Ferguson ruling

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Prosecutor McCulloch has charged a cop before for with felony assault for striking a St. Louis MetroLink passenger on the hand. Guess he is fair guy after all, except the officer was black, and from Ferguson. This case was probably real easy for him to file charges. He didnt go to the grand jury to determine if charges should be filed, but did it himself as usual. He did not try to clear this cop of any wrong doing as he did with white cop, Wilson.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/07/25/st-louis-county-police-officer-charged/

This is so tragically racist that it is becoming a comedy.
 
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Visible Ghost said:
Prosecutor McCulloch has charged a cop before for with felony assault for striking a St. Louis MetroLink passenger on the hand. Guess he is fair guy after all, except the officer was black, and from Ferguson. This case was probably real easy for him to file charges. He didnt go to the grand jury to determine if charges should be filed, but did it himself as usual. He did not try to clear this cop of any wrong doing as he did with white cop, Wilson.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/07/25/st-louis-county-police-officer-charged/

This is so tragically racist that it is becoming a comedy.
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Oh great, now we're going to start a smear campaign. Did the suspect in the linked story go for the officer's gun? Did he punch the cop in the face? Did he rob a convenience store and flee minutes prior?

Grand jury testimony is available to the general public. Please tell me how every little, minute detail was not covered or questioned and how the grand jury dropped the ball.

I love how the goal posts keep being moved during this.

Witnesses were saying that he was shot in the back. Whoops, the autopsy shows that bullets came from the front. Goal posts moved back.

Well, he was actually facing the police officer and had his hands in the air. Actually, forensic experts have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that he was moving towards the officer in his final moments. Goal posts moved back.

Well, he shot him in the head which means that his head was bowed. No actually, he was bum rushing the police officer and analysis and witnesses who haven't already had their testimony flounder in the face of scientific, forensic evidence corroborate that. Goal posts moved back.

Now, we're trying to dissect pictures of injuries. "Well, he didn't hit him that hard", launching a smear campaign against the lawyers, and all sorts of dirty crud.

Give it up guys. People wanted a predetermined outcome and there remains no shred of credible evidence that Brown was murdered in cold blood. Be thankful that we live in a country where you can continue to question the establishment and tell us that water isn't wet.
 
FFP said:
This is world-class dumb. I lean pretty much center-right on most issues, I hate leftism and PC. I just don't believe the police officer.
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Okay, what about credible witnesses whose testimony is backed by forensic analysis- do you believe them?
 
FFP said:
I am just not a fan of police brutality either and, as a foreigner, I think we give way too much credit to the police in this country. The (Missouri) law is definitely on officer Wilson's side, as the aberrant Supreme Court precedent which I quoted pointed it out. And the law, as it is in many states, is not right (look it up for yourselves); it protects the police incredibly more than the regular citizen who actually was shot/killed.
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Majorly disagree. The officer deserves the protection and the benefit of the doubt. Police officers place their lives in danger every day to protect us. When somebody is breaking the law and disobeys a police officer, there needs to be overwhelming evidence to suggest the officer overstepped their bounds to go after them IMHO. The fact that the physical evidence 100% supported the officer and witnesses suggesting he was appropriate is enough for me. The witnesses that claimed he never went in the car or he got shot running away or he had his hands in the air to surrender have all been proven incorrect (or simply liars with an agenda) by the evidence.

Racial tensions are a tough issue, but cops deserve respect.
 
FFP said:
No. The premise of my argument is that there are multiple ways of enforcing the law, and police should have a duty to choose the one that will cause the least harm to the suspect, not the one that's most macho. Officer Wilson should have never gone alone against two youngsters, one of them being 6'4" and 290 lbs, in the first place.

I still believe that this started as an altercation about jaywalking, and escalated from there, hence my logic. And I still believe that every single police shooting should be prosecuted by independent and fair prosecutors (which was not the case here, given the prosecutor's incredible personal history). I have no qualm with the grand jury.

Edit: I meant police killing, not just shooting.
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Why is everyone using references describing Mr. Brown as a kid, youngster, teenager etc? He was a 300lb man who was 18 years old which happens to be the legal age of adulthood.
 
Mman said:
Majorly disagree. The officer deserves the protection and the benefit of the doubt. Police officers place their lives in danger every day to protect us. When somebody is breaking the law and disobeys a police officer, there needs to be overwhelming evidence to suggest the officer overstepped their bounds to go after them IMHO. The fact that the physical evidence 100% supported the officer and witnesses suggesting he was appropriate is enough for me. The witnesses that claimed he never went in the car or he got shot running away or he had his hands in the air to surrender have all been proven incorrect (or simply liars with an agenda) by the evidence.

Racial tensions are a tough issue, but cops deserve respect.
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Good post. In the grand jury testimony, the physical and forensic evidence butted heads with people who said the officer shot him running away, shot him with his arms up, shot him on his knees, etc. Those in favor of indicting Officer Wilson read over the hundreds of pages of testimony and tell me where the evidence lays to indict him. And no, "because police can abuse their power" or "cops historically target minorities" isn't specific to this case and is irrelevant in the grand scheme of obtaining truth and justice in this instance. Let's have some integrity. Here is a good excerpt from one witness:

"Another man, describing himself as a friend of Brown's, told a federal investigator that he heard the first gunshot, looked out his window and saw an officer with a gun drawn and Brown "on his knees with his hands in the air." He added: "I seen him shoot him in the head."

But when later pressed by the investigator, the friend said he had not seen the actual shooting because he was walking down the stairs at the time and instead had heard details from someone in the apartment complex.

"What you are saying you saw isn't forensically possible based on the evidence," the investigator told the friend.

Shortly after that, the friend asked if he could leave.

"I ain't feeling comfortable," he said.
 
anbuitachi said:
I wish this guy replaces al sharpton
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Internal local of control VS External local of control
Right wing VS Left wing
Individualism VS Collectivism
Success VS Failure.

The best of humanity is always the former. I wish more people would think like that guy in the video rather than Al.
 
yappy said:
Internal local of control VS External local of control
Right wing VS Left wing
Individualism VS Collectivism
Success VS Failure.

The best of humanity is always the former. I wish more people would think like that guy in the video rather than Al.
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"There are some bad people on the right"
 
I hate cops. just had a few bad experiences with a couple bullies from high school turned power trippers.
that being said, imho anyone who thinks Michael brown was an innocent victim has their heads in the sand. he robs a store. tussled with a cop at the car door. no way a cop starts shooting from inside his car like that without provocation. brown flees after shots. Wilson gets out. has to pursue because he's a police officer. shoots brown.
maybe he had his hands up, maybe he was charging. tougher to make decision on that without actually seeing evidence firsthand.
either way, assaulting a PO like that...
and since witness statements and evidence back up Wilson, it's an easy decision.
 
Michael Brown was no Crispus Attucks. A point that seems to be missed on many.

As I said before, we have more of culture problem in this country than a race one. And until we solve that, these types of incidents will continue.

Cory Booker's 1992 rant about Rodney King, re-tweeted by the man himself perhaps to stay ahead of any potential controversy:

https://twitter.com/corybooker/status/537606792348704768

Mr. Booker has matured since then and also, unlike a lot of those involved here, has apparently started to figure out how the world really works.
 
Gas you down said:
I hate cops. just had a few bad experiences with a couple bullies from high school turned power trippers.
that being said, imho anyone who thinks Michael brown was an innocent victim has their heads in the sand. he robs a store. tussled with a cop at the car door. no way a cop starts shooting from inside his car like that without provocation. brown flees after shots. Wilson gets out. has to pursue because he's a police officer. shoots brown.
maybe he had his hands up, maybe he was charging. tougher to make decision on that without actually seeing evidence firsthand.
either way, assaulting a PO like that...
and since witness statements and evidence back up Wilson, it's an easy decision.
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Why any mature professional adult "hates cops" is beyond me. Certain individual cops who do bad things? Sure - I get it. ALL cops? I don't think so.
 
jwk said:
Why any mature professional adult "hates cops" is beyond me. Certain individual cops who do bad things? Sure - I get it. ALL cops? I don't think so.
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"Hates" might not be the right word. However, my own experiences do influence my view of them. As a 4th year med student, had a friend visiting from out of town. I was the DD and he had only had a few (early in the night). We walked into an establishment and he was physically thrown out (later learned d/t mistaken identity). He stood in the parking lot and mouthed a few (justified?) words. Off duty cops hanging there advised him to leave or be arrested. He then (erroneously) said "fine, arrest me then..." Was cuffed and placed in the back of the car. As I sat on a curb, was told that I could get him in the morning. The next day I arrived to find him in a c-collar, staples across his head, caked in dried blood, shirtless and holding his ripped button up shirt. Learned that OTW to station, he was mouthing off at cops and must have struck a nerve (he may come across as arrogant: VERY well educated, well dressed, and sharp looking guy by any measure). Said they slammed on the brakes so that his face hit window and radioed that they needed to pull aside to restrain him further. Layed him on his stomach and stood on cuffs behind his back while striking him in head/face with mag-lights. He bluffed that he couldn't move and was taken to the hospital where his injuries were treated/documented. He never pressed charges and (conveniently) the dept didn't investigate until his statute had elapsed, after which 3 officers were convicted of felonies and discharged.
Second case, watching a family member's change in attitude/behavior as an officer. Became an authoritarian and strict disciplinarian. No longer seems to have "lighter moments". Hard to pinpoint, but definitely has gone to his/her head.
Does absolute power absolutely corrupt? Just look at surgeons!
 
jwk said:
Why any mature professional adult "hates cops" is beyond me. Certain individual cops who do bad things? Sure - I get it. ALL cops? I don't think so.
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I dont "hate" all cops, but I have never been a fan of the police. Ive also never "needed" them which may influence my view but I have had more than my fair share of harassment.

Grew up in a poor neighborhood and the police harassed everyone. People were scared to drive as everyone was stopped for erroneous reasons and had their car searched. Of course the whole time you were spoken to like a criminal. The police would plant drugs or weapons on people, they would push people around, treat them as subhuman. The police were untouchable. Im sure there are cities/towns like this all across the country.

Ive lived in 4 different cities and ironically NYC was the only city I wasnt harassed in. But Ive been slammed to the ground, accused of robbing stores, accused of robbing banks, accused of driving under the influence, accused of driving a stolen vehicle, thrown against a wall and searched because he "smelled weed." Ive never done any kind of drug and Ive had 3 drinks in my entire life and Im at the tail end of my 20s. I dont think these experiences sound out of the ordinary to most minorities and obviously this can lead to a tipping point.

When cops have only been the source of harassment, oppression, dishonesty and treachery, especially while developing ones view of the world as a child, it becomes clearer to fathom why such a view by some people exists.

Obviously now that I am older and my world view has changed substantially, I know that most cops are not racist, sexist or homophobic, at least not deliberately.
 
IkeBoy18 said:
I dont "hate" all cops, but I have never been a fan of the police. Ive also never "needed" them which may influence my view but I have had more than my fair share of harassment.

Grew up in a poor neighborhood and the police harassed everyone. People were scared to drive as everyone was stopped for erroneous reasons and had their car searched. Of course the whole time you were spoken to like a criminal. The police would plant drugs or weapons on people, they would push people around, treat them as subhuman. The police were untouchable. Im sure there are cities/towns like this all across the country.

Ive lived in 4 different cities and ironically NYC was the only city I wasnt harassed in. But Ive been slammed to the ground, accused of robbing stores, accused of robbing banks, accused of driving under the influence, accused of driving a stolen vehicle, thrown against a wall and searched because he "smelled weed." Ive never done any kind of drug and Ive had 3 drinks in my entire life and Im at the tail end of my 20s. I dont think these experiences sound out of the ordinary to most minorities and obviously this can lead to a tipping point.

When cops have only been the source of harassment, oppression, dishonesty and treachery, especially while developing ones view of the world as a child, it becomes clearer to fathom why such a view by some people exists.

Obviously now that I am older and my world view has changed substantially, I know that most cops are not racist, sexist or homophobic, at least not deliberately.
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No problem recognizing things for what they are, and that is that there are bad people regardless of what job, ethnicity, religion, or whatever other identifier we want to use.

It's also important not to allow these to skew our objectivity given this notion. The bottom line here is that you are free to not trust cops, but to let that supplant the facts in this case would not be right.

The reality is that there are police who absolutely profile and abuse their privileges. There is also a reality that inasmuch as you think there are towns that exist with crooked police departments, there are far, far more towns that exist where the populace creates a hostile environment for everyone that lives there. Just look at violent crime statistics in inner cities.

Given this, we absolutely need our public servants and can't throw them under the bus without proper cause in order to "beat the establishment".

And I'm going to throw out an opinion you may not like, but if you did grow up in a rough neighborhood (you said poor so pardon if I'm putting words in your mouth), there is no way the cops were the only source of harassment and intimidation.
 
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jwk said:
Why any mature professional adult "hates cops" is beyond me. Certain individual cops who do bad things? Sure - I get it. ALL cops? I don't think so.
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You don't have to be a cop hater to know that you're better off with minimal contact with the police.

Required viewing on YouTube. Everyone should watch it.
 
Of my close lifelong friends more than a few are attorneys. One is fond of saying that "the police officer's only job is to build a case against you."
 
And I'm going to throw out an opinion you may not like said:
The topic was the police. There always could be other forms or "harassment and intimidation" but they are much worse to outsiders than they are to the ingroup. Strangers transiently moving through a rough area are far worse off than people who live within the community. THere can be bullying in any neighborhood, but police officers can affect your life far worse than any neighborhood buyllying, especially the psychological toll it takes on one to constantly feel subhuman.
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I was talking about rough neighborhoods, or put another way, inner city America.

No way the police are a bigger security threat in rough neighborhoods than the other endemic domestic threats. Lots of homicide and violent crime data to back that up. Hell, even in well-to-do neighborhoods, statistics still say that the citizenry and not public servants are bigger security threats.
 
Ignatius J said:
I was talking about rough neighborhoods, or put another way, inner city America.

No way the police are a bigger security threat in rough neighborhoods than the other endemic domestic threats. Lots of homicide and violent crime data to back that up. Hell, even in well-to-do neighborhoods, statistics still say that the citizenry and not public servants are bigger security threats.
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Are we really comparing domestic criminals with persons sworn to uphold the law and protect the citizens?
 
Lets be honest here, if your not white, chances are your experiences and attitudes towards the police will be a little different. Being held at gun point when you are 10 will do that to you.
 
IkeBoy18 said:
Are we really comparing domestic criminals with persons sworn to uphold the law and protect the citizens?
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In an apples to apples comparison, no. In a comparison of security threat, I would put a cop pretty far down the list.
 
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Business as usual:
  1. A Staten Island grand jury has decided not to indict NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo for the July 17 death of Eric Garner, according to the New York Post.
  2. Garner died after Pantaleo put him in a chokehold as multiple NYPD officers tried to detain him for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes. A medical examiner ruled his death a homicide.
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Eric Garner was a 43-year-old, 6-foot, 3-inch, 350-pound father of six who was killed in Staten Island on July 17 after an NYPD officer put him in a chokehold, which is prohibited by NYPD policy.

A medical examiner deemed Garner's death a homicide, according to the Associated Press. Garner was killed by "the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," said medical examiner spokesperson Julie Bolcer.

Police stopped Garner for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes. Garner had been previously arrested for selling untaxed cigarettes in May, police told CNN. He had one pack of untaxed cigarettes when police moved in, according to New York Daily News.

Garner's death was captured on video. One video, reported by New York Daily News, shows multiple police officers pulling Garner to the ground, with one officer grabbing the 43-year-old in a chokehold. Garner can be heard saying, "I can't breathe," numerous times before he died.

Another video, reported by the New York Post, shows that neither cops nor emergency medical respondents gave medical assistance to Garner as he lay unconscious on a sidewalk for at least six minutes.
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Daniel Pantaleo, a white, 29-year-old police officer with eight years on the force put Garner in the chokehold that caused his death.

Pantaleo was previously accused of false arrest and violating police procedures in two lawsuits, according to court records reported by New York Daily News. In one lawsuit, two black plaintiffs each won $15,000 after claiming they'd been falsely arrested in 2012 and forced to publicly strip for a search.

Unnamed sources told New York Daily News that Pantaleo and other officers involved in the arrest have received death threats following Garner's deaths, and they've remained away from their homes as a result.

Pantaleo and Justin Damico, another officer involved in the arrest, were placed on desk duty following Garner's death.

The grand jury only considered charges for Pantaleo, according to the New York Times. Other officers were granted immunity.

Four emergency medical respondents were also placed on unpaid leave pending an investigation into whether they adequately treated Garner when they found him laying on a sidewalk, according to the New York Post. But all four have been or are being reinstated, SILive.com reported.
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http://www.vox.com/2014/12/3/7327745/eric-garner-grand-jury-decision :whistle:
 
IkeBoy18 said:
If I ever get accused of something, I hope the prosecutor assigned to my case puts on a good defense for me in front of the grand jury.
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Difference is if you are personally accused of something, if the prosecutor doesn't find evidence to take you to trial they won't bring it to a grand jury and will just decline to proceed. This prosecutor, because of public outcry, had no option but to take it to a grand jury even if there was no good evidence.
 
FFP said:
No, just a video with the chokehold, which is against police rules.
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I was talking about Ferguson.

I haven't paid one second of attention to the NY case. But I tend to side with juries.
 
Mman said:
I was talking about Ferguson.

I haven't paid one second of attention to the NY case. But I tend to side with juries.
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I was speaking specifically about Eric Garner's case, albeit my comment had a loose association with other similar events.
 
FFP said:
No good evidence, just a video with the chokehold, which is against police rules.
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chokehold outlawed since 1993, coroner ruled Garners death a homicide and the officer in question has had multiple legal issues as on officer, even where the NYPD had to pay out several thousand dollars on 2 occasions, of tax payer money of course.
 
I think we need a law which makes police brutality a federal crime, with a special prosecutor assigned by the DOJ in every case. Otherwise, local hands (including the local US DA) will always wash each other.

I am all for special rights for people who risk their lives in the line of duty. And special obligations, too. And special extra punishments when they betray public trust.

That's all I am going to say.
 
Officer who shot Ohio boy was asked to leave prior job

The Cleveland police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old boy last month showed a "dismal" handgun performance and had emotional issues during his short stint in 2012 with the nearby Independence Police Department, records show.
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"Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl. Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment,"
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Surveillance video of the incident shows Loehmann shot Tamir less than two seconds after arriving to investigate a complaint about a boy carrying what turned out to be an airsoft gun, which shoots non-lethal plastic projectiles. Tamir died at a hospital the next day.
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chocomorsel said:
Nothing to see here. Just another black man killed by cops. Their lives don't matter anyway.
This country seriously has some racial issues.
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I think a lot of people are much more surprised at this case not getting an indictment. The case in Ferguson isn't going anywhere on the federal level, but this one might. There's a big difference between a guy selling illegal cigarettes vs a suspected felon punching a cop.
 
jwk said:
I think a lot of people are much more surprised at this case not getting an indictment. The case in Ferguson isn't going anywhere on the federal level, but this one might. There's a big difference between a guy selling illegal cigarettes vs a suspected felon punching a cop.
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+1
 
IkeBoy18 said:
If I ever get accused of something, I hope the prosecutor assigned to my case puts on a good defense for me in front of the grand jury.
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Just make sure you don't try to grab a cop's gun while he's in his car and try to charge at a cop.
 
IkeBoy18 said:
chokehold outlawed since 1993, coroner ruled Garners death a homicide and the officer in question has had multiple legal issues as on officer, even where the NYPD had to pay out several thousand dollars on 2 occasions, of tax payer money of course.
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It wasn't "outlawed" making it illegal.
 
I find this one much more disturbing than Ferguson. Chokeholds are banned for exactly this reason. The man was 100% defensive on the ground. He was allegedly selling loose cigarettes.

Also, as in Ferguson the accused officer testified before the grand jury. Highly unusual. There is a saying that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich if given a chance. The reason is that a prosecutor traditionally only presents evidence that is favorable to the state's case. In Ferguson and NY it looks like the prosecutors gave the grand jury everything, including evidence that would helpful to the defense. Something that is within their discretion, but very non-traditional. Only experienced prosecutors and criminal defense lawyers analyzing the presentation to the grand jury would be able to tell if they were pulling their punches. It smells bad. Looks like they might have done the legal equivalent of a "show code" in one or both of these cases.
 
I can't get too worked up about Ferguson.

The kid in Cleveland ... mixed feelings. He was waving around a toy gun that looked real, play stupid games win stupid prizes. If he'd been stupidly playing in traffic and got hit by a bus, no one would blame anyone but the kid. But the dispatcher didn't relay the fact that the 911 caller thought it was a toy, and the police pulled up right next to him (why?!?), and he cop shot him immediately. Bad police work, Lou.

The choking death in NY, even if it wasn't "illegal" that kind of force was against police policy for a reason. You break those rules and someone dies, at a minimum I would expect that negligence to result in a charge. Accidental deaths when the officer is following the rules are forgivable in a way that deaths when breaking the rules aren't. This one makes me angry.
 
pgg said:
I can't get too worked up about Ferguson.

The kid in Cleveland ... mixed feelings. He was waving around a toy gun that looked real, play stupid games win stupid prizes. If he'd been stupidly playing in traffic and got hit by a bus, no one would blame anyone but the kid. But the dispatcher didn't relay the fact that the 911 caller thought it was a toy, and the police pulled up right next to him (why?!?), and he cop shot him immediately. Bad police work, Lou.

The choking death in NY, even if it wasn't "illegal" that kind of force was against police policy for a reason. You break those rules and someone dies, at a minimum I would expect that negligence to result in a charge. Accidental deaths when the officer is following the rules are forgivable in a way that deaths when breaking the rules aren't. This one makes me angry.
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I'm not arguing with you as it was unnecessarily agressive to take the NY guy down I agree. But just a point to be made - that wasn't a choke. Most likely he had a severe stressed induced asthma attack or heart attack (I didn't look into this aspect of the case very thoroughly). Also "vascular restraint" (choke that targets the carotids) is likely a safer alternative than other means of forcibly restraining people (striking them in the head, tazers, etc). However, doing it properly does require a LOT of training.

Anyone else here practice brazilian jiu jitsu ? !

Gracies talking about the incident:

 
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cleansocks said:
I'm not arguing with you as it was unnecessarily agressive to take the NY guy down I agree. But just a point to be made - that wasn't a choke. Most likely he had a severe stressed induced asthma attack or heart attack (I didn't look into this aspect of the case very thoroughly). Also "vascular restraint" (choke that targets the carotids) is likely a safer alternative than other means of forcibly restraining people (striking them in the head, tazers, etc). However, doing it properly does require a LOT of training.

Anyone else here practice brazilian jiu jitsu ? !

Gracies talking about the incident:

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The only reason you should ever apply a choke is if you want to kill someone or you're in a match being watched by a ref. Maybe a cop could use a blood choke is if they are applying lethal force & disarmed or something?

The whole incident makes me angry too. The escalation of force seemed abrupt and they didn't give him opportunities to defend himself from unnecessary injury or safely comply when they were all piling on. It looks like he was giving up from the start until he started to fight for his life. Who would be okay being treated like that by police in this situation? I absolutely would not.

At what point is it okay to defend yourself from police or assist someone being killed?
 
I agree that they were too aggressive too early. They made a bad judgement call against an extremely large agigated threatening-looking guy and should've given him a chance to cooperate. Also the intent of the officer may very well have been to restrain the guy with a choke; wrapping one's arm around the neck would be a very unorthidox takedown. So he intentionally tried to use something deemed illegal by the NYPD and should likely be punished for that attempt.

That said, he did it improperly and poorly so it wasn't a choke.

I disagree that a blood choke can only be used to kill someone. If I were in a situation where I needed to restrain someone to that degree (not this case) I would prefer to keep my distance to avoid injury to myself; I'd use a weapon! However, if forced to use hand-to-hand restraint against an assailent, properly trained individuals can perform a blood choke to render a person unconscious within a few seconds and subsequently release it appropriately without causing harm to almost all relatively healthy individuals. It is equivalent to induced syncope. Knowing when to release requires training that I doubt these officers have. A lot of training is also required to achieve a blood choke rather than a tracheal choke, and the latter choke should definitely be categorized as lethal. Thus some law enforcement agencies list chokes generally as lethal force while others list them as intermediate level restraints.

yappy said:
The only reason you should ever apply a choke is if you want to kill someone or you're in a match being watched by a ref. Maybe a cop could use a blood choke is if they are applying lethal force & disarmed or something?

The whole incident makes me angry too. The escalation of force seemed abrupt and they didn't give him opportunities to defend himself from unnecessary injury or safely comply when they were all piling on. It looks like he was giving up from the start until he started to fight for his life. Who would be okay being treated like that by police in this situation? I absolutely would not.

At what point is it okay to defend yourself from police or assist someone being killed?
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FFP said:
I think we need a law which makes police brutality a federal crime, with a special prosecutor assigned by the DOJ in every case. Otherwise, local hands (including the local US DA) will always wash each other.

I am all for special rights for people who risk their lives in the line of duty. And special obligations, too. And special extra punishments when they betray public trust.

That's all I am going to say.
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Police need a way to police themselves, but allowing the public to dictate a punishment would be an unmitigated disaster. What would you do if high profile physician screw ups were the subject of news, riots, and debate and as a result the general public wanted in on inflicting proper punishment?
 
chocomorsel said:
Nothing to see here. Just another black man killed by cops. Their lives don't matter anyway.
This country seriously has some racial issues.
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You have it backwards. If killed by cops, you are extremely valued. If killed by other blacks, like about 90% of black homicide victims, no one cares.
 
Ignatius J said:
You have it backwards. If killed by cops, you are extremely valued. If killed by other blacks, like about 90% of black homicide victims, no one cares.
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Except that 84% of white murder victims are killed by whites and blacks are 27 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a white person. This is ignoring the fact that police officers are sworn to uphold the law and protect citizens.
 
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