failed optometry school

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daysend85 said:
I understand that optometry school is MUCH more difficult than undergrad, but don't discount the hard work that it takes to get through a biology major in undergrad. I received great training in research, was told that I completed a cutting-edge original research project by my mentor, and had my abstract published in a scientific journal. I can't understand how any bio majors can get through undergrad without being very familiar with journal articles. Maybe my school is different?
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Not trying to discount the work it takes to be a good student in undergrad or your research experience. I was responding to the idea that grad school was only a little bit harder than passing undergrad. No way. Most people have never designed an original project unless they did an honor's. And in a lot of undergrad courses it's the prof who explains the paper for you, rather than have you do the analysis (when I was a T.A. during my M.Sc. many of my students didn't know how to interpret the results section of a paper). I was a dean's list biology student in undergrad but the Master's was really challenging - and in ways I didn't expect.

Anyway, some students who don't get into optometry school right away are using grad school as part of their re-application strategy without really knowing what's involved. If they go into the sciences at least (don't know about grad school in something like public health or a more social science-leaning program) they may be overwhelmed. I'd recommend doing an honor's or senior thesis-type project first if you're thinking of getting a M.Sc. Or skip grad school: re-take a bunch of pre-recs or take upper level science courses to bump up your GPA.
 
Omega3 said:
Not trying to discount the work it takes to be a good student in undergrad or your research experience. I was responding to the idea that grad school was only a little bit harder than passing undergrad. No way. Most people have never designed an original project unless they did an honor's. And in a lot of undergrad courses it's the prof who explains the paper for you, rather than have you do the analysis (when I was a T.A. during my M.Sc. many of my students didn't know how to interpret the results section of a paper). I was a dean's list biology student in undergrad but the Master's was really challenging - and in ways I didn't expect.

Anyway, some students who don't get into optometry school right away are using grad school as part of their re-application strategy without really knowing what's involved. If they go into the sciences at least (don't know about grad school in something like public health or a more social science-leaning program) they may be overwhelmed. I'd recommend doing an honor's or senior thesis-type project first if you're thinking of getting a M.Sc. Or skip grad school: re-take a bunch of pre-recs or take upper level science courses to bump up your GPA.
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Exactly! Thinking that doing a masters in order to try to get into optometry school is seriously idiotic! For many, the tasks of an MSc would be tougher than optometry school (due to the fact that many students do not care to do experimental analysis on genes and DNA, etc)
 
Hardtimes...If it's any consolation (if you did go to NOVA), NOVA seems to be more strict in their failing policies then other schools. This is only my opinion based off inquires during interviews, and friend's accounts at other schools. They also SEEM to drop more students then other schools. I mean over a dozen students failed out just 1st semester, and that seems a lot compared to to other schools (please correct me if I'm wrong).

If you do decide to go to Puerto Rico though... I read from another thread, where one of the students there said that mostly all of the optometry students who previously dropped out from another optometry school, and then attend PR pass boards the 1st time around.
This is especially true for Nova students, as most of them failed out because of the "system" rather then their abilities. So, you won't be so "screwed" for boards, if you do decide to go there. Ultimately, most of optometry school is independent study anyways, so it doesn't matter...for boards at least.

My advice is that you do what you think will make you happy in the future. If you want to be a teacher, then do that...if you still have a passion for optometry, then do whatever it takes to get back in.

I wish you the best of luck. Don't let an obstacle like this deter you; I mean, look how far you've come.
 
Why would anyone say it's idiotic to get a masters degree? Even if they can't get into optometry school, they will be working toward their masters degree. Believe me, a masters degree will get your farther in any field than an undergrad degree. Trust me, this is how I got it. It works. Keep trying!!!! Prove yourself.
 
to the OP:

Good luck in the future with whatever you decide to do🙂

Don't feel too bad--the last quarter in first year at ICO was rough on pretty much everyone in my class what with neuro, histo, physio, and a bunch of labs if I remember correctly.
 
nova2010 said:
Why would anyone say it's idiotic to get a masters degree? Even if they can't get into optometry school, they will be working toward their masters degree. Believe me, a masters degree will get your farther in any field than an undergrad degree. Trust me, this is how I got it. It works. Keep trying!!!! Prove yourself.
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Yes, get the degree as a goal in itself (that was why I did my M.Sc.) Don't go into it b/c your undergrad grades are low and you think it'll help you get into professional school. Like I said, grad school's very challenging and even good students have trouble.
 
nova2010 said:
Why would anyone say it's idiotic to get a masters degree? Even if they can't get into optometry school, they will be working toward their masters degree. Believe me, a masters degree will get your farther in any field than an undergrad degree. Trust me, this is how I got it. It works. Keep trying!!!! Prove yourself.
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Getting a masters degree is idiotic if the only purpose is an attempt to try to get into optometry school. Many people do not have the desire to test DNA or analyze chromosomes or any other nonsense like that. There are many students who just wish to focus on notes and not research. Obtaining a masters requires a lot of research. By telling students that a masters will help them get farther is very far fetched. Sure, maybe it helped you get into optometry school, but it will not guarantee anything. No method is a guarantee, and therefore, if you cannot get in with an undergraduate degree, it's better to try another career. Remember, many people discount schools like IAUPR (in Puerto Rico) for optometry, where you can get in with a very low GPA.
 
panzer general did you get a masters degree? I got into a one year accelerated biology masters program. It wasn't like you are describing, even though it was very difficult. So is optometry school. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from applying to professional school, even after undergrad didn't go so well for you. We all mature at different times and come to realize what we want. Some get it early, and good for them, but some realize to later on. I'm only saying that admissions committees have so many to choose from, that if undergrad doesn't prove it to them, then you must prove your passion for the profession, somehow. Don't give up, if that's what you really want.
 
if i were you, i wouldn't apply to optometry school again,

gain your credential through working in pharmacy. and go to pharm school.

cuz they make hella more money.

you make $55/hour in CA,, and it's gonna go way up due to baby boomers.

optometrist will be suffering financially, due to oversupply.
oversupply is real..... damn it.
 
why the hell you would want to go back to optometry?

that is like Zack in titanic movie, win the gamble and get back in a ship that will sink.

in this case, zack didn't know what was coming to him. but you do.

Look at AOA report http://www.aoa.org/documents/20-20-Report/C-3 Economics Optometry 2020 8-05.pdf

there's already 3000 optometrist oversupplied, and there will be 6000 optometrist oversupplied in 2016.

on top of this there will be 3 more optometry school opening, not to mention AOA report was not considering 3 more schools.

AOA is affiliated with those 3 new schools and get money from them.
in return, new schools make money off of naive students.

AOA report is more accurate than what Deparment of Labor is saying.

when you graduate, you will make 75K. this is pretty accurate.

whereas if you go into pharmacy, you will make 100K.

Pharmacist made less money than optometrist throughout the history, now they beat us!

In future, difference will only be larger. by far, pharmacist is going to make hella more money.

good times are gone. Thanks to stupid AOA and new schools, optometry will only face oversupply, eating each other in order to survive.

oh,, if you do optometry until 2030, which is 28 years later, you will see that supply and demand meets back again. but you will be close to 60 years old when that happens.
 
So I'm taking a pre-req class starting in fall to apply to NOVA's extended program. Does anyone knows how heavily NOVA weighs the accumulated grades in optometry school (they're bad) - but my GPA's 3.5 and above avg. OAT.

I want to try for optometry still. If not, I may just end up getting a MPH. I think I'd end up with a better job in public health than in education. My friends that are teachers are struggling with getting a good job - the market sucks.

I don't wanna be a pharmacist - I'd hate being stuck behind the counter - and I don't like chemistry enough to get me through the program.

If all else fails, I'll just find a rich husband 😉
 
I had a 2.8 with a 330 OAT and I am now BSK. Grades aren't the only thing that matters here for admissions, and obviously they saw the potential for something greater in me. You need to be able to reasonably explain why you didn't make it the first time, but why you think things would be different this time around. Not all people that fail are a lost cause or are just not cut out for optometry school.

Seriously, though, you need to contact NOVA and not worry about the dribble we lay down here (negativity, it seems, is infectious.) The administration will help you get the best idea of your likeliness of getting in. Good luck.
 
I agree with swiftiii. Don't listen to other's negative remarks. Go after what you want, be sincere, work hard. You will achieve. Good luck!!
 
"Hardtimes", it seems as if though we are kind of on the same boat. I too was an ICO student this past year who was academically dismissed, but a lot of my academic issues were personal problems. Earlier in this thread someone else mentioned how it can be very difficult to memorize facts when your mind is SHOT, and that was so true for me. At any rate, after going back and forth between seeking other careers ...I can honestly say I was not happy with any other choices. I tried to convince myself I wanted to become a Physician Assistant (2 yr program, about same pay as optometrist, and a hell of a lot cheaper than OD school) but my heart was not in it. At the end of my mental war, I realized I really wanted to give optometry school another shot and do what I have to do to show the admissions committee I am now very capable.

Now, after contacting several schools and talking to the Administration about "what they look for in a re-applicant or readmission"...many want you to simulate your first year of OD school and pass it with at least A's and B's. The best way to do this is to enroll into a Post Bacc program and modify the program a little to identify with your 1st year of OD school (you're going to have to do a little research on this part). Many students in the Post Bacc programs are Pre-Med students who did not get in to Med school their 1st try, Med Students who failed out 1st year, or other students such as ourselves for whatever reason did not survive the 1st year of OD school or other health professional schools. IMO, a masters would not help very much because, though I am sure it is tough, it does not show you can successfully "memorize" and handle a large amount of knowledge at one time. In no way is the Post Bacc program going to be a walk in the park, but I feel I will do well because we were exposed to all this material once already. During the last quarter I had mostly B's except for failing 1 class and I failed one during the winter quarter.... you're not allowed to fail 2 or more classes within an academic year.

I too am strongly considering applying for NOVAs 5 year program just to make sure I do well during the first 2 years of intense material. I just found out I have Adult ADD which made it a lot more difficult to focus but I am receiving professional treatment. FYI, sometimes it is good to seek professional help when you strongly feel something is not right when you have always been a "good student." I hope this information helps anyone on the same page who feels lost and confused about their professional future.

On another note, before I entered optometry school I was an ophthalmic technician for 2 years. If you are worried about forgetting optometric skills you learned during your first year of schooling, I recommend working PT or FT as an ophthalmic technician because you have more "hands-on" experience than an optometric tech would. I am currently working as an ophthalmic tech and the ophthalmologist allows me to to refract (practicing with my ret scope,hehe), do all kinds of testing, etc. It's a lot easier for me now to do my job since I have a better understanding of what the ophthalmologist is looking for in patients. This can be an excellent learning experience and I hope OD schools see this as a positive thing during the appication process. However, once the Post Bacc program starts I am going to be fully dedicated to it and leave my job.
 
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I have a question to those who have failed optometry school...

1. What school did you go to?
2. What major were you?
3. Were you a non- traditional student of any kind?

Thanks!
 
DrSpontaneouz83 said:
myself I wanted to become a Physician Assistant (2 yr program, about same pay as optometrist, and a hell of a lot cheaper than OD school)
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I have to respectfully disagree. A Physician Assistant does not make the same as an O.D. They make less, and will never reach the maximum an O.D. can make.
 
Well after doing research, a PA can actually make up to 150,00...especially if they assist in spinal surgery. However, the starting salary for ODs and PA's is not too far off...roughly $5,000-10,000 higher for the OD. So I do agree that an OD can make more starting out, especially if starting their own practice. But considering the final cost of schooling..not bad to be a PA because you are done in 2 years with schooling costing approximately 50,000-60,000 vs. an OD which is 4 yrs and about $160,000. I just personally do not see myself suturing wounds...eghh.
 
DrSpontaneouz83 said:
Well after doing research, a PA can actually make up to 150,00...especially if they assist in spinal surgery. However, the starting salary for ODs and PA's is not too far off...roughly $5,000-10,000 higher for the OD. So I do agree that an OD can make more starting out, especially if starting their own practice. But considering the final cost of schooling..not bad to be a PA because you are done in 2 years with schooling costing approximately 50,000-60,000 vs. an OD which is 4 yrs and about $160,000. I just personally do not see myself suturing wounds...eghh.
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Ok, that's fair enough. Although if money is the main objective, there are many ways to obtain more than 200,000.00 without doing as much schooling as an O.D. (strippers can easily make over 1000.00 a day)
 
Eyestrain, what is "very not true"? I'd like to hear this one.... I may be amused considering your other posts on SDN.
 
DrSpontaneouz83 said:
Eyestrain, what is "very not true"? I'd like to hear this one.... I may be amused considering your other posts on SDN.
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You said "So I do agree that an OD can make more starting out, especially if starting their own practice". All I'm saying is that you don't make much money at all when you first start a practice. Maybe 5 or 6 years down the road, but not just starting out.
 
eyestrain said:
You said "So I do agree that an OD can make more starting out, especially if starting their own practice". All I'm saying is that you don't make much money at all when you first start a practice. Maybe 5 or 6 years down the road, but not just starting out.
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Ok, then I guess you agree with the fact that it may be in someone's best financial interest to go to PA school vs. OD school since being a PA can be more financially rewarding? (considering all expenses)
 
DrSpontaneouz83 said:
Ok, then I guess you agree with the fact that it may be in someone's best financial interest to go to PA school vs. OD school since being a PA can be more financially rewarding? (considering all expenses)
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To be honest, I don't care and I haven't been paying attention to this PA vs OD argument. I was just pointing out th inaccuracy of your statement.
 
Well thank you "Eyestrain' for trolling around and attempting to "correct people" as if you were some know-it-all. Since it appears you have so much time on your hands, it would be nice if you used that time productively to help out fellow colleagues instead of being so bitter and jaded.

Thanks.
 
Well?
 
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Qwopty99, thank you for your analysis on the situation, however, I do not share a kind past with Eyestrain. But great observation 🙂
 
DrSpontaneouz83 said:
Ok, then I guess you agree with the fact that it may be in someone's best financial interest to go to PA school vs. OD school since being a PA can be more financially rewarding? (considering all expenses)
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I can say with certainty that I make much more money than any PA out there and God willing, at the end of my career I'll have a business to sell that will be worth multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.

A PA is similar to commercial optometry. They start out high right away but then they likely really start to max out quickly. Their ability to generate salary is going to be contingent on their ability to generate income for an office. Once they reach a certain salary, it's just as easy to hire another MD.

Unless they can operate independently or have an ownership role in something, they will never make it into the really "big bucks" that being a business owner can make.

That's the key.....own a business.
 
DrSpontaneouz83 said:
Qwopty99, thank you for your analysis on the situation, however, I do not share a kind past with Eyestrain. But great observation 🙂
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Take it easy, Doc. I wasn't being rude at all, I was just pointing out how inaccurate your statement was. It was YOU who was using the inaccuracy as proof for whatever it was you were arguing. I was tying to clarify the situation. I guess I won't do so next time. I always forget how much smarter you students are. After all, how could I possible know more than you about starting a practice when I'm the one who is ACTUALLY DOING SO.
 
KHE said:
I can say with certainty that I make much more money than any PA out there and God willing, at the end of my career I'll have a business to sell that will be worth multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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Just curious - do you think you will be able to find a buyer?
 
Am I the only person here that did not get into Optometry to make the big bucks? It's weird and sad (to me) how much you all tend to focus on the pay....
 
See what motivates you 5 years after graduation.
 
qwopty99 said:
Just curious - do you think you will be able to find a buyer?
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If a business is a money maker, and has been kept up to date in a reasonable fashion, then there is no reason that a buyer will not be found.

Of course, I'm not planning on retiring for a number of years and who knows what the future holds, but in theory, yes.
 
I have been placed on the wailist for OSU optometry collage. Has anyone been placed on the waitlist?, or Do you know anyone who has been accepted thinks not to confirm his/her acceptance at OSU, wait for your reply😳
 
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RNK said:
I have been placed on the wailist for OSU optometry collage. Has anyone been placed on the waitlist?, or Do you know anyone who has been accepted thinks not to confirm his/her acceptance at OSU, wait for your reply😳
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Wow, you do know how to start a new thread right ?
 
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