F on transcript...what to do?

[MCATphobic]

---

Members don't see this ad.

A few years ago, I took a difficult chemistry class over the summer. I had made a bunch of complicated mnemonics for the final to help me keep track of all the reactions and, before the final started, I wrote these mnemonics down on the back of the test before I would forget them. The professor happened to walk by and saw I was writing on the test before we were supposed to begin. He proceeded to rip up my test and gave me an F on it, resulting in me failing the class with an F grade. I felt really dumb because I knew it wasn't worth failing a class for the extra 2-3 minutes on the final.

The professor told me at the time that he failed me for cheating. I signed a nondisclosure statement. Basically, this form could not be pulled up by anyone unless I were to cheat again in college. I was willing to sign the statement at the time because he told me I could just retake the class and replace my old grade and my GPA would not be affected. Now, I've been looking at how the AMCAs application works, and I see that I have to put down both my old grade, the F, and my new grade, which is a B+. Now I can't really do anything about the old grade, and can't argue about it because it's been 2-3 years already and the professor no longer teaches at our school (he was fired...)

1) I was wondering how I could explain this F on my transcript. I heard it's not a good idea to lie to medical schools, but my admission chances would be extremely low if I told them that I cheated in college, regardless of the circumstances.
2) There is a part on the application that asks about if we come under any academic probation. I do not think my case qualifies as academic probation, but was wondering if anyone has experience or thoughts about this?
3) Will medical schools go to the extent of finding the professor and asking him why I received the F? I don't want interviewers asking me about the grade knowing that the professor said I cheated.

I'm applying to medical school next year. Thanks!

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Hhmmm, I wouldn't have accepted the F for cheating in the first place. However, since you did, and you do NOT have anything on your academic record stating you cheated, put down the F, and the B+ and if it's your only one, don't sweat it. 4cr of F replaced by 4cr of B+ will not make a huge impact once you have 120-180 credits

 

[gettheleadout]

Did you realize you weren't allowed to write on the test when you did? This is important because it characterizes your intentions.

 

[MCATphobic]

It's true I knew we weren't supposed to write on the test before they said we could start. I thought that meant we couldn't start on the test itself but writing information on the back of the test had always been a gray area for me. I've made sure not to do that for all my other tests in college.

Did you realize you weren't allowed to write on the test when you did? This is important because it characterizes your intentions.

 

[MCATphobic]

Thanks for the quick response. The issue is when medical schools ask the reason behind the failed grade, should I just say the class was hard or should I admit to "cheating" as it is?

Hhmmm, I wouldn't have accepted the F for cheating in the first place. However, since you did, and you do NOT have anything on your academic record stating you cheated, put down the F, and the B+ and if it's your only one, don't sweat it. 4cr of F replaced by 4cr of B+ will not make a huge impact once you have 120-180 credits

 

[Chip Chipperson]

You couldn't wait three or four more minutes and then write down the mechanisms? It was really just going to vanish from your memory in that short time period?

That being said, I don't feel that what you did was academically dishonest - it was just really silly and short-sighted of you to not consider how the professor would perceive your actions.

Good luck getting it taken care of, because you don't deserve this scar.

 

[MCATphobic]

In hindsight, I know it was really silly of me and definitely not worth it. But at the time I felt like I was going to forget everything before the test since I sort of crammed for it the day before/day of and I didn't think about anything else except doing well on the test. As they say, hindsight is 20/20..

You couldn't wait three or four more minutes and then write down the mechanisms? It was really just going to vanish from your memory in that short time period?

That being said, I don't feel that what you did was academically dishonest - it was just really silly and short-sighted of you to not consider how the professor would perceive your actions.

Good luck getting it taken care of, because you don't deserve this scar.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

You're right. It's easy for me to sit back and rationally analyze your situation and be judgmental, but I wasn't there or in your emotional state.

Actually, I could picture myself doing something like that. I can be rather impulsive and careless at times (stupid).

If anything positive can come form this, know that some random guy on the internet may have learned a valuable lesson from what you've shared.

I bet that after this incident you became an even better student than before, am I right?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Sounds like the professor is a total dick, and you could have fought this better than taking an F.

If they ask you to explain the F and you say you cheated or this story, you'll be in a world of hurt. Just look at the responses you're getting. It seems that saying it was a one time hard class is getting better feedback than the alternative. But let me make clear I'm not encouraging or suggesting you to lie. It's an alternative you brought up, and I'm pointing out the obvious reactions to each statement.

 

[gettheleadout]

It's true I knew we weren't supposed to write on the test before they said we could start. I thought that meant we couldn't start on the test itself but writing information on the back of the test had always been a gray area for me. I've made sure not to do that for all my other tests in college.

I would explain what really happened then and say this. You made a mistake and learned to be less careless, moved on, and learned from it.

 

[Chamahk]

I got two F's back-to-back (re-takes) in a pre-req (serious). there's still hope..... right? 😳

 

[gettheleadout]

I got two F's back-to-back (re-takes) in a pre-req (serious). there's still hope..... right? 😳

Is your GPA still salvageable? (Was this like a 6-credit physics course or a 3-credit bio course?) Have you retaken and gotten an A? Can you get your GPA above a 3.0 and would you be willing to do an SMP?

Honestly, my opinion is that there are very few things that make it absolutely impossible to get into medical school (felony, IA's, etc...) and grade screw-ups are rarely included (though two F's in a row in the same course is pretty bad, I don't want to understate that.)

As far as DO goes, I have no idea how AACOMAS handles multiple retakes with regard to their grade replacement policy.

 

[AestheticGod]

Is your GPA still salvageable? (Was this like a 6-credit physics course or a 3-credit bio course?) Have you retaken and gotten an A? Can you get your GPA above a 3.0 and would you be willing to do an SMP?

Honestly, my opinion is that there are very few things that make it absolutely impossible to get into medical school (felony, IA's, etc...) and grade screw-ups are rarely included (though two F's in a row in the same course is pretty bad, I don't want to understate that.)

As far as DO goes, I have no idea how AACOMAS handles multiple retakes with regard to their grade replacement policy.

Just wondering, what's SMP?

 

[pancakesyrup]

Is your GPA still salvageable? (Was this like a 6-credit physics course or a 3-credit bio course?) Have you retaken and gotten an A? Can you get your GPA above a 3.0 and would you be willing to do an SMP?

Honestly, my opinion is that there are very few things that make it absolutely impossible to get into medical school (felony, IA's, etc...) and grade screw-ups are rarely included (though two F's in a row in the same course is pretty bad, I don't want to understate that.)

As far as DO goes, I have no idea how AACOMAS handles multiple retakes with regard to their grade replacement policy.

AACOMAS counts only the most recent grade, regardless of the number of retakes.

 

[rawkfist]

Quick question: If i failed a class in one school but wanted to retake it again at the school I just transferred to, will AMCAS grade separately or together? The failed class is a 3 hr class but the other school offers it as a 4 hr class. Its Cal 2.

 

[pancakesyrup]

Quick question: If i failed a class in one school but wanted to retake it again at the school I just transferred to, will AMCAS grade separately or together? The failed class is a 3 hr class but the other school offers it as a 4 hr class. Its Cal 2.

AMCAS grades every class seperately.

 

[rawkfist]

not the average?

 

[Chamahk]

Is your GPA still salvageable? (Was this like a 6-credit physics course or a 3-credit bio course?) Have you retaken and gotten an A? Can you get your GPA above a 3.0 and would you be willing to do an SMP?

I've been told IT IS salvageable. I'm at a 2.10 right now. Taking a winter course (on track to getting an A) which should put me at a 2.3+ After the Spring semester, I should be close to 3.0. planning to take courses all summer long so 3.2 - 3.4 after summer sessions.

The class was Chem I (4 credits). I need to re-take it. planning on transferring schools, re-taking the class in the summer.

I've done the following pre-reqs:
Chem I: W, F, F
Bio I: D
Bio II: C (not sure about re-taking this)

I'm not taking any pre-reqs in the Spring. I'm addressing and dealing with the reason why my Chem I grades are like that. I'm doing 18 credits to try and boost GPA. By the summer, I would have dealt with my "problems" and believe I can successfully re-take and pass Bio I and Chem I with B+ or higher.

I believe I can definitely get my GPA above 3.0, and I have come up with a plan for doing exactly that. After thinking things through and talking to my parents, I'm all down for D.O. school, out of country med school, SMP, post-bacc, etc.,

Whatever it takes.

 

[mauberley]

not the average?

It essentially works out to be the average.

 

[varsityblue]

I would explain what really happened then and say this. You made a mistake and learned to be less careless, moved on, and learned from it.

+1. If you can't petition it off of your record, I think it'd be in your best interest to write a short statement in the additional information section where you express a level of culpability and to request that your letter writers address the incident.

 

[gettheleadout]

Just wondering, what's SMP?

Special Master's Program. These are short programs conferring a degree like "Masters in Medical Sciences" or something of that sort. Students typically take classes alongside first year medical students, and as such these programs are used a last ditch effort to demonstrate academic aptitude sufficient enough to perform at the required level in medical school. In general, medical schools will view a high SMP GPA positively in response to a low undergrad GPA, though both are taken into consideration. Some SMP programs (which are sometimes called by different acronyms/names) boast very high acceptance rates of their students into medical directly upon completion, and act somewhat as feeder programs into their institution's associated medical school (Tulane's ACP is a good example.)

SMP's are generally very expensive, and should be used only as a last resort. Recommendations are to get a 3.8+ SMP GPA, and poor performance in an SMP is even worse than poor performance in undergrad; it's a virtual guarantee that you don't have what it takes to make it in medical school, since you've essentially already tried.

AACOMAS counts only the most recent grade, regardless of the number of retakes.

Interesting, so in theory you can't permanently lose your 4.0 if you're applying DO.

I've been told IT IS salvageable. I'm at a 2.10 right now. Taking a winter course (on track to getting an A) which should put me at a 2.3+ After the Spring semester, I should be close to 3.0. planning to take courses all summer long so 3.2 - 3.4 after summer sessions.

The class was Chem I (4 credits). I need to re-take it. planning on transferring schools, re-taking the class in the summer.

I've done the following pre-reqs:
Chem I: W, F, F
Bio I: D
Bio II: C (not sure about re-taking this)

I'm not taking any pre-reqs in the Spring. I'm addressing and dealing with the reason why my Chem I grades are like that. I'm doing 18 credits to try and boost GPA. By the summer, I would have dealt with my "problems" and believe I can successfully re-take and pass Bio I and Chem I with B+ or higher.

I believe I can definitely get my GPA above 3.0, and I have come up with a plan for doing exactly that. After thinking things through and talking to my parents, I'm all down for D.O. school, out of country med school, SMP, post-bacc, etc.,

Whatever it takes.

Not that I feel this needs to be belabored to you, but you really, really need to try and get an A in Chem I and Bio I the next time you retake.

Also, based on admissions, class, and residency Match statistics, and financial and logistical concerns, I would argue you're better off taking whatever additional years necessary to get into a DO school here in the States than taking a chance at going to the Caribbean or elsewhere abroad. Personal opinion: Don't even consider offshore schools a last resort.

It essentially works out to be the average.

I think the confusion stems from the "averaged" grade point value for the course being weighted as the sum of the units from the original and the retake.

+1. If you can't petition it off of your record, I think it'd be in your best interest to write a short statement in the additional information section where you express a level of culpability and to request that your letter writers address the incident.

More than one person lately has made reference to such a section, but I've looked through the AMCAS application and I don't know that any such field exists. Unless there's a section I've missed, I can only imagine bringing this up either directly in the Personal Statement (which might be out of place and, as LizzyM would say, drawing attention to a zit) or in a secondary which specifically contained a prompt for such additional info (and as such this could only be provided to certain schools.)

 

[kpcrew]

That's pretty ridiculous, I'd try taking it up with the dean. I've written down equations on exam papers from memory when the test was beginning and I suspect that many other people have done so as well. The problem is that it's been so long, so I'm not sure how much success you will have. Good luck.

 

[SitraAchra]

I've been told IT IS salvageable. I'm at a 2.10 right now. Taking a winter course (on track to getting an A) which should put me at a 2.3+ After the Spring semester, I should be close to 3.0. planning to take courses all summer long so 3.2 - 3.4 after summer sessions.

The class was Chem I (4 credits). I need to re-take it. planning on transferring schools, re-taking the class in the summer.

I've done the following pre-reqs:
Chem I: W, F, F
Bio I: D
Bio II: C (not sure about re-taking this)

I'm not taking any pre-reqs in the Spring. I'm addressing and dealing with the reason why my Chem I grades are like that. I'm doing 18 credits to try and boost GPA. By the summer, I would have dealt with my "problems" and believe I can successfully re-take and pass Bio I and Chem I with B+ or higher.

I believe I can definitely get my GPA above 3.0, and I have come up with a plan for doing exactly that. After thinking things through and talking to my parents, I'm all down for D.O. school, out of country med school, SMP, post-bacc, etc.,

Whatever it takes.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

The solution here isn't necessarily taking more credits. You have to be extremely selective in what you take and when you take it. You are at an extreme disadvantage to the point where you basically need a great reason for the initial double failure, and also need nothing but A's at this point.

There has to be some extreme barriers between you and good study habits for this to fly, and those need to be fully addressed. Don't let anyone here sweet talk you, are a minimum of all As and occasional B, plus a flawless masters or post-bacc away from contention, DO or otherwise.

That doesn't mean it's out of reach, but brother this will be the fight of your life

successful thread hijack btw

 

[LifeTake2]

I've been told IT IS salvageable. I'm at a 2.10 right now. Taking a winter course (on track to getting an A) which should put me at a 2.3+ After the Spring semester, I should be close to 3.0. planning to take courses all summer long so 3.2 - 3.4 after summer sessions.

The class was Chem I (4 credits). I need to re-take it. planning on transferring schools, re-taking the class in the summer.

I've done the following pre-reqs:
Chem I: W, F, F
Bio I: D
Bio II: C (not sure about re-taking this)

I'm not taking any pre-reqs in the Spring. I'm addressing and dealing with the reason why my Chem I grades are like that. I'm doing 18 credits to try and boost GPA. By the summer, I would have dealt with my "problems" and believe I can successfully re-take and pass Bio I and Chem I with B+ or higher.

I believe I can definitely get my GPA above 3.0, and I have come up with a plan for doing exactly that. After thinking things through and talking to my parents, I'm all down for D.O. school, out of country med school, SMP, post-bacc, etc.,

Whatever it takes.

To put it nicely whoever told you it was salvageable was trying to be nice.

You MUST retake both Bio classes, you have get an A in Chem 1 as well as 3 more Chem classes that are going to be harder than Chem 1.

You then must also do well in 2 semesters of Physics.

Then you need to deal with the fact that you don't move a 2.1 to a 3+ as easily as you think. You will NOT be able to move a 2.1 to a 3.0 in one semester. About the best you could do with all A's would be a 2.4-2.5 MAX. I'd suggest you get someone to help model your GPA potential in excel if you are not sure (if you want to PM me your current credit hours & GPA I'll email you a spreadsheet you can use to forecast what different scenarios do for you).

I'm sorry if you don't like what I have to say but you need a reality check before you take another class and fail it.

You can still be a doctor but it won't happen at the pace you are going and it will be a LOT more work than you think it is going to be.

 

[deleted357625]

hey if it comes up in an interview explain it like you just did here no big deal man

 

[pdxjazz]

A few years ago, I took a difficult chemistry class over the summer. I had made a bunch of complicated mnemonics for the final to help me keep track of all the reactions and, before the final started, I wrote these mnemonics down on the back of the test before I would forget them. The professor happened to walk by and saw I was writing on the test before we were supposed to begin. He proceeded to rip up my test and gave me an F on it, resulting in me failing the class with an F grade. I felt really dumb because I knew it wasn't worth failing a class for the extra 2-3 minutes on the final.

The professor told me at the time that he failed me for cheating. I signed a nondisclosure statement. Basically, this form could not be pulled up by anyone unless I were to cheat again in college. I was willing to sign the statement at the time because he told me I could just retake the class and replace my old grade and my GPA would not be affected. Now, I've been looking at how the AMCAs application works, and I see that I have to put down both my old grade, the F, and my new grade, which is a B+. Now I can't really do anything about the old grade, and can't argue about it because it's been 2-3 years already and the professor no longer teaches at our school (he was fired...)

1) I was wondering how I could explain this F on my transcript. I heard it's not a good idea to lie to medical schools, but my admission chances would be extremely low if I told them that I cheated in college, regardless of the circumstances.
2) There is a part on the application that asks about if we come under any academic probation. I do not think my case qualifies as academic probation, but was wondering if anyone has experience or thoughts about this?
3) Will medical schools go to the extent of finding the professor and asking him why I received the F? I don't want interviewers asking me about the grade knowing that the professor said I cheated.

I'm applying to medical school next year. Thanks!

I would make an appointment with the Dean and discuss the situation, Let them know you are applying to medical school and the AMCAS application asks if you have ever had an "Institutional Action". If the Dean tells you they do not consider it to be one, I would not bring it up unless someone asks during a medical school interview, explain it was an honest mistake about the test rules and as such was not considered an institutional action by your school, and you were allowed to retake the course resulting in a B+.

If the Dean feels it was considered an institutional action, then you have the opportunity to briefly explain it on the AMCAS application. The last thing you need is for someone to find out that you lied on the AMCAS application by not listing the incident. Get it squared away now rather than worrying about it so you know where you stand.

 

[pancakesyrup]

To put it nicely whoever told you it was salvageable was trying to be nice.

You MUST retake both Bio classes, you have get an A in Chem 1 as well as 3 more Chem classes that are going to be harder than Chem 1.

You then must also do well in 2 semesters of Physics.

Then you need to deal with the fact that you don't move a 2.1 to a 3+ as easily as you think. You will NOT be able to move a 2.1 to a 3.0 in one semester. About the best you could do with all A's would be a 2.4-2.5 MAX. I'd suggest you get someone to help model your GPA potential in excel if you are not sure (if you want to PM me your current credit hours & GPA I'll email you a spreadsheet you can use to forecast what different scenarios do for you).

I'm sorry if you don't like what I have to say but you need a reality check before you take another class and fail it.

You can still be a doctor but it won't happen at the pace you are going and it will be a LOT more work than you think it is going to be.

First, it depends on how many credits the person has taken. A 2.1 after 30 credits is much easier to recover quickly than a 2.1 after 100+ credits.

Second, with AACOMAS grade replacement, a few retakes can rapidly improve someone's GPA if their goal is a DO school. Having said that, I think DO schools do get wary at someone who has had more than a few retakes done, but if that person can show the ability to thrive in a very difficult courseload of multiple 300+ level bio courses, I think it will look great.