"Failing" DIY Post-Bac - what now?

[Series2]

Background: I have a BA (3.5 GPA) and MA (3.3 GPA) in a particular field within the humanities. I have worked professionally for a number of years but decided, after much thought, to return to my original undergrad goal of applying to medical school. The DIY post-bac program aimed at my "career changer" status-- as their isn't an official post-bac program at my school -- would be a total of 6 semesters, including 2 summer semesters. I have to take the pre-reqs of GChem, GBio, OChem, Phys, BioChem and Calc as I have already taken Stats.

Present: I have successfully completed GChem, GBio and Phys I. Unfortunately, I received a C- in OChem I and will be retaking OChem I and II (in different sessions) this summer. I'm currently enrolled in Phys II, which I fear may end up being another C and Calc (I'm more optimistic). I plan on taking BioChem and Psych this fall. In addition, I have 200+ hours of hands-on volunteer experience (with a local top-tier medical school run clinic) and 40+ shadowing hours. I also run the top-tier clinic on different dates, which includes administrative tasks as well as knowing and performing: BP, HR, RR, temp., glucose, PCP/insurance referrals, and PPD placements. Given, my background/upbringing is from an extremely underserved part of the country, my intention is to attend a medical program with an emphasis in rural health, so as to return "home" and serve the underserved.

Question(s): I have a list of 30 MD and DO programs that I will be applying to. My concern is what if, given the current semester, I pass Phys II with a C? That then leaves a C and a C- (from OChem I) on my transcript. My hope is that I will excel this summer and receive a far superior grade in OChem I. But, I'm still concerned that my undergrad GPA, which was satisfactory, is now lower -- since enrolling in the DIY post-bac -- and will significantly diminish my chances of being accepted into any medical program.

I do understand that some medical programs will take a more holistic approach regarding the application process but what I want to know is -- am I overthinking this? Am I worrying too much?

I feel that I cannot re-take any science course as: (1) I'm already taking these courses in a DIY post-bac, and (2) unless absolutely needed (like OChem I), I don't believe its advisable to retake courses within such a short time frame. This form of academic GPA "padding" I'm sure is highly frowned upon.

What next? Do I continue down this path? Or am I simply fooling myself?

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[Ismet]

The point of a post-bacc is to knock it out of the park and really show that you can handle the coursework of med school. 3 C grades in pre-reqs shows that you might struggle with the coursework.

DO schools do grade replacement, so you can re-take those C courses, get A's, and your post-bacc GPA will likely be solid. MD schools only average retakes, so your GPA would improve but not as drastically. Have you tried to address the reason you're struggling? Summer sessions are usually harder than semester sessions, so you need to figure out why you got C's in ochem and do something different. Maybe get a tutor or check out online resources like Kahn academy or something.

Just curious, are you officially qualified to run that clinic and do what you say you do? Those tasks are really out of the scope of a pre-med volunteer and it might raise eyebrows unless you have the qualifications to be doing those things.

 

[Goro]

Suggest looking at Plan B.

Background: I have a BA (3.5 GPA) and MA (3.3 GPA) in a particular field within the humanities. I have worked professionally for a number of years but decided, after much thought, to return to my original undergrad goal of applying to medical school. The DIY post-bac program aimed at my "career changer" status-- as their isn't an official post-bac program at my school -- would be a total of 6 semesters, including 2 summer semesters. I have to take the pre-reqs of GChem, GBio, OChem, Phys, BioChem and Calc as I have already taken Stats.

Present: I have successfully completed GChem, GBio and Phys I. Unfortunately, I received a C- in OChem I and will be retaking OChem I and II (in different sessions) this summer. I'm currently enrolled in Phys II, which I fear may end up being another C and Calc (I'm more optimistic). I plan on taking BioChem and Psych this fall. In addition, I have 200+ hours of hands-on volunteer experience (with a local top-tier medical school run clinic) and 40+ shadowing hours. I also run the top-tier clinic on different dates, which includes administrative tasks as well as knowing and performing: BP, HR, RR, temp., glucose, PCP/insurance referrals, and PPD placements. Given, my background/upbringing is from an extremely underserved part of the country, my intention is to attend a medical program with an emphasis in rural health, so as to return "home" and serve the underserved.

Question(s): I have a list of 30 MD and DO programs that I will be applying to. My concern is what if, given the current semester, I pass Phys II with a C? That then leaves a C and a C- (from OChem I) on my transcript. My hope is that I will excel this summer and receive a far superior grade in OChem I. But, I'm still concerned that my undergrad GPA, which was satisfactory, is now lower -- since enrolling in the DIY post-bac -- and will significantly diminish my chances of being accepted into any medical program.

I do understand that some medical programs will take a more holistic approach regarding the application process but what I want to know is -- am I overthinking this? Am I worrying too much?

I feel that I cannot re-take any science course as: (1) I'm already taking these courses in a DIY post-bac, and (2) unless absolutely needed (like OChem I), I don't believe its advisable to retake courses within such a short time frame. This form of academic GPA "padding" I'm sure is highly frowned upon.

What next? Do I continue down this path? Or am I simply fooling myself?

 

[referee3]

Agree with above. It's sad but once you've messed up a post bacc it's time to move on and start on plan B. That's really your last shot.

 

[ReggieNoble22]

Just curious, are you officially qualified to run that clinic and do what you say you do? Those tasks are really out of the scope of a pre-med volunteer and it might raise eyebrows unless you have the qualifications to be doing those things.

Just curious what tasks that he posted are out of the scope of his work?

I've been doing some work as a medical assistant (without certification) and I take vitals as well as patient histories, doctor's notes, billing, etc.
Should I be worried about raising these same eyebrows?

 

[blueharbor]

Whoa...slow down everyone. Post-baccs done for GPA improvement should be knocked out of the park. But if you're doing the post-bacc as a non-traditional student who is taking college-level science courses for the first time, you will be evaluated more or less like other undergrads taking their prereqs. Two Cs in prereqs is not enough to make you automatically ineligible for all MD schools, and it's definitely not enough to rule out DO. But you will need to work very hard to make up for them. The typical advice given on SDN for this situation is to take a bucket of upper-level science courses after the prereqs - enough to bring your sGPA and uGPA back to healthy levels and demonstrate that those Cs were a fluke and you can handle challenging science courses.

But you need to get straight A's from here on out, which means identifying exactly where you're going wrong and making serious changes in your approach. It's not too late, but you have to fix what you're doing wrong now to have a chance at medical school.

 

[Series2]

Thank you all for your replies. First, (addressing Ismet) I have had extensive training and have been approved by the medical school in order to perform the tasks I am performing. Yes, these tasks are not normally bestowed upon a pre-medical student but the competition for this opportunity was immense and I was fortunate enough to have this opportunity. Second, though my automatic response was to start exploring Plan B (as mentioned by Goro and Referee3) I do appreciate BlueHarbor's observation. I am a non-traditional student in a DIY post-bac taking these courses for the first time - ever.

The common theme is for me to identify why I keep having troubles. I agree. Can anyone offer some advice as to why I'm failing the exams? I ace the quizzes and assigned homework but keep, repeatedly, failing the exams. I'm very frustrated and know this is what is prohibiting me from succeeding in the course. I speak with the professors but they can only offer so much assistance. How did you guys study for the advanced science courses? I use Quizlet, Kahn academy, the assigned book and Mastering(Class).

Thank you all as I don't want to give up on the MD/DO route but also don't know where else to seek advice.

 

[Ismet]

Just curious what tasks that he posted are out of the scope of his work?

I've been doing some work as a medical assistant (without certification) and I take vitals as well as patient histories, doctor's notes, billing, etc.
Should I be worried about raising these same eyebrows?

I would err on the side of getting certified to be an MA if you're going to be doing that work. Perhaps others can chime in. It probably walks the line between questionable and fine.

 

[W19]

Time for you to consider podiatry, pharm school or PA... Classes in med school are lot tougher than classes in undergrad. These classes last one month or less and they expect you know everything. With these string of Cs, I am not sure that adcoms will take a chance on you.

 

[W19]

Thank you all for your replies. First, (addressing Ismet) I have had extensive training and have been approved by the medical school in order to perform the tasks I am performing. Yes, these tasks are not normally bestowed upon a pre-medical student but the competition for this opportunity was immense and I was fortunate enough to have this opportunity. Second, though my automatic response was to start exploring Plan B (as mentioned by Goro and Referee3) I do appreciate BlueHarbor's observation. I am a non-traditional student in a DIY post-bac taking these courses for the first time - ever.

The common theme is for me to identify why I keep having troubles. I agree. Can anyone offer some advice as to why I'm failing the exams? I ace the quizzes and assigned homework but keep, repeatedly, failing the exams. I'm very frustrated and know this is what is prohibiting me from succeeding in the course. I speak with the professors but they can only offer so much assistance. How did you guys study for the advanced science courses? I use Quizlet, Kahn academy, the assigned book and Mastering(Class).

Thank you all as I don't want to give up on the MD/DO route but also don't know where else to seek advice.

Read the book once and d0 a lot of questions/problems... That's what work for most people.

 

[GUH]

Background: I have a BA (3.5 GPA) and MA (3.3 GPA) in a particular field within the humanities. I have worked professionally for a number of years but decided, after much thought, to return to my original undergrad goal of applying to medical school. The DIY post-bac program aimed at my "career changer" status-- as their isn't an official post-bac program at my school -- would be a total of 6 semesters, including 2 summer semesters. I have to take the pre-reqs of GChem, GBio, OChem, Phys, BioChem and Calc as I have already taken Stats.

Present: I have successfully completed GChem, GBio and Phys I. Unfortunately, I received a C- in OChem I and will be retaking OChem I and II (in different sessions) this summer. I'm currently enrolled in Phys II, which I fear may end up being another C and Calc (I'm more optimistic). I plan on taking BioChem and Psych this fall. In addition, I have 200+ hours of hands-on volunteer experience (with a local top-tier medical school run clinic) and 40+ shadowing hours. I also run the top-tier clinic on different dates, which includes administrative tasks as well as knowing and performing: BP, HR, RR, temp., glucose, PCP/insurance referrals, and PPD placements. Given, my background/upbringing is from an extremely underserved part of the country, my intention is to attend a medical program with an emphasis in rural health, so as to return "home" and serve the underserved.

Question(s): I have a list of 30 MD and DO programs that I will be applying to. My concern is what if, given the current semester, I pass Phys II with a C? That then leaves a C and a C- (from OChem I) on my transcript. My hope is that I will excel this summer and receive a far superior grade in OChem I. But, I'm still concerned that my undergrad GPA, which was satisfactory, is now lower -- since enrolling in the DIY post-bac -- and will significantly diminish my chances of being accepted into any medical program.

I do understand that some medical programs will take a more holistic approach regarding the application process but what I want to know is -- am I overthinking this? Am I worrying too much?

I feel that I cannot re-take any science course as: (1) I'm already taking these courses in a DIY post-bac, and (2) unless absolutely needed (like OChem I), I don't believe its advisable to retake courses within such a short time frame. This form of academic GPA "padding" I'm sure is highly frowned upon.

What next? Do I continue down this path? Or am I simply fooling myself?

If you can't handle the academics, you should not be volunteering. Grades come first. I don't disagree with the advice to change your plans but if you're going to continue on this path, you have to focus and get results.

 

[blueharbor]

Time for you to consider podiatry, pharm school or PA... Classes in med school are lot tougher than classes in undergrad. These classes last one month or less and they expect you know everything. With these string of Cs, I am not sure that adcoms will take a chance on you.

Two C's amid several good grades are not a string of C's, and do not rule out medical school. However, it does sound like the OP needs to reform their studying habits to succeed in medical school.

 

[W19]

Two C's amid several good grades are not a string of C's, and do not rule out medical school. However, it does sound like the OP needs to reform their studying habits to succeed in medical school.

I agree that OP still has a chance, but from now and on he should start getting As or start thinking about plan B.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Don't you have to be a nurse or above to do ppd placements? How are you legally doing those things?

 

[WingedOx]

Don't you have to be a nurse or above to do ppd placements? How are you legally doing those things?

Eh, no idea about the requirements, but it's not like it requires all that much training to do. In med school, they basically paired us up in the lab, gave us needles and told us to stab away at each other.

 

[username456789]

Don't you have to be a nurse or above to do ppd placements? How are you legally doing those things?

It varies by state to state. That said, as a premed student I work as a medical assistant for over a year, giving immunizations, performing phlebotomy, performing vitals and doing lots more, all with no formal certification and only on-the-job training. It was technically performed under the license of the supervising physician with whom I worked. He obviously trusted me a great deal. It never raised one eyebrow, and I had multiple interviewers tell me that my clinical experience stood out above many/most other premed students.

 

[username456789]

Whoa...slow down everyone. Post-baccs done for GPA improvement should be knocked out of the park. But if you're doing the post-bacc as a non-traditional student who is taking college-level science courses for the first time, you will be evaluated more or less like other undergrads taking their prereqs. Two Cs in prereqs is not enough to make you automatically ineligible for all MD schools, and it's definitely not enough to rule out DO. But you will need to work very hard to make up for them. The typical advice given on SDN for this situation is to take a bucket of upper-level science courses after the prereqs - enough to bring your sGPA and uGPA back to healthy levels and demonstrate that those Cs were a fluke and you can handle challenging science courses.

But you need to get straight A's from here on out, which means identifying exactly where you're going wrong and making serious changes in your approach. It's not too late, but you have to fix what you're doing wrong now to have a chance at medical school.

You're confusing a post bacc with a special masters program (SMP). Post bacc programs are specifically for people who did not take the science courses required for medical school in undergrad. SMPs are generally used to try to improve a relatively poor undergrad GPA for someone who has already taken most of the medical school prerequisites. It is their chance to show that, despite having not done particularly well in undergraduate science prerequisite courses, they are able to handle a rigorous, more advanced scientific curriculum such what is found in medical school.

 

[tiedyeddog]

It varies by state to state. That said, as a premed student I work as a medical assistant for over a year, giving immunizations, performing phlebotomy, performing vitals and doing lots more, all with no formal certification and only on-the-job training. It was technically performed under the license of the supervising physician with whom I worked. He obviously trusted me a great deal. It never raised one eyebrow, and I had multiple interviewers tell me that my clinical experience stood out above many/most other premed students.

Gotcha, I believe in my state you have to get some kind of license to be an MA so that is why I questioned it.

 

[blueharbor]

You're confusing a post bacc with a special masters program (SMP). Post bacc programs are specifically for people who did not take the science courses required for medical school in undergrad. SMPs are generally used to try to improve a relatively poor undergrad GPA for someone who has already taken most of the medical school prerequisites. It is their chance to show that, despite having not done particularly well in undergraduate science prerequisite courses, they are able to handle a rigorous, more advanced scientific curriculum such what is found in medical school.

Did you mean to reply to me? I was telling others on this thread much the same thing.

Just a couple notes on your post - SMP's don't improve your undergrad GPA since they are considered master's level courses, but they do help you get into med school if you perform well, as you said. You're correct that post bacc programs are usually for people who didn't take the prereqs, but DIY postbaccs can be done solely for GPA improvement (when the student has already taken the prereqs). Many people on this thread seem(ed) to think that the OP is in this situation (GPA improvement), when he/she is actually doing a DIY postbacc for the prereqs. As you suggest, performance in prereq postbacc classes won't be judged the same as a student's performance in an SMP (or a DIY postbacc for GPA improvement, which is also relatively high-stakes since the student has already messed up.)

 

[ZedsDed]

Thank you all for your replies. First, (addressing Ismet) I have had extensive training and have been approved by the medical school in order to perform the tasks I am performing. Yes, these tasks are not normally bestowed upon a pre-medical student but the competition for this opportunity was immense and I was fortunate enough to have this opportunity. Second, though my automatic response was to start exploring Plan B (as mentioned by Goro and Referee3) I do appreciate BlueHarbor's observation. I am a non-traditional student in a DIY post-bac taking these courses for the first time - ever.

The common theme is for me to identify why I keep having troubles. I agree. Can anyone offer some advice as to why I'm failing the exams? I ace the quizzes and assigned homework but keep, repeatedly, failing the exams. I'm very frustrated and know this is what is prohibiting me from succeeding in the course. I speak with the professors but they can only offer so much assistance. How did you guys study for the advanced science courses? I use Quizlet, Kahn academy, the assigned book and Mastering(Class).

Thank you all as I don't want to give up on the MD/DO route but also don't know where else to seek advice.

Sounds like you've had these problems for a while. The difference is that now you are in truly punishing classes, and your B+ average will turn into a C. I would suggest asking yourself if this is really where your talents lie, as I doubt this is simply just a case of poor study habits. As for whether you have a chance or not, that depends on whether or not you get straight A's from here forward, and how much that will move your GPA.

Good luck

 

[IlDestriero]

I would agree on looking into plan B.
You're taking an abbreviated course load and not excelling. That is a red flag.
Get As or start exploring other careers.
As for the whole rural medicine thing, everyone wants to do that... until they apply for plastics. Grades and your MCAT score close the deal, the rest is just conversation.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Sorry OP but there's no reason to believe you will succeed in med school. This cycle is 100% out of the question unless your mcat is awesome (dubious). If you want to plan for the more distant future, perhaps there is a road back.