MD Feeling trapped in medicine -- post-MD careers that are portable overseas?

[SpanishMusical]

Hey everyone -- I've started feeling pretty trapped in medicine. I'm still early on in medical school (preclinical), and I went straight through, and I'm starting to realize I may want to do more than medicine can allow me to. I have friends who have had incredible experiences and past careers before school, and it really makes me feel trapped that "this is it", so to speak. Furthermore, I want to travel more than I currently can, and would love to live in Europe for some degree of time (most of my non-immediate family lives there, I am an EU citizen, and I speak the languages of the places I may be interested in going), if not permanently. However, as I understand it, medicine is very much not portable, and even with a US MD, licensure in the EU would be difficult (not to mention the difference in pay is substantial).

I think about my older brother who did computer science, and only needs to find a job somewhere else and get his visa approved, and to be honest I'm a little jealous (he did this and lived in Japan for 6 months with a well-paying CS job). I have no loans (have been on scholarship since undergrad), and sometimes fantasize about dropping out and going back to school for computer science just to have that flexibility in life (although I'd likely never actually go through with it). I took CS-major level AI and machine learning classes in undergrad, and made A's in them, so I think I could probably be complete the degree. I'm already planning on doing a research year out abroad, but even then, once that year is over, I'll be right back where I started and back on the same track.

Any experiences of people who have also felt this way? Am I as trapped as I think? Are there any good careers post-MD that will allow me some degree of flexibility in terms of where I live? Would love to still practice (am thinking peds or FM at the moment), but am open to exploring such options as consulting, public health, clinical trial coordination overseas, and others. I just don't know where to start.

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[Holmeslizzle]

I keep checking this post to see if anyone has insight. Is it possible to practice elsewhere in the world and then return to the US? Would love to know. Practicing Psychiatry via telemedicine is the only option I can think of - and I'm not even sure that overseas telemedicine is a real option.

 

[Goro]

Hey everyone -- I've started feeling pretty trapped in medicine. I'm still early on in medical school (preclinical), and I went straight through, and I'm starting to realize I may want to do more than medicine can allow me to. I have friends who have had incredible experiences and past careers before school, and it really makes me feel trapped that "this is it", so to speak. Furthermore, I want to travel more than I currently can, and would love to live in Europe for some degree of time (most of my non-immediate family lives there, I am an EU citizen, and I speak the languages of the places I may be interested in going), if not permanently. However, as I understand it, medicine is very much not portable, and even with a US MD, licensure in the EU would be difficult (not to mention the difference in pay is substantial).

I think about my older brother who did computer science, and only needs to find a job somewhere else and get his visa approved, and to be honest I'm a little jealous (he did this and lived in Japan for 6 months with a well-paying CS job). I have no loans (have been on scholarship since undergrad), and sometimes fantasize about dropping out and going back to school for computer science just to have that flexibility in life (although I'd likely never actually go through with it). I took CS-major level AI and machine learning classes in undergrad, and made A's in them, so I think I could probably be complete the degree. I'm already planning on doing a research year out abroad, but even then, once that year is over, I'll be right back where I started and back on the same track.

Any experiences of people who have also felt this way? Am I as trapped as I think? Are there any good careers post-MD that will allow me some degree of flexibility in terms of where I live? Would love to still practice (am thinking peds or FM at the moment), but am open to exploring such options as consulting, public health, clinical trial coordination overseas, and others. I just don't know where to start.

Can you elaborate on why you went to medical school? Did you not know what you were getting into?

 

[DarkBluMage]

Hey everyone -- I've started feeling pretty trapped in medicine. I'm still early on in medical school (preclinical), and I went straight through, and I'm starting to realize I may want to do more than medicine can allow me to. I have friends who have had incredible experiences and past careers before school, and it really makes me feel trapped that "this is it", so to speak. Furthermore, I want to travel more than I currently can, and would love to live in Europe for some degree of time (most of my non-immediate family lives there, I am an EU citizen, and I speak the languages of the places I may be interested in going), if not permanently. However, as I understand it, medicine is very much not portable, and even with a US MD, licensure in the EU would be difficult (not to mention the difference in pay is substantial).

I think about my older brother who did computer science, and only needs to find a job somewhere else and get his visa approved, and to be honest I'm a little jealous (he did this and lived in Japan for 6 months with a well-paying CS job). I have no loans (have been on scholarship since undergrad), and sometimes fantasize about dropping out and going back to school for computer science just to have that flexibility in life (although I'd likely never actually go through with it). I took CS-major level AI and machine learning classes in undergrad, and made A's in them, so I think I could probably be complete the degree. I'm already planning on doing a research year out abroad, but even then, once that year is over, I'll be right back where I started and back on the same track.

Any experiences of people who have also felt this way? Am I as trapped as I think? Are there any good careers post-MD that will allow me some degree of flexibility in terms of where I live? Would love to still practice (am thinking peds or FM at the moment), but am open to exploring such options as consulting, public health, clinical trial coordination overseas, and others. I just don't know where to start.

Do you feel trapped because you want to travel more or because you want to live in Europe? I know plenty of working physicians that take the time to travel. Travel during medical school isn’t very realistic due to the schedule but schedules vary among practicing physicians so travel opportunities are certainly better once you’re out of the school phase. Did you look at attending a medical school in Europe rather than the US? There’s also Doctors Without Borders if that’s something you’re looking for.

 

[wanderer534]

An American MD is a highly flexible degree. You are not trapped (quite the opposite really).

You can certainly do locums tenens in a number of countries easily (e.g. UAE, NZ, Australia, Israel, etc) or around the United States. That will give you an intense work schedule for a few weeks but it should yield good earnings (depending on location). You can work 6 months in Dubai or North Dakota, make decent money and then live in Europe with your family the other 6 months (rough example).

You can do non clinical work through the private sector - pharmaceuticals, investment banking, consulting. Some of these positions are or can be remote I'm sure.

You can also start your own ventures - whether it's starting a tutoring company or a nonprofit or a business from scratch. That will also give you flexibility to live wherever, do whatever once the venture takes off / stabilizes (could be a few years).

You don't need a whole computer science degree. You can do a full time coding bootcamp in 3-4 months during your M4 year (if you get enough time) and become a physician-coder (very rare but I've heard of one before).

Simply by virtue of being an American MD, you will have a lot of open doors.

As for where to start:
1. Get in touch with people who are doing things differently and see if you can get some mentorship. Even one conversation may set off an interesting path for you. I included the twitter link of one such doctor below.
2. Your medical school might have some non-traditional physician faculty (e.g. having multiple side gigs but they teach a little just for fun).
3. Reach out to your local public health / county health department and talk to the MDs there.
4. Some pharma or consulting companies offer internships for medical students. You can just apply (even without the intention of doing the internship) just to see what their process is like and maybe get some contacts from the process.
5. Most of all - because you're still early in the process - read a lot on the internet, including SDN, WCI, reddit, government health websites, international health websites, health tech sites, etc. Go read the bios of various MDs who are not in typical MD fields, find out more about them on google, and try to trace their path. For example, based on their LinkedIn profiles, you can see they did XYZ fellowship or they have ABC certification or they started some kind of company/product. There's a lot of fluff out there but once you can parse through it all, you will find very interesting paths that can give you ideas for your own career. I included a link to a podcast that profiles physicians who have had non traditional paths after their MD degree.

Good luck!

https://twitter.com/DocDifferently

 

[nyctopdoc]

It may be that you are just a bit burnt out, and that this feeling of being "trapped" will pass and you will realize how great medicine is. I would not give up on it just yet and give it some time and get into your preferred residency, etc before making the final decision. You can always pursue CS based on what you described, but you still have to see the "bottom" or "top" of medicine before making that final decision.

 

[operaman]

Tough call. You’re early enough that it’s easy to bail now but the cost is that you can never come back to medicine. If you know you simply don’t want to be a physician then maybe not a bad idea to get out now. If being a doc is still a possibility then probably worth sticking it out just to have the degree and residency to get a us license.

Clinical work that’s insurance based can’t be done legally from Europe in most cases because cms requires you to be on us soil. You also need to be licensed wherever the patient is located. For cash only practices you could probably manage it so long as you’re licensed in enough places to have enough patients.

Many docs will pick fields that allow for travel - EM, Hospitalist, and any locums based thing could allow you tons of time. The locums thing has always been my backup plan if I ever tire of the full time clinical work. I could generate enough to live comfortably and only work 3-4 months a year.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Wait a couple of years as American healthcare systems expand operations outside the US. Ask any US physicians if they work at Cleveland Clinic Dubai, London, or Toronto. Mayo too: Mayo Clinic Global Presence - Mayo Clinic

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Maybe consulting, but you wouldn’t make as much on average

 

[DasNotRacist]

An American MD is a highly flexible degree. You are not trapped (quite the opposite really).

You can certainly do locums tenens in a number of countries easily (e.g. UAE, NZ, Australia, Israel, etc) or around the United States. That will give you an intense work schedule for a few weeks but it should yield good earnings (depending on location). You can work 6 months in Dubai or North Dakota, make decent money and then live in Europe with your family the other 6 months (rough example).

You can do non clinical work through the private sector - pharmaceuticals, investment banking, consulting. Some of these positions are or can be remote I'm sure.

You can also start your own ventures - whether it's starting a tutoring company or a nonprofit or a business from scratch. That will also give you flexibility to live wherever, do whatever once the venture takes off / stabilizes (could be a few years).

You don't need a whole computer science degree. You can do a full time coding bootcamp in 3-4 months during your M4 year (if you get enough time) and become a physician-coder (very rare but I've heard of one before).

Simply by virtue of being an American MD, you will have a lot of open doors.

As for where to start:
1. Get in touch with people who are doing things differently and see if you can get some mentorship. Even one conversation may set off an interesting path for you. I included the twitter link of one such doctor below.
2. Your medical school might have some non-traditional physician faculty (e.g. having multiple side gigs but they teach a little just for fun).
3. Reach out to your local public health / county health department and talk to the MDs there.
4. Some pharma or consulting companies offer internships for medical students. You can just apply (even without the intention of doing the internship) just to see what their process is like and maybe get some contacts from the process.
5. Most of all - because you're still early in the process - read a lot on the internet, including SDN, WCI, reddit, government health websites, international health websites, health tech sites, etc. Go read the bios of various MDs who are not in typical MD fields, find out more about them on google, and try to trace their path. For example, based on their LinkedIn profiles, you can see they did XYZ fellowship or they have ABC certification or they started some kind of company/product. There's a lot of fluff out there but once you can parse through it all, you will find very interesting paths that can give you ideas for your own career. I included a link to a podcast that profiles physicians who have had non traditional paths after their MD degree.

Good luck!

https://twitter.com/DocDifferently

Good luck getting in. Most of these positions require a stellar academic pedigree (e.g., Top 20 MBA, Ivy League undergrad)

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Australia uses a lot of " Fly in" doctors. When we were in Cairnes, which is like Hawaii, over half.of the FPs were locums. They were offering $185k Australian which was like 150k US. Not bad to live in paradise.

 

[hallowmann]

Who told you that a US MD is not portable? One of the biggest barriers to working in the EU as a US trained physician is actually the preference for EU citizens. If you are already an EU citizen, you can work in multiple countries with a US MD provided you complete the required examinations/post-graduate trainings. This is completely aside from the other ways you can work internationally (there are actually some telehealth companies that allow physicians to be abroad as long as they are licensed where the patient is, although this is limited because of the aforementioned insurance requirements).

The bigger issue I'm seeing is that you are literally just starting your journey and doubting whether or not you like medicine over something like CS. If you truly like CS and would be happy doing it, do it. Medicine is a long and painful road, and your life is going to be pretty clearly structured throughout medical school and residency. After that, flexibility does abound though. If you truly want to do medicine, enjoy it, and find it stimulating, than stay the course and look into more international options.

 

[Gilakend]

I mean you're going to school for free, so I'd finish it. CS will always be there after, getting your MD won't be. imo that leaves all of your options open. I'm sure there is some career I've never heard of that might utilize both that I've never heard of. But regardless it's never bad to have options.

 

[OptionOffense]

Hey everyone -- I've started feeling pretty trapped in medicine. I'm still early on in medical school (preclinical), and I went straight through, and I'm starting to realize I may want to do more than medicine can allow me to. I have friends who have had incredible experiences and past careers before school, and it really makes me feel trapped that "this is it", so to speak. Furthermore, I want to travel more than I currently can, and would love to live in Europe for some degree of time (most of my non-immediate family lives there, I am an EU citizen, and I speak the languages of the places I may be interested in going), if not permanently. However, as I understand it, medicine is very much not portable, and even with a US MD, licensure in the EU would be difficult (not to mention the difference in pay is substantial).

I think about my older brother who did computer science, and only needs to find a job somewhere else and get his visa approved, and to be honest I'm a little jealous (he did this and lived in Japan for 6 months with a well-paying CS job). I have no loans (have been on scholarship since undergrad), and sometimes fantasize about dropping out and going back to school for computer science just to have that flexibility in life (although I'd likely never actually go through with it). I took CS-major level AI and machine learning classes in undergrad, and made A's in them, so I think I could probably be complete the degree. I'm already planning on doing a research year out abroad, but even then, once that year is over, I'll be right back where I started and back on the same track.

Any experiences of people who have also felt this way? Am I as trapped as I think? Are there any good careers post-MD that will allow me some degree of flexibility in terms of where I live? Would love to still practice (am thinking peds or FM at the moment), but am open to exploring such options as consulting, public health, clinical trial coordination overseas, and others. I just don't know where to start.

i would shelf these thought until after graduation. But do a residency in the broadest general residency that you can think of which leaves the door open for anything.

 

[aldol16]

Consulting. You can find programs for MDs at BCG, McKinsey, etc. You'll make less than clinical work (in vast majority of specialties but not all) but you'll have somewhat better lifestyle (though consulting lifestyle can also be tough). Another alternative is take step-out time for an MBA and use that to go into something else. Any sector is available to you - just finish that MD at some point so you have credibility and can use it later on as a credential if you need it.