feeling like a blacksheep

[dragonfly99]

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I STILL say the OP just needs to go talk with the attending, just ask "How do you think I am doing? What I am I doing well/adequately? And what can I do better?". It's just hard for people to give you an outright bad evaluation, which is what all students fear, if you've been regularly seeking feedback. The attending and resident CAN still do it, but it's just going to be harder for them to do it, psychologically speaking, unless they are just ogres. Also, if they are on the fence about how to grade you, they may think, "Gosh, he was really interested in doing well, improved throughout the rotation [i.e. did things more and more the way THEY wanted them done], maybe we should just give him the benefit of the doubt, give him the honors or high pass rather than a 'pass'".

 

[soulofmpatel]

Trouble is the OP identifies himself as a US-IMG which is a US citizen trained abroad (most likely the Caribbean). Thus, not FOB although he does state that English is not his first language.

Excellent point...although I feel that portions of my advice are still valid.

 

[harmnot]

NOTHING about your post is VALID! You have included so much assumptions about me its really ridiculous. Your callous remarks says more about you than its depiction of me. I am very familiar with the "subtleties of American culture" and that also includes PREJUDICE! My job does not entail the "need to fit in by making people around me laugh". I can't believe I just entertained your post. To contrast your counterproductive post, I will say that I appreciate the responses of those who have given me some helpful advices without the nitpick of grammar or closet resentments. I don't claim to be an outstanding student, but I am trying to learn and do everything within my power to meet the challenges that comes with studying medicine. And for this my efforts have been acknowledged by all of the attendings and residents that I have cross paths. This particular group of attendings, residents and medical students however just happen to have some individuals that exercise heavy bias that makes it harder to keep the focus on learning medicine. I don't think my "sub par" grammar or caribean medical student status has anything to do with these particular US med students lying about going to a mandatory conference or avoiding clinic hours and not getting the wrath that US-IMG students receive. So thats my "real deal" to you soulofmpatel! BTW, go eat some humble pie.

Sigh...I'm going to have to give the real deal to the OP once again.

OP: You are a FOB. Fresh Off the Boat. Your language skills are sub-par, you're socially awkward, you're not familiar with subtleties of American culture, and you're not familiar with the American style of medicine.

You probably look nervous and helpless to your attending, she s/he is trying to help you save face by not pimping you. If you want to participate, you need to look comfortable and confident. You need to be the kind of girl/guy who chats up the other students/residents/attendings during down time. You need to make people laugh. You have to speak with an accent that people can understand.

You can't be that weird quiet foreign kid that no one can understand. You might be a genius, but it doesn't matter. It's not good enough.

Assimilating into American language and culture takes years. You might try making American friends to accelerate the process.

 

[Foodie]

Why is this thread in "General Residency Issues" forum and not in "Clinical Rotations"?

My job does not entail the "need to fit in by making people around me laugh". I don't claim to be an outstanding student, but I am trying to learn and do everything within my power to meet the challenges that comes with studying medicine. And for this my efforts have been acknowledged by all of the attendings and residents that I have cross paths. This particular group of attendings, residents and medical students however just happen to have some individuals that exercise heavy bias that makes it harder to keep the focus on learning medicine.

Harmnot, no one is saying that you have to be a comedian. However, you do need to get along with your team, and the best way is to be their buddy or at least take on some semblance of it. Sometimes being nice, eager, and helpful is just not enough. Offer to pick up dinner if you are on call with your team. Recommend a good movie you've seen recently (with an intelligent comment on the side). Be interested in your team members.

It sucks when your hard work and enthusiasm go unrecognized. I take it from your concerned tone that you are an MS3. At this point, you have two choices: 1) step up your game and try to pull the team towards you, as others have advised, or 2) accept that it's too late to fix this situation and start anew with following rotations.

If you're nearing the end of this rotation, I highly recommend 2).

But clearly this is causing you emotional grief and you feel the need to reclaim your status as an abused, pimped medical student. So go ahead, ask your senior resident and attendings how you're doing and how you can improve. I wouldn't bring up the issue of your "not being recognized as an equal" to anyone on your team, because that will just make you sound whiney. Talk about it with your advisor/course coordinator, though, so that he is aware of the situation. If you haven't done so already, know everything about your patients and maybe even read up on other interesting cases on the team's service so you can ask questions. Show up early to everything. Look clean and wholesome. Smile. Be your awesomest without looking too eager to be accepted or making other students look bad. Keep working on your physical exam and oral presentation skills to make them superb.

Hopefully you won't have to work with this bunch again. I don't know if your current rotation is in a specialty you want to go into, but if it is not, save yourself a heartache and focus on being stellar in the future rotations, just as you have done so in the past rotations.

 

[dragonfly99]

Harmnot, no one is saying that you have to be a comedian. However, you do need to get along with your team, and the best way is to be their buddy or at least take on some semblance of it. Sometimes being nice, eager, and helpful is just not enough. Offer to pick up dinner if you are on call with your team. Recommend a good movie you've seen recently (with an intelligent comment on the side). Be interested in your team members.

It sucks when your hard work and enthusiasm go unrecognized. I take it from your concerned tone that you are an MS3. At this point, you have two choices: 1) step up your game and try to pull the team towards you, as others have advised, or 2) accept that it's too late to fix this situation and start anew with following rotations.

If you're nearing the end of this rotation, I highly recommend 2).

But clearly this is causing you emotional grief and you feel the need to reclaim your status as an abused, pimped medical student. So go ahead, ask your senior resident and attendings how you're doing and how you can improve. I wouldn't bring up the issue of your "not being recognized as an equal" to anyone on your team, because that will just make you sound whiney. Talk about it with your advisor/course coordinator, though, so that he is aware of the situation. If you haven't done so already, know everything about your patients and maybe even read up on other interesting cases on the team's service so you can ask questions. Show up early to everything. Look clean and wholesome. Smile. Be your awesomest without looking too eager to be accepted or making other students look bad. Keep working on your physical exam and oral presentation skills to make them superb.

Hopefully you won't have to work with this bunch again. I don't know if your current rotation is in a specialty you want to go into, but if it is not, save yourself a heartache and focus on being stellar in the future rotations, just as you have done so in the past rotations.

I agree with all of this, except the part about offering to fetch the team dinner. IMHO this (having med students fetch food for the house staff) is a heinous tradition that needs to go the way of the dinosaur. I never allowed this on any of my teams during residency. When I was a med student this became so widespread on rotations that it was interfering with the education of students and the house staff were banned from being able to ask students to fetch lunch or dinner.
sorry to rant...I guess it's one of my pet peeves.

OP, as far as you saying that you aren't there to amuse people, make jokes, etc. I feel your pain but to be honest, that's the way life is. It's that way in medicine, and in other professions and jobs too. I learned this the hard way as well, as you seem to be doing. You will be judged (and graded/evaluated) not necessarily on your level of knowledge or how you take care of patients, but based on a lot of subjective factors and especially on how well your attending "likes" you. Some of it you can control, and some of it you can't.

 

[harmnot]

Why is this thread in "General Residency Issues" forum and not in "Clinical Rotations"?

Harmnot, no one is saying that you have to be a comedian. However, you do need to get along with your team, and the best way is to be their buddy or at least take on some semblance of it. Sometimes being nice, eager, and helpful is just not enough. Offer to pick up dinner if you are on call with your team. Recommend a good movie you've seen recently (with an intelligent comment on the side). Be interested in your team members.

It sucks when your hard work and enthusiasm go unrecognized. I take it from your concerned tone that you are an MS3. At this point, you have two choices: 1) step up your game and try to pull the team towards you, as others have advised, or 2) accept that it's too late to fix this situation and start anew with following rotations.

If you're nearing the end of this rotation, I highly recommend 2).

But clearly this is causing you emotional grief and you feel the need to reclaim your status as an abused, pimped medical student. So go ahead, ask your senior resident and attendings how you're doing and how you can improve. I wouldn't bring up the issue of your "not being recognized as an equal" to anyone on your team, because that will just make you sound whiney. Talk about it with your advisor/course coordinator, though, so that he is aware of the situation. If you haven't done so already, know everything about your patients and maybe even read up on other interesting cases on the team's service so you can ask questions. Show up early to everything. Look clean and wholesome. Smile. Be your awesomest without looking too eager to be accepted or making other students look bad. Keep working on your physical exam and oral presentation skills to make them superb.

Hopefully you won't have to work with this bunch again. I don't know if your current rotation is in a specialty you want to go into, but if it is not, save yourself a heartache and focus on being stellar in the future rotations, just as you have done so in the past rotations.

My responses were to soulofmpatel. Trust me, I am VERY aware of how to be socially relevant enough to fit in without compromising my integrity/dignity. I show up early, get my readings done, tell jokes when its appropriate, even offer to pay for someone's meal if they forgot their money, etc. The reason why I believe that its not me is because there are the two attendings here that actually have already offered to write me a lor, the one resident who was cold to me in the very begining has come around. I just have issue with one attending in particular with whom I have to work with more often. Anyway, this is going to be my last post on this subject. You are right, this post could/should belong under clinical rotation, however, I was hoping that by posting it here, I could catch the attention of certain attendings and residents who happen to have non US students who DO work hard and that maybe they can be given the same treatment and opportunities to learn ...just be fair. Now, I have worked alongside with both US-IMGs and US med students and if you did not know where they went to med. school, you'll see a mix of lazy, deceitful, intelligent, and those with good bed side manners across the board. Dragonfly99, I wanted to especially give you much thanks for always giving informed advices supplemented with respect and understanding. Medical school is not an easy or short road, its a freaking long ass journey riddled with frustration, insults, challenges up the ying yang but I wouldn't change it for the world...well...

 

[soulofmpatel]

NOTHING about your post is VALID! You have included so much assumptions about me(😉 its really ridiculous. Your callous remarks says more about you than its depiction of me. I am very familiar with the "subtleties of American culture(,)" and that also includes PREJUDICE! My job does not entail the "need to fit in by making people around me laugh". I can't believe I just entertained your post. To contrast your counterproductive post, I will say that I appreciate the responses of those who have given me some helpful advices without the nitpick of grammar or closet resentments. I don't claim to be an outstanding student, but I am trying to learn and do everything within my power to meet the challenges that comes with studying medicine. And for this(,) my efforts have been acknowledged by all of the attendings and residents that I have cross paths. This particular group of attendings, residents and medical students(,) however(,) just happen to have some individuals that exercise heavy bias that makes it harder to keep the focus on learning medicine. I don't think my "sub par" grammar or caribean medical student status has anything to do with these particular US med students lying about going to a mandatory conference or avoiding clinic hours and not getting the wrath that US-IMG students receive. So thats my "real deal" to you soulofmpatel! BTW, go eat some humble pie.

You know...when you're going to criticize someone's brutal honesty and claim that nothing about it is valid, you might want to avoid validating the criticism with your response.

For example:

1) Your post includes multiple errors that your typical well-educated American would not commonly make (some in bold above). This suggests that we might be right about your language skills.

2) You come off as self-entitled and combative. Is this the kind of attitude attendings/residents want from their students? I don't think so.

Why would you accuse me of "closet resentments?" I'll tell you outright that I prefer working with Americans. They are easier to understand and more fun to work with. I'm not saying that FOBs aren't qualified in terms of medical knowledge/skills. I'm just saying that there's more to medicine than meets the eye, and it would be in your best interest to accepts this and move forward.

I have personally received both worse and better evaluations than I deserved based on my respective relationships with attendings who evaluated me.

 

[radslooking]

Blonde Docteur,

I taught college in NYC and I had many American-born, "expensively privately educated" students whose syntax and spelling looked exactly like this. I also had many immigrant students, facing constant financial and visa status hardships, whose written English was flawless.

My point is that language skills have nothing to do with being "expensively privately educated". They have everything to do with a love of learning and hard work stemming from the parents that the child picks up or not.

Moderators: Would you agree that this thread belongs in the Clinical Rotations section rather than in the General Residency sub-forum?

I see Blondie's point, you don't want to deviate too far from the norm of good speech and good presentation, otherwise ur gonna stick out. However, I am a bit of a *****, and I've been fairly expensively educated, but I've made it fine. i would agree it's best to stick with the general norms during your med training. Being different usually brings more heat than kudos.

 

[Elfy]

I see Blondie's point, you don't want to deviate too far from the norm of good speech and good presentation, otherwise ur gonna stick out. However, I am a bit of a *****, and I've been fairly expensively educated, but I've made it fine. i would agree it's best to stick with the general norms during your med training. Being different usually brings more heat than kudos.

I don't see how it can possibly benefit this thread to keep rehashing this, but since you insist...

I haven't been expensively privately educated (except for a master's degree at an Ivy that was fully funded) and I have nothing against those who are. I generally try not to judge anyone, but if I ever did, my character judgment would be based on their particular set of skills, not based on how much money their family spent to hone those skills.

 

[elresidante]

I am going to say something that might strike you as kind of mean. It will definitely strike you as unfair. It's meant to be a "this is the way the world is, NOT how it should be" kind of thing. But perhaps it could help you understand and address the problem. It's a sort of sociological analysis.

My medical school is a famous one, and a snobbish one.

The students who go to my medical school and its "peer institutions" in general have gone to famous colleges and were expensively privately educated before that. They are very polished, very bright, and present themselves to the world in a particular way. They speak fluently, present very well, and can discuss all matter of topics in an informed, educated way.

Medical students from the less famous schools come on service and immediately seem different. It has nothing to do with their medical knowledge or boards scores, which in many cases are equal or superior to the home students'.

Birds of a feather, blonde. I hope I never have to work with you in the future, and I'm sure a lot of others probably feel the same way. Obviously this person just wanted some support / positive feedback, but maybe they don't teach that in etiquette school or wherever it was you came from. Oh - you told us, Columbia. Not cool.

 

[endreon]

you worked hard like all the other students
be proud
or else you will always feel not good enough
you ARE!