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Family med MD/DO : thoughts on retirement

Discussion in 'Family Medicine' started by scharnhorst, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. scharnhorst

    10+ Year Member

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    I'm 39 have been in practice after residency for approx 7 + yrs

    Just wanted to see what the thoughts are of other doctors on retirement

    DO you want to retire early i.e before 60 ? if so what is your strategy ?

    Do you plan to work part-time after 65 as long as you could and why ?

    Any senior docs here who are working in their 60s and 70s what they think are limiting factors for them and major challenges?

    Thanks
     
    #1 scharnhorst, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  2. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    I'm out in four years (I'll be 57). My strategy...? I've been saving money since I was 22 years old. ;)

    I'll keep my license active for a couple of years, but if I haven't done anything significant with it by then, I'll let it expire.
     
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  3. OP
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    scharnhorst

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    nice
    I only started saving about 8 yrs ago uggh
    On the bright side I would like to work as long as possible even if part-time , I may have no other choice yikes
     
  4. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    I intend to retire while I'm still young enough to enjoy it.
     
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  5. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    I want to retire before 50. Plan on investing heavy and living a middle class life
     
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  6. OP
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    scharnhorst

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    good for you
    What do you want to do when you are fully retired , if you don't mind sharing ( forgive me for being intrusive )
     
  7. OP
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    scharnhorst

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    I do that as well , apart for my kid I have not added any expenses since residency

    how old are you ?
     
  8. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    Travel.
     
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  9. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    33, won't be done with residency until 37. Need to save 2.5 million to retire on a humble 100k drawdown per year on the 4% rule. Working my ass off until 50, I think I can pull it off, if not earlier
     
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  10. OP
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    scharnhorst

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    you seem to have researched it well
    which source did you use ?
     
  11. Slevin

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    Retire from the military in 9 years. Will be <50. After that who knows.
     
  12. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    I don't even know anymore because I learned this stuff so long ago, I used to be big on reading the financial independence and early retirement forums, used to read the WSJ regularly, etc etc.
     
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  13. NITRAS

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    You can retire when your assets surport your lifestyle.

    Personally, I plan on doing something till I can’t. I’d get bored, and my wife would shoot me.
     
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  14. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    There are people for that.
     
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  15. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    I'm with you. I quit a job last year and they wanted rid of me as well so I got 6 weeks of basically paid leave. I was miserable. I enjoy working apparently.

    Though as I get older I do plan to work less. I have an uncle who is also an FP, age 68. He takes probably a solid 8-10 weeks off per year at this point. My ideal would be that plus working fewer days/week - say 3-3.5.

    As background, I'm 35 and been out of residency for 6 years. My new as of last week employer lets us buy into the state retirement plan so I can retire with full benefits at 63.
     
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  16. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    One of the ideally nice things about retirement is many of your costs should be decreased if not gone. Mortgage payments and child expenses being the two most expensive usually. Take those out of the equation and 100k is pretty comfortable. My wife and I lived on that in residency and subtract out the mortgage and we'd have been pretty happy.
     
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  17. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    With my wife and I children aren't an option, so that makes early retirement that much easier to save for. Couple that with our living in a 120k house in a small city that I should easily be able to pay down and remodel after residency and in an area where my specialty commands double the national average if you're willing to work for it and saving that money becomes so, so much easier. The only thing that is really going to slow me down is my enormous student debt

    Added bonus- if all of that 100k is coming from stocks, you're taxed at capital gains rates which are MUCH lower than income. By carefully balancing what you are selling and when, you can pay very little in taxes overall
     
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  18. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    I recalled all of that (well except the wife part, is that new?) but didn't want to be the one to put any of your personal info here.

    I'm sure you've been told this, but as soon as you can refinance that loan. My wife went from 6.8% to 2.25% just by suddenly making attending money (assuming your credit score doesn't suck). Cut 2 years off of repayment and still pay around 10% less per month.
     
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  19. septoplasty

    septoplasty Exceptional
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    Just turned 30, in practice for a year, fellowship was a year ago.
    Based on goals right now, saving $6k a month, with target retirement age 55, with fund of $5 million.
    Managed to invest in two side businesses in the hospitality area (2.5% x 2), to hopefully provide some passive income of 2-5k each/month in the next 3-5 years.
    But current living situation is: Driving a 10 year old car, living in an apartment for $800 a month, no cable tv, bare minimum internet. Lol. I do however go on vacation 8-10 weeks a year (which what keeps me going).
     
  20. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    So my big fear with that is that I have health issues and could end up not living/working many years post-residency if things don't go well (something that also has pushed me to work hard for early retirement). I'm also basically uninsurable from a life insurance perspective. I'm worried that if I go private, the loans won't be forgiven in the case of death, which will lead to the lender coming after my assets. It's tough because it's a game of chance. Normally life insurance could balance this out. I wonder if I could find a lender with a death/ disability option for an extra fraction of a percent similar to what many credit cards offer.
     
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  21. chudat

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    Married? Kids? I see you conveniently left out the most expensive expenses....lol
     
  22. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    Refinance places (at least ours) still forgives at death. I made very sure to check that. Will do the same on at least total disability (can't remember the exact terms for anything less than that).
     
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  23. septoplasty

    septoplasty Exceptional
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    Ah yes, nope, neither of those.. yet Lol
    That will likely cause a significant dent in all of my ''plans''...
    Although I hope that my passive income can still contribute to my retirement
     
  24. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    Looks like Sallie Mae Smart Option and a few others do. Good I brought it up, made me re-evaluate, and it looks like private might very well be the way to go. Here's to hoping rates stay this low for the next 3.5 years...
     
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  25. Pugsnhugs

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    So do you guys not have student loan payments? Or were you able to pay off your loans quickly?
     
  26. NITRAS

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    You should be getting insurance anyway. I have about $3M on me (plus one years salary through work), and I paid my student loans off a while back (actually in residency).

    If you pay off your loans quick, like 2-3 years, the difference in a few percent interest isn’t that big of a deal.

    As VA hopeful did, you can have it pay off in case of death or disability, effectively it’s an insurance policy inside the loan. Usually it’s cheaper to get a straight insurance plan, as long as you can get it.
     
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  27. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    Between work and personal, I have 1.5M but my wife is also a physician so it doesn't have to be enough to support the family. Pays off loans, mortgage, schools for both kids with a good bit leftover (but not enough that my wife could stop working).

    There was no option in our refinance package to not include death/disability.

    If you can get a loan refinanced at say 3% it can often make more sense to take the savings across the loan term and invest them.
     
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  28. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    I have conditions that make it essentially impossible to get a decent coverage. Like, I'd love to but the most any company would offer was 100k.
     
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  29. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    Lots of jobs will offer decent coverage regardless.
     
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  30. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    Hey if I can find it I'm down, but most jobs require evidence of insurability beyond the 100k level, which I never pass the screens for
     
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  31. Cranjis McBasketball

    Cranjis McBasketball SDN Bronze Donor
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    For those of you that refinanced to low interest rates, do you plan on maximizing the length of time to pay off your debts by only paying the monthly minimum? Obviously in hopes that the extra money you would have used towards loans could be invested with a higher rate of return??
     
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  32. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    Every job I've had offers base of 2X salary up to 500k without any underwriting. Disability 50% salary up to 10k/month same.

    Heck, move to SC and I can have you a job next week offer exactly that.
     
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  33. petegriffin

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    Refinanced 6.8 -> 3.75% with autopay. Paid loans within 12 mos, about 250k. Had $50k cash savings (1 yr emergency fund). Liquidated my meager investments 8 mos ago (but kept my 403b because it was free money from my prior job) when the markets were flat and down, although it had good returns within past 24 most, thanks Pres Trump. Doesn't make sense to save if u have debt. Get rid of it (loans) ASAP
     
  34. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    Lol, I'll see if I can convince my wife to move. It might just be my experience since most of my jobs have paid around 50-60k base, so 100k was roughly 2x. Bigger salaries within physician groups should naturally have a higher payout. Definitely a game changer for me financial planning wise if I can land a position that can net me at least a 500k payout.
     
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  35. VA Hopeful Dr

    VA Hopeful Dr Senior Member
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    We are desperate for psych here. And if this smallish town doesn't do it for you, we're about 30 minutes from here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...enville/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8a24dcb48e2a
     
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  36. OP
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    scharnhorst

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    any words of advice for me as I will probably will never marry and was never married
    I have 1 kid 4 yo
    what is the best financial steps ? I 'm doing the usual I max my retirement , I live like a resident and I dont overspend
    I have zero student loans and no debt except for a modest car loan

    I dont own a house , I have one low rise investment property ( not a great money maker btw I do okay make a little profit but not much I only did it as an experiment I will not gt more properties its time consuming unless you outsource everything and then it cuts into your profit margin)
    since my interests are model building, flea markets and book clubs I dont even travel a lot usually within the country to museums or airshows

    so my expenses are much less than an average doctor
    I feel like married people accumulate more assets though maybe because of tax breaks or whatever
    what can a single person like me do more ? thanks

    financial planners IMHO are blood sucking parasites every time I approach them I feel like I'm on a date with a gold digger and when I ask family and friends for advice they all say GET MARRIED your wife will help you manage your finances
     
    #36 scharnhorst, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  37. septoplasty

    septoplasty Exceptional
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    Well, I don't think you should get married.. (atleast not to save money) haha. That won't work.

    Also, sounds like the only negative debt you have is that car loan, i'd pay that off. Generally a really poor idea to finance cars as you're putting a big chunk of money into something that depreciates daily.

    Getting ride of that rental property sounds like a good idea, investing in a real estate property that lends to business (strip plazas, gas stations etc.), is a better idea. But, real estate is generally a great ''investment'', as you have a physical asset.

    To save some $$ on taxes, might consider doing some locums work as a 1099, it'll benefit you in terms of some deductions to lower your tax rate.

    I guess just simple things, so far..
     
  38. OP
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    scharnhorst

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    thanks I did not know that !
    I firmly believe that too but all my close friends , siblings are married and they say "they save a ton on taxes" I did my math myself and with the help of an accountant in all scenarios I see no real difference
     
  39. OP
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    scharnhorst

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    thanks , what is opinion on crowd funding when it comes to things like this ?
    Is owning gas stations strip plazas etc time consuming in terms of their upkeep ?
    I read the "real estate investing" for dummies book yrs ago was good intro for residential properties only
     
  40. septoplasty

    septoplasty Exceptional
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    Just like any other property, it requires time. If you do it passively, just lending, its much easier to manage. Sure your reward is less, but your risk, liability and headache is also less (as a small % investor). You just have to find people you trust who are looking for raising funds.
     
  41. smq123

    smq123 John William Waterhouse
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    The tax benefits of marriage are frequently overblown and overrated.

    It depends on what your spouse does and how much he/she earns. Two physician households tend to lose a lot of tax breaks and pay a ton more in taxes each year.
     
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  42. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    My wife and I have always used an accountant for our taxes, and each year they would look at both scenarios (filing jointly or filing separately). It always made more sense to file jointly. Granted, she never earned anything close to what I do, and now she's retired, so maybe it would be different in a two-high-earner household.
     
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  43. smq123

    smq123 John William Waterhouse
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    Yeah, when we crunch the numbers, we owe several thousands of dollars more. Plus, the child tax credits and homeowner tax credits disappear. There's no way around it.
     
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  44. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    People commonly do not understand that married filing separately is different from filing single. The tax brackets are different, the eligibility for deductions and credits are different, etc. Married filing separately is much worse than filing as married filing jointly or as two singles in the vast majority of cases for two individuals making $100k or more a year. However, you cannot legally file as single if you are married.

    Before the Trump era tax code changes, tax brackets jumped up for married couples when both partners made more than about $50-$60k/year. So if you had a housewife or househusband who stayed at home and made nothing or limited amounts, there was a benefit to being married. Alternatively, when two people making $250k came together (top bracket 33% as singles), they would end up in the $500k married bracket, which was the top bracket of 39.6% married. This ended up costing well over $10,000 a year in excess tax based on that factor alone.

    Now with the Trump era tax code changes, the married tax brackets are much more forgiving. When two people making $250k come together and get married for example, they start in the $250k 35% single bracket and both end up in the same top married bracket of 35%.

    Ok so the marriage penalty is gone you say? Not so fast in our case.

    The child tax credit cap is $400k for married filers, $200k for single filers. That's nice, except my partner makes under $200k and our combined income is over $400k. Filing as singles nets us the whole $2000 tax credit there per year per child. Getting married would cost us $2,000 per year per child.

    The standard deduction is now up to $12,000. It's $24,000 for married couples. Ok, so our house is in one of our names entirely. That means one of us as single can take the mortgage and property tax deductions plus other itemized deductions (~$40,000) and the other single can take the standard deduction ($12,000). By staying single this is a net deduction gain of $12,000 or almost $4,000 in the pocket per year.

    So by staying single, we continue to legally avoid paying Uncle Sam about $6,000/year. This amount would increase if we had more children. Before the Trump era tax changes, we saved about $16,000/year by staying single and not being married.

    I know... Everyone thinks I've misunderstood this. Others think our government can't possibly be penalizing people to be married. The reality is: "They don't think it be like it is, but it do". In other words, it's screwed up but it's true. I see no good reason why two working physicians should get married. There are no tax breaks and there could be significant penalties.
     
  45. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    Well, I agree that if your only motivation to get married is financial...don't. ;)
     
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  46. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    I don't see any motivation to get married. It's an old religious thing and I'm not religious.
     
  47. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    :shrug:
     
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  48. Trollest

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    How much did you have to spend for those 5%?
     
  49. NITRAS

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    Without going too much down the rabbit hole, there are many benefits to marriage that extend outside of the tax code and religion.
     
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  50. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
    Physician Gold Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 10+ Year Member

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