Fighting with a professor- WWYD?

[fluorometholone]

So I've started to see my final grades posted. My hardest class this semester (developmental biology) was taught by this professor who has been at the school for something like 35 years and has a scary reputation. I did quite poorly on the two tests, but ok on all the other assignments. My final grade was C. I added up all of my points (which were posted on our Blackboard site), and it all averaged out to roughly a 79%, so I emailed her and asked if I should have been a C+. I attached a spreadsheet with all of our assignments, all of my points earned and the total points and asked her to take a look. Her response: "Your points added up to 63% which is a D without a curve. Based on your exam performance including the final, the C is a true gift meaning that I stretched the curve. Merry Christmas."
What do I do? I really wanted her to write me a rec letter saying that I was good student despite some crummy test grades, but now I just want to fight for the grade I deserve. And if there was any curve, my 79 would be a B- at the very least (which would be a big difference!). She clearly didn't even look at my spreadsheet or give me the time of day.

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[EBT12]

Are you sure you weighted each grade correctly? (Test 1 might be 20% of grade and test 2 might be 30% even though they have the same total points).

I probably wouldn't rely on that professor to write a glowing letter of recommendation.

 

[fluorometholone]

It's a total points class, so each test is just worth whatever it was, point-wise. Part of the problem is that I calculated 909 points possible and she only had 869 points possible. I got 50/50 on all of our 50 point assignments, but even if I took one out, it only changed my grade by <3 points (not 15 points)

 

[DrDrugs2012]

You should first ask to meet the professor in person at her office so you can both go over the math together. If after that discussion, you are still not satisfied with the outcome, you are always free to go to the coursemaster (if it is a different person), to the department head, dean of the college. I am also sure that if the professor is extraordinarily rude and disrespectful, your college has a formal means by which a student can claim a disciplinary grievance as well as an opportunity to seek the assistance of the academic committee responsible for such disputes. Do some investigative work into what your options are at your school.

 

[owlegrad]

It's a total points class, so each test is just worth whatever it was, point-wise. Part of the problem is that I calculated 909 points possible and she only had 869 points possible. I got 50/50 on all of our 50 point assignments, but even if I took one out, it only changed my grade by <3 points (not 15 points)

Fewer points possible means a lower denominator (total earned/total available) which would mean a higher % grade. I suspect your math is wrong and you should be thankful for the C. I would not ask her for an LOR.

 

[PharmacyWarrior]

Regardless of what you get, I would not ask for her LOR. It seems that you have a problem with her so it will be tough for her to write you a great LOR. Try to ask other professors, which you have gotten A's in their classes, for LORs.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Were there any dropped points - like an assignment or a test?

First step, find all of your assignments & the syllabus. Second step, line them up with her spreadsheet and figure out where your math differs. Step three, if it appears to be her mistake, have someone else independently take all the information & confirm. Step four, if confirmed AND you decide you really want to push the issue for a C+ vs a C, schedule an appointment with her and frame it as "I want to understand how the grade was calculated." Step five, if you disagree, stay polite and agree to disagree - then escalate by other methods (department chair, etc).

I agree with Owle - If she thinks she already did you a favor & gave you a C, I wouldn't push it. She could decide to change it to a D, like she thinks your points add up to. Then you'd have to retake. Just let this one go, it won't have that much effect on your GPA.

 

[rxlea]

lol agree with owle. Why fight over something as meaningless as a C versus a C+. Sounds to me like you performed at an average level. C is average isn't it? Suck it up.

 

[universalcynic]

Fighting with a professor- WWYD?

I wouldn't fight with a professor. I have a pretty hard time trying to imagine a realistic situation where that would be justified, and no offense, but I think it's more likely that your professor is in the right here and you are not. So I think you should just let it go.

And certainly do not ask this professor for a lor! The last thing you want is a letter from someone with a negative opinion of you.

 

[fluorometholone]

Well obviously I'm not going to ask for a LOR now. This prof actually did like me for most of the semester; this is our first real issue. And for the record, I've had four people check my math- there's no way I added it up wrong. This is the same professor who calculates extra credit as X/10, so if you don't do it, your average is pulled down (luckily I did it). She didn't understand when everyone tried to explain why this was flawed. I'm not going to say anything because of the possible disaster, but I was mostly upset because 1. she didn't give my email the time of day, and 2. if there was a curve, I'd have a B now. It may seem like a small thing, but I'd like the most accurate representation of my performance on my transcript.

 

[NickW9682]

I'd ask her to explain the grade breakdown, you're paying her salary so who cares if you take an extra 5 min out of her day to give the reasoning behind it. I personally would be pissed if she wouldnt give me an explanation behind the grade, especially if you have figured it to be something else. Make sure you are comparing what you came up with to the syllabus, as the syllabus is essentially a contract. I definitely would not be her doormat if I knew I was correct (regardless if the only difference is a C to a C+).

 

[owlegrad]

I hope everything works out for you moving forward.

If you spent more time asking your professor how the grading worked and less time trying to justify why you are right and she is wrong, I wonder what the result would be? I am also confused why you expected her to go by your spreadsheet - why would she do that? She has her own, you should be asking her to see it, not producing your own for her. I suspect that you may have approached this in a fundamentally flawed way. And I am still confused why you would prefer to be graded out of 909 rather than 869. That alone makes me suspect that you are over-complicating how to calculate a grade.

What is important is to learn from the experience. In the future assume your professor is correct and ask them if they can explain it to you so that you can understand. If you find a mistake during the process they are much more likely to listen if that is how you approach them.

 

[owlegrad]

I'd ask her to explain the grade breakdown, you're paying her salary so who cares if you take an extra 5 min out of her day to give the reasoning behind it. I personally would be pissed if she wouldnt give me an explanation behind the grade, especially if you have figured it to be something else. Make sure you are comparing what you came up with to the syllabus, as the syllabus is essentially a contract. I definitely would not be her doormat if I knew I was correct (regardless if the only difference is a C to a C+).

This is why I could never be a professor. I would end up hating my students so much.

 

[NickW9682]

This is why I could never be a professor. I would end up hating my students so much.

Haha, Im not trying to be an ass, but just saying that if you absolutely feel that you are in the right you should say something. I have actually never had a problem with any of my professors however, I did work in the "corporate" world for 6 years so maybe thats why I like like people to explain their reasoning. Not taking sides here!

 

[Ava999]

WWYD? or WWJD? *slowly walks away*

 

[Ava999]

I hope everything works out for you moving forward.

If you spent more time asking your professor how the grading worked and less time trying to justify why you are right and she is wrong, I wonder what the result would be? I am also confused why you expected her to go by your spreadsheet - why would she do that? She has her own, you should be asking her to see it, not producing your own for her. I suspect that you may have approached this in a fundamentally flawed way. And I am still confused why you would prefer to be graded out of 909 rather than 869. That alone makes me suspect that you are over-complicating how to calculate a grade.

What is important is to learn from the experience. In the future assume your professor is correct and ask them if they can explain it to you so that you can understand. If you find a mistake during the process they are much more likely to listen if that is how you approach them.

I approve this message

 

[NickW9682]

to "assume" only makes as ass out of u and me

 

[DelawareStudent]

The good thing is, at least one of you is right. I've gone through this before with a professor where syllabus ambiguity was the culprit. IMO, If you're absolutely positive that you are correct, then there is no reason for you to take any grade less than you deserve. But if you're not 100% sure that you are correct, I'd err on the side of the prof with 35 years experience.

Option 2? Just score 100% on everything, no room for error that way.

 

[NickW9682]

.

 

[owlegrad]

I tried to let this slide but it actually made me mad. Have you ever actually had a real job where you are held accountable?

I am sorry it made you mad. That was not the intent. I would be happy to delete it if you want.

Who do you think is more likely to be correct, the student or the instructor? What is a better way to approach the situation, by being absolutely certain the instructor is wrong and that she needs to be convinced of it or by keeping an open mind and asking the professor to explain the grading?

It is not about being "held accountable". The school does that, not the student. If an error was made (and it very well may have been) it is still better to approach the situation the way I outlined then by having the attitude that because I pay tuition the professor MUST hear me out. As a matter of fact, the professor has no such obligation. She can let the grade stand and let the dean (or whoever) deal with any petition/appeals. Not the best course of action, but she has no contractual obligation to read a student's spreadsheet (the whole concept still confuses me).

I don't want this to turn personal, but to answer your question, yes I have had jobs where I am held accountable.

And as for your delightful assuming comment, touche.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I hope everything works out for you moving forward.

If you spent more time asking your professor how the grading worked and less time trying to justify why you are right and she is wrong, I wonder what the result would be? I am also confused why you expected her to go by your spreadsheet - why would she do that? She has her own, you should be asking her to see it, not producing your own for her. I suspect that you may have approached this in a fundamentally flawed way. And I am still confused why you would prefer to be graded out of 909 rather than 869. That alone makes me suspect that you are over-complicating how to calculate a grade.

What is important is to learn from the experience. In the future assume your professor is correct and ask them if they can explain it to you so that you can understand. If you find a mistake during the process they are much more likely to listen if that is how you approach them.

This. No one likes being told that "they've screwed up", no matter how nicely you put it. When they person in question is a professor who has probably been teaching longer than you've been alive, you need to be that much more careful not to step on their (probably oversized) ego if you want to get this resolved peacefully.

 

[owlegrad]

This. No one likes being told that "they've screwed up", no matter how nicely you put it. When they person in question is a professor who has probably been teaching longer than you've been alive, you need to be that much more careful not to step on their (probably oversized) ego if you want to get this resolved peacefully.

Wow dude, back from the dead?

 

[R2pharmD2]

Wow dude, back from the dead?

Let's just say it was a looooong first semester. My SDN time lost the battle to my study time (as did my free time, sleep time, personal hygiene time, etc. ).

 

[owlegrad]

Let's just say it was a looooong first semester. My SDN time lost the battle to my study time (as did my free time, sleep time, personal hygiene time, etc. ).

Was it worth it? Were you victorious?

 

[R2pharmD2]

Was it worth it? Were you victorious?

Well, I finished with a solid mix of A's and B's for a ~3.5 GPA, so I'm calling it a win.

 

[NickW9682]

I hope everything works out for you moving forward.

If you spent more time asking your professor how the grading worked and less time trying to justify why you are right and she is wrong, I wonder what the result would be? I am also confused why you expected her to go by your spreadsheet - why would she do that? She has her own, you should be asking her to see it, not producing your own for her. I suspect that you may have approached this in a fundamentally flawed way. And I am still confused why you would prefer to be graded out of 909 rather than 869. That alone makes me suspect that you are over-complicating how to calculate a grade.

What is important is to learn from the experience. In the future assume your professor is correct and ask them if they can explain it to you so that you can understand. If you find a mistake during the process they are much more likely to listen if that is how you approach them.

Perhaps you should just wipe your professors ass with your nose...

 

[owlegrad]

Well, I finished with a solid mix of A's and B's for a ~3.5 GPA, so I'm calling it a win.

I would too!

 

[owlegrad]

Perhaps you should just wipe your professors ass with your nose...

I really think you have the wrong idea of me...

 

[xtsukiyox]

Haha, Im not trying to be an ass, but just saying that if you absolutely feel that you are in the right you should say something. I have actually never had a problem with any of my professors however, I did work in the "corporate" world for 6 years so maybe thats why I like like people to explain their reasoning. Not taking sides here!

Nick, why have you done a 180 from this comment? I thought this really captured the best point you have, which I believe both you and owle agree on - if you are absolutely sure you're right, then say something.

I have worked in the corporate world for 7 years for a variety of bosses with different styles, and I am confused as to why that would matter in a discussion about a professor's grading. Yes, you do have a review, but in most cases, much of the review is subjective. Over the course of my higher education, I have had poor instructors and have won at least one grading dispute.

In most cases, the professor is correct for the simple reason that they control the grading. A syllabus is not a contract - the vast majority of the syllabi I have seen state that they may be changed at any time at the discretion of the professor. It sounds like this prof's syllabus is not spelled out "point for point," either, or there wouldn't be a conflict in the first place.

In any situation where you have none of the power and you are trying to influence someone to take action in your favor, approaching with an entitled attitude most often isn't going to get you where you want. Especially when you're dealing with someone who has "big fish little pond" syndrome, as it appears this professor does. While I might not necessarily begin with the assumption that the professor is correct in my head, I would certainly approach the professor that way.

A tip for the OP: I never do these sorts of things by e-mail - I always make a face-to-face appointment. First, I have more control over the situation - I can control how I deliver the message by gauging reaction and I can soften the message if need be. I can end the conversation immediately with an apology if things are going south at a rapid rate. Second, I have the opportunity to make sure my evidence is seen and addressed to my satisfaction; conversely, I can make sure I understand what the other person is saying. If you are going to have misgivings about the grade, it's worth the time.

I am still confused as to why the grades were a mystery prior to final grade posting. You may just end up chalking this one up to a horrible professor - it happens. Try to ask other students who have already taken the classes you're about to take for their opinions; I have never been steered wrong this way.

 

[xtsukiyox]

WWYD? or WWJD? *slowly walks away*

What would Jude Law do?

 

[varsityblue]

What would Jude Law do?