't have considered surgery if I went MD/DO simply because of those hours, I think it's fair to love your life more than your career. So definitely a reason I'm attracted to podiatry, it's got the action/medicine with less sacrifice in terms of working hours. I've read all the pediatric podiatry posts on here and I could tell it's difficult and hasn't been done that much. For now all of these are just ideas since I don't have the experience, and I'd be happy treating anybody honestly. I see you're at Temple, I'd want to apply there since it seems research is a good part of the program from what I've seen online. Wow, competition is very fierce then! I've shadowed and talked to MDs and the large majority say it isn't worth it, so absolutely agree, people always assume another professions have it better. The pod I shadowed I truthfully didn't understand why he was so dissatisfied, some people are just like that.

Before I started podiatry school I shadowed a famous sports med podiatrist and went through school thinking I was only going to do sports med, but grew fond of wound care in residency. Now I'm hired as a limb salvage podiatrist at a university where we teach family medicine residents how to do diabetic foot exams, and eventually may start a residency rotation or fellowship. I bring my experience as an example for you to keep an open mind, diabetes is apparently the number one most expensive disease in the world, the need is definitely there especially if you want to serve the underserved population. Teaching doesn't have to be in a classroom in front of students, it also comes in the form of bedside teaching residents and students in a less formal environment. You can find this opportunity almost anywhere that has an affiliation with any med or pod school.

Research is almost required in allopathic med school and most fellow applicants require having published. In pod school research is more of a bonus for residency and fellowship. Biomechanical research is harder to come by given the need for a gait lab, cadavers and gizmos to attach to cadavers and measure torque etc. I know Scholl and Temple have gait labs with biomechanics like research, dunno about the others. very few residencies have any biomechanical research, mostly have opportunities for data mining or small clinical projects. To do good research you need a good mentor. Few podiatrists are good at research, but no problem you can always find MDs with research and podiatry interests to guide you. I struggle to find any good research on congenital feet conditions, they are rare and you need to see a lot in order to have meaningful data... but then maybe you can be the first! if you have the drive, none of these challenges would stop you, but keep an open mind and do shadow more podiatrists. If you think wound care sucks, try finding a pod who does mostly "limb salvage", we have quite a different mindset when it comes to treating wounds.

Thanks so much for your response! That is so true. And if I'm completely honest, I can't say I hate wound care when I only saw it once. I suppose it was just intense? I don't get grossed out easily but it caught me by surprise when I shadowed. So you don't have a PhD and you don't teach classes but you still teach residents? Are you doing any type of research alongside that? That sounds like something I'd be happy doing. Limb salvage sounds pretty cool how you're describing it, thanks for giving me a new perspective, I'll take a look at it! I've done research throughout undergrad and it's brought me so many great experiences so that's why I want to continue that. I see that there is mostly wound care research from what I've read online so I'll try to keep an open mind like you said.

 

[AttackNME]

Correct, you'd be surprised to find how informal most medical education is. Might be a good idea to look up a podiatry residency program in your area and shadow the attending a bit to see for yourself. The DPMs that teach in a classroom setting are usually affiliated with a podiatry school. Don't worry about being grossed out, as long as the interest is there, you'll get used to it. Without going into too much detail, as an attending now I have more freedom to do studies as principal investigator, but in residency I have done some retrospective cohort studies. One was recently rejected so I'm working on revising the manuscript and will figure out which other journal to submit to. Just got IRB approval for another retrospective study and am writing up a prospective trial and a few other prospective studies. Of course I'm not doing this alone, I have a lot of help from colleagues and other experts. I'm also learning a lot along the way! Feel free to PM me if you want details.