failing your first semester at a caribbean school

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doc-Oc said:
does failing your first semester (med 1) at a caribbean school highly lower your residency chances?
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Unfortunately, I'd say a qualified yes. However, I suppose if you have to fail, then the "best" time to fail is your first semester. You can't do anything about your failure now, so just keep moving forward. Rock the rest of your med school (especially Step 1 and 2CK/CS). It helps a lot more too if you're aiming for not-as-competitive specialties like IM, FM, psych. Good luck.
 
bashwell said:
Unfortunately, I'd say a qualified yes. However, I suppose if you have to fail, then the "best" time to fail is your first semester. You can't do anything about your failure now, so just keep moving forward. Rock the rest of your med school (especially Step 1 and 2CK/CS). It helps a lot more too if you're aiming for not-as-competitive specialties like IM, FM, psych. Good luck.
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I am aiming for FM, thank you for your constructive reply 🙂 .
 
Yes. Intuitively I'd guess it will just about kill your chances for any US residency.
 
I really hope you find a way to bounce back! But at this point you may very well be out of luck.
 
no it astronomically lowers your residency chances. Going to the carib highly lowers your residency chances on its own right.
 
As long as your score astronomically high on the STEP 1 and jump through the rest of the bull**** hurdles Carib programs offer AND if you are content with FM in a location that will most likely NOT be your top choice... then yeah. You SHOULD be alright. But I would say it's time to jump ship and not go thru with the rest of the program. Come back to the states, pursue PA or NP or RN and you will thank me rather than wasting more time and more blood, sweat, and tears to get the very very short end of the stick when you find yourself delaying graduation, going thru endless match cycles, and finally giving up. NOT SAYING this will be you, but I'm just saying that if you are failing now... it's time to not risk it... especially in a Carib program that accepts anybody.

There's a reason it's easy to get in... but getting out is ridiculous.
 
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chipwhitley said:
Hey how about we stop piling on this poor guy.
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Shouldn't be a surprise here. Carib students get piled on yet they keep coming back. It's like they go to the carib to delay their punishment until graduation and come here to get the instant punishment. Gluttons!
 
TBV said:
Shouldn't be a surprise here. Carib students get piled on yet they keep coming back. It's like they go to the carib to delay their punishment until graduation and come here to get the instant punishment. Gluttons!
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Lol there is a LOT of carib hate on these boards. I don't look down on Caribs but I hate their schools for preying on their dreams, especially the shady ones that have no chance of matching them and charge a boatload. At least SGU and Ross can deliver because they pay big bucks to hospitals where their students rotate to ensure they get residency spots.
 
LLCoolK said:
If those students were smart, they would have applied to DO and have multiple acceptances and have nearly 100% chance of matching.
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No Asian wants to have DO after his/her name. It's a constant reminder of their inferiority. At least carib grads don't have to put MD (Carib) next to their names. 😛
 
chipwhitley said:
Lol there is a LOT of carib hate on these boards. I don't look down on Caribs but I hate their schools for preying on their dreams, especially the shady ones that have no chance of matching them and charge a boatload. At least SGU and Ross can deliver because they pay big bucks to hospitals where their students rotate to ensure they get residency spots.
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1. I don't think there's much Caribbean "hate" on this board. It's more that people don't want college grads to inadvertently take an expensive but extremely low yield path, and don't hold their punches. But it's more a public service message than a "hate" on individuals. I think most will give kudos to the small minority who are objectively successful via this route.
2. SGU and Ross do pay for rotations but that absolutely does not "ensure" residency spots. That's a myth those schools would love prospective applicants to believe. These two schools do better than a lot of the lesser offshore schools but "better than awful" really doesn't equal "good". These places still have extremely high attrition, hold people up on internal hurdles and play loose with their reported numbers. They should never be other than a last resort.
 
Law2Doc said:
2. SGU and Ross do pay for rotations but that absolutely does not "ensure" residency spots. That's a myth those schools would love prospective applicants to believe. These two schools do better than a lot of the lesser offshore schools but "better than awful" really doesn't equal "good". These places still have extremely high attrition, hold people up on internal hurdles and play loose with their reported numbers. They should never be other than a last resort.
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Well have you seen the resident rosters of those programs where Ross and SGU students rotate? There's an extremely disproportionate number of students from SGU/Ross there. So their attempt to buy spots is working well.
 
chipwhitley said:
Well have you seen the resident rosters of those programs where Ross and SGU students rotate? There's an extremely disproportionate number of students from SGU/Ross there. So their attempt to buy spots is working well.
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If you rotate there you are auditioning, so you would expect it to be somewhat disproportionate. Even with non-offshore programs the odds of matching in some specialties is much higher if you do an away rotation and they get to see you in that setting.

But my point is lots of grads from these schools still have trouble getting residencies, so it's simply false to say they "ensure" you a spot. That's the part of your post that was objectionable.
 
Law2Doc said:
If you rotate there you are auditioning, so you would expect it to be somewhat disproportionate. Even with non-offshore programs the odds of matching in some specialties is much higher if you do an away rotation and they get to see you in that setting.

But my point is lots of grads from these schools still have trouble getting residencies, so it's simply false to say they "ensure" you a spot. That's the part of your post that was objectionable.
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Yeah, you're right. They don't "ensure" you a spot at all. I chose the wrong word there.

But it really is striking how many people they take. I understand if people rotate there, they'd take a disproportionate number. But I'm talking like 70-80% of the residents from SGU in a couple cases. That definitely looks like they're straight up buying spots.
 
Law2Doc said:
If you rotate there you are auditioning, so you would expect it to be somewhat disproportionate. Even with non-offshore programs the odds of matching in some specialties is much higher if you do an away rotation and they get to see you in that setting.

But my point is lots of grads from these schools still have trouble getting residencies, so it's simply false to say they "ensure" you a spot. That's the part of your post that was objectionable.
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Basically this. I have no problem with Carib grads- I've worked with some fantastic Carib grads in the past. Hell, my letter writer was one, and he's a damn good physician. But the schools themselves don't even come close to guaranteeing a residency, and are a gamble for anyone to take. The best ones are matching around 80% these days- I wouldn't recommend my sister take a 20% chance of ruining her life, so I won't recommend it to a stranger either.
 
chipwhitley said:
No Asian wants to have DO after his/her name. It's a constant reminder of their inferiority. At least carib grads don't have to put MD (Carib) next to their names. 😛
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Stupid move on their part.
Most of my DO colleagues in residency and fellowship are called Dr. X. Their license is not restricted and they don't make any less money that MD's after residency.
Their residency choice/options are far better than most any Caribbean grad.
You may see a DO at the end of their lab coats but no one cares...
 
tartesos said:
Stupid move on their part.
Most of my DO colleagues in residency and fellowship are called Dr. X. Their license is not restricted and they don't make any less money that MD's after residency.
Their residency choice/options are far better than most any Caribbean grad.
You may see a DO at the end of their lab coats but no one cares...
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Literally everyone is Dr. something nowadays, from the physical therapist to the podiatrist to the DNP to the random hospital administrator with an educational doctorate (???) who inexplicably wears a white coat (yes, this is someone at my school). "MD" is the distinguishing factor. 🙂 You'd better pay attention to the end of the lab coat if you wanna make sure you're seeing a "real" doctor.

Edit: Note I don't have anything against DO's. I'm not being serious here.
 
chipwhitley said:
Well have you seen the resident rosters of those programs where Ross and SGU students rotate? There's an extremely disproportionate number of students from SGU/Ross there. So their attempt to buy spots is working well.
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The places Ross students rotate at aren't exactly in positions to be choosy.
 
WingedOx said:
The places Ross students rotate at aren't exactly in positions to be choosy.
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Well when you have dozens of Caribbean schools whose graduates are of no great difference in quality and you see a huge predominance of one school in a residency program where they are already spending a great deal of money sending students, it's not a stretch to think that key people are being paid off to make that happen... and it's working.
 
chipwhitley said:
Literally everyone is Dr. something nowadays, from the physical therapist to the podiatrist to the DNP to the random hospital administrator with an educational doctorate (???) who inexplicably wears a white coat (yes, this is someone at my school). "MD" is the distinguishing factor. 🙂 You'd better pay attention to the end of the lab coat if you wanna make sure you're seeing a "real" doctor.

Edit: Note I don't have anything against DO's. I'm not being serious here.
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From here it sounds like you think DO's are not "real doctors". That looks like something against them, being that so far from the truth.
 
Señor S said:
Yes. Intuitively I'd guess it will just about kill your chances for any US residency.
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TBV said:
no it astronomically lowers your residency chances. Going to the carib highly lowers your residency chances on its own right.
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^^^^^^This is sad as hell, but true. I'm in favor of creating more American schools and residencies, not even allowing Caribs to exist, or allowing IMGs to come here unless they are extraordinary. American doctors should be trained here.


If I come across a young college student with really low stats and dreams of being a physician , I don't tell them not to go to a carrib school. When people are told not to do something because its stupid, they see it as a challenge and try to do it anyway. That's the reason the Antivaxx movement hasn't completely died out yet, people calling antivaxxers stupid and wrong only makes them cling to their argument more, even though the antivaxxer sometimes know they are hurting their children. I also see this a lot in people who get hurt doing Crossfit. Dr tells them " you probably shouldn't do deadlifts or you will injure your back." " Patients tell their friends, the doctor said I could never do deadlifts again, I showed him!" Couple months later they are hurt again. So how do you change the mind of someone who is about to do something stupid? I think just provide them with information and let them make their own decision, don't challenge them. Make sure they know about DO schools, provide info on the match statistics, and walk away.
 
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tartesos said:
From here it sounds like you think DO's are not "real doctors". That looks like something against them, being that so far from the truth.
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The whole thing was a joke. I was just making fun of certain people's misconceptions about DOs in a sarcastic manner. I know DOs are real doctors.
 
jordansetron said:
Tell that to all the indians with 3.8 GPAs and 30+ MCATS who didnt get accepted due to being "overrepresented" in medicine
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It's probably a good thing because of lot of indians go into medicine because of the social and family pressure moreso than actually wanting to do medicine. This is a documented phenomenon. Although, I've had friends who didn't want to do medicine forced into the carribean by their parents when they didn't get accepted in the US, which turned out to be disaster.
 
chipwhitley said:
It's probably a good thing because of lot of indians go into medicine because of the social and family pressure moreso than actually wanting to do medicine. This is a documented phenomenon. Although, I've had friends who didn't want to do medicine forced into the carribean by their parents when they didn't get accepted in the US, which turned out to be disaster.
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Honestly, I've heard of this a lot, too.

It's always amusing to run into these parents at social functions who are so convinced that the MD degree is the only way their children are going to validate their existence or be anything worthwhile. They end up doing mediocre in undergrad, going to an island school, either failing out or not matching....yet somehow I still get the "oh..and you're just a dentist? That's so sweet! comments from them
 
fancymylotus said:
Honestly, I've heard of this a lot, too.

It's always amusing to run into these parents at social functions who are so convinced that the MD degree is the only way their children are going to validate their existence or be anything worthwhile. They end up doing mediocre in undergrad, going to an island school, either failing out or not matching....yet somehow I still get the "oh..and you're just a dentist? That's so sweet! comments from them
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Just smile and wave!
Rolling eyes is also allowed.
 
fancymylotus said:
Honestly, I've heard of this a lot, too.

It's always amusing to run into these parents at social functions who are so convinced that the MD degree is the only way their children are going to validate their existence or be anything worthwhile. They end up doing mediocre in undergrad, going to an island school, either failing out or not matching....yet somehow I still get the "oh..and you're just a dentist? That's so sweet! comments from them
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OP goes to AUA. The one person I know who went there was pretty much caught in that situation. Did so-so in undergrad and was pressured into a "what are you doing with your life?" (though admittedly a good chunk of that pressure was self-inflicted). Thankfully said person dropped out after a semester for non-academic reasons, got the academic skills straightened out, did a post-bac and is now at an LCME school.
 
fancymylotus said:
Honestly, I've heard of this a lot, too.

It's always amusing to run into these parents at social functions who are so convinced that the MD degree is the only way their children are going to validate their existence or be anything worthwhile. They end up doing mediocre in undergrad, going to an island school, either failing out or not matching....yet somehow I still get the "oh..and you're just a dentist? That's so sweet! comments from them
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Yeah for some reason they won't even consider sending their kids to dentistry school instead of medical school, even though dentistry is a profession that's secure and pays very well.
 
chipwhitley said:
Literally everyone is Dr. something nowadays, from the physical therapist to the podiatrist to the DNP to the random hospital administrator with an educational doctorate (???) who inexplicably wears a white coat (yes, this is someone at my school). "MD" is the distinguishing factor. 🙂 You'd better pay attention to the end of the lab coat if you wanna make sure you're seeing a "real" doctor.

Edit: Note I don't have anything against DO's. I'm not being serious here.
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I know you arent being serious. Who doesnt love to rag on DOs on this forum right?

Not terribly relevant to this forum but I told my uncle that the MD degree is the one that you get not only if you train in the US, but also in foreign countries and the caribbean but the DO physician degree is only offered in the US. He immediately decided on the spot that DOs were better just due to that. He now only considers DOs to be "real doctors". go figure
 
Dentistry, from my point of view, is waaaayyyyy better a career in terms of compensation and job satisfaction than medicine.
 
jordansetron said:
I know you arent being serious. Who doesnt love to rag on DOs on this forum right?

Not terribly relevant to this forum but I told my uncle that the MD degree is the one that you get not only if you train in the US, but also in foreign countries and the caribbean but the DO physician degree is only offered in the US. He immediately decided on the spot that DOs were better just due to that. He now only considers DOs to be "real doctors". go figure
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Haha, funny story!

Is it really only offered in the United States? I thought it might be offered in Europe as well. Are DO degrees accepted anywhere abroad? I know many foreign schools give out different types of degrees including MBBS, and they are accepted as equivalent to MD here.
 
chipwhitley said:
Haha, funny story!

Is it really only offered in the United States? I thought it might be offered in Europe as well. Are DO degrees accepted anywhere abroad? I know many foreign schools give out different types of degrees including MBBS, and they are accepted as equivalent to MD here.
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The DO degree does exist in SOME other countries but its really just a chiropractic type degree for only OMM stuff. That being said the majority of european countries recognize the US DO degree as a physicians degree and more countries are added every year. Theres a list somewhere on this forum. I think @Mad Jack has one. I thought MBBS was just converted to MD. I havent really seen any MBBS in practice here in florida
 
jordansetron said:
The DO degree does exist in SOME other countries but its really just a chiropractic type degree for only OMM stuff. That being said the majority of european countries recognize the US DO degree as a physicians degree and more countries are added every year. Theres a list somewhere on this forum. I think @Mad Jack has one. I thought MBBS was just converted to MD. I havent really seen any MBBS in practice here in florida
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I have seen some docs using MBBS, there are actually a couple attendings from England at my school that write MBBS after their names.
 
jordansetron said:
The DO degree does exist in SOME other countries but its really just a chiropractic type degree for only OMM stuff. That being said the majority of european countries recognize the US DO degree as a physicians degree and more countries are added every year. Theres a list somewhere on this forum. I think @Mad Jack has one. I thought MBBS was just converted to MD. I havent really seen any MBBS in practice here in florida
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MBBS is used by a lot of staff in the US, but many just call themselves MDs erroneously.
 
chipwhitley said:
Is it really only offered in the United States? I thought it might be offered in Europe as well. Are DO degrees accepted anywhere abroad? I know many foreign schools give out different types of degrees including MBBS, and they are accepted as equivalent to MD here.
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http://en.usatedu.org/colleges/medicine/
This joke of a Carib also offers the DO degree. It used to offer a DO->MD program :eyebrow:

chipwhitley said:
They are allowed to use the MD if they choose because it's considered equivalent by the medical boards.
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😏
 
doc-Oc said:
does failing your first semester (med 1) at a caribbean school highly lower your residency chances?
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To get back on track with the OP, the answer is that of course, it matters. How much it matters is hard to say. It really depends upon whether this semester was your "best work" or not. If it was your best work, then the answer is clear that going forward will not be very successful. If it's not your best work, then two questions: 1) Why is it not your best work?; and 2) Can you really do better?

For example, in an older thread you mentioned that you still play xbox 360 quite a bit. Yet you are failing medical school. This is not a good combination.

If you were to be a superstar from here on out, you'll probably do OK. If you get just passing grades, low scores on the USMLE (and perhaps 1 fail along the way), you may find you have limited options. Just passing isn't going to do you many favors.

The safe thing to do is drop out. Continuing is risky. If you continue, you need to put 120% effort into this. And med school only gets harder as you proceed.
 
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