Expression of lack of interest?

[septoplasty]

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So I interviewed at a program couple weeks ago where they did not provide me a sample contract or any sort of information about salary/benefits etc. I later emailed one of the directors whom I interviewed with and inquired whether they had "forgotten".

She replied saying that they don't really have a sample contract, and contract is seen if and only if the candidate matches there.

Obviously, I had interviewed at a ton of different places, and all of them had given me a sample contract and had me sign an acknowledgement stating I had received such a thing.

NRMP Website:

Programs are expected to provide complete, timely, and accurate information to interviewees, including a copy of the contract the applicant will be expected to sign if matched to the program, if such contract is available, or a copy of the contract currently in use. Programs also must provide all institutional policies regarding eligibility for appointment to a residency position. This information must be communicated to interviewees in writing prior to the rank order list certification deadline or at the time the program interviews the applicant during the Match Week

Anyways, does not offering such a thing to a candidate show a lack of interest in him/her? My first thought is not since they decided to interview me in the first place, but I wouldn't think a program would blatantly violate an NRMP rule and do their own thing.

Any thoughts?

 

[Samoa]

This is a match violation. But call the institution's GME office and ask if they can send you the info. Let them know that the program hasn't given you the info, and you'd like to have it prior to rank list certification. Don't say any more than that unless pressed.

They will put 2+2 together and deal with the issue internally.

 

[septoplasty]

This is a match violation. But call the institution's GME office and ask if they can send you the info. Let them know that the program hasn't given you the info, and you'd like to have it prior to rank list certification. Don't say any more than that unless pressed.

They will put 2+2 together and deal with the issue internally.

Thank you for your suggestion.

See the thing is, I am not as worried about the details of contract/salary because those are provided on the programs website (granted they are outdated). I'm just worried they might have interviewed me for the "sake" of it. Seeing as how they are my numero uno place, I just feel as if I shouldn't consider them in my selection.

 

[C5toC9]

Doesn't matter. You should rank them #1 anyway since that's how the match works.

 

[gutonc]

All the NRMP rule says is that, if you ask, they have to provide you with some sort of reasonable facsimile of the contract. Should they have done so when you asked? Yes. Is it a big deal? No. It's not a Match violation since the Match hasn't happened, and the rule, as quoted above, states that they have until ROL deadline to get it to you.

I can count on 1 finger the number of programs (out of 16 interviews) that offered me such a thing without asking...and I didn't really care otherwise. and FWIW, that program was on a 1y ACGME review cycle (last step before probation) so they were following the rules to the letter.

In the list of "Top 100 things you should think about when making your rank list," "They didn't give me a copy of the contract" should rank roughly around #376.

TL;DR...if you liked this program, rank it highly. If you're concerned that this might be the tip of the douche-y/malignant program iceberg, don't rank it at all.

 

[coffeebeanjenn]

I interviewed at several places that did not provide the contract in written form. However, I asked once place and they said they consider the availability of the contract on the program/GME webpage to be sufficient.

I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Samoa]

At least 1/2 the places I interviewed provided a copy in the interview packet. One or two made us sign a form saying we'd gotten it. The rest had it available on the website.

I wouldn't read anything into them not providing it.

In response to gutonc: no it's not a match violation yet, but the program's response was that they would not provide a copy till after the match, which IS a violation.

 

[gutonc]

In response to gutonc: no it's not a match violation yet, but the program's response was that they would not provide a copy till after the match, which IS a violation.

True enough. But who's going to be on the losing end of reporting that (essentially irrelevant) Match violation? The program (who would lose 1 warm body that they could easily either recruit outside the Match or just do without) or the student (who would be without a spot and wind up working at Starbuck's for a year...or more)?

This isn't a battle worth winning.

 

[septoplasty]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

I guess I would agree with gutonc, this isn't something worth winning (not that I wanted to battle anyways).

My primary concern was this action being a passive suggestion of non-interest which everyone seems to have said is not an issue.

Tbh, sometimes we med students are neurotic, but at the same time, some actions of ours could have grave unforeseen consequences because of the way things can be interpreted which makes everything difficult.

Regardless, thank you all for your help.

 

[EMCoord]

I personally wouldn't read anything into it. I can tell you from the coordinator perspective (albeit just my own) that I treat all of our applicants exactly the same way, whether they are at top of our list or at the bottom. First because - well - we're all human beings and that's how it should be done. And second, because who knows how we will match? You could be last on my list and match with me, so what good does it do me to tier how I talk to you? Plus - if we invited you in the first place we think you're pretty alright.

If this program isn't giving you a copy of the contract (which is a violation, and probably shows some lack of knowledge of rules of the match - their GME office should be doing a better job of teaching and tracking), then they're not giving a contract to any of their applicants.

And aside from all of that - fully agree with C5toC9. It shouldn't matter to you what you perceive to be their level of interest. The way the match works, you should simply rank first who you want first. If they don't want you you won't match there, but it's not going to change where you do end up matching.