Fellowships...Does class rank matter?

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I was talking to a friend of mine who is in his intern year of a med/peds program, and he told me that fellowship programs look heavily at class rank and Step 1 score. Is this true? I would hope that if I wouldn't be denied a cardiology fellowship becuase of my M1 anatomy grade.

 

[ucladukes]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is in his intern year of a med/peds program, and he told me that fellowship programs look heavily at class rank and Step 1 score. Is this true? I would hope that if I wouldn't be denied a cardiology fellowship becuase of my M1 anatomy grade.

I'm not sure where your intern gets his/her information from but it sounds suspect. Perhaps it is specific to med-peds fellowships of which there are a few. With regard to medicine, however, I have talked to many fellows and read just about every thread on SDN on this matter and there are a few things that are universally mentioned as the make or break issue of a fellowship application. (in no particular order as their importance varies from places to place i'd bet)

1) Who writes your letters (must be names they recongnize) - this may be part of the reason why going to larger academic institutions is considered advantagous. The academic world is small, people know or heard of each other, and letters and phone calls on your behalf from known people can make the difference between a interview and a rejection letter.

2) Research - i'm trying to go into Cardiology, and I heard that an application without research is as good as used toilet paper. You don't need to publish in NEJM, but you need to demonstrate intellectual curiousity and interest (even if feigned) in research. Also considering that one year of a Cardio fellowship is research, they don't want you to sit around with a thumb up you a#! that whole year.

3) Where you come from - on this matter, they are more likely to take from big names where the strength of the training is not debatable. They are more likely to take from places that they have had success with in the past. Like it or not, a resident from UCSF, JHU, etc. with a single case-report is more likely to get interviewed than a genuinely published author from Waco Community Hospital. (on this point, realize there are not enough Cardio bound graduates from these top programs to fill the roughly 700 Cardio fellowship spots in the country, so don't get intimidated)

Considering these points, these are likely the reasons that being at an academic center is integral to situating yourself ideally for the fellowship match.

What I have specifically heard over and over again is this: Med School record and USMLE scores mean CLOSE TO NOTHING. Sure a guy who was AOA and Honored everything might have an easier time, but that is probably more likely because that type of person is also more likely to bust theit ass and get published, kiss the right butt and take care of their business.

Disclaimer: Take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I am an MSIV who based this all on lengthy discussions with fellows (who may have a tendency to inflate the difficulty of their accomplishements) and attendings (who may have applied for fellowship in the 70s and 80s)

I would suggest talking to fellows, attendings, and fellowship PDs in addition to interns.

 

[ucladukes]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is in his intern year of a med/peds program, and he told me that fellowship programs look heavily at class rank and Step 1 score. Is this true? I would hope that if I wouldn't be denied a cardiology fellowship becuase of my M1 anatomy grade.

By the way, I just realized that you are an M2.

In that case ignore what I said, study like crazy for step I, do some research if you can and realize, that while none of this is necessary, your life will be a lot easier come application time if you go the extra mile.
Good luck

 

[souljah1]

I would basically second what was said above. I think the two most important factors for securing a fellowship are: 1. your letter writers 2. the strength and reputation of your residency program. I think that if you have these two in your corner the process is much easier.

I don't think that where you went to medical school and how you did in medical school are pointless, otherwise they wouldn't ask about that information in the application, but I do think that they matter significantly less than the 2 things I mentioned above.

Research is incredibly important in the competitive specialties i.e. GI and Cards. However, I would argue that the research does not necessarily have to be in those areas. At big academic programs, It is more important to show a commitment to academic medicine and a career as a physician. investigator. In that case, taking time off in medical school to do research i.e. howard hughes fellowhsip, etc can be helpful. I agree that Step 1 becomes essentially useless as soon as you become an intern. In many ways, I'd say it is useless if you are applying to IM, but depends on what school you are coming from.

My mentor is a GI professor and most of what I said is based on conversations that I have had with him and the fellows that I have worked with over the last 2 years. If you can show a personal commitment to academic medicine through teaching or research and get great letters from people well known in the field, should be fine.

I will also say that I am a MS4 so take what I have said with a grain of salt. I would love to hear from some interns or people who have just gone through the process.

 

[novacek88]

There is no formula. I'm learning a lot about this process. I'll give you two examples


Program A is a top 10 IM program that has an affiliated fellowship. If you are trying to secure a fellowship here, they weigh everything because they are forced to since they have so many qualified candidates particularly from within their own program.

Program B is a community program with a lousy national reputation and a great local reputation. The IM program is not competitive at all. This program takes 1-2 people from their IM program each year. These residents who are selected lack competitive grades and board scores but are selected based on their work ethic and "ability to get along with the fellows."

But in general, I have heard that grades and board scores mean very little if anything at all but the most competitve programs

 

[quidnunc]

Since the message that I'm hearing about securing a top fellowship is based mostly on where you received your IM residency, who wrote your LOR, and what kind of research you did, what about your score on step 3 (I know step 2 and 1 are pretty much far behind at this point)?

How much weight, if any, is placed on step 3 for fellowship placement?
I've heard very little. Does anyone wish to comment?

Thanks.