MD & DO Feeling very incompetent on rotations

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
D

deleted1139416

Hello everyone - just started 3rd year like 2 weeks ago and I feel like I’m just gonna be a terrible doctor. Now, some of my incompetence was probably due to me not knowing how to navigate the EMR but at this point I think that my attending probably just thinks I’m a total doofus. Didn’t realize how hard it would be just to get basic information and history from a patient or their family. Today I called a patient’s family member asking for some information and the family member was so talkative that I couldn’t ask some basic questions cause I ran out of time and ended up missing critical parts of the case. Don’t know what to do :(

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Care
Reactions: 1 user
Don't take this the wrong way, but your feelings of incompetence as a newly minted 3rd yr are completely normal. The reason, well... you pretty much are incompetent clinically unless you had a past career in clinical medicine. This is normal. 3rd yr is basically learning how to do a H&P, present a patient, learn the EMR, and how a hospital service works. I can remember marveling at how it was I could know so little after 4 yrs of college and 2 years of medical school on my first rotation. But right now, there is not much you can do, so ask questions, there are techniques on how to manage a chatty patient, etc., so just absorb as much as you can. Next year when you are teaching 3rd yrs as a 4th yr, you will realize how far you have come. Good luck and best wishes!
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 14 users
Don't take this the wrong way, but your feelings of incompetence as a newly minted 3rd yr are completely normal. The reason, well... you pretty much are incompetent clinically unless you had a past career in clinical medicine. This is normal. 3rd yr is basically learning how to do a H&P, present a patient, learn the EMR, and how a hospital service works. I can remember marveling at how it was I could know so little after 4 yrs of college and 2 years of medical school on my first rotation. But right now, there is not much you can do, so ask questions, there are techniques on how to manage a chatty patient, etc., so just absorb as much as you can. Next year when you are teaching 3rd yrs as a 4th yr, you will realize how far you have come. Good luck and best wishes!

Thank you! I really appreciate it. Do you have any advice on how not to look like a compete idiot in front of your attending? Today a patient clearly told me she had a problem on her left knee and when we did rounds she said it was her right knee and my attending looked at me like “WTF is wrong with you??”.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Thank you! I really appreciate it. Do you have any advice on how not to look like a compete idiot in front of your attending? Today a patient clearly told me she had a problem on her left knee and when we did rounds she said it was her right knee and my attending looked at me like “WTF is wrong with you??”.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 4 users
Thank you! I really appreciate it. Do you have any advice on how not to look like a compete idiot in front of your attending? Today a patient clearly told me she had a problem on her left knee and when we did rounds she said it was her right knee and my attending looked at me like “WTF is wrong with you??”.
That just happens, if you got a different answer there’s nothing you can really do. I’ve had that happen a few times. It’s up to the attending to be understanding that sometimes the patient tells you one thing and then them something totally different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Thank you! I really appreciate it. Do you have any advice on how not to look like a compete idiot in front of your attending? Today a patient clearly told me she had a problem on her left knee and when we did rounds she said it was her right knee and my attending looked at me like “WTF is wrong with you??”.
That has happened to EVERYBODY!. Doesn't make it better, but we all have had that happen. Medicine is not for the faint hearted. You will make mistakes. People who train 3rd yrs know this. Keep those mistakes in the past, learn from them, and don't make the same mistake twice. You'll be fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
There’s a support group for what you’re going through: it’s called “everyone” and we meet at the bar.

Seriously though, you feel incompetent because you are and it’s going to take awhile to get to the other side. You’ll make some massive strides this year, and more strides through intern year and through your residency training. I was probably a PGY4 before I truly began to feel like I had a solid grasp on things and even then I got humbled a few more times. Continues to happen even as an attending.

This job is challenging and you’re never going to be finished learning. Reminds me of a story about a world famous cellist who was practicing at 92 years old when someone asked him why he was doing it, he said “because I think I’m getting better.” Lot of parallels for medicine.

Key tips for doing well on rotations:

1) presentations. These are critical. People know and evaluate you primarily on how you present. Biggest mistake I see students make is doing things out of order. They'll start the HPI, then partway through mention some past medical hx, then maybe a relevant exam finding, then back to the story, then by the way she's allergic to X, so anyhow her pulse was only Y. Get the idea? Make yourself a note card or scribble on a scrap of paper:

HPI
PMH
PSH
FH
SH
ROS
Vitals
Exam
Labs
Imaging
A&P

When you’re presenting, state where you are and don’t put ANYTHING else in that section. Say “the present illness started….” And then when you’re done telling the story, say “past medical history includes….” And so on. No editorializing, just the facts. Know more, say less. Even if you miss key things in your data gathering (you will), a good presentation still makes you look sharp. Don’t say “normal” for anything because nobody believes you know what that is, so give numbers and actual findings - use negative findings if normal and relevant. Believe it or not, this actually makes your presentations shorter, though maybe not short enough for surgery rounds, so take your cues from the residents as to how things are done on a given service.

2) patients want a doctor not a friend. Took me awhile to get this. But don’t be afraid to tell someone you need them to refocus on the line of questions at hand. If they go on a tangent just interrupt and say I’m sorry but can we circle back and focus on XYZ for a moment. There are times where it’s better to listen and let them talk but those times are rare despite what they told you back in M1.

3) don't worry about the different stories - we all know it happens to everyone. They'll tell the students they don't drink, smoke, or do any drugs, and then when the attending goes in they've got a bong in one hand while shooting a line of coke off the exam table. Even as an attending patients will tell me different stories than what they told their PCP. If I had a nickel for every "I see Dr. Jones sent you over here for some sinus trouble..." that gets met with "no doc, my sinuses are fine. I'm really concerned about my hearing." So yeah patients switch stuff up all the time. Just do your best and the law of averages will shake out and you'll be right most of the time.

4) Stay in the circle. Can't stress this enough. Students tend to blend into the paint, so make sure you're part of the group rather than standing outside of it off to the side. Don't shoulder check the intern to do it, but position yourself strategically so you're there. If anyone senior to you is talking, your pencil/pen should be moving. Take notes on the plans just like you see the interns doing. There's a lot to be said for simply looking the part, and the student who is paying attention, making notes, and standing in the circle looks a lot more intelligent and involved than the one standing a few feet away seemingly uninvolved. This also starts getting you accustomed to the work flow of a service and allows you to start being helpful. Rather than "is there anything else I can help you with," you can say "I see that XYZ need to be done, would you mind if I got started on X?"

But overall, you're a brand new third year. This is just the beginning. It's a long process but the process works well. Even the best students know nothing in the beginning; what separates them from the average ones is that the best students keep improving.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 11 users
Thank you! I really appreciate it. Do you have any advice on how not to look like a compete idiot in front of your attending? Today a patient clearly told me she had a problem on her left knee and when we did rounds she said it was her right knee and my attending looked at me like “WTF is wrong with you??”.

Happens to everyone at some point.

Patients lie, get confused, troll the med students/residents, etc...

A tailored H&P can help. Asking questions that confirm laterally, doing a targeted physical exam, etc... But if you've done a full gait assessment and range of motion on the left knee and the patient hasn't told you anything otherwise.... then tells the attending it's the right knee.. there's not much you can do there.

As operaman mentioned, you'll even get wrong histories from fellow attendings. Happens to radiology (my specialty) all the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Some solid advice in these responses. I'll just add:

1) Very much agree with the templated history taking. You will obviously deviate from your template as needed to take a focused history, but this is a skill to develop. But keep in mind you are interviewing the patient, not making small talk with them. Being open-ended is nice, but you need to focus on getting the info you want, not whatever minutiae the patient thinks are relevant.
Today I called a patient’s family member asking for some information and the family member was so talkative that I couldn’t ask some basic questions cause I ran out of time and ended up missing critical parts of the case.
Interrupt them. It might seem rude, but you are allowed to be a little direct if it benefits their loved one's care. They won't mind.

2) Focus on knowing 1-2 patients really well, then expand from that; don't try to learn half the story for the entire list.

3) It's OK to feel incompetent, because you are incompetent. You're a med student, you know nothing. Same is true for interns. That's OK, the biggest danger in medicine is overconfidence in trainees; that's how people get themselves in heaps of trouble. Understand your limitations and work on them each day.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 5 users
Solid advice above. 3rd year students are incompetent and if your peers think they're not they're either lying to you or lying to themselves. I worry more about the students who overestimate their competence and knowledge.

The goal is to get better each day and really focus on the basic skills. Some days will be harder than others, it's not always a linear rate of progression. The beginning of each clerkship can be especially rough as you're basically starting over again every 4-8 weeks. That was one of my least favorite parts of medical school.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 1 users
Today a patient clearly told me she had a problem on her left knee and when we did rounds she said it was her right knee and my attending looked at me like “WTF is wrong with you??”.

Parks And Recreation GIF by PeacockTV
 
Hey guys! I went into the hospital this morning super early and carefully looked at my patient’s chart, did a super thorough physical exam, and knocked it out of the park!!
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 5 users
Hello everyone - just started 3rd year like 2 weeks ago and I feel like I’m just gonna be a terrible doctor. Now, some of my incompetence was probably due to me not knowing how to navigate the EMR but at this point I think that my attending probably just thinks I’m a total doofus. Didn’t realize how hard it would be just to get basic information and history from a patient or their family. Today I called a patient’s family member asking for some information and the family member was so talkative that I couldn’t ask some basic questions cause I ran out of time and ended up missing critical parts of the case. Don’t know what to do :(
It’s part of the learning process. It’s part science yes but also art and a little alchemisty. Don’t let one hurdle set you back. Developing a little game wouldn’t hurt either. Remember too that not everyone going to love you so always do what’s right so you can always look yourself in the mirror.
 
Top