Failed the USMLE and looking for career alternatives

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MBBCh

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Hi Guys,

I'm a US citizen international medical graduate, graduated from University of Al-Fateh for medical sciences in 2003 in Libya and earned my MBBCh with a grade of " Good " GPA= 2.56 . It's a very good school with UK based curriculum . I went to study there because my family lived there for a while and i got accepted based on my high school performance " got 91% " .

Anyway, i decided to come back to apply for residency in the US , I failed both step-1 and step-2ck three times, I've passed USMLE CS. but since i still couldn't clear step-1 and 2 " total of 6 attempts " . I think that i have a problem with such types of standardized tests with this difficulty level, although i got near passing scores " 71-73 " . It seems like it's not going to happen. I'm getting old " 30 years old " working as a research assistant in a university hospital . I need to make a move that restore my path. So I'm considering alternative fields related to my educational medical background . Please let me know your best advice regarding my situation ? If i don't figure out something now , then it'll be a quite depressing experience..
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You can try applying to nursing school, then become an RN. It's a job with decent payment, around $70-80K is what I heard. Excellent job security in this kind of economy right now.
 
I did not really understand whether you want to pursue some thing is medicine where you will not be a doctor but you can use your medical knowledge or something entirely different?

Have you considered physician's assistant (PA)? You have to take courses but I guess you might be able to do fast track and I think salary is better than nurses and you don't have to do **** work.

Other option is medical technician like EKG tech, Echo or sleep lab etc where your medical knowledge might be a valuable asset. I don't know salary for all the options I have listed above.

Do you know what does it take to become basic science teacher like anatomy etc?

Have you considered being a pharma rep.? There you get to meet all the hot pharma rep. chicks which you will never find in medical school.

Then there is business side like informatics or do MBA etc
 
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MBBCh said:
Hi Guys,

Please let me know your best advice regarding my situation ? If i don't figure out something now , then it'll be a quite depressing experience..
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I think one of the worst thing you can do is ask on the online forum to give you career advice specific to your situation.

It is your first post, no body knows you even some one have some knowledge it is still worst thing to ask to advice you what to do.

It is ok to ask what the options similar to medicine for the people who can't see patients like many doctors have their medical license revoked etc.

I think you should try to ask people where are you working.
 
MBBCh said:
Hi Guys,

I'm a US citizen international medical graduate, graduated from University of Al-Fateh for medical sciences in 2003 in Libya and earned my MBBCh with a grade of " Good " GPA= 2.56 . It's a very good school with UK based curriculum . I went to study there because my family lived there for a while and i got accepted based on my high school performance " got 91% " .

Anyway, i decided to come back to apply for residency in the US , I failed both step-1 and step-2ck three times, I've passed USMLE CS. but since i still couldn't clear step-1 and 2 " total of 6 attempts " . I think that i have a problem with such types of standardized tests with this difficulty level, although i got near passing scores " 71-73 " . It seems like it's not going to happen. I'm getting old " 30 years old " working as a research assistant in a university hospital . I need to make a move that restore my path. So I'm considering alternative fields related to my educational medical background . Please let me know your best advice regarding my situation ? If i don't figure out something now , then it'll be a quite depressing experience..
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:troll:
 
FMGs can take the USMLE steps in any order. Step I is not a pre-req for Step II or Step III for FMGs. With that being said, the OP needs to figure out his/her problems and get them solved if he/her wants to practice medicine in the United States. No matter what the OP wants to do in terms of medicine, passing all three of the steps is going to be of paramount importance and saying that "I'm no good at standardized tests" isn't going to cut it.

Even if the OP passes all three of the USMLE steps, they still have yearly inservice exams during residency and specialty boards. All of these exams are standardized tests. If medicine is your goal, then the OP has to get this problem under control. After that, he/she can deal with trying to find a residency (even FM is going to be significant hurdle) program that will be interested in taking a chance on someone who struggles with passing USMLE.
 
FractureFixer said:
exactly. He couldn't have taken step 2 if he failed step 1 x3 times. It is a prerequisite to take step 2 having passed step 1.
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He could've failed Step 1 3 times, then passed it. Go on to Step 2, then failed it 3 times.

I don't think OP is a troll.
 
Good Yeast said:
He could've failed Step 1 3 times, then passed it. Go on to Step 2, then failed it 3 times.

I don't think OP is a troll.
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If that is the case......we need a revision on who we are letting become doctors!:scared:
 
njbmd said:
Even if the OP passes all three of the USMLE steps, they still have yearly inservice exams during residency and specialty boards. All of these exams are standardized tests. If medicine is your goal, then the OP has to get this problem under control. After that, he/she can deal with trying to find a residency (even FM is going to be significant hurdle) program that will be interested in taking a chance on someone who struggles with passing USMLE.
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Actually, the OP has to realize that many states will not grant him a license. If he has failed both Step 1 & 2ck three times, and still hasn't passed them, that places him out of the window that many states allow for attempts at the USMLE.
 
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Guys,

I failed both step-1 and step-2 three times each , and passed the CS. Let me tell you something : " **** Happens " , and unfortunately it happened to me. there are the only exams that i have failed in my entire life. It's not like i was swimming in money so i did the exams 6 times, or busy having fun. I've spent 4 damn years working in the lab to afford money for living and paying for the exams. working 8-10 hr/ day and coming back home to open the books and answer Q-bank the rest of the night. And Trust me, a fellow graduate from my same class and same average GPA, Got 99 in both steps from the first attempt and got a residency spot.

Now, It happened. Till this moment i was preparing for 4th step2 CK retake, but my morals are at bottom, and can't see a reason to retake the test if my previous attempts would make it nearly impossible for me to get any residency spot in the future..

Now, what I'm looking for is for the good career advice " related to my background " ...and why did i choose to ask for it in this forum ? easy, because it's difficult to get it anywhere else. No body cares.
 
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forget about GPA.

I have seen gold medalist form FM school do worse than average student in USA.

It is past so move on.

Before you take the exam, take practice tests. I know in many foreign school people memorize whole text book. If that is the case, it will not help you much here in USA for your USMLE.

Here what you need to do. Study First aid, Kaplan books, you can buy them online and have you heard of USMLE world????

It is great source. You should take practice exam. If you are getting less than 60% on USMLE world, don't take the exam.

You can take NBME practice exam 4 weeks before actual exam and it will tell you where do you stand.


Again USMLE world rocks, instead of spending $700 on exam spend half of that money on USMLE world for 6 month subscription and do yourself a favor, take step 1 first.
 
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sam1999 said:
Here what you need to do. Study First aid, Kaplan books, you can buy them online and have you heard of USMLE world????
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Dude, read the posts. I don't think OP is looking for study techniques.

OP, are you talking about finding something to do in general, or something to do in the US?
 
I think the OP has already decided that MD is out of the window. So, no more on this topic.

Hey OP, you have to tell us whether you want to seek a job opportunity in the healthcare system. If yes, then we may be able to give you some insight. If no, then there is not a good place to discuss your case.
 
MBBCh said:
Guys,

I failed both step-1 and step-2 three times each , and passed the CS. Let me tell you something : " **** Happens " , and unfortunately it happened to me. there are the only exams that i have failed in my entire life. It's not like i was swimming in money so i did the exams 6 times, or busy having fun. I've spent 4 damn years working in the lab to afford money for living and paying for the exams. working 8-10 hr/ day and coming back home to open the books and answer Q-bank the rest of the night. And Trust me, a fellow graduate from my same class and same average GPA, Got 99 in both steps from the first attempt and got a residency spot.

Now, It happened. Till this moment i was preparing for 4th step2 CK retake, but my morals are at bottom, and can't see a reason to retake the test if my previous attempts would make it nearly impossible for me to get any residency spot in the future..

Now, what I'm looking for is for the good career advice " related to my background " ...and why did i choose to ask for it in this forum ? easy, because it's difficult to get it anywhere else. No body cares.
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I know someone who studied at a foreign medical school, came to the US, and did not pass the boards. They decided to go to PA (Physician Assistant) school, got accepted, and is now pursuing that at a pretty good school. I imagine this to be a possibility for you, if you don't want to mess with the Steps any more.
 
First, there's nothing that makes the OP's story unbeliveable, let alone trollish.

However I'm not sure what the OP is asking. OP: are you asking for advice on how to take the tests? Or advice on whether or not to take them (continue with medicine) at all? Or what your chances at a US residency would be if you eventually passed your exams? Or ideas for how to use a medical degree if you don't want to go into clinical medicine? Or just alternative career ideas because you've already given up on medicine? I think you need to clarify what you want from us, because right now you're getting the quality of commentary usually reserved for YouTube videos.

Also, to clarify, is there a country where you're considered a Doctor right now? Does Lybia think you've finished medical school or are they waiting for you to pass your boards to get your degree?
 
DrJosephKim said:
At the end of the day, you may want to consider a non-clinical career.
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I'm pretty sure that's what this thread is asking for. I don't know how you guys drifted into "use USMLE World, dude!" when the thread title is "career alternatives."
 
Perrotfish said:
First, there's nothing that makes the OP's story unbeliveable, let alone trollish.

However I'm not sure what the OP is asking. OP: are you asking for advice on how to take the tests? Or advice on whether or not to take them (continue with medicine) at all? Or what your chances at a US residency would be if you eventually passed your exams? Or ideas for how to use a medical degree if you don't want to go into clinical medicine? Or just alternative career ideas because you've already given up on medicine? I think you need to clarify what you want from us, because right now you're getting the quality of commentary usually reserved for YouTube videos.

Also, to clarify, is there a country where you're considered a Doctor right now? Does Lybia think you've finished medical school or are they waiting for you to pass your boards to get your degree?
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You, re right 100% . I should clarify. At first, i'm already a doctor in libya " GP " , I'm a US citizen, and would not like to practice medicine in libya as a GP , maybe as a specialist, but it's very difficult to get board certified in Libya for many reasons. So after i graduated i decided to come back to live and work in the US.

Regarding what advice i'm looking for :
1- Do you think i should call it off for medicine ?
2- if not, what are my chances to get residency if i do pass an extra attempt ?
3- if the chances are slim, what career/education field that will absorb my medical knowledge and education " Health care related " would put me back on track to be a contribution member in the community ? Academia ? Chiropractic ? podiatry? Phd ? MHA ? MPH ? optometry ? biomedical engineering ? I'm even considiring going back to school if i must.
I don't to waste more time gambiling on my career and future.. I need to work. Is Chiropractic a respected and recognized field ?

Because deciding to leave the MD for good is a life altering decision, and once i decide it it'll be final. I'm 30..i repeat 30.

So please bear with me few minutes, and give me an honest advice, you see the economy is bad out there, and i need to figure out the right way.
 
WellWornLad said:
Dude, read the posts. I don't think OP is looking for study techniques.

OP, are you talking about finding something to do in general, or something to do in the US?
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Dude you should re read his question again. Even though he is asking career advice other than MD but still he is interested in the medicine. The way I understand it he still want to be MD as first choice. MBBch is this true?

MBBch only you can decide if medicine is not for you. If you still want to be MD here and want to get into residency, only way I can think is do some degree along with your research like MPH or PhD. But you still need to pass USMLE. It is true that some states do have number of attempts on USMLE requirements but many don't. Lets assume you pass your USMLE and get residency but in order to get though residency you must pass step 3. Here are the requirements for step 3

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

Now next stage is get medical license and here are the requirement for license.

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

There are still tons of states where you can practice medicine with these credential providing you can pass all USMLE with out further failure.

Now when you say you want to work, are you being paid for the research work? Have you even figured out what are your weaknesses? I am sure after 3 + 3 USMLE attempts you must have understood why you could not figure out answer to a question?

I still don't understand why are you asking strangers who are by the way your competitors as well for a residency slot to give you career advice?

You need to first decide if MD career is not for you then will be every thing else.

I have heard someone like you went to nursing school and worked as nurse, passed USMLE then got into FP residency program. As long as you are doing something related to medicine like research, nursing, PA you can still get into residency providing you can pass USMLE.

There was girl in my class from south america and told me her mother got into residency that year. Wow, what happened. Well it seems like they left their country and this was only way she could be MD here in USA. I am sure mom must have done medical school like 25 - 28 years ago.

Her mom was Cardiologist in her home country but she was working as echo tech in USA. So every thing is possible.
 
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1- Do you think i should call it off for medicine ?
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This is a question only you can answer. Do you think you can ultimately pass the USMLE? Were you at least close on the 3rd attempt?


2- if not, what are my chances to get residency if i do pass an extra attempt ?
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As bad as things may seem, you do infact have a chance. Odds are you might end up doing a transitional year, with the hope of ultimately getting an FP residency in the middle of nowhere. So you're not going to be an Ortho, but this is possible. We have forums for international students where you might get better info.

3- if the chances are slim, what career/education field that will absorb my medical knowledge and education " Health care related " would put me back on track to be a contribution member in the community ? Academia ? Chiropractic ? podiatry? Phd ? MHA ? MPH ? optometry ? biomedical engineering ? I'm even considiring going back to school if i must.
I don't to waste more time gambiling on my career and future.. I need to work.
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The good news is that, unlike a Caribbean student who can't pass step 2, you have a real school that will say you're a doctor of medicine even though you can't pass the boards. That means, with no additional work, you can go right into research, whether in academia or with a corporation. Of course if you help have research experience. Now I have no idea what your odd are of getting a job here or what your projected salary would be, so you might want to ask those who have experience.

If you ultimately want to make a career in academia a PhD might be a good way to retrain. MD/PhDs can land top research experience. Also, unlike the other careers you're considering, PhDs get paid while in traning. Not much, of course, but they get paid.

Careers in healthcare administration are a definite possibility. And and MPH/MHA might be doable in only a year. Those degrees would also have the advantage of improving your residency app if you decided, at a later time, to give the USMLE and US residency another shot.

Podiatry, optomotry, nursing, dentistry, and PA, nutritionist, and doctor of physical therapy are all good alternatives in health care, but keep in mind that they would all require you to go back to school for a bit. PA would be the fastest way to a paying job, and would be my recommendation if you giive up on being an MD.


Is Chiropractic a respected and recognized field ?
Click to expand...

Chiroractors:

1) Would require you to go to school to be a chiropractor, long/expensive road.
2) Are not respected as healthcare professionals (they have no rights to perscribe anything) and in the US are considered part of 'complementary and alternative medicine', a label which includes acupuncturists, shamens, and healing crystal experts.
3) (most importantly) have one of the highest bankruptcy rates of any pseudo-healthcare profession. The market right now is oversaturated which means that the salaries are TERRIBLE, on average. This doesn't mean that there aren't chiros doing very well, but the average is definitely bad.


Because deciding to leave the MD for good is a life altering decision, and once i decide it it'll be final. I'm 30..i repeat 30.
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Ya ain't as old as you think you are. Not in the US anyway. While grads outside the US might consider 30 a little old for starting a medical career, in the US this is actually right around the average age to finish medical school in the States. We have several people in my class that are starting medical school itself in their mid-30s, and that's not even wierd. Mid 50s would be a little wierd, but even that happens.
 
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Move on. Even if by some miracle you pass Steps 1 and 2ck next time around, most states will bar from you practicing there because of so many failed attempts. If you're this bad at taking these exams, you're a high risk for failing step 3, the in-service exams, and the boards. Therefore, you will have an extremely difficult time getting a residency to take a risk on you.
 
sam1999 said:
I still don't understand why are you asking strangers who are by the way your competitors as well for a residency slot to give you career advice?
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Oh, I didn't see that we were handing out tinfoil hats today.
 
Perrotfish said:
As bad as things may seem, you do infact have a chance. Odds are you might end up doing a transitional year, with the hope of ultimately getting an FP residency in the middle of nowhere. So you're not going to be an Ortho, but this is possible. We have forums for international students where you might get better info.

If you ultimately want to make a career in academia a PhD might be a good way to retrain. MD/PhDs can land top research experience. Also, unlike the other careers you're considering, PhDs get paid while in traning. Not much, of course, but they get paid.
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Getting into a "transitional" year is actually more competitive than getting into a categorical slot. Transitional programs are very sought after by folks who are going into anesthesia, derm and optho and thus fill pretty quickly in the MATCH. The OP is virtually locked out of these types of programs and likely out of matching in the United States because of the history of failures. Most programs (even in the middile of nowhere) are not going to take a chance on someone who has this type of history because program accreditation is hooked to the ability of graduates from your program to pass specialty boards.

Academic medicine while preferring the MD/Ph.D, does not look favorably on MD/Ph.Ds who are not board certified in some specialty. They absolutely need to be board certified/board eligible in the specialty in which they wish to teach. Even those folks who wish to teach in the basic science need to have some solid research/publications in the subject matter that they which to teach. Just getting a Ph.D is likely not going to be enough for the OP who again, studied outside the United States and has a medical degree. He/She would need to enter a Ph.D here in the US or at a strong academic institution (Libya is not know for having one of these), do a post-doc here and get some solid publications. The lack of residency/specialty training is going to be a deal breaker with most academic medical institutions here in the US.

The OP is going to face a huge problem getting into even a prelim year let along a specialty in the United States. He/She has a problem with testing and needs to work these problems out before he/she keeps trying to go down this path. There is virtually no field of medicine in the United States that doesn't involve some type of standardized test taking experience.
 
I know a lot of foreign medical school graduates who came to the states and for whatever reasons (difficulty/time commitment to pass the boards is probably one of them) ending up doing a ph.d. Your background would help certainly help you in your biological studies.
 
I don't mind going back to school again as long as it will restore my confidence and get back into the system. My problem with the USMLE is more psychological related rather than knowledge base, i didn't study from the right resources the firs time, and kept repeating studying from the same resources " British curriculum " on the 2nd attempts, till i figured out that kaplan and UW is the way to go, i did them in a rush on the third attempt..and failed because of lack of proper preparation for such exams..So i realized that i have destroyed myself ..and it's too late to repair the damage..i.e i need another year to prepare very well ..but i can't it's too late and too many att:confused:mpts will scare the hell out of any PD would recieve my application..

Hey guys, what about podiatric medicine ? any clues ?
 
Did you ever consider consulting a psychiatrist to see if you have a learning disability or a problem in taking standardized tests? I know of someone who failed the USMLE 3 times, sought a psychiatrist who diagnosed her with a learning disability and did very well the fourth time when treated properly. She was smart so naturally when the going finally got rough for her in medical school, whereas before in college it wasn't challenging, her problems finally manifested. Might be worth an avenue to investigate if you don't want to give it all up just yet.
 
News,

I was trying to contact a university in oklahoma for the PA programs, and they told me the GPA off 2.56 is pretty poor and not competitive at all .,and they won't admit me....Here we go, it's getting dark.
 
braluk said:
Did you ever consider consulting a psychiatrist to see if you have a learning disability or a problem in taking standardized tests? I know of someone who failed the USMLE 3 times, sought a psychiatrist who diagnosed her with a learning disability and did very well the fourth time when treated properly. She was smart so naturally when the going finally got rough for her in medical school, whereas before in college it wasn't challenging, her problems finally manifested. Might be worth an avenue to investigate if you don't want to give it all up just yet.
Click to expand...

It is amazing how much of a difference that can make. I was similar to the person you knew. Never really had troubles until I got here and then realized that my 1 hour yield for every 10 hours sitting there just wasn't cutting it. Got tested and developed a plan. Just kicking in now, so we'll see how it goes.

That being said, it seems kind of odd that one could do well all the way through second year on nearly all of the tests and then have the USMLE be the first real wall. I always kind of knew I had issues, every test along the way has shown that. It just became much more obvious the past few months.
 
Just a random thought: ever looked into the CIA? Experience abroad + I'm guess in demand foreign language experience + medical training could probably lead to a good career if you're the patriotic type.
 
Even the alternative seems hard. My GPA= 2.56 . the graduate schools i contacted so far have a min of 3.0 for admission. So what i can do ?

Are there any graduate school accept my GPA ?

Do I need to go back to Undergrad all over again ???

It's just getting darker with me, looks like closed from all directions..
 
vasca said:
Not to be mean, but I would slap the OP for not doing any research whatsoever on such a vital (not to mention expensive) exam. Isn't Step 2 CS the exam where you interact with real people (albeit actors)? Then in terms of talking to people his english is good enough, he explained he didn't prepare properly for the exams by firstly and on the second shot studying from completely wrong material.

I plan on taking the exams myself when the time comes but I'd obviously dedicate myself to the studying material AMG's use from the start. 3000 dollars may not sound much, but to me in this mexican economy it's an insane amount of cash to not pass the exam on the first try.

It's also not enough to "barely pass it" mentality. I'd rather fail the exam than get a "barely passed" grade because I know that that bad grade is impossible to improve with an exam retake. That 186 on Step 1 is there FOREVER.

The US is not the only country on Earth to practise medicine, there's still many other countries to work at. I'd rather practise medicine in the country I studied at despite all of the bad things (long hours, low pay) than going back to school and study something in healthcare that isn't medicine just for the sake of residing in the US. I already spent too many sleepless nights to go back to school for 101 introductory filler classes.

30 years old isn't old, especially in the US. I knew people in their 40's getting into medicine and I live in a country where that's not the norm. In the US people starting at that age is rather common.

If you do aim for the USMLE's again, if you aren't getting at least a 230 o the practise exams everytime, save the cash and the annoyance, consider practising medicine in a different country. There's other countries that have huge shortages of doctors.
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What the hell ? I'm saying what you have already said, to myself everyday..I went through all the analysis of my situation..Yes, I have made huge mistakes, I had performance anxiety, didn't prepare the right way..and wasted expensive time..It's done.. I need a fresh start, i have faith on my capabilities..just need the right guidance. I'm willing to try and fight for it.. I think i might need a psychotherapy for my OCD/ learning disability ..

My fiancee told me that i have an OCD just few months ago..I've never taught that i have an OCD.
 
deejdoc said:
Hi,

I think you can apply to some short course somewhere like CRAA and then get placement in the area you are looking for.
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Dude... really? This is a troll thread from 5 years ago.
 
deejdoc said:
Hi,

I think you can apply to some short course somewhere like CRAA and then get placement in the area you are looking for.
Click to expand...

Timely post. Good thing you got to him right in time. I totes bet he does plastics now specializing in craniofacial reconstruction.
 
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Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but are you sure medicine is the right choice for you? What if your type of intelligence isn't well suited for medicine in the first place
 
Etorphine said:
Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but are you sure medicine is the right choice for you? What if your type of intelligence isn't well suited for medicine in the first place
Click to expand...
I doubt he cares bc his post was back in 2009. This thread was necrobumped by a spammer or a bot (who is now erased).
 
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is 2015 now... what happened with OP?
if hestory is ture.. i feel bad for him.
if not...well thats sad too... i mean spending all that time making up this story
in any case i hope he is fine, and most important of all (yes this is the mos important thing in life)
he is HAPPY with whatever he is doing now.
 
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