Quite honestly, though it may seem like I'm really trying to an argumentative tool, I would love for somebody to give me a solid response as to why you would enter medicine if you weren't serious about it. Tell me what you thought it was like going into medical school. Tell me how your priorities changed as you went through the process. Tell me what was so unexpected. Tell me why you deserve any more sympathy than people who entered the workforce straight out of college and are struggling as an underemployed ********er completing tasks of no consequence to the majority of humanity while trying to move up a social ladder that is largely stagnant. Because they get time to play Legos with their little son Timmy? How could you not forsee family as being an important part of your life? How could you not forsee the personal sacrificies you would have to make. Don't tell me to shut up or come back in five years you self-righteous dimwit. I want to know, so tell me something I'm not yet aware of. I'm listening.
fed up and wishing to pursue different careers
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Realest..
you sound like a bright guy/gal... but i dont kno how old you are... but even for argument sake, wouldnt you accept the possibility that things/emotions/directions change?
sure we should've realized all these sacrifices/hardships before deciding to go into medical school..... but, i can say for myself that as i've gotten older in this process, many of my previous convictions have changed or been altered to a degree.
its immature and somewhat patronizing to say that we should just 'suck it up' or 'had known better', as which the tone i feel you are implying.
you sound like a bright guy/gal... but i dont kno how old you are... but even for argument sake, wouldnt you accept the possibility that things/emotions/directions change?
sure we should've realized all these sacrifices/hardships before deciding to go into medical school..... but, i can say for myself that as i've gotten older in this process, many of my previous convictions have changed or been altered to a degree.
its immature and somewhat patronizing to say that we should just 'suck it up' or 'had known better', as which the tone i feel you are implying.
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First off, I'm entering med school, and I've found this forum really informative and enlightening. Im not posting here to pretend to know what its like for all you interns/residents.
Realest, Im glad you're sharing your opinion with everyone, considering the fact that you dont have any first-hand experience being a resident yourself. But you talk like you know what you're getting into, and that you will suck it up at all costs no matter what is thrown at you. Maybe you will, but maybe you are a rare breed of human or something. All the people posting in here are posting their thoughts and feelings for a reason, and it seems to me that although they may not have known what they were getting into going into medical school and/or residency, now they're experiencing it and no matter how prepared they felt or believed they were, there is no perfect way to prepare for it, and there are times that they question whether it is all worth it to them or if they chose the right profession. To me that seems normal, maybe healthy, seems all apart of being a human being with feelings and limits. Just because they are bitching about being residents, saying it sucks, and questioning why they ever chose this profession, does not mean they are about to quit, completely hate the profession, or ever regret getting into it, and it doesnt mean they arent sucking it up. SDN is a great place to vent.
What I got from your posts is that you've done everything possible to ready yourself for entering medicine, and that you're going to take everything that comes at you, suck it up, and never feel down or question why you're doing this in the first place. Maybe you're real good at suppressing your anger or sucking it up, thats great, but who are you to talk down to actual residents who are in the trenches, while you are in line to join the front lines? Who are you to tell them how they should be feeling, and that they should never question why they chose medicine in the first place? Do you think that you will never have negative feelings about being a resident once you get there, and once you are in the thick of it? You'll never forget, not for one second, why you're doing this? You're making it sound like you wont. Correct me if Im wrong here, but you seem real arrogant and seem to have it all figured out about something you never eperienced, but hey this is just my opinion after reading your post.
Realest, Im glad you're sharing your opinion with everyone, considering the fact that you dont have any first-hand experience being a resident yourself. But you talk like you know what you're getting into, and that you will suck it up at all costs no matter what is thrown at you. Maybe you will, but maybe you are a rare breed of human or something. All the people posting in here are posting their thoughts and feelings for a reason, and it seems to me that although they may not have known what they were getting into going into medical school and/or residency, now they're experiencing it and no matter how prepared they felt or believed they were, there is no perfect way to prepare for it, and there are times that they question whether it is all worth it to them or if they chose the right profession. To me that seems normal, maybe healthy, seems all apart of being a human being with feelings and limits. Just because they are bitching about being residents, saying it sucks, and questioning why they ever chose this profession, does not mean they are about to quit, completely hate the profession, or ever regret getting into it, and it doesnt mean they arent sucking it up. SDN is a great place to vent.
What I got from your posts is that you've done everything possible to ready yourself for entering medicine, and that you're going to take everything that comes at you, suck it up, and never feel down or question why you're doing this in the first place. Maybe you're real good at suppressing your anger or sucking it up, thats great, but who are you to talk down to actual residents who are in the trenches, while you are in line to join the front lines? Who are you to tell them how they should be feeling, and that they should never question why they chose medicine in the first place? Do you think that you will never have negative feelings about being a resident once you get there, and once you are in the thick of it? You'll never forget, not for one second, why you're doing this? You're making it sound like you wont. Correct me if Im wrong here, but you seem real arrogant and seem to have it all figured out about something you never eperienced, but hey this is just my opinion after reading your post.
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Realest said:
I see from a perusal of your other posts that you have already been accepted to several medical schools. Congrats on that.
I think that some the reactions you've received in this thread stem from the fact that you have yet to experience what a lot have gone or are currently going, through. Couple that with your overall criticism and negative characterization of people who have doubts about, or are critical of medicine as a career choice. Even if you had no intention of doing so, you come off as rather self-righteous and naive.
You may have talked to many, many people who are in medicine now, and that's great. However, you will not know with absolute certainty how *you* will react while going through this training until you go through it.
It's a relatively long period of time to train - 8 years or more. For someone *not* to change during that time - especially with all the drama/trauma that medicine entails, you either have to be very squared away, or a sociopath. For the rest of us in the middle, we undergo changes - some expected, some not. It's part of being human, though I hate to throw out such a cliche.
I wish you good luck, and hope that once you've spent some time in the trenches, you have a little more compassion, if not understanding, for your colleagues.
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Realest said:
How do you know that you'll do it well? And, just because you've never seen yourself doing anything else doesn't necessarily mean that you'll love it. That's not really an intellectual reason. Who knows, maybe the OP couldn't seem himself doing anything else either. My sister's friend said the same thing, and ultimately did not graduate from med school.
How can you be sure that they're being honest, though? Even when you ask them, point blank, what they hate about the school? If they were dwelling on the things that they hated about their institution, and about their profession, then they wouldn't want to talk to potential applicants anyway, most likely. They would have gotten out of this profession if they were obsessing over the things that they hated, or be back, moping, in their office.
Realest said:
So this is an open invitation - what do YOU think that your life as a med student and resident will be like? What do you think will be obstacles in being the best doctor you can be, or what do you think will be the hardest parts of medical school? What do you envision your daily schedule being like, and what do you think you'll have to overcome in fulfilling your goal of being a physician? Then maybe people on this forum can confirm or contradict you, and then you'll get an even better picture of what being a doctor/med student is like.
do you honestly think that the people who are in medical school didn't have an interest in medicine, didn't think about economic stability, didn't have compassion for people, didn't have ability, and didn't think this was the best fit for them? you said nothing that makes your situation unique. i don't know you and i'm not going to say you're in for a rude awakening, or that you will hate medical school. in fact maybe you'll like it, who knows. what i do know is that it's asinine for you to be spouting off so sure of yourself and so judgmental of others when you have not been through what we have. did you really think we all came in bright eyed and uninformed? i personally came in knowing what kind of commitment it takes, in ALL aspects of life, but guess what? it didn't make it any easier. i'm not reconsidering - i knew it would be hard. i know what faces me ahead will be even harder. but that doesn't change anything. you talk like someone who might read a history book, talk to a few vets, and know what it's like to be in a war. do you think your heart won't beat faster when that first bullet sails by you? it is one thing to be critical of a deserter - quite another to be critical of someone expressing his fears, anguish, and uncertainty in battle. you can read all the military books you want, play counterstrike until you get carpal tunnel, interview however many vets you want - but don't tell someone who's been through war to suck it up and keep fighting. you have no right, and you have no idea.
bottom line is this. you said you know your place. i suggest you re-evaluate where you are.
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Realest said:
I see someone has looked into a mirror recently. In case you haven't been paying attention, this thread is about the practice of medicine...from the resident's perspective. Welcome to our world, stop being a snob and maybe you might learn something.
In brief, residency sucks. If you want some idea about what it's about read "House of God" by Sam Shem. It's a bit dramatised, but the sentiment is very real my young friend.
Realest said:
This last quote is something you should save. Maybe put it in an envelope with the words "Do not open till six months into internship". Then open it and read it. Maybe then your own words will have taken on a different meaning.
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Realest said:
Boy oh boy. To think that undergrad has anything to do with residency has got to be the funniest thing I have ever heard. Have fun in your pre-clinical years. Enjoy playing student doc in your short white coat after that. But listen well Alice, when you step through the looking glass it's a different world. Better keep a bottle of pills in one hand and a piece of steel in the other (metaphorically of course)
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Realest said:
Smoking is an EXTREME example? You must be the type who goes up to someone with end-stage metastatic lung cancer or ALS and say "I know what it feels like". You don't even realize you are being put in your place by the residents here. Here's putting you in your place: shut up and spend a day in our shoes. Any 4th year I have actually made do that (just carry the service pager one night) is quiet (humbled and fatigued) the next morning, and you think you know better than them about medicine? Before you walk a mile in our shoes, anything you say is as logical as your percentages that don't add up.
"Medicine" and "that school" are very different.
A la Vietnam and Iraq. The problem with democracy is that stupid people think they are right because they reproduce faster.
Stay there.
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A couple of thoughts:
Most everyone in medicine reached, at some point, a "no turning back point." A point where they decided that medicine was going to be their career, no matter what it takes (check out the re-applicant forum for some un-inspiration). I don't know when that point was for me (maybe when I registered for Ochem?), but I certainly don't think it was an informed decision.
Medicine is, in many ways, a trade. You must go through a type of apprenticeship to learn highly specific skills that are very difficult to apply outside the field. However, it is an apprenticship which entails a lot of financial hardship (student loans and opportunity cost). If you don't like being an electrician, get some on-the job training as a plumber. The time/financial burden is minimal.
Finally, I never expected internship to be as inflexible as it is. I knew very little about it--no sdn for me--the day I started medical school. Here is what I had heard about the world:
If you want to go to a good college, you will have to get really great grades and work all the time. TRUTH: I slacked through high school, aced a bunch of standardized tests, proved I was an interesting student and went to a great liberal arts college.
If you want to go to medical school, you have to sacrifice the things you enjoy, a personal life and get stellar grades. TRUTH: Mediocre job in class led to decent grades, I aced the MCAT, I majored in something that was non-science and facinating, had less than 10 nights in college that I got less than 6 hours of sleep (and less than 50 that I got less than 8) got into a top five medical school.
In medical school you must work all the time. TRUTH: I studied minimally, got okay grades, mastered the basics, slept late, ditched more class than I ever had in my life, drank more nights per week than I did in college, and still rarely slept less than 6 hours per night, secured a residency position in a semi-competitive field.
In residency you have to work all of the time. TRUTH: A little shocking (okay, I saw this coming 3rd and 4th year, but I wasn't turning back), but this is mostly true. My program is easier than a lot of people have it. But, really, you work on Christmas, your birthday, most weekends, over night, when you are really sick, when your spouse/kids are really sick, when a family member dies, you work all of the time. Unlike many fields that are known for long hours (bankers, lawyers, consultants) it is not the creme de la creme that are putting in the long hours, but almost everybody that is. You can be a slacker junior lawyer and take the holidays off and be there for your kids' birthdays. You cannot do that in medicine. It doesn't mean you are motivated, there is no other option (if you are going to fulfill your job requirements.)
My point is, we all think we are special and that life treats us different. I didn't think I would have to work nearly as hard as I do. I didn't think I would have to work so hard to do something that I would do badly (ask any intern if they are "good" at what they do and if they are honest, they will tell you, no.)
I hope I have helped explain why you can't anticipate what it wil be like to be a resident and it is not unreasonable to be there and second guess your decision.
Most everyone in medicine reached, at some point, a "no turning back point." A point where they decided that medicine was going to be their career, no matter what it takes (check out the re-applicant forum for some un-inspiration). I don't know when that point was for me (maybe when I registered for Ochem?), but I certainly don't think it was an informed decision.
Medicine is, in many ways, a trade. You must go through a type of apprenticeship to learn highly specific skills that are very difficult to apply outside the field. However, it is an apprenticship which entails a lot of financial hardship (student loans and opportunity cost). If you don't like being an electrician, get some on-the job training as a plumber. The time/financial burden is minimal.
Finally, I never expected internship to be as inflexible as it is. I knew very little about it--no sdn for me--the day I started medical school. Here is what I had heard about the world:
If you want to go to a good college, you will have to get really great grades and work all the time. TRUTH: I slacked through high school, aced a bunch of standardized tests, proved I was an interesting student and went to a great liberal arts college.
If you want to go to medical school, you have to sacrifice the things you enjoy, a personal life and get stellar grades. TRUTH: Mediocre job in class led to decent grades, I aced the MCAT, I majored in something that was non-science and facinating, had less than 10 nights in college that I got less than 6 hours of sleep (and less than 50 that I got less than 8) got into a top five medical school.
In medical school you must work all the time. TRUTH: I studied minimally, got okay grades, mastered the basics, slept late, ditched more class than I ever had in my life, drank more nights per week than I did in college, and still rarely slept less than 6 hours per night, secured a residency position in a semi-competitive field.
In residency you have to work all of the time. TRUTH: A little shocking (okay, I saw this coming 3rd and 4th year, but I wasn't turning back), but this is mostly true. My program is easier than a lot of people have it. But, really, you work on Christmas, your birthday, most weekends, over night, when you are really sick, when your spouse/kids are really sick, when a family member dies, you work all of the time. Unlike many fields that are known for long hours (bankers, lawyers, consultants) it is not the creme de la creme that are putting in the long hours, but almost everybody that is. You can be a slacker junior lawyer and take the holidays off and be there for your kids' birthdays. You cannot do that in medicine. It doesn't mean you are motivated, there is no other option (if you are going to fulfill your job requirements.)
My point is, we all think we are special and that life treats us different. I didn't think I would have to work nearly as hard as I do. I didn't think I would have to work so hard to do something that I would do badly (ask any intern if they are "good" at what they do and if they are honest, they will tell you, no.)
I hope I have helped explain why you can't anticipate what it wil be like to be a resident and it is not unreasonable to be there and second guess your decision.
Thanks 🙂
I'm finally getting the responses I was looking for, rather than "you're too young to understand". Wish I didn't have to provoke you so much in order to see it though.
I realize I can be harsh, especially when it comes to this field just because I feel so passionately about it and I don't like to see people that get involved only to reject it, when there are so many other qualified individuals who would love to be in their place. I guess a bunch of you didn't like my motivations for being a doctor, so Ill try to explain it better remember, you asked. When I said I couldn't see myself doing anything else, I was emphasizing my passion for medicine. I think a person's health is their most important asset, and I can't think of a better way to impact others than in this aspect. Why not public health? The impact takes much longer, requires long-term changes, whereas medicine is a more immediate form of healing. What else - I love solving problems. I realize that in most specialties, many cases are simply routine and the work can be monotonous. But these routine cases are interjected with unique cases that require hitting the texts and consulting with your colleagues to work through the problem. I love it. I love that medicine is continually changing, in some specialties more than others - take neurosurgery for example. You never stop learning in this profession. I love that I'll be good at it. Why? Because I want it. It may sound cocky and naive, but I know I will be at the top. I cannot wait to start. Ive spent the past two years agonizing over the waste of time and energy of undergrad, when I know so well what it is I want to do. I'm sorry if you're jealous or skeptical or put off by my confidence. The money? Definitely an issue. I never want such a trivial item to be a problem in my life. Again, naive you'll say, because inevitably I will hit rough patches, to say the least. But I don't think anybody is going to argue that I can't maintain a comfortable style of living as a doctor.
Somebody asked what I thought medical school/medicine will be like? I've had the privilege of being the child, the niece, and the cousin of doctors, and the curse of being a woman. I know the about the hierarchal bullcrap, insurance company blockage, and strife between departments. I know what it means to have to sacrifice time with your family, sleep, holidays, health, and emotional stability for the job. I know how ungrateful patients can be, how easily you can be sued for malpractice even when you're the chief of your dept and have fifteen years of clean experience under your belt, how at times you may precariously hang onto your career by a thread because some racist CEO of the hospital wants to replace your group with some jacka-- that has a record of being fired from numerous hospitals but is okay by that power hungry freak because he's of a "superior" breed. I also know about some aspects of medicine that you and I will never have to deal with, such as the difficulties of being an FMG. Thats medicine; what about medical school? The first two years you toil over your books, and are under constant stress even though you'll never use 80% of the material you're trying so desperately to cram into your head. Your patient contact is limited to the grunt work of recording histories, taking blood pressure, etc, and you become impatient to actually start doing something. Then you nearly kill yourself studying for the Step 1 USMLE. As an intern during rotations, you not only have your attendings and other doctors berating your lack of expertise and experience, but you have to fight to be noticed among all the other eager peons in your group. Hesitate for one second to answer a question and you will be publicly mocked for your obvious stupidity. You're sped through 9-10 clerkships in less than a year and are expected gauge your own abilities and interest in order to decide which specialty you will pursue for the rest of your life. Whee. Residency. So now you're a doctor, but you're treated like a slave. You can hardly support your Gucci wardrobe, let alone the family that snuck up on you this past year. Forget about even starting to pay off your debt. So even though you're already averaging about 3-4 hours of sleep a night, you jump at the opportunity to moonlight and go down in Guinness as the first person to maintain sanity after being deprived of sleep for 60 hours straight. Yeah, I'm probably missing how Dr. Jacka-- tore you a new one yesterday, blah blah...but the basic gist, I've gathered, is that residency sucks. And before you're done with that hell, you've got to start making decisions about whether you're going to start your own practice or work for the hospital or join a group or one a hundred other possibilities, including abandoning medicine altogether for a few months to raise your newborn child. I don't plan on being happy all the time. I don't plan on things coming as easily as they have for the past 20 years. But I no matter how hard the sh-- hits the fan, I wouldn't trade medicine for any other career.
I was talking with my dad the other day about his residency years, when he worked at an urban hospital with a large volume of patients. He said, "It's very hard to kill a human." Imagine that. My dad is damn good at what he does, and he has incredible confidence because of it. When you see so much suffering and death in the news everyday, when you take 30 seconds to think of how vulnerable we are as a species, it amazes me that a person can feel so strongly about the invincibility of human life. I'm 100% positive I'll go through a significant number of patients making the wrong diagnosis or choosing the wrong tx, but I am also 100% positive that after years of bawling, near heart attacks, frustration and self-doubt, I will have gained enough experience and confidence to feel like my dad does now. You can give me a thousand different anecdotes about how X patient didn't comply with tx, how emotionally draining it was to tell Timmy's family he'd never be able to walk again, and so on. I know I haven't heard them all, but I get it. To me, doctors are the most valuable and powerful contributors to society, and I could not think of being anything less. Doctors may not have the same noble image as in the past, and doctors have lost a significant amount of authority over the years due to information technology and changes in our health care system, but how much does that matter when somebody puts their life in your hands? Does any of that matter? The fact is, society is always going to need doctors, regardless of how much patients think they know or what private of govt institution has physicians on puppet strings, when a person entrusts you with their life, it shows respect. When people do not help themselves, when they don't care for a physician's opinion, it is difficult to show compassion. But that is your job, as you do it so much as it does not interfere with that person's freedom. Instead of dwelling on such disappointments, focus on the few individuals who may not be in serious danger, who may be asking only simple questions, but who nevertheless rely on you to make them feel safe. You are a protector, you are a guru, you are a god. I'm wrong on many levels, but in my mind, I am right, and that is what sustains my passion for medicine. I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks.
Just to redirect this argument back to my original point, I am only upset that some people will enter medical school, this field, without knowing what it is about. Many of you have explicitly stated that you had no conception of the hardships you would face in medical school. Many of you seem to have gone into medicine for one or two reasons, but I firmly believe this is a field you must LOVE in order to pursue, or you do not deserve to be in it. If you love it, you'll find so many more reasons than can be expressed in words to keep at it. If you love it, you will show tolerance for its flaws, learn to bear them, and know that they are far surpassed by its redeeming qualities. And if there was ever a flicker of doubt that your love was fallible, you would not only discover a hundred more reasons to dispel it, but your love would only be stronger as a result of that ephemeral weakness. Some of you seemed to miss my point - I never said medical school was cake, and I never said I'm going to be smiling through it. My point was to the contrary - that I know what lies ahead, I know there will be countless times that I feel beaten, but I will stick with it because I am not the kind of person that deluded themselves before entering the field. You're right, the work in residency is incomparable to anything I have ever done in my life. But it's clearly not impossible, and I can think of million other situations that I would rather not be in. I do not presume to know everything, and I do not mean to sound so arrogant and patronizing towards residents and med students who do have a lot more experience than me. Somebody said I ought to be more compassionate and understanding towards people whose minds have changed over the years. I wish I could - and I recognize this as one of my flaws, but I cannot reserve judgment in this arena because I feel that strongly about it. I'm not going to sit here and delineate exceptions, make excuses, or sugar-coat my writing. You can say I'll eat my words in the future, but I guarantee you I will not, because I refuse to let myself think otherwise, and from my own tumultuous experiences, I at the very least know the power of my mind, and this is the mentality I believe a doctor should have.
I'm finally getting the responses I was looking for, rather than "you're too young to understand". Wish I didn't have to provoke you so much in order to see it though.
I realize I can be harsh, especially when it comes to this field just because I feel so passionately about it and I don't like to see people that get involved only to reject it, when there are so many other qualified individuals who would love to be in their place. I guess a bunch of you didn't like my motivations for being a doctor, so Ill try to explain it better remember, you asked. When I said I couldn't see myself doing anything else, I was emphasizing my passion for medicine. I think a person's health is their most important asset, and I can't think of a better way to impact others than in this aspect. Why not public health? The impact takes much longer, requires long-term changes, whereas medicine is a more immediate form of healing. What else - I love solving problems. I realize that in most specialties, many cases are simply routine and the work can be monotonous. But these routine cases are interjected with unique cases that require hitting the texts and consulting with your colleagues to work through the problem. I love it. I love that medicine is continually changing, in some specialties more than others - take neurosurgery for example. You never stop learning in this profession. I love that I'll be good at it. Why? Because I want it. It may sound cocky and naive, but I know I will be at the top. I cannot wait to start. Ive spent the past two years agonizing over the waste of time and energy of undergrad, when I know so well what it is I want to do. I'm sorry if you're jealous or skeptical or put off by my confidence. The money? Definitely an issue. I never want such a trivial item to be a problem in my life. Again, naive you'll say, because inevitably I will hit rough patches, to say the least. But I don't think anybody is going to argue that I can't maintain a comfortable style of living as a doctor.
Somebody asked what I thought medical school/medicine will be like? I've had the privilege of being the child, the niece, and the cousin of doctors, and the curse of being a woman. I know the about the hierarchal bullcrap, insurance company blockage, and strife between departments. I know what it means to have to sacrifice time with your family, sleep, holidays, health, and emotional stability for the job. I know how ungrateful patients can be, how easily you can be sued for malpractice even when you're the chief of your dept and have fifteen years of clean experience under your belt, how at times you may precariously hang onto your career by a thread because some racist CEO of the hospital wants to replace your group with some jacka-- that has a record of being fired from numerous hospitals but is okay by that power hungry freak because he's of a "superior" breed. I also know about some aspects of medicine that you and I will never have to deal with, such as the difficulties of being an FMG. Thats medicine; what about medical school? The first two years you toil over your books, and are under constant stress even though you'll never use 80% of the material you're trying so desperately to cram into your head. Your patient contact is limited to the grunt work of recording histories, taking blood pressure, etc, and you become impatient to actually start doing something. Then you nearly kill yourself studying for the Step 1 USMLE. As an intern during rotations, you not only have your attendings and other doctors berating your lack of expertise and experience, but you have to fight to be noticed among all the other eager peons in your group. Hesitate for one second to answer a question and you will be publicly mocked for your obvious stupidity. You're sped through 9-10 clerkships in less than a year and are expected gauge your own abilities and interest in order to decide which specialty you will pursue for the rest of your life. Whee. Residency. So now you're a doctor, but you're treated like a slave. You can hardly support your Gucci wardrobe, let alone the family that snuck up on you this past year. Forget about even starting to pay off your debt. So even though you're already averaging about 3-4 hours of sleep a night, you jump at the opportunity to moonlight and go down in Guinness as the first person to maintain sanity after being deprived of sleep for 60 hours straight. Yeah, I'm probably missing how Dr. Jacka-- tore you a new one yesterday, blah blah...but the basic gist, I've gathered, is that residency sucks. And before you're done with that hell, you've got to start making decisions about whether you're going to start your own practice or work for the hospital or join a group or one a hundred other possibilities, including abandoning medicine altogether for a few months to raise your newborn child. I don't plan on being happy all the time. I don't plan on things coming as easily as they have for the past 20 years. But I no matter how hard the sh-- hits the fan, I wouldn't trade medicine for any other career.
I was talking with my dad the other day about his residency years, when he worked at an urban hospital with a large volume of patients. He said, "It's very hard to kill a human." Imagine that. My dad is damn good at what he does, and he has incredible confidence because of it. When you see so much suffering and death in the news everyday, when you take 30 seconds to think of how vulnerable we are as a species, it amazes me that a person can feel so strongly about the invincibility of human life. I'm 100% positive I'll go through a significant number of patients making the wrong diagnosis or choosing the wrong tx, but I am also 100% positive that after years of bawling, near heart attacks, frustration and self-doubt, I will have gained enough experience and confidence to feel like my dad does now. You can give me a thousand different anecdotes about how X patient didn't comply with tx, how emotionally draining it was to tell Timmy's family he'd never be able to walk again, and so on. I know I haven't heard them all, but I get it. To me, doctors are the most valuable and powerful contributors to society, and I could not think of being anything less. Doctors may not have the same noble image as in the past, and doctors have lost a significant amount of authority over the years due to information technology and changes in our health care system, but how much does that matter when somebody puts their life in your hands? Does any of that matter? The fact is, society is always going to need doctors, regardless of how much patients think they know or what private of govt institution has physicians on puppet strings, when a person entrusts you with their life, it shows respect. When people do not help themselves, when they don't care for a physician's opinion, it is difficult to show compassion. But that is your job, as you do it so much as it does not interfere with that person's freedom. Instead of dwelling on such disappointments, focus on the few individuals who may not be in serious danger, who may be asking only simple questions, but who nevertheless rely on you to make them feel safe. You are a protector, you are a guru, you are a god. I'm wrong on many levels, but in my mind, I am right, and that is what sustains my passion for medicine. I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks.
Just to redirect this argument back to my original point, I am only upset that some people will enter medical school, this field, without knowing what it is about. Many of you have explicitly stated that you had no conception of the hardships you would face in medical school. Many of you seem to have gone into medicine for one or two reasons, but I firmly believe this is a field you must LOVE in order to pursue, or you do not deserve to be in it. If you love it, you'll find so many more reasons than can be expressed in words to keep at it. If you love it, you will show tolerance for its flaws, learn to bear them, and know that they are far surpassed by its redeeming qualities. And if there was ever a flicker of doubt that your love was fallible, you would not only discover a hundred more reasons to dispel it, but your love would only be stronger as a result of that ephemeral weakness. Some of you seemed to miss my point - I never said medical school was cake, and I never said I'm going to be smiling through it. My point was to the contrary - that I know what lies ahead, I know there will be countless times that I feel beaten, but I will stick with it because I am not the kind of person that deluded themselves before entering the field. You're right, the work in residency is incomparable to anything I have ever done in my life. But it's clearly not impossible, and I can think of million other situations that I would rather not be in. I do not presume to know everything, and I do not mean to sound so arrogant and patronizing towards residents and med students who do have a lot more experience than me. Somebody said I ought to be more compassionate and understanding towards people whose minds have changed over the years. I wish I could - and I recognize this as one of my flaws, but I cannot reserve judgment in this arena because I feel that strongly about it. I'm not going to sit here and delineate exceptions, make excuses, or sugar-coat my writing. You can say I'll eat my words in the future, but I guarantee you I will not, because I refuse to let myself think otherwise, and from my own tumultuous experiences, I at the very least know the power of my mind, and this is the mentality I believe a doctor should have.
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Realest said:
Hmm. Interesting.
I was also lucky to be the sister of a doctor, and lived with her during her internship, residency, and first year of her fellowship. I thought I knew what it would be like too, but, it turns out that I wasn't quite right. Look, when people talk about "knowing the pitfalls and obstacles" of becoming a doctor, they always talk about the big, dramatic stuff. Dealing with death, having to tell a patient's family really bad news, being tired, overworked, and over-stressed. I'm only through the first year of med school, so I can't speak for residency, but first year med school isn't anything like that. They talk about the "spirituality" issues, and how people feel guilty for ripping apart corpses in the anatomy lab. For me, anatomy lab wasn't much more than an annoyance. Any feelings and compassion that I had for the dead bodies was gone - I was more or less numb. The most emotion that I felt in the anatomy lab was this surge of frustration when one of the lab TAs sliced through part of the brachial plexus by accident. No sadness, no pity, just pure anger. That was probably due to the stress, and overwork, and lack of sleep, but you don't feel those emotions directly. They just pop out in unexpected places. These emotions come crawling out of the woodwork especially on the day that you dissect the pelvic region - it's always fun to watch what happens to your otherwise intelligent classmates 🙂.
When I talked about how hard medical school would be, I think that I knew that intellectually, but it was hard to know what it would be like, on a visceral level. I have a better idea now.
Maybe you think that doctors will be "protectors and gods." After I read "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand, I had an equally romantic and elevated view of doctors. Talk to a lot of doctors, or even better yet, your medical school classmates, and you might start to wonder "You're going to be in charge of people's lives?!?!" I like my classmates for the most part, but, once in a while, you might wonder about someone.
Actually, the biggest change for me so far in the first year of med school was what causes me to feel pity. People who die of natural causes, even everyone who died in the tsunami, don't make me feel particularly sad. After a few weeks of med school, I got this idea that when people die of natural causes, well, that just happens, and it's not so bad. That's probably not a great attitude, but it's what has happened. What has started to really bother me is when people die as a result of what other people did to them. Babies that die of parental physical abuse, a student who is beaten to death by a baseball bat outside of a supermarket, and school age children held hostage in by Chechan rebels, have started to bother me more than they ever did before. I didn't expect that.
Before med school, I talked about the medical profession in big, grandiose terms, too. What I found is that it's really the small stuff that gets to you, and the romantic image can only last for so long.
I think the reason that your previous posts have bothered people so much is that, as a medical student and a doctor, there is the unwritten expectation that you will be willing to look out for your other classmates. If one of them have is having personal problems, or doubts, or trouble, then the hope is that you would be willing to kindly and gently help them work through it as best you can. A lot of medical students and doctors feel under attack from everything else - family members who don't understand, children who should take priority but don't, and the public at large. I think that they feel that an unsympathetic premedical student is probably the last thing that they need. Perhaps it's not the best attitude, but I can understand it. I guess the unspoken question is, if you can't be compassionate towards "one of your own," who can you be compassionate towards?
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Realest said:
Do you really think so? That kind of thinking DOES bother me, a little, because at what point are you willing to show tolerance for its flaws, and at what point do you realize that the system needs to be changed? Isn't it possible that the OP has gotten to the point where s/he realized that the system's flaws can no longer be tolerated, but s/he doesn't have the temperament or the knowledge to change them? And, therefore, s/he is just looking for a way out?
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Realest said:
Don't think you will eat your words, but with your denial and arrogance you might choke on them someday. Judging from your writing and the way you frame an arguement, I feel comfortable in saying this kiddo. Better people than you have been broken by medical school, residency, or practice. What makes you more special than them? Good luck.
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Realest said:
I'm a lowly first year, but the people who annoy me the most are the ones who have doctors in the family because they think they know more about all the subjects (although they are routinely outscored by most of the class by wide margin) and about what goes on in the hospital and private practice (medically and politcally).
Do you not think that others have felt strongly and passionate about medicine? And when med school starts, you realize that none of undergrad mattered - what a cakewalk undergrad was. I can't even imagine residency compared to med school. No one can truly know the intensity of medical school (and residency - but i'm not there yet, so no comments) unless you are there.
It would be interesting to find out your attitude when you start basic sciences, clinical years, and then residency. I know that I have changed since starting med school but change isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know more than ever that I can't have everything and I just see that narrowing as I get older. It is a choice, but it does't mean there isn't loss and mourning involved. I chose this career over another and moved far away from my family, for the time being.
Someone mentioned a point-of-no-return. When the debt gets too high and/or you have invested too much time, there also is a point-of-no-return. How will you pay off 200K in loans? You may think "So what? You chose it!" Indeed, but when you get there and you realize that you have no other option but to continue in medicine because of loans or lack of other training (med school surprisingly trains you only for medicine), it is uncomfortable. I like to keep my options open and by medical school, I've effectively cut off all other options, for better or worse.
Your bubble WILL be burst - sooner or later. I hope for your sake that you have the emotional wherewithall to handle it.
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theD.O.C. said:
That's the sad thing about Realest. Lost in the arrogance and ignorance of his posts is the fact that he is the most dangerous kind of premed-- the kind that doesn't acknowledge the possibility that certain problems can exist until it is too late.
And people wonder why some doctors crack and go commit suicide or go start killing patients due to sheer apathy-- trust me, its not the doctors that are introspective and consider all the possibilities and sympathize with them that go do these things. No, it are the ones in denial that crack.
There are doctors that can bend and there are doctors that can't, and unfortunately its the latter that breaks. So yes, realest is annoying and pretty much talking out of his arse, but if anything, he is the kind of student that we as a community need to look out for, regardless of his attitude. Because its just too sad to watch doctors with his attitude go crazy...
All right, I see there's really use in arguing this point further, seeing as how most of you have either missed it or countered it with obvious attacks on my naivete, apathy, etc. I'm wondering how you would react to "one of your own kind" who felt the same way as I do. If anything, I've gained an even deeper understanding about how ****ty medical school will be. I hope that some of you will in turn use my own romantic notions of medicine to remember why you made such a choice in the first place. I've hijacked this thread for long enough - back to your BMWing...I guess we all need to vent once in a while. Good luck.
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Man, your posts give me a headache. Stop running around acting like this is all a little experiment that you're running in order to see what our reactions are. You're not clever, despite what your mom told you. If you already know so much about medical school and the medical profession, then you wouldn't need to "wonder" how we'd react to you.
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this is the last time in your life that you will get this sort of attention. enjoy.
you may "know of" all the struggles, but you don't "know" s-it. (g-d i would love to see you at 11pm after an 8 hour whipple when you came in that morning at 5 and you gotta be back in the hospital tomorrow at 5 for a 36 hour call.)
seriously, the fact that you're claiming to know ALL the stuff you claim to know without experiencing any of it is the most striking clue to where you are in life. and that's ok, mostly all have been somewhere around there at some point, to some extent.
actually, i really wish you all the best. i want you to get to medical school and make friends and succeed in whatever endeavor you choose to pursue. you seem intelligent enough, so i'll give you a free piece of advice.
step back from yourself once in a while, keep an open mind, and don't take yourself too seriously. i think you'll do just fine.
jeff
you may "know of" all the struggles, but you don't "know" s-it. (g-d i would love to see you at 11pm after an 8 hour whipple when you came in that morning at 5 and you gotta be back in the hospital tomorrow at 5 for a 36 hour call.)
seriously, the fact that you're claiming to know ALL the stuff you claim to know without experiencing any of it is the most striking clue to where you are in life. and that's ok, mostly all have been somewhere around there at some point, to some extent.
actually, i really wish you all the best. i want you to get to medical school and make friends and succeed in whatever endeavor you choose to pursue. you seem intelligent enough, so i'll give you a free piece of advice.
step back from yourself once in a while, keep an open mind, and don't take yourself too seriously. i think you'll do just fine.
jeff
Realest said:
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Realest said:
Don't know why I keep responding to these things. Must be the masochist in me.
Realest, I looked over my previous posts and I appologize for them. I am sorry if I was rude, mean, or snotty. You did indeed strike a nerve. If that was what you were going for then congratulations. However, if your statements were indeed genuine then let me just tell you this.
Get off your high horse. You will never find meaning and happiness in your life through medicine. These things only come from finding balance in your life. That's why they ask about extracurriculars in the med school interview. You gotta have a life outside of medicine, because medicine is not life itself.
I truly hope you realise it someday and you start being genuine and caring not only to your patients, but to your colleages, your family, your friends and lovers, and most of all to yourself. Thank you for sharing. I graciously accept your wishes of good luck. I again wish you more of the same.
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Realest said:
If you came up to me right now in person, got on your soapbox and delivered your little ******ed speeches, I'd have to be physically restrained. STFU. You're a toolbox, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and your first amendment rights should be taken away from you. STFU. If I said exactly what I want to say to you right now, I'd probably be banned by the time the cock crows. Eat me. STFU.
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Realest said:
WTF.
sacrament said:
This chick is possibly the most pretenious, pedantic, annoying sh1tbag poster on SDN. The worst part is that it's real.
I can't wait for her nervous breakdown. Anyone want to take bets on when she cracks? My guess is third year during her surgery rotation.
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Wow, as someone about to enter med school in the summer, this thread scares me a little. Are you allowed ANY sick days as an intern? I once worked a job where there were no sick days allowed and found that when my temperature went over 102, I couldn't function that well. I'm already dreading my internship and I haven't even started yet.
On another note, I talked to a radiologist once who had done 3 years of a surgery residency before switching to radiology.
Also, I spoke with a guy who got an MBA and skipped out on residency and now does some sort of consulting work. It doesn't have the same job security as medicine, but he's raking in the dough.
As someone who hasn't even gotten to school yet, I may well be unqualified to give advice, but these are some stories that I have heard.
Good luck.
On another note, I talked to a radiologist once who had done 3 years of a surgery residency before switching to radiology.
Also, I spoke with a guy who got an MBA and skipped out on residency and now does some sort of consulting work. It doesn't have the same job security as medicine, but he's raking in the dough.
As someone who hasn't even gotten to school yet, I may well be unqualified to give advice, but these are some stories that I have heard.
Good luck.
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KatieOConnor said:
Legally you are allowed sick days. Practically, I wouldn't expect to get them or be able to use them.
Obviously it depends on how sick you are, how heavy your patient load is and how understanding your team is. Unfortunately, its part of the culture of medicine that you work in worse condition sometimes than your patients. We all know one isn't as efficient when ill, but then again, an extra body doing work at half the normal rate is still better than none. I recall a couple of years back we had an intern "call in sick". Of course, we were all incredulous and not at all suprised when she showed up an hour later on the wards. I imagine someone explained the "policy" to her.
kimberli, that's hilarious I can see myself doing that though! but now i know 😀
I can see myself doing that though! but now i know 😀- Joined
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katie,
don't listen to all the stories. make up your own mind. and don't dread anything. none of this is as bad as some make it out to be.
during internship you get 4 weeks of vacation and a bunch of sick days. most civilized programs will let you take days off when you really need (ie fever 102).
don't listen to all the stories. make up your own mind. and don't dread anything. none of this is as bad as some make it out to be.
during internship you get 4 weeks of vacation and a bunch of sick days. most civilized programs will let you take days off when you really need (ie fever 102).
KatieOConnor said:Wow, as someone about to enter med school in the summer, this thread scares me a little. Are you allowed ANY sick days as an intern? I once worked a job where there were no sick days allowed and found that when my temperature went over 102, I couldn't function that well. I'm already dreading my internship and I haven't even started yet.
On another note, I talked to a radiologist once who had done 3 years of a surgery residency before switching to radiology.
Also, I spoke with a guy who got an MBA and skipped out on residency and now does some sort of consulting work. It doesn't have the same job security as medicine, but he's raking in the dough.
As someone who hasn't even gotten to school yet, I may well be unqualified to give advice, but these are some stories that I have heard.
Good luck.
Wow. I haven't been on this site for a long time. Looks like not much has changed.
It STILL cracks me up that pre-meds routinely post in the "Residency" sections... Isn't that what the Pre-Allo/Pre-Osteo sections are for? So people can terrify or insult each other with their half-truths and total-lies?
It STILL cracks me up that pre-meds routinely post in the "Residency" sections... Isn't that what the Pre-Allo/Pre-Osteo sections are for? So people can terrify or insult each other with their half-truths and total-lies?
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Since someone posted again, I had a (very small) insight I wanted to add to the discussion.
I think it is interesting to consider this thread with the recent (equally long and hateful) "Sabbath Observant Residency" thread. All of the premeds in there are convinced that when they get into residency, they will easily be able to arrange for one day off in seven and trade their holidays around so they can have Jewish holy days off (and there are even some who think they have a legal right to this). They are working under the impression that because Non-Jews want Christmas off they can just switch. If I recall, all of the residents who posted (with the exception of a pathologist) said that this is impossible because you really work all of the time and there is no one to trade with. The pre-meds launched into long posts about how they REALLY DO understand medicine and they REALLY have done meaningful volunteer work and they know what they are getting into, and they will just make it work to get their Saturdays and Holy Days off.
My point is: you really don't know what it is like until you get here, for better or for worse.
I think it is interesting to consider this thread with the recent (equally long and hateful) "Sabbath Observant Residency" thread. All of the premeds in there are convinced that when they get into residency, they will easily be able to arrange for one day off in seven and trade their holidays around so they can have Jewish holy days off (and there are even some who think they have a legal right to this). They are working under the impression that because Non-Jews want Christmas off they can just switch. If I recall, all of the residents who posted (with the exception of a pathologist) said that this is impossible because you really work all of the time and there is no one to trade with. The pre-meds launched into long posts about how they REALLY DO understand medicine and they REALLY have done meaningful volunteer work and they know what they are getting into, and they will just make it work to get their Saturdays and Holy Days off.
My point is: you really don't know what it is like until you get here, for better or for worse.
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Kimberli Cox said:
You are only allowed to have sick days if you have something growing inside it, be it a fetus or a tumor. Otherwise, you can always perform some sort of "clinical responsibilities".
This was an extremely fascinating thread (except for most of the radiology digression 😉 )
To the OP: I can't possibly claim to understand, but I understand my own particular situation, so I can at least empathize. Good luck. Everything works out the way it's supposed to.
Realest: If you're still keeping an eye on this post, I just want to say good luck to you too.
Just please understand that we live life looking forward, but understand it looking backward. No matter how much you prepare, you have no idea. Honestly, you have no idea.
NS
To the OP: I can't possibly claim to understand, but I understand my own particular situation, so I can at least empathize. Good luck. Everything works out the way it's supposed to.
Realest: If you're still keeping an eye on this post, I just want to say good luck to you too.
Just please understand that we live life looking forward, but understand it looking backward. No matter how much you prepare, you have no idea. Honestly, you have no idea.
NS
The OP hasn't written at all since the first post. At least, I haven't seen any thing else by him/her. I hope (s)he's doing ok...
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Constant humiliations and belittling, imposed self-doubts, extreme deprivation of sleep and adequate meals, standing all day, ingrateful and vicious and selfish people around, never ending info, misunderstanding and lack of sympathy from others who believe you have it all and should be grateful for the wonderful opportunity you have rather than complain "THere are others who would die to be at your place!", uncertain future of medicine, mounting loans, no free time, no enjoyments.
Get infuriated, exhausted, curse, hate all, and focus on the money you will make. Unless you are a renunciant, ascetic monk who would gladly self-impose all of the above and more (no money, no comfort, no recognition, and most of all no sex), you are expected to be thus for your own health and sanity. Just remember one thing: someone got to be a phycisian in this world. So, feel free to compensate all these non-sense hardships with lots of money in any way you can. Just do a good job of curing diseases and have at least a minimal courtesy to your patients and staffs. Even with just that much you are doing a huge service to humanity. Be proud of yourselves. No one else would do what you are doing.
Now I gotta go temp that young monk over there; so far he has rejected my blonde, ebony, and Indie. I'm recruiting an Asian. If she fails, I got money. If that fails....I wishs I were assigned to a cluess premed.
your everlasting friend,
Luci
Get infuriated, exhausted, curse, hate all, and focus on the money you will make. Unless you are a renunciant, ascetic monk who would gladly self-impose all of the above and more (no money, no comfort, no recognition, and most of all no sex), you are expected to be thus for your own health and sanity. Just remember one thing: someone got to be a phycisian in this world. So, feel free to compensate all these non-sense hardships with lots of money in any way you can. Just do a good job of curing diseases and have at least a minimal courtesy to your patients and staffs. Even with just that much you are doing a huge service to humanity. Be proud of yourselves. No one else would do what you are doing.
Now I gotta go temp that young monk over there; so far he has rejected my blonde, ebony, and Indie. I'm recruiting an Asian. If she fails, I got money. If that fails....I wishs I were assigned to a cluess premed.
your everlasting friend,
Luci
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Interesting thread...Seashelley said:
The OP started a new thread 1-24-05 in the PM&R forum. From the results of my search it looks like he /she took some time off.
this is a good thread. i wish i could've read it in 4th yr and internship. i'm a pgy2 now in my chosen specialty, so some things are a little better. but life is still way more painful than anyone could ever have explained to me. you cannot imagine the rage you can feel when a nurse calls you at 3 am for nystatin powder as an intern. you turn into someone you did not know you could be, but later, you are not sorry because you know what a crock it all is. plus, i happened to meet my significant other in internship, something one can never plan, and we are now stuck on opposite coasts in competitive fields and can't find opportunities to transfer.
probably like most of us here, i did the volunteer work and the research and the shadowing and everything else to try to figure out what things would be like. i was also probably disgustingly altruistically motivated. people talked about the money in medicine and i thought they were jerks and fools. all i wanted to do was to make life better for the poor and disenfranchised, to help people that needed it most. i saw people ahead like me and said i could never be like that. and then i even planned and plotted ways to avoid that "downfall." well, i don't know exactly when i lost all that youthful energy and motivation, but medicine really kills your spirit. all of you premeds and even early med students who think you are going to do all these activities to change the world, please, do more while you still can. do all you can because one of these days your biggest goal will be getting some sleep. not only that, but medicine sucks your time and life away so you stop doing all those other wonderful things that made you you-hiking, painting, writing, marathon running-whatever it is you do. i read house of god first year of med school and thought it was wrong and pitiful. i read it again in fourth year and thought it was excellent.
anyway, rarely a day goes by that i don't think, wouldn't it be nice just to be a high school teacher, or anything else, really? and honestly, i like my specialty just fine. most days, there are certain times where i actually like what i do. but the question always is, is it worth it? man, is it? it's not worth it for the money, because i could have a better life and still make decent $. it's not worth it for the sense that you're "helping people" because you're not and they don't care if you are anyway. it seems logical to stick it out since i'm so close, but i often wonder, why? why do we just plow through and stick it out?
probably like most of us here, i did the volunteer work and the research and the shadowing and everything else to try to figure out what things would be like. i was also probably disgustingly altruistically motivated. people talked about the money in medicine and i thought they were jerks and fools. all i wanted to do was to make life better for the poor and disenfranchised, to help people that needed it most. i saw people ahead like me and said i could never be like that. and then i even planned and plotted ways to avoid that "downfall." well, i don't know exactly when i lost all that youthful energy and motivation, but medicine really kills your spirit. all of you premeds and even early med students who think you are going to do all these activities to change the world, please, do more while you still can. do all you can because one of these days your biggest goal will be getting some sleep. not only that, but medicine sucks your time and life away so you stop doing all those other wonderful things that made you you-hiking, painting, writing, marathon running-whatever it is you do. i read house of god first year of med school and thought it was wrong and pitiful. i read it again in fourth year and thought it was excellent.
anyway, rarely a day goes by that i don't think, wouldn't it be nice just to be a high school teacher, or anything else, really? and honestly, i like my specialty just fine. most days, there are certain times where i actually like what i do. but the question always is, is it worth it? man, is it? it's not worth it for the money, because i could have a better life and still make decent $. it's not worth it for the sense that you're "helping people" because you're not and they don't care if you are anyway. it seems logical to stick it out since i'm so close, but i often wonder, why? why do we just plow through and stick it out?
I wasn't actually keeping note on this thread anymore, but somebody recently PMed me about it. I'm not here to argue anymore, just to say I appreciate the input, advice, and insight many of you had to offer. You're right. I can't say I understand any of what you're going through, because I haven't been through it. All I know is that everyday for the past two years, I've woken up just wanting to be medical school, to be on my way to that MD, right then and there. I guess I just busted out with all my excitement, passion, frustration on this thread.
I'm genuinely sorry for offending any med students that are going through hell right now. I appreciate those of you who responded with logistical or at least mature comments. My own nasty remarks may have been sparked or exacerbated by a few irrational posts with little substance and excessive insults. Anyway, I'll come back in a few years, and hopefully my spirit won't be beat, but as you have all made so abundantly clear, I won't know till I've been there. Good luck to all of you - congrats on coming this far, and all the best in pushing through the home stretch.
I'm genuinely sorry for offending any med students that are going through hell right now. I appreciate those of you who responded with logistical or at least mature comments. My own nasty remarks may have been sparked or exacerbated by a few irrational posts with little substance and excessive insults. Anyway, I'll come back in a few years, and hopefully my spirit won't be beat, but as you have all made so abundantly clear, I won't know till I've been there. Good luck to all of you - congrats on coming this far, and all the best in pushing through the home stretch.
Realest said:
Sweet. I love evolution 😍👍
Welcome to the land of "We Who Admittedly Don't Know Everything."
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knuffa said:
I am only a third year but I went experienced this same sentiment during my trauma surgery rotation. I spend most of my clinical experience at an inner city hospital where I deal with these people continually. I am glad to hear that I went through it much sooner than you. I was planning on going into IM and subspecializing. My solution was that I decided to go into pediatrics and subspecializing after that and my attitude towards life has been significantly better since I made this decision. I feel much more invigorated at the children's hospital. Maybe it is just the bright colors, but it still makes me feel good. Sure you deal with crazy concerned parents but I would take overconcerned parents over adult patients destroying themselves with obesity, drugs, alcohol, and non-compliance. In general, kids get better quicker and they only have one or two issues. They do not have a significant PMH. I know people are going to bash pediatrics and say they do not make any money. It is true. But the lowest paid physician makes much much more than the average American. The field offers you a zillion options after general peds residency. I have also been told by a future surgeon that doing well in medical school earns you the privilege of working with adults, and peds is basically for th people who couldnt get to the top of the class. But the bottom line is I would rather love what I do than be in some glorified high paying specialty. I would rather give up a million dollars in income over a lifetime than have the same feelings about my job as the OP. And I do not think radiology or any other "lifestyle" specialty is the answer to your problem. In your post, I did not hear you say anything about your disdain for the money or lifestyle of IM. You hate the work that IM intails and you hate the lifestyle of residency in general and thus hate your life. You will just as miserable if you hate the work of any other specialty regardless of the money and lifestyle.
One more recommendation for you. People have told me several times that you should not base your opinion on patients by working at an inner city hospital. A lot of the issues you described are much less prevalent in a nice cozy community hospital. Have you thought of transferring to a community program? I imagine the work would still be tough but you will be working with people who are generally healthier, nicer, more functional, and better educated.
P
prlester
is it possible to have a life outside of medicine in medical school? i am on a rural campus but near a big city. i dont know anyone around here and have little time to meet.
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RADRULES said:
911 turbo...what do you think of the cayman that porsche will be introducing soon...from what I understand it will be marketed to those individuals who can comfortably afford a boxter s or maybe even a carrera 4s but don't have the coin to get the turbo...all the rad attendings I know drive "beaters" to work everyday...I guess they have their toys at home for the weekends...although I do know some rad residents that has an e46 M3 and the other has a H2 Hummer...
Idiopathic said:
Can you tell me what careers in medicine I would have with one year of internship and step 3 under my belt.
thanks
sufibb
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Idiopathic said:
what are some examples of jobs within "corporate medicine"? i hear this term all the time, but i don't have a clear idea of what it entails.
does "corporate medicine" require additional MBA/MPH training? how does one enter into "corporate medicine"?
any insight would be appreciated. thank you.
good luck to the original poster.
