Extremely Competitive Year for DPT

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rockstudy

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Acceptance to DPT schools gets tougher every year. From the number of applications programs are getting and the stats that accepted students are posting, this cycle is by far the most competitive ever. Unless you have a steller appllication, one should be grateful for any acceptence. For those who end up with some choices, count your blessings and don't take it lightly. There are going to be some good applicants who don't get into a program this year. Best of Luck to everyone !
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I just got an e-mail from Chapman saying they had over 1300 applicants this year! In fact at every interview I've been told they've received (or expect to) around 800 applicants this year. I wonder how much other schools are getting? Are most schools over or near the 1000 mark this year? I feel lucky I'm applying this cycle because it looks like it's only going to get worse every year if the trend keeps up!
 
I completely agree with this post! I didn't apply to some ridiculous number of schools like some others have and I feel lucky to be in my position. I also believe that individuals that have been put on a wait list should be somewhat optimistic because there is always a chance. I hope everyone hears the news they are hoping for and wish everyone the best of luck!👍
 
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it's crazy to think about. At the same time, I wonder how many of those total apps get thrown out for not meeting the minimum requirements? I wonder how many apps make it through that initial weed-out period. I can't even describe how good it feels to have a seat somewhere...like the biggest weight off my shoulders. Good luck to everyone.
 
i for one questioned, what happens if....
thank you god i didnt have to answer that.
 
nicolej5 said:
it's crazy to think about. At the same time, I wonder how many of those total apps get thrown out for not meeting the minimum requirements? I wonder how many apps make it through that initial weed-out period. I can't even describe how good it feels to have a seat somewhere...like the biggest weight off my shoulders. Good luck to everyone.
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One of my classmates does work study in the front office and takes part in organizing new applications. He said there are tons of applications that don't even get looked at because they are missing portions, don't have requirements, something comes in late, they don't meet the minimum GPA requirement, etc. So, the number of applications that faculty actually look at is probably nothing in comparison to the actual number of applicants haha. Boggles my mind that students can be so careless about their applications though.
 
dizzy88 said:
One of my classmates does work study in the front office and takes part in organizing new applications. He said there are tons of applications that don't even get looked at because they are missing portions, don't have requirements, something comes in late, they don't meet the minimum GPA requirement, etc. So, the number of applications that faculty actually look at is probably nothing in comparison to the actual number of applicants haha. Boggles my mind that students can be so careless about their applications though.
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Yea I figured haha. Me neither, it's completely unacceptable to apply to a graduate level program when you are missing portions of your application or if you aren't within a reasonable range of their gre/gpa requirement. Why waste their time?
 
Just trying to think about this from a supply/demand view. If the competitiveness is coming from the side of the applicants then won't schools themselves become less competitive?, like for instance by increasing the size of their classes because of the increase in number of applicants who have good stats. Not sure how that helps those with low stats but it seems like schools themselves should accommodate to the increase of applicants with high stats or even just the number of applicants for that matter. If PTs are really in demand, it wouldn't make sense for schools to try to create a bottleneck in the market right?
 
I would counter supply/demand with "barrier of entry". The responsible schools have to maintain a level of competitiveness to retain the value of the degree. They also have to ensure that they do not contribute to the over saturation of the field. My program will be shrinking in the coming years - we have been accepting too many qualified students in the recent years. More than the program is intended for.

There will always be competitive applicants, whether all are extended an invite for matriculation or not.

Unfortunately, over saturation will be a problem for our field. Hopefully, we won't fall into the same issue as other health professions where this will contribute to declining salaries and available positions. I go and read the OD threads to make myself feel better after thinking about these things. Cause, they got it bad...
 
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pubicsymphysis said:
Whats happing with the OD? Or you can send me a link.
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Costco, Wal-Mart and Coastal.com happened. Just read through the OD forum. Don't worry, they won't bite, yet. Regionally - mostly top urban centers - nursing and pharmacy have also been experiencing such saturations. No one wants to move into more rural areas. Take for example, the SF Bay Area is extremely competitive for jobs, while Turlock, CA (or Turdlock) will take you in a heart beat.
 
Also worth noting, this is one of the first years where other programs like law schools have seen a pretty significant decline in applications. People are gravitating towards fields where they know the jobs will be.
 
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The schools on the west coast are so impacted! In California, everywhere seems to be filled with tons of applicants, but again, I am surprised because quite a few do not have all of the pre-reqs in order or GPA requirements. But got to admire the effort! My GRE is below some of the schools requirements I applied to but wanted to give it a shot! Hope I get in this round though, don't want to wait another year! Whatever happens will happen though
 
you haven't even heard back from more than half the schools you applied to...
 
dalingil said:
Yes it is true I have not heard back from many of the schools I have applied to but when you take a closer look at the schools I have applied to it does not look good. For instance Temple has already done several rounds of interviews and their web site says they normally fill the class by mid January, UNLV has a class size of 30 of which only 15 seats are for out of state applicants (not great odds). Duke... there is no way my stats are good enough. Chapman has 1300 apps this year. University of Washington's average accepted gpa and gre scores are way better than what mine are at... and it sounds like the average accepted stats are only going to get better. Perhaps I am being pessimistic but in my opinion I am just being realistic.
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I have to ask- why did you apply to those schools?? You just said your stats aren't on par with Duke and U of W. Not trying to be rude, but why apply to schools that you don't think you have a shot at? You are making an excuse at every school for why you won't get in. Until you get a rejection letter you have a chance at least.
 
nicolej5 said:
I have to ask- why did you apply to those schools?? You just said your stats aren't on par with Duke and U of W. Not trying to be rude, but why apply to schools that you don't think you have a shot at? You are making an excuse at every school for why you won't get in. Until you get a rejection letter you have a chance at least.
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True! I applied to 12 schools. i went in with a 2-8-2 plan. 2 above my stats - 8 schools within my stats - 2 backup schools. I just received 1 rejection and 4 interviews. I know this PT process is very competitive so I had to do my research and apply smart. No news is good news for me. Although Touro has half there seats full, that still means the other half is still open. I am sure you will receive some good news. Be Strong! We are all waiting anxiously! 🙂
 
Ya keep up the faith. It ain't over til it's over. I applied to a dream school, one I felt I had a good shot, and then a couple of programs I feel like I am on par with. Don't get down so easy. Whatever happens will, and then you will have to make your next move forward. Good luck!
 
adh28 said:
Ya keep up the faith. It ain't over til it's over. I applied to a dream school, one I felt I had a good shot, and then a couple of programs I feel like I am on par with. Don't get down so easy. Whatever happens will, and then you will have to make your next move forward. Good luck!
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Great words👍
 
Maybe you should concentrate on schools that might not get the high percentage of applications. My daughter has her acceptance to Wayne State and I think she told me they only got 120 applications. At the interview they told her that they get a bad rap for being in the heart of Detroit, but she was very impressed with their program and loved the staff. She is wait-listed at 2 other schools in Michigan, so she's still waiting on those yet. Don't write a school off because they aren't ranked super high or because they aren't in the most desirable location. I really think every program is what you make it to be. There are schools out there that aren't getting the high number of applications you are describing, you just have to find them.
 
I'm in PT school and that's a miracle itself. I should not have been accepted when I compare myself to my classmates. They had more pertinent majors, experiences as aides or techs, and had better resumes and histories than I did. Sometimes I wonder how my school accepted me, but they something in me that made them think I was qualified to be in the program. You have a shot. It's not over until it's over.

Kevin
 
I got into my top choice. And when I applied, I must have applied to over 15 schools hoping and expecting for just one school would interview me and maybe accept me. my gre scores were low, I took a couple repeated class A&p, I had a couple C's I didnt have time nor $ to retake. I took two years off to work, my grades were inconsistent due to my good and bad years in undergrad. And I thought my interview went horrible..so i must have given myself a .1% of getting in to my top school BC of all that and BC their min requirement of at least a b and average gre scores were higher then mine. But i applied anyway, BC only worse case scenario would be a rejection.
 
NewTestament said:
I'm in PT school and that's a miracle itself. I should not have been accepted when I compare myself to my classmates. They had more pertinent majors, experiences as aides or techs, and had better resumes and histories than I did. Sometimes I wonder how my school accepted me, but they something in me that made them think I was qualified to be in the program. You have a shot. It's not over until it's over.

Kevin
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If this was a facebook status, I would "like" it.

Of course, the numbers have to be there, but I'm finding that more and more of these schools care a lot about interviews and essays and recommendations. Stats are only a starting point. It seems to me that you make it into the pool if you have numbers, you get accepted if you have the intangible things (working with people, a desire to learn, a strong attitude, an intelligent perspective, etc.).

Obviously, there are exceptions but I think having low numbers definitely does not mean you aren't in the race.
 
NewTestament said:
I'm in PT school and that's a miracle itself. I should not have been accepted when I compare myself to my classmates. They had more pertinent majors, experiences as aides or techs, and had better resumes and histories than I did. Sometimes I wonder how my school accepted me, but they something in me that made them think I was qualified to be in the program. You have a shot. It's not over until it's over.

Kevin
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I'm still trying to figure out how I'm in PT school myself. IMO, I'm surrounded by some great talent. The only thing I'd say is different from our situation is that as a career changer, my resume isn't that bad 😛
 
I am a PT faculty member and admissions committee member. I would totally agree with the statement by RU13. Your GPA gets you in the door for an interview. The interview gets you in the program. You will likely have questions about the Physical Therapy profession during your interview. The more you make of your observation experiences, the better you will be able to answer the questions.

BTW, some information on applications to my school (small school in the middle of nowhere). Our pre-req GPA is different from the PTCAS pre-req GPA. We do not differentiate between in-state and out-of-state applicants. We give a bonus to students from our undergraduate school

Applications as of today: 348
Applications which DO NOT meet our minumum criteria (they have a pre-req GPA < 3.0): 111
Applications which meet our minimum criteria (pre-req GPA => 3.0: 237
About half of these applicants will be invited for an interview (GPA => 3.45)

So, 1/3 not qualified
1/3 qualified but not invited
1/3 qualified and invited for interview

The interview is 30% of the factors we look at.


RU13 said:
If this was a facebook status, I would "like" it.

Of course, the numbers have to be there, but I'm finding that more and more of these schools care a lot about interviews and essays and recommendations. Stats are only a starting point. It seems to me that you make it into the pool if you have numbers, you get accepted if you have the intangible things (working with people, a desire to learn, a strong attitude, an intelligent perspective, etc.).

Obviously, there are exceptions but I think having low numbers definitely does not mean you aren't in the race.
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I think it is sad how competitive it is. They are accepting people with 3.9 GPAs and "stellar" statistics, who might actually suck at working with people. I think all schools should to interviews.
 
ESsports said:
I think it is sad how competitive it is. They are accepting people with 3.9 GPAs and "stellar" statistics, who might actually suck at working with people. I think all schools should to interviews.
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Accepting applicants based on GPA, scores, and academics alone is a terrible way to determine who can work in the clinic and who can't. It's one thing to do well academically in the classroom but quite another to communicate with patients, be creative, apply your knowledge, review literature on a consistent basis, and to use hand skills in the clinic. Don't feel bad if a really academic program rejects you based on grades. Enthusiasm, humility, and attitude are far better indicators of success in the clinic than grades.

Kevin
 
IDK, even without an interview, your personal statement, work experience and LoR should give a large indication of who you are when compared with those stats + interview. If an applicant isn't receiving interview invites or wait list statuses, I'd be more inclined to review my application to see where I went wrong (though I'd wait until the cycle is over). How was my personal statement - did it stand out? Did I fulfill minimum requirements? Was my LoR positive? Did I not strategize the list of schools to apply to?
 
One of the programs where I have been accepted, TWU, doesn't do interviews, and they said that the reason was that research has shown interviews to not be a good predictor of success in the program. They said that they don't want interviewers to subconsciously give good interview scores to applicants who are more like themselves, or have personalities that they like. They think that without interviews, they are more likely to have a student body with a greater variety of backgrounds, personalities, and life experiences.
 
okramango said:
One of the programs where I have been accepted, TWU, doesn't do interviews, and they said that the reason was that research has shown interviews to not be a good predictor of success in the program. They said that they don't want interviewers to subconsciously give good interview scores to applicants who are more like themselves, or have personalities that they like. They think that without interviews, they are more likely to have a student body with a greater variety of backgrounds, personalities, and life experiences.
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interesting. makes sense.
 
My school does interviews, and they are 30% of the evaluative criteria. The rest is currently GPA. We currently do not require the GRE. Research done by one of our faculty has also shown that the interview is not a good predictor of success in PT school. Part of the reason is to identify applicants with limited interpersonal skills. We have some students who were on the low range of GPA who are in our program because of the interview.

As PT admission gets more competitive with regard to pre-requisite GPA, the interview or personal statement may become even more important. If a person with a 4.0 GPA has a poor interview, he or she may still be accepted before a person with a 3.4 GPA. However, if the other person has a 3.9 GPA, the person with the lower GPA may be accepted first.
 
As a hopeful future PT, I have no problem with how competitive it is becoming to get into school. It's good for the profession. I don't want a watered down process with suboptimal students getting in. A competitive program will increase prestige and hopefully salary.
 
Listen, I'm not quit sure what's being said here. It seems that PT admissions has enjoyed its "glory" days for quite some time now (quite long enough, in my opinion) where students with less than stellar academic backgrounds could get accepted at any number of schools. Why is the move to higher, more rigorous academic standards unsettling? Of course interpersonal skills are necessary to be a good PT and the interview will continue to shed some light on that, but here's the thing. I'm absolutely flabbergasted by the number of people on this board who both call for more respect of the PT profession AND complain that the standards for PT school admission are getting too high. Part of elevating this profession in the eyes of our medical peers is, quite frankly, making it a whole lot tougher to be a PT. Why shouldn't PT be like so many other reasonably well-paying professions? I think, ultimately, it's a sense of entitlement originating from a long history of sub-stellar acceptances that motivates these sorts of complaints.

One parting thought: nowhere in the world are PTs better compensated for their efforts than here in the US. Hell, that's why a lot of us think PT is a viable career choice at all. A well-paying profession should have a high barrier to entry. It's as simple as that. God knows there are more poorly paying jobs that are much more competitive.

If you want to be a PT, this is the price of admission and I think it's a very reasonable price at that.
 
rockstudy said:
Acceptance to DPT schools gets tougher every year. From the number of applications programs are getting and the stats that accepted students are posting, this cycle is by far the most competitive ever. Unless you have a steller appllication, one should be grateful for any acceptence. For those who end up with some choices, count your blessings and don't take it lightly. There are going to be some good applicants who don't get into a program this year. Best of Luck to everyone !
Click to expand...

Welcome to the field of the health professions. In the world of pre meds/dents, nearly every school we apply to gets between 2000-4000 applications and usually only for 50-100 seats. In every health profession, there are good applicants that don't get in every year. That is just the way it is. In fact, i know in dental applications now, every year of all those applying, 40% are reapplicants (applied more than once).

Nailey13 said:
Listen, I'm not quit sure what's being said here. It seems that PT admissions has enjoyed its "glory" days for quite some time now (quite long enough, in my opinion) where students with less than stellar academic backgrounds could get accepted at any number of schools. Why is the move to higher, more rigorous academic standards unsettling? Of course interpersonal skills are necessary to be a good PT and the interview will continue to shed some light on that, but here's the thing. I'm absolutely flabbergasted by the number of people on this board who both call for more respect of the PT profession AND complain that the standards for PT school admission are getting too high. Part of elevating this profession in the eyes of our medical peers is, quite frankly, making it a whole lot tougher to be a PT. Why shouldn't PT be like so many other reasonably well-paying professions? I think, ultimately, it's a sense of entitlement originating from a long history of sub-stellar acceptances that motivates these sorts of complaints.

One parting thought: nowhere in the world are PTs better compensated for their efforts than here in the US. Hell, that's why a lot of us think PT is a viable career choice at all. A well-paying profession should have a high barrier to entry. It's as simple as that. God knows there are more poorly paying jobs that are much more competitive.

If you want to be a PT, this is the price of admission and I think it's a very reasonable price at that.
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👍 x 100

I couldn't have said it better myself. PT as a profession has been striving for respect and parity with other health professions for a long time now and rightfully so, given PTs training and education. The movement and transition to get the DPT as the standard degree has been a long and arduous task. Yet, you want to stand back and continue to let the admission standards be subpar?

You owe it to the future of your profession to strive for high admission standards. Furthermore, you owe it to your future patients to obtain the highest marks possible in both undergrad and PT school.

NewTestament said:
Accepting applicants based on GPA, scores, and academics alone is a terrible way to determine who can work in the clinic and who can't. It's one thing to do well academically in the classroom but quite another to communicate with patients, be creative, apply your knowledge, review literature on a consistent basis, and to use hand skills in the clinic. Don't feel bad if a really academic program rejects you based on grades. Enthusiasm, humility, and attitude are far better indicators of success in the clinic than grades.
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Although those characteristics indicate future success, they do not indicate whether or not one has the academic capacity to pass their PT classes or the national boards. Those are both very important things!! You can have the most positive attitude, best communication skills, and possess more compassion than Mother Theressa, but if you can't pass your DPT program or boards, it will not matter.

The truth is, not everyone can be a physician, PT, dentist, pharmacist, etc. You need to prove yourself in the classroom. Again, this only makes sense... we should need to be academically successful to treat our future patients. They deserve it.

Sorry to post in your forum, this thread was trending on my SDN mobile app, so i thought i would post my 2 cents.
 
UltimateHombre said:
Welcome to the field of the health professions. In the world of pre meds/dents, nearly every school we apply to gets between 2000-4000 applications and usually only for 50-100 seats. In every health profession, there are good applicants that don't get in every year. That is just the way it is. In fact, i know in dental applications now, every year of all those applying, 40% are reapplicants (applied more than once).

When I started this thread I did not intend for my post to be interpreted as a complaint with the admissions process. This is not to say that those who have posted complaints are wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I guess that's what this forum is all about. I was just stating what everyone already knows. ...Each year it gets tougher to get into PT school. I agree this is nothing new and is true of all Health Professions. For those of you who don't get into your first choice but do get an acceptence, at least you made it in. Be thankful that you did. If you don't get in this year, try to find out your weaknesses, strengthen where you can and apply again next cycle.
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All programs want to select the best applicants. 'Best' involves many different factors, including strength of interest in PT, academic ability to both learn new information and integrate that information to provide the best care for a patient, ability to pass standardized tests so they will pass the NPTE, interpersonal communication, working well with others, being a good educator, having good hand skills, empathy, and PT interests in line with the school. There are only a limited number of ways to assess all of these factors.

Objectively, there are undergraduate and pre-requisite GPAs and the GRE. GPA can also be affected by the school attended, but how do you compare grades from a school like MIT to grades from a school you know nothing about.

Subjectively, there are evaluations done by people outside the school: LOR, essays, evaluations during observation hours. There are also evaluations done by people from the school, primarily the interview.

Each school will evaluate their applicants in their own way. Yes, PT school is becoming more competitive. At my school, the minimum GPA in order to be offered an interview has increased by 0.1 compared to last year. And there are studies that show that the best predictor of getting good grades in PT school (an indicator of learning) is good grades in undergraduate courses. But I have met applicants with high GPAs who will not make it through PT school or if they do, they will not be as good a therapist as their grades would indicate. And there are students out there with relatively low GPA's, who could potentially be leaders in the field. The difficulty is identifying both groups.

All schools want to accept the best applicants who will be the best PTs, but it is not always clear who those applicants are.
 
Myself personally don't really agree with the interview process. How are you supposed to determine who a person is by spending 20-30 minutes with them? Not to mention these interviews are extremely nerve wrecking. Myself personally am not the best at interviews and due to nerves I dont believe that the schools I've interviewed really got a good sense of the individual I am. I'd like my body of work that I have done in the past to be what school's are looking at, not an interview where everyone in the room has their business face on and is putting on a show which makes you feel unwelcomed.
 
jkaz1661 said:
Myself personally don't really agree with the interview process. How are you supposed to determine who a person is by spending 20-30 minutes with them? Not to mention these interviews are extremely nerve wrecking. Myself personally am not the best at interviews and due to nerves I dont believe that the schools I've interviewed really got a good sense of the individual I am. I'd like my body of work that I have done in the past to be what school's are looking at, not an interview where everyone in the room has their business face on and is putting on a show which makes you feel unwelcomed.
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you'd better get familiar and comfortable with interviews, you'll need that skill if you plan to get a job after graduation 😀 just say from the beginning that you're a little nervous, there's nothing wrong with being nervous. It's a huge step in your life and admissions people get that. I personally like interviews. I think you can put a name to a face and see who the person really is. A lot of people are good at bs'ing over the internet and in applications (using big words to sound sophisticated, etc). I think interviews give you a chance to put your money where your mouth is so to speak. If you owned a company and were looking to hire someone, would you do so without an interview? Not likely. I think you get to see a person's personality and interpersonal skills really come out in interviews. Sure they may say that they have great skills on an app...but do they really when it comes down to it? If you say that interviewers didn't get a sense of who you were, you're partly to blame.
 
jkaz1661 said:
Myself personally don't really agree with the interview process. How are you supposed to determine who a person is by spending 20-30 minutes with them? Not to mention these interviews are extremely nerve wrecking. Myself personally am not the best at interviews and due to nerves I dont believe that the schools I've interviewed really got a good sense of the individual I am. I'd like my body of work that I have done in the past to be what school's are looking at, not an interview where everyone in the room has their business face on and is putting on a show which makes you feel unwelcomed.
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Don't be nervous. When I'm nervous, I stop being nervous, and become awesome instead.
 
Nailey13 said:
I'm absolutely flabbergasted by the number of people on this board who both call for more respect of the PT profession AND complain that the standards for PT school admission are getting too high. Part of elevating this profession in the eyes of our medical peers is, quite frankly, making it a whole lot tougher to be a PT. Why shouldn't PT be like so many other reasonably well-paying professions? I think, ultimately, it's a sense of entitlement originating from a long history of sub-stellar acceptances that motivates these sorts of complaints.
.
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I don't think anyone here, including me, is calling for PT schools to lower their standards so it is easier to get accepted. My point was that schools shouldn't look at academics alone in making their decision. Academics are an important part of the application process, because they do indicate the determination, discipline, and work ethic of the student. Ultimately that student has to pass every class and pass the NPTE after graduation. I wish schools took a holistic approach to the process. Maybe they do, but there are instances on this board where an applicant has an overall great application, but can't get accepted because his GPA is .1 points less than the recommended GPA. Conversely, I hope students who have great grades, but poor writing skills, get rejected. If you can't express yourself on paper or in person, you have no right to be in PT school.

I also agree that schools should rethink the whole interview process. These interviews are expensive. A plane ticket, a hotel, and a rental car can cost several hundred dollars. Don't forget the time off from school or work. If a school requires a personal interview for admission, then greater weight should be placed on the interview. Why can't they do phone interviews? What is so important about seeing the applicant for 15 minutes in person? The tours, the Q&A with the students, and meeting the students is all very nice, but it is not worth it. It's almost like they're disqualifying people who can't afford to come visit the school.

Kevin
 
A GPA cutoff is called a cutoff for a reason. Admissions boards are faced with a very difficult prospect. Each year, someone is bound to fall just on the other side of the line. And in reality, we don't know exactly what led to the rejections of some of the people who post on these boards.

And it may cost quite a bit of money to travel to an interview and realistically that interview could probably be done via Skype (high paying jobs around the world do it all the time). That said, I stand by what I said (especially the part after you quoted). PT's are well recompensed for their efforts after graduation. If a higher cost to interview is the price to play, then so be it.

Your argument about cost is a bit like someone who's uncomfortable with the fact that they have to take on undergraduate debt at all to finance their dream of having a middle-class profession. And there are plenty of people who take on debt without even knowing what they're studying for.

Paying for the prospect of having a profession you love and making more money down the line is what education around the world is all about.
 
HughLee said:
My school does interviews, and they are 30% of the evaluative criteria. The rest is currently GPA. We currently do not require the GRE. Research done by one of our faculty has also shown that the interview is not a good predictor of success in PT school. Part of the reason is to identify applicants with limited interpersonal skills. We have some students who were on the low range of GPA who are in our program because of the interview.

As PT admission gets more competitive with regard to pre-requisite GPA, the interview or personal statement may become even more important. If a person with a 4.0 GPA has a poor interview, he or she may still be accepted before a person with a 3.4 GPA. However, if the other person has a 3.9 GPA, the person with the lower GPA may be accepted first.
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This is great information and very much appreciated.
Does your school give any considerstion to LOR, Essays, Volunteer/Observation or are only GPA and Interview considered ?
 
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