walrus

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Hey guys. I was just involved in a heated discussion with a friend who swears that, in general, female applicants get special consideration in the application process.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? He also said that there are some schools where they bend over backwards to get female applicants, but he couldn't name any of them off hand.

Is this for real? I thought there were enough female applicants nowadays so there isn't a problem recruiting them. Am I grossly mistaken? Are there schools that lust after female applicants?
 

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Originally posted by walrus
Hey guys. I was just involved in a heated discussion with a friend who swears that, in general, female applicants get special consideration in the application process.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? He also said that there are some schools where they bend over backwards to get female applicants, but he couldn't name any of them off hand.
I'd imagine some schools probably do. But I think in terms of the med school population as a whole, aren't there more women now than men?

Is this for real? I thought there were enough female applicants nowadays so there isn't a problem recruiting them. Am I grossly mistaken? Are there schools that lust after female applicants?
I'd imagine that lots of male med students probably lust after female applicants ;)

-RA
 
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buglady

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I've heard Drexel/MCP (or whatever their name of the week is) gives preference to females. I thought I heard that it's historically known as the first all female medical college or it was one of the first medical school's to allow female student.....I'm not sure about other schools, however?!
 

FutureM.D.

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Preference huh? Sounds good to me......;)
 

gower

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Not so long ago, 30 or so years, there was outright discrimination against women. Women's Medical College (absorbed into Hahnmann, now combined under the Drexel name) accepted women only. There were barriers against other groups, the first to fall was anti-semitism, then women and more recently against Native-Americans, Blacks, and Hispanics.

The applicant pool for women quickly rose. Women often had and have competitive or higher GPAs than men and, performed just as well on the MCAT; age for age, women tend to mature psychologically earlier than men. At some medical schools, women are more than half the class. Today, many Admissions deans are women, there are women faculty interviewing and serving on admissions committees, so any sexual bias factors can work either way. It always pays to know some history before jumping to what seem obvious but incorrect conclusions. (And you will have to recognize that when attempting diagnoses).

Face it guys, believing in the slinkiness factor is just a salve to your own hurt feelings about what should be the obvious superiority of men.
 

monster2

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As it has been said out of the mouths of philosophers, noone can ever understand a woman. How can there be a lot of women applicants when a woman's life in medical school (and medicine in general) is almost always bound to be miserable? Give or take, 22 years is probably the average age of applicants and upon graduation, we have a a female doctor-to-be about 26. Now given the time and rigors of residency, a well established female physician would be in her thirties.

Now it's common notion that the majority of women love to have children whether or not there be men in their lives (this is America after all). It is sound to say that with all that medical training, it will be difficult for women to have a family. Furthermore, should a woman be confident enough to have a child, there's the issue of pregnancy affecting her availability to practice medicine. Additionally, relationships are hard to come by for a woman in medicine, let's face it, the average man wouldn't want a "smarter/more aggressive" woman (I don't want to here all that baloney about some of you guys being mature enough to date smarter women, you know as well as I that no man would ever want to be under-the-skirt, or have the woman wear the pants in the family), and medicine tailors the initiates to be aggressively smart.

That said, even if there was such a preference, it all comes to nothing, as I do believe that most women find it hard to fit in the medical world. Just scoot over to the Lounge and be amazed at the number of female medical students having problems with their relationships.
 

gower

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A classic example of the old attitude. I am sure your (lower case) queen, if or when you have one, will be perfectly happy to be ruled by her (upper case) King and Lord and Master. There are some women like that.

The age business is another old canard. There are 50 year olds in medical school today. In the good old days, 26 was about the upper age limit. Maturity and experience, not just academic skill, are important qualities in the making of a physician.

But then, differences of opinion are what makes a horse race.

I will say no more.
 

monster2

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Originally posted by gower
A classic example of the old attitude. I am sure your (lower case) queen, if or when you have one, will be perfectly happy to be ruled by her (upper case) King and Lord and Master. There are some women like that.

The age business is another old canard. There are 50 year olds in medical school today. In the good old days, 26 was about the upper age limit. Maturity and experience, not just academic skill, are important qualities in the making of a physician.

But then, differences of opinion are what makes a horse race.

I will say no more.
Say no more, because you are too green about the realities of life. No male in his right mind would want to be slave to the skirt. It's been shown that men tend to avoid intelligent and aggressive women with regards to long-term commitment.

I stated age because to a woman who desires children, age is VERY important. Medical school and training will not give them much to work with in fulfilling that dream.
 

racergirl

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Originally posted by monster2
Say no more, because you are too green about the realities of life.
Gower's GREEN?! You just proved you know nothing. Get bent, then go grow up--see you in 20 years.
 

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I think it's a great thing that so many fields have opened up to women. I know people as recently as 20 years ago who were still discouraged from medicine. My own grandmother wanted to be a physician and was a chemistry teacher instead. And my small town GP was a woman, only one in her class at Yale in the 1950's. She was an incredibly cool lady!

I for one am really glad for the changes we have all of us (men and women) brought to the fields of research and medicine and I often wonder what my grandmother would think of all this. I bet she'd be thrilled!
 

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I have news for you pal, as an F/A -18 pilot, I can tell you men like smart aggressive women. You need to judge people by their merits. Maybe you're just afraid of smart agressive people in general. By the way men who are afraid of smart agressive women have been shown to have psychological problems big time.
 

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We're just finding out about monster's insecurities...doesn't mean that they apply to anyone else.
 
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Gower, it's nice to see you on the board again! Missed you!

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Wow--blazing insecurity going on in this thread.

Back to the original post....I think some med schools may give preference to women because they have difficulties getting women to attend. For example I know MCW accepts 50/50 men and women, yet the final class make-up tends to be 65/35 men to women...MCW (or whatever school) may try to compensate for this by accepting more women originally in hopes that the final class composition will be even? Analogous to recruitment of URMs at many schools. Just a theory--I have no knowledge of gender preferences anywhere.

Most schools don't have to worry about gender preferences, especially since there are more female applicants nowadays. Keep in mind that every med school has a "type" or two of students they may give extra preference to, be it URMs, women, non-trad applicants, athletes, high MCATs, non-science majors, etc.---each school has a different void to fill in comparison to others.
 

Smitty3L

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I know that the typical class of the state medical school I'm hoping to attend is comprised of 35-40% women. monster2 does have some valid points. Being a female I have considered the timing of going to medical school coinciding with having a family. This means I will most likely have to deal with a pregnancy as I am going through med school, because I don't want to wait until I am 27 to start a family. I would think that this would be a concern to males as well, the only difference being the pregnancy. The average age of med students is also the time when most people are starting families, and both are time consuming endeavors.
 

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Originally posted by Smitty3L
I know that the typical class of the state medical school I'm hoping to attend is comprised of 35-40% women. monster2 does have some valid points. Being a female I have considered the timing of going to medical school coinciding with having a family. This means I will most likely have to deal with a pregnancy as I am going through med school, because I don't want to wait until I am 27 to start a family. I would think that this would be a concern to males as well, the only difference being the pregnancy. The average age of med students is also the time when most people are starting families, and both are time consuming endeavors.
Are you referring to OU or OSUCOM?
 

ocean11

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Monster2... I thought you were smarter than that.... how can you make generalizations from 'the lounge'? I know so many men who are having 'relationship' problems... just as I know women?!? what makes you think more women do?!?!?

I know alot of women who are very stable, in great relationships, in their late 20's doing residencies, who are great people. They will make excellent physicians and their bf's husbands are NOT inferior, they are EQUAL.

With all that said, I have a question for you... I've read some of the responses to your messages and you seem to like 'inflaming' people... why? what has happened/is happening in your life to make you 'lash out' at others..... You might be a good person, but you have to let the positive facet of your personality show. You have to be supportive and kind otherwise you will get negative attention.... say something nice GO ON MONSTER2 I DARE YOU! I DARE YOU TO SAY SOMETHING POSITIVE
 

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Dr Mom,

It's true we are finding out about monster's inseurities, but he doesn't need to generalize about all men feeling threatened by smart and aggressive women. That gives men a bad rap.
And studies have shown that many men and women who have difficulites with others who are smart or "agressive" do have issues with envy and/or insecurities.
Being a pilot, I'm tired of the quibling about men and women. I realize how much we need to work together. More concentration on how we're more alike than how we are differnt would go much futher in understanding each other. This is dirrected to monster not the OP.
 

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again, dont provoke the troll
 

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Originally posted by buglady
I've heard Drexel/MCP (or whatever their name of the week is) gives preference to females. I thought I heard that it's historically known as the first all female medical college or it was one of the first medical school's to allow female student.....I'm not sure about other schools, however?!
If I am not mistaken, JHU was the first med school in this country and also first to recruit a woman. I forgot the lady's name, but she's quite a famous one! Started with M....
 

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With all of these differences of opinion, I think we should all agree that it is only fair to accept the same percentage of applicants in various groups based on the amount of applicants from that group. Wait, that didn't make sense. What I mean is this: if 100 males apply to med school and 100 women apply also, then it is only fair to accept 50% males, 50% females. But, if 100 males apply and only 25 females apply, it is not just to still accept 50/50 male/female. Schools should set their acceptance quotas based on the amount of applicants that apply from the respective minority pool, not on sheer perecentages.
 
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doctoramc

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i think you missed the crux of monster's point. i think he used the word smarter no smart. Men in general are not very fond of women smarter than them. They do want smart and agressive women in general, but they do not want them any smarter themselves.
 

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Sometimes I do get the feeling here on SDN that if someone has a totally different opinion than most SDN'ers he/she will get flamed period. I find this really disturbing, for what is the good of a forum if someone cannot post their opinion w/o being flamed?
I did not find anything in Monster's post that was blatantly offensive. Jeez people let us lighten up a tad...
 

MD2b06

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Originally posted by doctoramc
i think you missed the crux of monster's point. i think he used the word smarter no smart. Men in general are not very fond of women smarter than them. They do want smart and agressive women in general, but they do not want them any smarter themselves.
I'd have to disagree with this gross generalization. To say that guys are not fond of smart and aggressive women is inaccurate. Intelligence is attractive. Period.

Some guys may turned off at the lack of time and attention that they'd receive from a career driven woman, which would account for their lack of interest. Women in medicine have a tougher balancing act to perform than men. In the real world, you can't be a great wife, mom of the year, and the best physician all at once. Gotta sacrifice something. Some men aren't willing to be sacrificed. It's really not a matter of who's smarter.
 

Smitty3L

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Very well stated MD2bo6. This issue is all ready weighing heavy on my mind and on that of my fiance. It may not be fair but a time consuming profession is harder for mothers than it is for fathers. I have wondered if this issue ever comes up in interviews??
 

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Originally posted by gower

Face it guys, believing in the slinkiness factor is just a salve to your own hurt feelings about what should be the obvious superiority of men.
forgive me if I'm interpreting too much into this statement, but as a "guy" I take offense to this. Is it not still considered wrong to stereotype an entire population (guys in this case))? I always find it sad when one person (or group) ends up insulting another whole group in an attempt to speak up for "justice" and "equality."

Again, forgive me if I've read way too much into this. I've just been burned one time too many by someone in a position of power who thought that working for gender equality entailed outright discrimination against males and people who didnt' share her exact beliefs.
 

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doctoramc

Smart, Smarter I think you missed the point entirely. As a guy in one of the most "traditionally macho" fields,I've had to work with women pilots. I learned to grow and find out about my own insecurities. And it's definately not about being threatened by smarter or whatever. It's your own dammed envy and not wanting to SHARE THE GLORY with someone else. This same argument was used against the blacks during World War 2, we didn't want to share the glory with them either. Well pal, it's a big stage, there is room for everyone.You gotta learn to share the glory. I don't like people smarter than I am, men, women, blacks, elderly's or kids, just cause I want to be the best of the best. But if someone else gets the spotlight then they beat me and I will share the glory.
 

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Originally posted by Tweetie_bird
If I am not mistaken, JHU was the first med school in this country and also first to recruit a woman. I forgot the lady's name, but she's quite a famous one! Started with M....
UPenn was the first med school in the country (1765). http://www.med.upenn.edu/history.html

Drexel/MCP was originally an all-womens medical school, so they have the distinction to be the first medical college to accept women. I think they started accepting women in 1850.
http://www.drexel.edu/med/campus/history.htm


However, Hopkins was the first non-womens medical school to accept women and had 3 in their first class (1893).http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/history.html#women
 

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Men might not want women who are smarter than them, but the same argument can be made that some women don't want men who are smarter than them either?!?

Honestly, the world is changing people..... I agree that some have a preference for smarter women and some don't but same goes for women.... some prefer smarter guys and some well.. don't care as much.... the POINT IS that it dosn't matter what you prefer YOU CAN"T GENERALIZE!

Generalizations lead to sexism and racism, each person is their own individual the end.....

no one wants to be lumped into a catagory... such as 'women' or 'blacks' or 'asians' we're all individuals and we're all equal

lets put an end to this bullS$*t
 

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Originally posted by ocean11
Men might not want women who are smarter than them, but the same argument can be made that some women don't want men who are smarter than them either?!?

Honestly, the world is changing people..... I agree that some have a preference for smarter women and some don't but same goes for women.... some prefer smarter guys and some well.. don't care as much.... the POINT IS that it dosn't matter what you prefer YOU CAN"T GENERALIZE!

Generalizations lead to sexism and racism, each person is their own individual the end.....

no one wants to be lumped into a catagory... such as 'women' or 'blacks' or 'asians' we're all individuals and we're all equal

lets put an end to this bullS$*t
Amen!!! :clap:
 

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Originally posted by monster2
let's face it, the average man wouldn't want a "smarter/more aggressive" woman (I don't want to here all that baloney about some of you guys being mature enough to date smarter women, you know as well as I that no man would ever want to be under-the-skirt, or have the woman wear the pants in the family)...

hey monster2,
you told us on another thread that you're currently dating a girl. show the above to her, let her know you wrote it, and then let us know what she thinks.

i'm just innocently curious.
 
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