Extra things I am unsure about medical school loans covering?

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Wayfinder

Wayfinder

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Hi SDN trying to figure out financial things as I am applying for various gap year jobs. As many people on this site I am one of those soloing my finances, so I am just trying to run numbers.

I know cost of living expenses can be covered via scholarships and/or loans, like food, books, rent, health and auto insurance, phone bill, wifi, utilities, transportation, etc. What about the following costs? Do they fall under that blanket as well?

- Moving to medical school costs?
- USMLE Prep materials (UWORLD, First-aid, Sketchy etc?)
- USMLE costs?
- Moving after medical school to residency?
- Residency interview traveling costs?
- Doing out of state rotations during third or fourth year?
- Computer costs?
- Buying a car after medical school? (Mine should make it until residency starts, but I don’t see it lasting much longer. However, I realize this could be done with an outside car loan, and also depends on were you locate for residency).
- Costs to fly and visit family 2-3 times a year? (If out of state)
- Also, I am assuming it is easy to get a deferment on federal student loans for this time?

Thanks everyone for any insight you might have!
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Per one of the financial aid presentations I went to at my interview, of your list they can increase financial aid for: USMLE prep and costs, computer, car REPAIRS.

I think out of your list what wouldn't be allowed is: moving to medical school (esp since Federal aid cannot be dispersed until after you have started school), moving after medical school to residency, buying a car, flying to visit family. You can budget those things into your COA by living cheaper. They're not going to make you turn in receipts showing how you spent your loan money. You just can't request an increase in your financial aid for these reasons.

I'm not sure about out of state rotations or residency interview traveling costs.
 
Stellaartwa said:
Per one of the financial aid presentations I went to at my interview, of your list they can increase financial aid for: USMLE prep and costs, computer, car REPAIRS.

I think out of your list what wouldn't be allowed is: moving to medical school (esp since Federal aid cannot be dispersed until after you have started school), moving after medical school to residency, buying a car, flying to visit family. You can budget those things into your COA by living cheaper. They're not going to make you turn in receipts showing how you spent your loan money. You just can't request an increase in your financial aid for these reasons.

I'm not sure about out of state rotations or residency interview traveling costs.
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My experience with those last two is that it really is school dependent. If part of the school’s accreditation involves their use of out-of-state facilities then they tend to be able to allow those sorts of increases (Think UW WWAMI or Dartmouth partnerships with surrounding states etc).

Another thing that *appears* standard is being able to increase COA if you are unable to find rent in your area below the COA allotment (If you have a child and need a 2 bed, need for ADA accessible housing etc)
 
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samualjhatfield said:
Another thing that *appears* standard is being able to increase COA if you are unable to find rent in your area below the COA allotment (If you have a child and need a 2 bed, need for ADA accessible housing etc)
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This is not standard. My school’s (or the school I will be attending anyway) financial aid department told me that the COA can only be calculated for the student enrolled per federal regulations. This is a public school.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
This is not standard. My school’s (or the school I will be attending anyway) financial aid department told me that the COA can only be calculated for the student enrolled per federal regulations. This is a public school.
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Yes, fafsa rules do not allow for “need more bedrooms for all my kids” increases. Daycare, yes. Bigger apartment, no. Any school doing otherwise is not following the rules.
 
Thank you for all of the responses!
Does anyone have any ballpark estimates for residency application/ interviewing costs? The AAMC has a huge range on their site from 1,000 to 7,500 for the application process. Would living frugally but in a safe area be enough to counter this cost with loans, or is this something I should probably save at least partially before school actually starts? Or is it so different at every school that it is almost impossible to estimate until you know what aid you are getting offered, in addition to what specialty you want to pursue and your schools geographical location?
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
This is not standard. My school’s (or the school I will be attending anyway) financial aid department told me that the COA can only be calculated for the student enrolled per federal regulations. This is a public school.
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This is interesting that there is conflicting information/variation by school. For instance, I was told directly by Dartmouth financial aid that their published COA is calculated based on the average of all of their students - which works out to $8000 a year (most students share rent on a 4 bedroom kind of thing). But this is in an area where average rent for a 2 bedroom is almost $2000 per month, and even their on campus housing is >$1600 a month. So, the way they put it, their published COA on their website and MSAR is an average among all students, but they can approve up to something like $3000 a month....and this interaction was not an isolated discussion (not just with one school)
 
sb247 said:
Yes, fafsa rules do not allow for “need more bedrooms for all my kids” increases. Daycare, yes. Bigger apartment, no. Any school doing otherwise is not following the rules.
Click to expand...

Yes, daycare was the exception, but it is only for half of the cost since it is assumed the spouse will contribute half.
 
samualjhatfield said:
This is interesting that there is conflicting information/variation by school. For instance, I was told directly by Dartmouth financial aid that their published COA is calculated based on the average of all of their students - which works out to $8000 a year (most students share rent on a 4 bedroom kind of thing). But this is in an area where average rent for a 2 bedroom is almost $2000 per month, and even their on campus housing is >$1600 a month. So, the way they put it, their published COA on their website and MSAR is an average among all students, but they can approve up to something like $3000 a month....and this interaction was not an isolated discussion (not just with one school)
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As sb said, if schools are increasing COA for anything other than daycare and possibly a very small number of other dependent-related reasons (of which rent is not included), they are not following federal regulations for tuition. The financial aid rep at Quillen showed me the reg. Schools are either following the regs or they aren’t.
 
Wayfinder said:
Thank you for all of the responses!
Does anyone have any ballpark estimates for residency application/ interviewing costs? The AAMC has a huge range on their site from 1,000 to 7,500 for the application process. Would living frugally but in a safe area be enough to counter this cost with loans, or is this something I should probably save at least partially before school actually starts? Or is it so different at every school that it is almost impossible to estimate until you know what aid you are getting offered, in addition to what specialty you want to pursue and your schools geographical location?
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It depends on the specialty. Number of programs will vary depending on how strong of an applicant you are, how many interviews you get, how competitive the field is, etc. That’s why there is a range.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yes, daycare was the exception, but it is only for half of the cost since it is assumed the spouse will contribute half.
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I believe this to be untrue. As a parent, I paid extra attention during that part of the finaid talk and they never mentioned anything about COA being increased to only cover half daycare. I also can't find anything online to support that assertion.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
As sb said, if schools are increasing COA for anything other than daycare and possibly a very small number of other dependent-related reasons (of which rent is not included), they are not following federal regulations for tuition. The financial aid rep at Quillen showed me the reg. Schools are either following the regs or they aren’t.
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Question: isn’t it the schools who set their COA? So, for instance with Dartmouth, couldn’t they have a low-balled number that they display so students have an idea of what they are going to get but alternatively have an internal higher number that they actually utilize for Financial Aid purposes?
 
Wayfinder said:
Thank you for all of the responses!
Does anyone have any ballpark estimates for residency application/ interviewing costs? The AAMC has a huge range on their site from 1,000 to 7,500 for the application process. Would living frugally but in a safe area be enough to counter this cost with loans, or is this something I should probably save at least partially before school actually starts? Or is it so different at every school that it is almost impossible to estimate until you know what aid you are getting offered, in addition to what specialty you want to pursue and your schools geographical location?
Click to expand...

I lived substantially below the cost of attendance for my school - roommates, cheap apartment, cooked at home, etc... So going up to the full cost of attendance for my 4th year was more than enough money for me to survive application costs and interview season. Plus our cost of attendance was a couple thousand more for 4th year than earlier years so they give you some room there.

But it really is impossible to know interview costs until they happen. If you have to fly to NYC for an interview on December 10th and the only available flights on December 9th are $800 you're kind of stuck.
 
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samualjhatfield said:
Question: isn’t it the schools who set their COA? So, for instance with Dartmouth, couldn’t they have a low-balled number that they display so students have an idea of what they are going to get but alternatively have an internal higher number that they actually utilize for Financial Aid purposes?
Click to expand...
Why would anyone do that? What is there to gain from the school perspective? Seems like a great way to get in some sort of legal trouble affecting your ability to offer federal loans to your students
 
ndafife said:
I lived substantially below the cost of attendance for my school - roommates, cheap apartment, cooked at home, etc... So going up to the full cost of attendance for my 4th year was more than enough money for me to survive application costs and interview season. Plus our cost of attendance was a couple thousand more for 4th year than earlier years so they give you some room there.

But it really is impossible to know interview costs until they happen. If you have to fly to NYC for an interview on December 10th and the only available flights on December 9th are $800 you're kind of stuck.
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Whats the ballpark of residency application costs compared to med school application costs?
 
Stellaartwa said:
I believe this to be untrue. As a parent, I paid extra attention during that part of the finaid talk and they never mentioned anything about COA being increased to only cover half daycare. I also can't find anything online to support that assertion.
Click to expand...

I just double checked the information I was given from my school, and it says that per federal regs, COA can be raised by the DOE for 1/2 of the cost of daycare since that I what I would be responsible for.
 
samualjhatfield said:
Question: isn’t it the schools who set their COA? So, for instance with Dartmouth, couldn’t they have a low-balled number that they display so students have an idea of what they are going to get but alternatively have an internal higher number that they actually utilize for Financial Aid purposes?
Click to expand...

I mean there are schools that use a pretty low COA for the area and some that use a generous one.
 
ClamShell said:
Whats the ballpark of residency application costs compared to med school application costs?
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It depends on you.

You're going to have 10-15 interviews that you're going to go on. It depends entirely on flying vs driving. Hotel vs staying with friends/family. How well your interviews line up to minimize costs.

Someone already posted the AAMC estimate is 1000-7500. To go into more detail is pretty impossible until you know when/where you're interviewing.
 
ndafife said:
Why would anyone do that? What is there to gain from the school perspective? Seems like a great way to get in some sort of legal trouble affecting your ability to offer federal loans to your students
Click to expand...
I have no clue, just trying to mesh what I have heard from different financial aid departments/MED students and what I get here/the regs.
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I mean there are schools that use a pretty low COA for the area and some that use a generous one.
Click to expand...
Why is that? Is there an answer beyond “different schools have different priorities for their students?” Or is there a reason why you can live like a king in Omaha Nebraska or eat ramen in LA...
 
samualjhatfield said:
I have no clue, just trying to mesh what I have heard from different financial aid departments/MED students and what I get here/the regs.

Why is that? Is there an answer beyond “different schools have different priorities for their students?” Or is there a reason why you can live like a king in Omaha Nebraska or eat ramen in LA...
Click to expand...

I mean different areas of the country have different costs of living. For what I pay in NOVA to rent a 3 BR townhome, I could get a 5 BR single home in east TN. Why some schools under or overestimate COA is beyond me.
 
Stellaartwa said:
Per one of the financial aid presentations I went to at my interview, of your list they can increase financial aid for: USMLE prep and costs, computer, car REPAIRS.

I think out of your list what wouldn't be allowed is: moving to medical school (esp since Federal aid cannot be dispersed until after you have started school), moving after medical school to residency, buying a car, flying to visit family. You can budget those things into your COA by living cheaper. They're not going to make you turn in receipts showing how you spent your loan money. You just can't request an increase in your financial aid for these reasons.

I'm not sure about out of state rotations or residency interview traveling costs.
Click to expand...
You get x dollars, spend them as you please never heard of your expenditures being audited
 
Wayfinder said:
Hi really random question, I know sometimes child neurology is it's own residency program, would it be safe to assume it falls into similar categories as pediatrics or neurology on averages like this when it's not mentioned? Or do you really need to find data that is specific to those programs?
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I don't know anything about the competitiveness of that, sorry
 
I’m not sure about the majority of schools but all the schools I’m considering this fall included laptops, books, board fees/prep course, as well as miscellaneous (ranging from 4000-6000.) One of my schools even had us fill out a secondary internal aid app asking for specifics such as health care, child care and other recurrent expenses so I would say contact the school you are planning on attending to find out more. Make a budget prior to recieving your aid to get a ballpark idea of where you may need to make some cutbacks, so that you won’t be faced with running out of money during your 4th year. Yes your loans will be deferred, you will accrue interest in the meantime which can cause your principal balance to increase significantly by the time your graduate.
 
ndafife said:
Why would anyone do that? What is there to gain from the school perspective? Seems like a great way to get in some sort of legal trouble affecting your ability to offer federal loans to your students
Click to expand...
I just figured it out: It must just be a private school thing where scholarships are available (thus, it is not federal aid being granted). Specifically for Dartmouth, any amount of aid in excess of ~$48k is covered by institutional grants/scholarships as opposed to federal loans. Looking at all of the other schools I asked about on MSAR, the students have vastly lower debt than other comparable public schools. So, my guess would be they too are offering more institutional aid and this can be/are more flexible with their aid.
 
So you can’t request more (from direct unsubsized and grad plus) than the pre-determined COA by the school? For example, I’ve got some credit card debt (<10,000) I thought I could pay off so I’m not continuing to pay interest on it while in med school. Would I be able to do that and still afford to live etc.?
 
subdermallight said:
So you can’t request more (from direct unsubsized and grad plus) than the pre-determined COA by the school? For example, I’ve got some credit card debt (<10,000) I thought I could pay off so I’m not continuing to pay interest on it while in med school. Would I be able to do that and still afford to live etc.?
Click to expand...
That is not an allowable increase reason for fafsa
 
subdermallight said:
So you can’t request more (from direct unsubsized and grad plus) than the pre-determined COA by the school? For example, I’ve got some credit card debt (<10,000) I thought I could pay off so I’m not continuing to pay interest on it while in med school. Would I be able to do that and still afford to live etc.?
Click to expand...

Only for approved exceptions as noted above—dependent daycare, and I believe health insurance.

Outstanding credit card debt is definitely NOT included.

Pay off as much as you can before you start.
 
Wayfinder said:
Hi really random question, I know sometimes child neurology is it's own residency program, would it be safe to assume it falls into similar categories as pediatrics or neurology on averages like this when it's not mentioned? Or do you really need to find data that is specific to those programs?
Click to expand...

Child neuro is a separate residency program pretty much everywhere nowadays. If it's not included, usually it's because it's such a small specialty relative to others. I'd say it's around neurology levels of competitiveness, but since there are fewer programs available in a general area, you probably will have to travel more to get the same number of interviews. Plus, interviews are generally 2 days versus 1, so that's an extra hotel night you need to factor in - though some programs will cover part or all of your hotel costs.

Overall, I think interviews cost me around ~$3000. But I imagine there's a lot of variability in that amount from person to person.
 
subdermallight said:
So you can’t request more (from direct unsubsized and grad plus) than the pre-determined COA by the school? For example, I’ve got some credit card debt (<10,000) I thought I could pay off so I’m not continuing to pay interest on it while in med school. Would I be able to do that and still afford to live etc.?
Click to expand...

If you use your student loans to pay off credit card debt, you'll still be accruing interest on that loan money while you're in medical school. probably significantly lower interest, sure, but the money's not totally free.
 
TelemarketingEnigma said:
If you use your student loans to pay off credit card debt, you'll still be accruing interest on that loan money while you're in medical school. probably significantly lower interest, sure, but the money's not totally free.
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Yea but it would make a lot of sense both because the difference in interest rate and the fact that federal loans can be deferred and income-based while credit card debt cannot.

Though I’ve since learned it is a moot point as federal loans for med school cannot be increased above COA for personal debts, mainly only childcare.
 
subdermallight said:
Yea but it would make a lot of sense both because the difference in interest rate and the fact that federal loans can be deferred and income-based while credit card debt cannot.

Though I’ve since learned it is a moot point as federal loans for med school cannot be increased above COA for personal debts, mainly only childcare.
Click to expand...
Yes but my understanding from current students around the country is that if you have no dependents, you really don't need to take out the full COA. In other words if you don't have a family to feed you should have no problem living under the allowed COL and using the rest to pay off the CC debt.
 
subdermallight said:
Yea but it would make a lot of sense both because the difference in interest rate and the fact that federal loans can be deferred and income-based while credit card debt cannot.

Though I’ve since learned it is a moot point as federal loans for med school cannot be increased above COA for personal debts, mainly only childcare.
Click to expand...

True. I've already heard of people getting an increase in their budget for a new computer (if it isn't already in the budget) and when providing proof that their rent is higher than the school expected for the area.

I think it all comes down to budgeting. You should be able to pay off some of your cc debt if don't spend as much as they for allocate books, transportation, rent, etc.
 
OchemOficionado said:
True. I've already heard of people getting an increase in their budget for a new computer (if it isn't already in the budget) and when providing proof that their rent is higher than the school expected for the area.
Click to expand...

As mentioned, this is actually against federal regulations. I wish it wasn’t because as a father of two and a husband, my COL is a lot higher than the average student.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
As mentioned, this is actually against federal regulations. I wish it wasn’t because as a father of two and a husband, my COL is a lot higher than the average student.
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Certainly schools can do what they want with institutional loans though. Would any institutional loans/scholarships automatically reduce government loans by the same amount so that you can't receive over COA, or is that just a common policy implemented by schools?
 
theKingLT said:
Certainly schools can do what they want with institutional loans though. Would any institutional loans/scholarships automatically reduce government loans by the same amount so that you can't receive over COA, or is that just a common policy implemented by schools?
Click to expand...

Yeah, depends on the school for institutional scholarships. And you can always take out private loans over the COA.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
As mentioned, this is actually against federal regulations. I wish it wasn’t because as a father of two and a husband, my COL is a lot higher than the average student.
Click to expand...

May be against regulations, but I have heard of it happening for those two things I mentioned in particular. Not sure if the students are being honest, but that's what I've been told. I know for a fact it happens for those reasons for undergraduates. Not sure if the rules are different for grad students.
 
theKingLT said:
Certainly schools can do what they want with institutional loans though. Would any institutional loans/scholarships automatically reduce government loans by the same amount so that you can't receive over COA, or is that just a common policy implemented by schools?
Click to expand...

It would be counted toward COA if it is required to be placed on the award letter. I have heard of emergeny loans from the institution that are complete separate though. Those are usually short term loans as well.

Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yeah, depends on the school for institutional scholarships. And you can always take out private loans over the COA.
Click to expand...

True, but only if the private loans are personal loans or a student loan that is disbursed directly to the student/parent (not common). If they go through the school they will have to be added to the budget and if the student is already at COA, the loans will not be accepted.
 
OchemOficionado said:
It would be counted toward COA if it is required to be placed on the award letter. I have heard of emergeny loans from the institution that are complete separate though. Those are usually short term loans as well.



True, but only if the private loans are personal loans or a student loan that is disbursed directly to the student/parent (not common). If they go through the school they will have to be added to the budget and if the student is already at COA, the loans will not be accepted.
Click to expand...
Thank you for clearing that up!
 
OchemOficionado said:
It would be counted toward COA if it is required to be placed on the award letter. I have heard of emergeny loans from the institution that are complete separate though. Those are usually short term loans as well.



True, but only if the private loans are personal loans or a student loan that is disbursed directly to the student/parent (not common). If they go through the school they will have to be added to the budget and if the student is already at COA, the loans will not be accepted.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks for clarifying.
 
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