Feeling Depressed

[greytwhale]

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Second year university student, Biochemistry, GPA 3.7+, TA for a Chemistry class for a semester, i've been working in a Microbiology lab at a hospital for almost a year now. I also trade stocks on a large scale level, and am hoping to start a business out of this in a few years.

Got caught for cheating 3-4 weeks back. Straight up earned an F grade. Possible transcription notation. I'm very filled with regret about this all, and realize that what i've done is wrong.
The story: Family stress, many problems going on in my life for past 2 months. Cracked under the pressure. Decided I could earn a few points back by changing a few free response answers. Professors realized I changed them up, and have given me an "F" for the class. My school's academic misconduct committee has yet to decide on a possible institutional punishment, although based off of what i've been hearing from multiple sources, since it is my first incident, it will only be a record within the system that says, "yes this student has an incident of academic misconduct."

I realize that the world isn't all colorful rainbows, and that there are going to be multiple people that are going to tell me to leave this forum immediately because they are perfect human beings and that my sheer presence is dwindling away at their livelihoods, but please. Can anyone give me a little hope? In the near future when i apply for medical schools, will I even have a chance at any Caribbean schools? I need some light guys.

 

[redpanda]

Second year university student, Biochemistry, GPA 3.7+, TA for a Chemistry class for a semester, i've been working in a Microbiology lab at a hospital for almost a year now. I also trade stocks on a large scale level, and am hoping to start a business out of this in a few years.

Got caught for cheating 3-4 weeks back. Straight up earned an F grade. Possible transcription notation. I'm very filled with regret about this all, and realize that what i've done is wrong.
The story: Family stress, many problems going on in my life for past 2 months. Cracked under the pressure. Decided I could earn a few points back by changing a few free response answers. Professors realized I changed them up, and have given me an "F" for the class. My school's academic misconduct committee has yet to decide on a possible institutional punishment, although based off of what i've been hearing from multiple sources, since it is my first incident, it will only be a record within the system that says, "yes this student has an incident of academic misconduct."

I realize that the world isn't all colorful rainbows, and that there are going to be multiple people that are going to tell me to leave this forum immediately because they are perfect human beings and that my sheer presence is dwindling away at their livelihoods, but please. Can anyone give me a little hope? In the near future when i apply for medical schools, will I even have a chance at any Caribbean schools? I need some light guys.

Erm, wait. Is what I'm taking out of this that you went into a computer system and changed some answers that would have an impact on your grade? If this is true, this is going to be devastating (if not fatal) for med school applications.

 

[greytwhale]

Erm, wait. Is what I'm taking out of this that you went into a computer system and changed some answers that would have an impact on your grade? If this is true, this is going to be devastating (if not fatal) for med school applications.

No, what happened is that it was an Organic Chemistry free response. It was graded and handed back. I changed up a few answers, showed it to the professor. Sounds petty, I know..

 

[redpanda]

No, what happened is that it was an Organic Chemistry free response. It was graded and handed back. I changed up a few answers, showed it to the professor. Sounds petty, I know..

That's...ridiculous. See my response above, because I wouldn't change it based on that.

 

[Dipdoc]

No, what happened is that it was an Organic Chemistry free response. It was graded and handed back. I changed up a few answers, showed it to the professor. Sounds petty, I know..

I gotta agree with 'redpanda,' that's cheating at its worst. I don't see how you could recover from something like that.

 

[Relax!]

Making up for this is going to be extremely hard. You seem to have great credentials otherwise. Integrity is an important characteristic that adcoms look at. To have a shot at medical schools, wait for a few years after graduating and pursue activities that show that you have grown, matured, and learned from this incident. Apply very broadly--you can't be choosy. And don't hide anything in your applications or interviews. I don't want to depress you further but remember, as a smart human being, you would likely be very successful in another path as well if medicine does not work out for you. But don't go to the Caribbean just for the sake of earning a medical degree. It's just too risky. If you search SDN for posts regarding Caribbean schools, you will realize that they are risky options. Good luck and I hope you don't get institutional punishment.

 

[greytwhale]

Making up for this is going to be extremely hard. You seem to have great credentials otherwise. Integrity is an important characteristic that adcoms look at. To have a shot at medical schools, wait for a few years after graduating and pursue activities that show that you have grown, matured, and learned from this incident. Apply very broadly--you can't be choosy. And don't hide anything in your applications or interviews. I don't want to depress you further but remember, as a smart human being, you would likely be very successful in another path as well if medicine does not work out for you. But don't go to the Caribbean just for the sake of earning a medical degree. It's just too risky. If you search SDN for posts regarding Caribbean schools, you will realize that they are risky options. Good luck and I hope you don't get institutional punishment.

Thank you Sir! I appreciate the kind words. My goal is to go to a Caribbean school. I just hope and pray that those don't become reach schools for me. I contacted SGU's admissions office, and I understand that they are probably lying on the phone, but anyways, they transferred me to speak with a 4th year student currently attending that medical school, and I had a long talk with her. She was telling me straight up that lots of kids end up in the same shoes as me, they make a big cheating mistake, and know it was a bad decision. SGU forgives those kinds of people and still takes them in sometimes. THERES HOPE IN THE WORLD GUYS!

 

[Doug Underhill]

SGU just wants your money, they don't actually think you could be a physician. Personally, I think a $200,000 fine AND being barred from being a doctor for life is way too harsh of a penalty for what you did. Don't go to the Carribean.

 

[Mad Jack]

Getting caught cheating is no reason to go to the Carib. You'll end up with piles of debt you can't discharge that will literally ruin the rest of your life (unless you have wealthy parents or something, in which case, just be ready to have wasted four years of your life). I don't know the best way to proceed if you want to be a physician trained in the US, but really would encourage you to find another field. All adcoms will see from your story is that when push comes to shove (and it will many, many times in your future schooling and career) you're willing to cheat to get ahead. I'm not trying to crush your dreams or anything, just being realistic.

 

[greytwhale]

SGU just wants your money, they don't actually think you could be a physician. Personally, I think a $200,000 fine AND being barred from being a doctor for life is way too harsh of a penalty for what you did. Don't go to the Carribean.

Doug, i don't know. I honestly feel like my chances at any regular MD school in the U.S. are next to none, not trying to say that my chances at any Caribbean school aren't gone already, too.. The thing is, I feel like my chances at a Caribbean school are still much higher. Throughout my life, from my grandparents and parents have taught me that if you're smart, you can be successful in life. Even if you fail or fall down once, there is almost always a way to recover from it. Something that I've been feeling depressed about these past few weeks is that my chances at regular MD schools in the U.S. are gone now. And i realize that Caribbean med schools are a bad bet, but it's better to take a chance at restarting there and working very hard to get into a match, then to not get into any medical school at all. I know that I can become a doctor so long as I pray and work hard. But my chances in the United States are gone.. Unless you think different. Thank you Doug, for replying and being kind. You kind words are seriously helping me out. The fact that you implied that I can possibly get into SGU, i'm thankful.

 

[AspiringERMD]

Wait, I don't get it. If it's only going to show up within the system as academic misconduct, then doesn't that imply that it won't ever be revealed on your permanent record? Or maybe I misunderstood.

 

[greytwhale]

Wait, I don't get it. If it's only going to show up within the system as academic misconduct, then doesn't that imply that it won't ever be revealed on your permanent record? Or maybe I misunderstood.

I understand what your saying friend, and i've thought about it this way. The thing is, I can't live like this anymore. I never want to cheat any sort of system again. I've cheated once, and i've learned my lesson. I know that I won't be able to live with myself if I don't mention this on AMCAS applications. I know that I would get caught. I also believe that my school's Pre-Med Advisory Committee would mention this act of academic misconduct on the letters they send on my behalf.

My Dream school is the F. Edward Herbert Military Medical school. With an academic misconduct infraction, i'm not sure how they would react to this during apps process.

 

[AspiringERMD]

I understand what your saying friend, and i've thought about it this way. The thing is, I can't live like this anymore. I never want to cheat any sort of system again. I've cheated once, and i've learned my lesson. I know that I won't be able to live with myself if I don't mention this on AMCAS applications. I know that I would get caught. I also believe that my school's Pre-Med Advisory Committee would mention this act of academic misconduct on the letters they send on my behalf.

My Dream school is the F. Edward Herbert Military Medical school. With an academic misconduct infraction, i'm not sure how they would react to this during apps process.

I think you may be making a mountain out of a molehill if it's not going to show up on your transcript. Your desire to report it on your AMCAS for transparency is admirable, but it's not worth being banished to the Caribbean over, never becoming a doctor, and ruining your life irreparably. It sounds like you are genuinely remorseful and won't do it again, and that's really the key. If you are being honest about that, then in medical school you will be on the same level of honesty as everyone else who doesn't cheat.

If your school insists it won't show up on your transcript, then just don't use a committee letter. I didn't use one; I just got individual LORs. Have them mail you an official transcript so you can see it for yourself.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Start pleading to anybody you can. Admit fault and inform your professors and the committee that you were insane to change an answer for a few extra points. Show them you can't have an IA because it might terminate your chances of getting into medical school; don't go down without a fight! I've read about too many people that just give up, so to speak. You need to do anything to avoid an IA.

 

[rodmichael82]

OP, I don't know what's up with this month but a lot of people have been posting about cheating.

Let's get the record state. An IA due to cheating is a DEATH SENTENCE to your medical career. You'd be lucky if you could even make a come back 5-10 years from today. I don't want to be harsh but your petty actions for a couple points have literally just destroyed your life.

Now let's see what you can do:-

1. Fight the IA. A lot of people say don't get attorneys etc... but there are some attorneys that deal with academic/university cases, I would go and talk to them just to get an opinion. If you get the right attorney you might be able to avoid an IA or your record or get a plea deal where it's removed upon graduation assuming you don't F up again (I've heard of a case like this happening in the past so it's very possible). That alone would allow you to go to MD or DO schools with little to no problem at all. I think dropping even 5-10k on an attorney is worth it, if he can avoid an IA on your record because avoiding an IA will literally save you millions in lifetime salary. Begging and pleading to the committee or the professor is too risky, 99 % of the time they'll say F you and put the IA on your record for good. GET AN ACADEMIC ATTORNEY SERIOUSLY. An attorney knows how to talk to people, what to say and what not to say. 99 % of the time they are going to do a better job than you at presenting your case to any governing body, be it even the college honor committee.
On google search put, "Your state" Education lawyer. Find an attorney that fights cases for College honor and judicial hearings, you could even put that in google search. I just found tons in my state.

2. If you're able to avoid an IA then you don't have to disclose this to AMCAS or AACOMAS to the best of my understanding and you can still have a shot at medical school.

3. If you do get an IA, I would do a lot of extracurricular activities, I'm talking about something out of the norm. Maybe joining the military, working in Africa. Something to which the med school admissions committee can look and be like you know what he made a mistake but look at all the good he has done. Unfortunately this will throw you off the medical path for at least 5 years if you're lucky. If you get an IA apply to MD schools after 5 years and maybe DO schools after 3 years. I can tell you that DO schools do NOT tolerate academic dishonesty but based on some experiences of my friends DO schools are a little bit more understanding and forgiving than MD schools. DO schools will value your father/mother Teresa extracurricular activities more than MD schools and thus give you some hope of getting into a U.S medical school.

4. Do NOT go to Caribbean schools be it even SGU because you would be taking loans out just to scrape a residency spot in FM or IM. Every single day at a Caribbean school will be a survival. You'll be acting like you're Brad Pitt in Fight club but not as good looking. That's just outright depressing as hell. Go DO but don't do Caribbean. The reason why I mentioned this is that my friend scored > 260 from SGU but hardly matched into IM this year even though he wanted to do General Surgery so please save yourself the misery.

 

[Kochanie]

I understand what your saying friend, and i've thought about it this way. The thing is, I can't live like this anymore. I never want to cheat any sort of system again. I've cheated once, and i've learned my lesson. I know that I won't be able to live with myself if I don't mention this on AMCAS applications. I know that I would get caught. I also believe that my school's Pre-Med Advisory Committee would mention this act of academic misconduct on the letters they send on my behalf.

My Dream school is the F. Edward Herbert Military Medical school. With an academic misconduct infraction, i'm not sure how they would react to this during apps process.

That makes sense, but if it's not an IA, why would you report it as such?

 

[Pierre Escargot]

why can't you guys recognize a troll when one comes around? take a gander at Doug Underhill's post and the last sentence of OP's subsequent response:

SGU just wants your money, they don't actually think you could be a physician. Personally, I think a $200,000 fine AND being barred from being a doctor for life is way too harsh of a penalty for what you did. Don't go to the Carribean.

Thank you Doug, for replying and being kind. You kind words are seriously helping me out. The fact that you implied that I can possibly get into SGU, i'm thankful.

edit: i'm not trying to say that Doug wasn't kind, but rather that what OP supposedly gathered from Doug's cautionary post that he can 'possibly get into SGU'

 

[thepoopologist]

No, what happened is that it was an Organic Chemistry free response. It was graded and handed back. I changed up a few answers, showed it to the professor. Sounds petty, I know..

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. It says a lot about your underlying character to resort to doing something like that. Yes, even once. It tells me that your moral foundations can crack under pressure, that under pressure you are unable to properly weigh the benefits and consequences of a course of action within the context of your current abilities, and that you value your GPA more as a vehicle to enter graduate education rather than an accurate measure of your knowledge base. It is concerning if a person like this is placed in medical school and then residency because there is increased and constant pressure in these settings and a deficit of the above mentioned can harm and kill people. The act itself isn't the issue as much as what it implies about the person, the underlying character that takes many years to form. I personally find cheating an unforgivable act regardless of the situation and had I caught you as a medical student rotating under me you would be in a bad spot.

The more practical and nihilistic advice is that if the transcription notation can be avoided, then I think you're in the clear and no one but us will ever know. "What's this F about?" they'll ask. "My grandma died," you'll answer.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Poopologist is chiding the TC for academic dishonesty and then one paragraph later recommends lying to an adcom.

Also, I honestly don't know, but isn't an F for cheating itself an institutional action? The institution is taking action against you for cheating: they're giving you an F.

 

[DokterMom]

Yours might be one of the EXTRAORDINARILY FEW situations where a Caribbean medical school might make sense.

Can you get in? Absolutely. Your money is as good as the next persons, so no worries there.

Can you make it through? Most likely. Your academic qualifications are strong enough for US MD, so if you work hard, you'll most likely be able to be near the top of your class academically. (But if you need a supportive learning environment to succeed, tread carefully, because that's not what you'll find there.)

Can you pass your STEP 1 and 2 exams on the first try? Probably, if you work hard, since word is Step 1 especially is up to you and how hard you study. (Are you self-motivated and disciplined?)

Can you then secure a residency in the US? That's where the real risk is for someone in your position. I'll say that for the very top students who score well on Steps 1 and 2 and apply for a huge number of non-competitive residencies in non-competitive specialties and unpopular locations, your chances of matching somewhere are decent. But your chances of not matching are also pretty considerable.

Yeah, that's a $300K risky investment for a 'decent' chance at being able to practice medicine in the US, and a very realistic chance of NOT being able to practice in the US. That is your current situation.

If you are willing to put several years into rehabilitating your reputation, you might someday stand a chance of US MD or DO, but it'll be a long time coming with (I'd expect) low odds even then. Your misconduct was not the panicked glance at a classmate's answer sheet, but a pre-meditated act, so, in my personal opinion, the type I'd be least likely to look past.

Personally, if you're good at finance, it sounds like a much more suitable place. Bending the rules there seems pretty commonplace...

 

[Goro]

I can't sugar coat this; if this IA ends up on your transcript, your medical career is effectively in stasis for the next 5-10 years.

You will be asked to explain your IA on app forms, so don't think the bland notation that your transcript might give would shield you from anything.

Yes, 5-10 years. At that time you will need to demonstrate that the you of 2019-2024 is not the you of 2014 by prolonged display of exemplary behavior, especially in positions of responsibility.

If you would crack under such pressure now, what would you do under real pressure, like dealing with patients' lives???

My clinical colleagues take professionalism very seriously because there's ample evidence that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students.

Carib diploma mills will gladly take your money, as long as you have a pulse; they don't have ethics, so why should they care if you don't have any?

Second year university student, Biochemistry, GPA 3.7+, TA for a Chemistry class for a semester, i've been working in a Microbiology lab at a hospital for almost a year now. I also trade stocks on a large scale level, and am hoping to start a business out of this in a few years.

Got caught for cheating 3-4 weeks back. Straight up earned an F grade. Possible transcription notation. I'm very filled with regret about this all, and realize that what i've done is wrong.
The story: Family stress, many problems going on in my life for past 2 months. Cracked under the pressure. Decided I could earn a few points back by changing a few free response answers. Professors realized I changed them up, and have given me an "F" for the class. My school's academic misconduct committee has yet to decide on a possible institutional punishment, although based off of what i've been hearing from multiple sources, since it is my first incident, it will only be a record within the system that says, "yes this student has an incident of academic misconduct."

I realize that the world isn't all colorful rainbows, and that there are going to be multiple people that are going to tell me to leave this forum immediately because they are perfect human beings and that my sheer presence is dwindling away at their livelihoods, but please. Can anyone give me a little hope? In the near future when i apply for medical schools, will I even have a chance at any Caribbean schools? I need some light guys.

 

[zzxxzz]

GET AN ACADEMIC ATTORNEY SERIOUSLY. An attorney knows how to talk to people, what to say and what not to say. 99 % of the time they are going to do a better job than you at presenting your case to any governing body, be it even the college honor committee.

The vast majority of schools bar attorneys or any other type of representation from participating in the actual hearings in any way. You agree to this when you sign the school honor code; if you don't believe me, go read a few honor agreements. If you've been following the news, this has been a hotly-discussed issue in college rape hearings.

Besides, this isn't a winnable case. The disputable cases are usually due to two people having very similar answers, etc, but no absolute proof. Based on OP's post, the professor can prove he changed his answers. End of story.


P.S. At my undergraduate institution, this would've resulted in immediate expulsion. Consider yourself lucky, OP.