facts about G.P.A

[Rossu]

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Hey Rossu you ought to be getting ur response soon from NYU. as you said it's just a month or two then u got to wait bcoz we have applied in the month of august and sept and have no gud newz and moreover, if you fail to get an admission this year you will make it up in the next year, if you have a decent score that's bcoz ur Gpa is just awesome so dont you worry jus have some patience and keep waitin ..

Hi I were already interviewed n now i m waitng for result.Its been more than a month i were interviewed.

 

[quest_life]

Same here Stelon, I have worked as a Faculty in a pvt college too, I have seent eh contrasts from my college (pvt college ) and the one I have worked in too....I agree that there are certain discrepancies in "SOME PVT Colleges " But lets not generalise that.

Sorry, that u cudnt get thro.....but dnt lose hope....Iam sure u will succeed...good luck.

Hi Want2fly, i dont want to criticize any private colleges in general , but what i had seen in my state private colleges , that i have mentioned. i had worked as a faculty in those colleges. anyway i dont want to emphasize much on such a topic.

Well, i had shown my exaggerated response, because i didnt get the admission with 87 and low gpa. May be i have to work hard and get 90 up score in part-I.

Guys, work hard, pray god, and one day you will get the success.

 

[cattooth]

Hi all,
I am glad to see the discussions about GPA. I do not have a good GPA from ECE either. I gave my exam on March 17, still waiting for the results to come.
I have some thoughts about the GPA as you do. I did my Master's in the United States with a GPA 3.65(was a honor student). But my dental school GPA from ECE back my home courtry is only 2.6. I was the second in the class with a graduation scores 88 though. We did not grade on curve at all and based on the absolute right answers you got for each exam if they were multiple choice questions. 60 out of 100 is considered pass. I remembered among over 150 graduates that year (medical and dental sudents all together, only two students got 3.20 GPA, they were honor students!!). Think about this, 6 years of Dental school(in fact med. school and dentistry program), at least 6 or 8 subjects across full 4 months each semester. There were core class and non-core. Come on, friends, think about this, how would you like to manage your time and energy to survive this six years? You spent more time on the core classes and let the noncores slide a bit! I looked back my curricuclum, most of my core classes(dental related) 90% are over 90. But the non-cores are a lots of 70s. It certainly draged your grades down. But the GPA did not matter because the graduation exam and overall clinic performance graded by the clinical hosptial speak a student's ability.

Bottom line, I agree the home country GPA graded by ECE should not be the only criteria to determine the admission or eliminated people from interview.
I am not Indian but I always wondered why so many indian studnets's GPA can be as high as 4.0( or 3.8, 3.9) for 4 year undergraduate study. It was a mistery to me before but now it explains!!
This GPA issue should be brought to the schools and ADA attentions so they can look at the applicant's background as a whole package to benefit all Foreign Trained Dentists who wanted to get into the advance standing program.

Best wishes to all of you and myself for fulfilling our dreams...

hi

No one here is blaming any school .Its just the information that we are trying to give to the schools that the marks obtained internationally can be used as a criteria in determining their eligibility in the application process but not in deciding the future of the applicant.
As we all know marks differ from one school to other school in India and it was expressed earlier that some schools in India are giving high internal averages without even conducting exams..I am sure many of us know that as a fact.
In this process ,many sincere hard working students are suffering.
Sirisara....for your kind information ,there are many students who scored more than 90 and with less g.p.a and just worrying about their future and I am talking on their behalf
.
Atleast pple like you, can improve the scores and will definitely get thru the admission,just because you have a good g.p.a if not this year...it will be the next year..you will get an admission

the main aim of this thread is just to bring to the notice of the schools that not all marks obtained internationally in some schools in India are genuine. I said it clearly that there is nothing to blame with the evaluation services or the schools..
We are just bringing some actual facts to them and Ultimately they are the persons who are to judge the goods and the bads
This is just an attempt to bring this to the notice of the schools and just a request for them to view this in a serious manner..

 

[rahmed]

ECE -- BU, NYU, UPENN, TEMPLE U (3.0), U FLORIDA, UCSF, U DETROIT M, SUNY BUFFALO (also accepts BERLITZ), UCLA (also accepts IERF), LLU (also accepts IERF & ACEI), U PITT (until this year did their own evaluation but may accept ECE for the coming cycle)

ECE / WES -- TUFT, COLUMBIA U, NSU, U MN, UoP, USC, UIC, U MICHIGAN & U COLORADO (last 2 school also accept AACRAO), SUNY STONY BROOK

EVALUATOR/S UNKNOWN/ NOT MENTIONED -- MARQUETTE U, CREIGHTON U, U CONN, CASE SCHOOL OF DENTAL MEDICINE

There must be couple of other schools out there hence any errors and omissions are regretted.

rahmed

 

[godbless]

ECE -- BU, NYU, UPENN, TEMPLE U (3.0), U FLORIDA, UCSF, U DETROIT M, SUNY BUFFALO (also accepts BERLITZ), UCLA (also accepts IERF), LLU (also accepts IERF & ACEI), U PITT (until this year did their own evaluation but may accept ECE for the coming cycle)

ECE / WES -- TUFT, COLUMBIA U, NSU, U MN, UoP, USC, UIC, U MICHIGAN & U COLORADO (last 2 school also accept AACRAO), SUNY STONY BROOK

EVALUATOR/S UNKNOWN/ NOT MENTIONED -- MARQUETTE U, CREIGHTON U, U CONN, CASE SCHOOL OF DENTAL MEDICINE

There must be couple of other schools out there hence any errors and omissions are regretted.

rahmed

HI
very good post rahmed,.............since it is coming from somone like you, it should answer to all the people questioning and confronting.........please check out the huge list taking only ece.........also for berlitz for suny, they do the evaluation no more, though suny has its name still on the website, i tried to call berlitz, but they dont do evaluations any more, so suny accpets only ece......

 

[rahmed]

Hi godbless,

thanks, i thought it was long due in our forum. btw i disagree with you about 'huge list' of only ECE takers. The ECE : ECE/WES ratio is 11 : 10. plus at least 2 unknowns (MU & Creighton) are willing to take WES so far. hence the balance until now is even. in fact upenn tilted the balance this year!

good luck to everyone,

rahmed

 

[fido!]

man...this thread is going no where......!ece or wes...what can u do now?u cannot change your g.p.a. now,can u?the damage has already been done and there is no use to cry over spilt milk...what is gone ...is gone...period!this is a very competitive world....so aspiring dentists/ would be dentists in the U.S.A. if u want to be in this competition....just stick your butts to your chair and start studying for your NBDE1 to get a good score!!thatz it !STOP COMPLAINING!

 

[Tightseal]

I disagree with most who are complaining about the GPA'S. First of all US schools are not so dumb to base their admissions on GPA'S alone, everyone on this forum knows that!! Second of all the instituitions like ECE (don't know anything about WES) try to do a lot of research on different education sytems and also on particular schools. I hope all of you know that 60% from eg...GDC or BVP or mangalore .....may not be the same. They do try to give different points based on the difficulty level. Believe me THEY KNOW what they are doing. Now about the schools here knowing about all this, ofcourse they know it that is why they want ECE to evaluate it. When I went to Upenn interview , The person ( I am forgetting his name) told me he went to India and visited BVP since they were accepting so many students from there. He even told me he knows about the Private and Government schools and how they work. So the point is this forum is to help people and provide information and basically ENCOURAGE each other. The three pages on this issue is not making any sense.

 

[fido!]

hello tightseal,r u talking about dr uri hangkorsky,associate dean?

I disagree with most who are complaining about the GPA'S. First of all US schools are not so dumb to base their admissions on GPA'S alone, everyone on this forum knows that!! Second of all the instituitions like ECE (don't know anything about WES) try to do a lot of research on different education sytems and also on particular schools. I hope all of you know that 60% from eg...GDC or BVP or mangalore .....may not be the same. They do try to give different points based on the difficulty level. Believe me THEY KNOW what they are doing. Now about the schools here knowing about all this, ofcourse they know it that is why they want ECE to evaluate it. When I went to Upenn interview , The person ( I am forgetting his name) told me he went to India and visited BVP since they were accepting so many students from there. He even told me he knows about the Private and Government schools and how they work. So the point is this forum is to help people and provide information and basically ENCOURAGE each other. The three pages on this issue is not making any sense.

 

[aerobic]

I guess this thread was started mainly to tell about the facts of g.p.a ,I dont know why some guys are unnecessarily comparing the ECE and WES .Some guys are unknowingly making it a big issue .

This was just to make the schools know that not all marks obtained internationally are genuine and ofcourse Ultimately its they who have to decide the facts

There is no personal vendetta aganist anyone in this thread and It will be excellent if guys try to understand the situation

 

[Tightseal]

Hi Fido............yes It Could be Dr. Uri Hangorsky, is he from Sweden? If he is then yes it has been long time. On a side note V FOR VENDETTA is infact a good movie to watch for change

I guess this thread was started mainly to tell about the facts of g.p.a ,I dont know why some guys are unnecessarily comparing the ECE and WES .Some guys are unknowingly making it a big issue .

This was just to make the schools know that not all marks obtained internationally are genuine and ofcourse Ultimately its they who have to decide the facts

There is no personal vendetta aganist anyone in this thread and It will be excellent if guys try to understand the situation

 

[fido!]

no then..u must be talking about dr peter berthold....he is from sweden!he is currently the pass director,umn!btw,when were u interviewed at upenn?

Hi Fido............yes It Could be Dr. Uri Hangorsky, is he from Sweden? If he is then yes it has been long time. On a side note V FOR VENDETTA is infact a good movie to watch for change

 

[rahmed]

no then..u must be talking about dr peter berthold....he is from sweden!he is currently the pass director,umn!btw,when were u interviewed at upenn?

Yes Dr. Berthold it is. I heard that story during my interview.

 

[magadh]

Hi,
Total marks or college doesnt exjactlly tell about the potential of a student.
What matters is how well you perform,under certain conditions and environment(among agroup of student)with the type of resourses available.
Ex-
If some college have more resourses(better teachers,more books,notes etc)or has easy exam then student in that college can easiely get better percentage.
If other college has less resourses n difficult questions in exam then student of that college will score less percentage.
So difference in percentage marks from these two college doesnt tell which student is better. So the relative performance of a student in his college under simillar resourses is what really tells the true potential of a student.

ECE calculates GPA based on your relative performance in your college not based on percentage marks u have obtained.
Even if u have very high marks but your relative marks is less compare to other students of your college then you will have less GPA and if your percentage is less and your relative marks is more than other student in your college then you will have better GPA.

That is why, even if all student of private college get more marks, he or she can have better GPA only if he or she is topper in his or her college.
If all the student of government college get less marks then a person who is topper in his college will have better GPA and one who have avarage or below avarage marks compare to other students in their college then he will have less GPA.

So GPA is not dependent on college or marks, but on your relative performance in your college.

 

[damast]

u r very right, thats how the gpa is calculated.its ur performance in comparison with ur peers in the college and not compared with any global or national average.This might not be the only component but forms an important part in the calculations.Not to discourage anyone,but if u have a low gpa u have to bear a part responsibility and rest can be partly blamed on college faculty who sometime dont give enough grades to particular students.I have a gpa of 3.2 from ece and i was shocked to see my report because i expected a better gpa as i was a consistent performer in my college days.But when i compared my gpa with my other classmates who were much better than me in the college days,they had a higher gpa, then i realized that i am not as good as them and its true as i never was....

Hi,
Total marks or college doesnt exjactlly tell about the potential of a student.
What matters is how well you perform,under certain conditions and environment(among agroup of student)with the type of resourses available.
Ex-
If some college have more resourses(better teachers,more books,notes etc)or has easy exam then student in that college can easiely get better percentage.
If other college has less resourses n difficult questions in exam then student of that college will score less percentage.
So difference in percentage marks from these two college doesnt tell which student is better. So the relative performance of a student in his college under simillar resourses is what really tells the true potential of a student.

ECE calculates GPA based on your relative performance in your college not based on percentage marks u have obtained.
Even if u have very high marks but your relative marks is less compare to other students of your college then you will have less GPA and if your percentage is less and your relative marks is more than other student in your college then you will have better GPA.

That is why, even if all student of private college get more marks, he or she can have better GPA only if he or she is topper in his or her college.
If all the student of government college get less marks then a person who is topper in his college will have better GPA and one who have avarage or below avarage marks compare to other students in their college then he will have less GPA.

So GPA is not dependent on college or marks, but on your relative performance in your college.

 

[way2DDS]

Hi,
Total marks or college doesnt exjactlly tell about the potential of a student.
What matters is how well you perform,under certain conditions and environment(among agroup of student)with the type of resourses available.
Ex-
If some college have more resourses(better teachers,more books,notes etc)or has easy exam then student in that college can easiely get better percentage.
If other college has less resourses n difficult questions in exam then student of that college will score less percentage.
So difference in percentage marks from these two college doesnt tell which student is better. So the relative performance of a student in his college under simillar resourses is what really tells the true potential of a student.

ECE calculates GPA based on your relative performance in your college not based on percentage marks u have obtained.
Even if u have very high marks but your relative marks is less compare to other students of your college then you will have less GPA and if your percentage is less and your relative marks is more than other student in your college then you will have better GPA.

That is why, even if all student of private college get more marks, he or she can have better GPA only if he or she is topper in his or her college.
If all the student of government college get less marks then a person who is topper in his college will have better GPA and one who have avarage or below avarage marks compare to other students in their college then he will have less GPA.

So GPA is not dependent on college or marks, but on your relative performance in your college.

hi,
i completely agree with ya...well said

 

[godbless]

hi everyone,
when dentistree and me started this conversation, it was aimed at looking for a solution to the problem that a low gpa from ece was not acceptable to some colgs, and there r more colgs moving towards that trend.we didnt realise when it got heated, sorry nilebds....., i understand that a low gpa is not the end of the world,
but please note RAHMED, that though the number of schools taking ece n wes might be equal, but i am more concerned abt schools taking wes on EAST coast........leaves us with few, do not wanna mention them coz as somone sensible pointed out this thread is read by faculty,.........2.9 gpa might get one an interview, but 2.7 might not, 2.2 has a slimer chance n 2 has the lowest.........and it depends on every university individually to decide what is the lowest they accept.but definitely above 3 is SAFE, one wunt get a rejection coz of gpa.
good info provided by MAGADH,
DAMAST, u r rite we take responsibilty for our low gpa, but we r not cribbing abt it, we wanna move on despite our low gpa.
FIDO, u gave me good advice,thanks a lot, but i dunt see any reason for u to get mad.try to understand if u r in the same shoes,it bites hard.
and as somone pointed out there r other things one can improve, and other plus points in one/s application that one can improve upon to cover up the low gpa, well that agian depends on how low is the gpa, 2.9 or 2.6 can be well covered, 2.0 cant be.but then we can apply to schools taking wes.
i dunt understand why people have a problem with my posting my feelings abt gpa on the forum, if you dunt like it, dunt read it, n dunt reply to it..........at least do not send arrogant personal mesgs, i will not reply to them.
this is a tough time, and trying to fgure out other alternatives, thanks to FIDO for his suggestions.........anyone woh can give constructive suggestions is free to do it, people who hav an anger problem please abstain from this thread.thank you all for your input.

 

[g3k]

hi everyone,
when dentistree and me started this conversation, it was aimed at looking for a solution to the problem that a low gpa from ece was not acceptable to some colgs, and there r more colgs moving towards that trend.we didnt realise when it got heated, sorry nilebds....., i understand that a low gpa is not the end of the world,
but please note RAHMED, that though the number of schools taking ece n wes might be equal, but i am more concerned abt schools taking wes on EAST coast........leaves us with few, do not wanna mention them coz as somone sensible pointed out this thread is read by faculty,.........2.9 gpa might get one an interview, but 2.7 might not, 2.2 has a slimer chance n 2 has the lowest.........and it depends on every university individually to decide what is the lowest they accept.but definitely above 3 is SAFE, one wunt get a rejection coz of gpa.
good info provided by MAGADH,
DAMAST, u r rite we take responsibilty for our low gpa, but we r not cribbing abt it, we wanna move on despite our low gpa.
FIDO, u gave me good advice,thanks a lot, but i dunt see any reason for u to get mad.try to understand if u r in the same shoes,it bites hard.
and as somone pointed out there r other things one can improve, and other plus points in one/s application that one can improve upon to cover up the low gpa, well that agian depends on how low is the gpa, 2.9 or 2.6 can be well covered, 2.0 cant be.but then we can apply to schools taking wes.
i dunt understand why people have a problem with my posting my feelings abt gpa on the forum, if you dunt like it, dunt read it, n dunt reply to it..........at least do not send arrogant personal mesgs, i will not reply to them.
this is a tough time, and trying to fgure out other alternatives, thanks to FIDO for his suggestions.........anyone woh can give constructive suggestions is free to do it, people who hav an anger problem please abstain from this thread.thank you all for your input.

Well, when you replied to Nile BDS saying he must thank god, I found it arrogant. But he had nothing like this post to say to you, did he? 🙂 I understand your frustration, but I still think that some of your posts sound arrogant.

i agree with you aerobic, nilebds is misinformed...........he needs to thank god for getting in with 81 score

Now, don't you think this is arrogant? I do, when all he did was give you good advice on what you can do.

 

[g3k]

Some schools in India have no full time faculty , and the schools run with staff mainly on a visiting basis , and the students are given high internal averages at random without conducting examinations... and ofcourse they will be getting great gpa when evaluated here in u.s.

Name one school. 🙂

Does the evaluation services know about these facts...Definitely not.
They just evaluate the marks obtained from the Universities and I dont blame them too..

I think the evaluations should be based on the reputation of the schools in a particular country ,the time of completion of the dental programs ,both of which are again very difficult to assess.

Do you know they don't look into each college and each individual? Do you work for ECE? 🙂

I am sure many guys have been putting all their efforts and hard work and now though they score good percentile in Board Exams , they are not guaranteed any admissions,just because of GPA .

There are master programs you can do to improve your GPA.

Finally,Let the schools think that a person with low G.P.A is not competitive in the program and the one with high G.P.A will be an excellent student considering the above facts.
I think that selecting a student on the basis of the exams conducted by the boards should be the only priority and all other ways of assessing should be determined secondary.
In summary, It will be great, if much weightage is given to the NBDE scores other than looking for the GPA .
This is just my view and I will be glad if any school administration looks into it and work with the reality ....

Trust me every student can get a 99% in NBDE with just 6 months prep. Dentistry is not just about your books. Its about your work skills, your communication capabilities, your interpersonal skills. No patient is just going to email you for an answer that needs to be done in one minute. That is what the interview is for... how well you can answer in the given time. Patients don't just ask .... "oh my teeth hurt what is my problem?" They talk about a lot of other things. No patient is going to stay as your patient if you have a pessimistic attitude or you give latin answers.

If your patient comes to you and says " I think dentists just make things worse by cleaning my teeth. They loosen them", don't you think that they are ignorant? That is exactly how it seems when you are talking about ECE. 🙂 If every school in the US is changing over to ECE that means that there is something reliable about them. 🙂
Again and again, no point in cribbing over the past. I have a low GPA too. Its all in our hands how we present ourselves, our application package. We can have great part 1 scores and argue that we are good students too. Plus, that is what the personal statement is all about. If you feel you were not evaluated right, you can tell the school that you were not evaluated right.. here are the scores, and they can evaluate them.

 

[queen naush]

"Trust me every student can get a 99% in NBDE with just 6 months prep. Dentistry is not just about your books. Its about your work skills, your communication capabilities, your interpersonal skills."

well said g3k. That is undeniably true. I totally second that!

 

[sirisara]

Well said g3k