Finace or Doctor path? Based on my resources what would you do?

[Ones]

Alright so I'm a freshman undergrad student at cornell studying engineering. I'm at the point where I could major in whatever I want, but the classes I choose, along with the internships and activities I do, will separate my career apart.
I'm at a crossroad, one path leads to becoming a doctor and the other leads to doing business. All my life I was 99% sure I wanted to become a doctor until these last couple of years where I've been told by actual doctors that if they had the opportunity to restart, they'd go into a different career. But I have racked over 600 hours volunteering in clinics, hospitals and er rooms (in HS). I have done 3 internships all based on medicine. I know what it takes to get into medical school and I have a clear idea of what I need to do. Whereas for investment banking, I just have a vague idea of what's required to become one.

If I go into medical school, I'll major in biological engineering which will overlap with the med school requirements.

If I go into something like finance/investment banking (trading), there's a major called operations research where bank firms can directly recruit from.

My goals for this job are just to able to support family, pay bills, get a house..etc) and earn around 200-250k, 10 years after I start.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at***. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

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[Ones]

I didn't realize how fast people respond to threads here, and within minutes this thread is already at the bottom of the list.

 

[the duck]

For the next 40 years you will spent a large part of your waking life at work. Do what you think you will be happy with. Looking back on your life, you won't give a flying f how much money you made. It'll be what you do and experiences you have that will matter. You will make more than enough money to support a family, easily in the 200k range.

How many bankers have you talked to? I don't think their the happiest bunch in the world either, even the ones that have a job right now.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

My goals for this job are just to able to support family, pay bills, get a house..etc) and earn around 200-250k, 10 years after I start.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at even if you don't like it. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

if i were in your situation, i would develop a less-shallow goal, and not commit to doing something that i don't like. millions of types of jobs/careers exist that can support a family, not just medicine and finance. and where did you come up with 200k? when you achieve that level of income will you feel accomplished, or somewhere along the way will that number change to 300k?

this is going to be your life...actually this is your life right now. i can't believe i have to say this, but don't do something now just because you want to earn X amount of dollars in Y number of years. pick a major based on your interests and see where it takes you. if you happen to end up doing one of the two options proposed, then at least you know you were honest with yourself on the journey.

 

[vivalavie]

Alright so I'm a freshman undergrad student at cornell studying engineering. I'm at the point where I could major in whatever I want, but the classes I choose, along with the internships and activities I do, will separate my career apart.
I'm at a crossroad, one path leads to becoming a doctor and the other leads to doing business. All my life I was 99% sure I wanted to become a doctor until these last couple of years where I've been told by actual doctors that if they had the opportunity to restart, they'd go into a different career. But I have racked over 600 hours volunteering in clinics, hospitals and er rooms (in HS). I have done 3 internships all based on medicine. I know what it takes to get into medical school and I have a clear idea of what I need to do. Whereas for investment banking, I just have a vague idea of what's required to become one.

If I go into medical school, I'll major in biological engineering which will overlap with the med school requirements.

If I go into something like finance/investment banking (trading), there's a major called operations research where bank firms can directly recruit from.

My goals for this job are just to able to support family, pay bills, get a house..etc) and earn around 200-250k, 10 years after I start.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at even if you don't like it. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

inb4 you get destroyed: run. Run now. Flee this horrible place and never return. I'm afraid this is the last piece of mercy you're likely to find on these forums.


That said, you answered your own question "even if you don't like it". DO NOT DO SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE. This isn't some stupid little decision about what you're gonna major in for the next three years or whatever, this is your life. You don't want to enter a career you will be miserable in. Nothing is more important in your life than being happy. Reread that last sentence. That is the best advice anyone will ever give you. If ever you have the opportunity to be happy you take it, you take it or I will strike you. Money is not an end in itself, happiness is. Look it up.

 

[Ones]

inb4 you get destroyed: run. Run now. Flee this horrible place and never return. I'm afraid this is the last piece of mercy you're likely to find on these forums.


That said, you answered your own question "even if you don't like it". DO NOT DO SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE. This isn't some stupid little decision about what you're gonna major in for the next three years or whatever, this is your life. You don't want to enter a career you will be miserable in. Nothing is more important in your life than being happy. Reread that last sentence. That is the best advice anyone will ever give you. If ever you have the opportunity to be happy you take it, you take it or I will strike you. Money is not an end in itself, happiness is. Look it up.

Look I only said even if you don't like what your doing because many people don't like their job. A job is a job and isn't a lifestyle. I put 200k because I think I would be satisfied with anything around that. Don't give me that bull**** where you go into career because you just love to help people. Everyone has a goal and money is a big part of why people choose careers.
I'm just looking for an honest answer

 

[vivalavie]

Look I only said even if you don't like what your doing because many people don't like their job. A job is a job and isn't a lifestyle. I put 200k because I think I would be satisfied with anything around that. Don't give me that bull**** where you go into career because you just love to help people. Everyone has a goal and money is a big part of why people choose careers.
I'm just looking for an honest answer

Let it never be said that I was not compassionate... I warned you. I do not envy you the tide of unmitigated pre-med hatred coming your way... these guys get a little intense.



That said, of course money is a factor, but you really and honestly believe that I could put myself through 4 years of doing better than all my classmates, 4 years of torture in med school then 3-7 years getting paid next to nothing for just over minimum wage 80 hours a week if I didn't absolutely love this stuff? Wrong. And if you think you can do it without any passion you have a painful wake-up coming your way. Love what you do. You might not realize it now but this IS the best advice you will ever receive.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Let it never be said that I was not compassionate... I warned you. I do not envy you the tide of unmitigated pre-med hatred coming your way... these guys get a little intense.



That said, of course money is a factor, but you really and honestly believe that I could put myself through 4 years of doing better than all my classmates, 4 years of torture in med school then 3-7 years getting paid next to nothing for just over minimum wage 80 hours a week if I didn't absolutely love this stuff? Wrong. And if you think you can do it without any passion you have a painful wake-up coming your way. Love what you do. You might not realize it now but this IS the best advice you will ever receive.

To play devil's advocate, how do you know all of this though? How do you know med school is going to be torture? How do you know you love medicine? How do you "know" that med school and residency will be hellish for you? Volunteering and shadowing gives us only a brief glimpse of what the practice of medicine is like. Not only that, it's unlikely that the practice of medicine will be the same a decade from now (when we premeds enter practice) as it is today. I'd be the first to say that it take a bit of a leap of faith to enter medicine.

Not trying to be rude. I'm just curious how someone "knows" that they love medicine without ever having any experience practicing it.

 

[Ones]

Let it never be said that I was not compassionate... I warned you. I do not envy you the tide of unmitigated pre-med hatred coming your way... these guys get a little intense.



That said, of course money is a factor, but you really and honestly believe that I could put myself through 4 years of doing better than all my classmates, 4 years of torture in med school then 3-7 years getting paid next to nothing for just over minimum wage 80 hours a week if I didn't absolutely love this stuff? Wrong. And if you think you can do it without any passion you have a painful wake-up coming your way. Love what you do. You might not realize it now but this IS the best advice you will ever receive.

No but your were speaking as if money didn't matter. It takes interest in a subject/career for you to go all the way. I do think the satisfaction of contributing to the world makes a difference. I narrowed these choices down to something I would want to do. I said I worked over 600 hours volunteering even after I graduated hs. I love learning and I respect patient care. Bottom line is, am I getting paid the amount of effort and work I put in?

Maybe you won't be as optimistic when those same patients you helped, come sue your ass; or when the amount of patients you have increase and you're expected to come in at night shifts

 

[vivalavie]

To play devil's advocate, how do you know all of this though? How do you know med school is going to be torture? How do you know you love medicine? Volunteering and shadowing gives us only a brief glimpse of what the practice of medicine is like. Not only that, it's unlikely that the practice of medicine will be the same a decade from now (when we premeds enter practice) as it is today. I'd be the first to say that it take a bit of a leap of faith to enter medicine.

Not trying to be rude. I'm just curious how someone "knows" that they love medicine without ever having any experience practicing it.

Sooo not the point of this thread, but I love kids (gonna be a pediatrician), I HAVE in fact worked as a clinician to varying degrees, I have worked closely with many doctors, I love science, I love the freedom and the idea of having an impact on people's lives and getting to know them and, yes, help them. This guy has said point blank he knows he's not gonna be happy. Sure, no one can know the future for sure, but you have to maximize the odds that you will be happy.

 

[emsdan]

Look I only said even if you don't like what your doing because many people don't like their job. A job is a job and isn't a lifestyle. I put 200k because I think I would be satisfied with anything around that. Don't give me that bull**** where you go into career because you just love to help people. Everyone has a goal and money is a big part of why people choose careers.
I'm just looking for an honest answer

Don't be so naive. People who don't love their jobs are only still doing it for a few reasons: they think the money will make up for it, they are trying to make enough that they feel confident that they can leave and do what they actually like and not be screwed, they can't find something else for the time being, they are afraid of moving outside their comfort zone, or they are too proud to be on welfare.

People who do jobs and don't like them aren't happy, even if they make a crap-ton of money. You want an honest answer - there it is.

It is cliche, but money isn't happiness. That is hard to believe when you don't have any and are considering what you want to do, but it is the truest thing you can imagine. I just recently found out that there is a millionaire mixed into my middle-class family, and he is easily the least happy of us, and he even likes what he does. He just doesn't like working as hard as he has to to run his business.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=can-money-buy-happiness
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6873PB20100908

 

[Ones]

Sooo not the point of this thread, but I love kids (gonna be a pediatrician), I HAVE in fact worked as a clinician to varying degrees, I have worked closely with many doctors, I love science, I love the freedom and the idea of having an impact on people's lives and getting to know them and, yes, help them. This guy has said point blank he knows he's not gonna be happy. Sure, no one can know the future for sure, but you have to maximize the odds that you will be happy.

I never said I wouldn't be happy, I put the if there because if you choose a career like medicine, there's no turning back. Your in golden cuffs and the only way to pay off the debt is to continue doing medicine.

 

[vivalavie]

Look, Ones, there's this great Malcolm in the Middle quote (sorry, all out of scripture)- People are never gonna pay you what you're worth. Only exception I can think of is CEOs and actors and corporate lawyers who get paid way more than they're worth. You're gonna work like hell, be it as a doctor or an iBanker (by the way, look into that, not actually as easy to become an iBanker on Wall Street as it sounds). You're gonna work so ridiculously hard that if you don't enjoy it it will be complete hell either way. This is the last time I'm gonna say it, after this I leave it to my more unkind peers. I'm not saying it to be preachy, I have nothing to gain from lying to you, I really don't care what you do, but if you don't do something you enjoy you'll regret it.

Edit: this is my last post. I say this sincerely: good luck. You have a lot to learn and I hope you don't have to learn it the hard way.

 

[poshdoctor]

Alright so I'm a freshman undergrad student at cornell studying engineering. I'm at the point where I could major in whatever I want, but the classes I choose, along with the internships and activities I do, will separate my career apart.
I'm at a crossroad, one path leads to becoming a doctor and the other leads to doing business. All my life I was 99% sure I wanted to become a doctor until these last couple of years where I've been told by actual doctors that if they had the opportunity to restart, they'd go into a different career. But I have racked over 600 hours volunteering in clinics, hospitals and er rooms (in HS). I have done 3 internships all based on medicine. I know what it takes to get into medical school and I have a clear idea of what I need to do. Whereas for investment banking, I just have a vague idea of what's required to become one.

If I go into medical school, I'll major in biological engineering which will overlap with the med school requirements.

If I go into something like finance/investment banking (trading), there's a major called operations research where bank firms can directly recruit from.

My goals for this job are just to able to support family, pay bills, get a house..etc) and earn around 200-250k, 10 years after I start.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at***. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

I'm not going to hate on you and I'm not going to attack you.

About 2 weeks ago I was considering leaving medicine and going into Economics as well.

It would be dishonest to say that the salary potential was a not a large factor on why we have decided to pursue medicine. If all we wanted was to help people (besides Surgery) and money was not a issue then we would all be RN's, NP's, and PA's.

If you want to make sure than in 10 years after you start you will have a 6-figure income, then I would stay in medicine. You are almost guaranteed to have a six-figure income regardless of specialty.

However, there is this misconception that as soon as you graduate from your Ivy League or your UC Campus you will be recruited by Morgan Stanley and then you will be on the MBA track. This is not the case. You will be in just as much competition in finance as you will be in medicine.

In terms of stability I find medicine to actually be much more stable.

In addition, if your main concern is money how about a dental specialty such as periodontics, orthodontics, or oral surgery? They make big buck$

 

[Ones]

I'm not going to hate on you and I'm not going to attack you.

About 2 weeks ago I was considering leaving medicine and going into Economics as well.

It would be dishonest to say that the salary potential was a not a large factor on why we have decided to pursue medicine. If all we wanted was to help people (besides Surgery) and money was not a issue then we would all be RN's, NP's, and PA's.

If you want to make sure than in 10 years after you start you will have a 6-figure income, then I would stay in medicine. You are almost guaranteed to have a six-figure income regardless of specialty.

However, there is this misconception that as soon as you graduate from your Ivy League or your UC Campus you will be recruited by Morgan Stanley and then you will be on the MBA track. This is not the case. You will be in just as much competition in finance as you will be in medicine.

In terms of stability I find medicine to actually be much more stable.

In addition, if your main concern is money how about a dental specialty such as periodontics, orthodontics, or oral surgery? They make big buck$

Hey thanks!

 

[poshdoctor]

Hey thanks!

You're welcome

 

[Mornhavon]

.

 

[Nilf]

Alright so I'm a freshman undergrad student at cornell studying engineering. I'm at the point where I could major in whatever I want, but the classes I choose, along with the internships and activities I do, will separate my career apart.
I'm at a crossroad, one path leads to becoming a doctor and the other leads to doing business. All my life I was 99% sure I wanted to become a doctor until these last couple of years where I've been told by actual doctors that if they had the opportunity to restart, they'd go into a different career. But I have racked over 600 hours volunteering in clinics, hospitals and er rooms (in HS). I have done 3 internships all based on medicine. I know what it takes to get into medical school and I have a clear idea of what I need to do. Whereas for investment banking, I just have a vague idea of what's required to become one.

If I go into medical school, I'll major in biological engineering which will overlap with the med school requirements.

If I go into something like finance/investment banking (trading), there's a major called operations research where bank firms can directly recruit from.

My goals for this job are just to able to support family, pay bills, get a house..etc) and earn around 200-250k, 10 years after I start.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at***. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

I agree with the doctors whom you've spoken to.

Medicine is not worth it. The nominal and opportunity cost is too big.

Pretty much any other option is better than medicine for a bright, Ivy league educated person with a solid major (liberal arts do not count).

 

[circulus vitios]

Finance, investment banking, trading, and operations research are all completely different jobs. Investment banking and trading have high burn out rates.

 

[omgyou8myrice]

Everyone wants to become an investment banker with the hope of making millions. If it was easily attainable, wouldn't everyone be one? I wouldn't base your future on that, but that's just me.

 

[SAM MEJ]

And a super-villa...I mean dentist, is born.

Dominated, Good one!

 

[Pons Asinorum]

This thread, like most of the ones that pop up to compare medicine vs. business, is shot through with some basic misunderstandings that have been highlighted a million times in a million other threads, the biggest being that "business" is this place where people who are good at other things can somehow fall back on and become wealthy with much less effort. Pulling down $200-250k means that you are bringing in significant business to a company that is operating profitably. Just because you have done well in your medical school prereqs doesn't grant you access to that club. It requires talent and hard work and being lucky, because there are significant risks. If ever there were a sure-fire way of making a $200k salary, being a non-PCP physician is it. That is why the competition is what it is to get those seats, regardless of the pain it takes to get to the top of the hill.

 

[O2Doc]

You've done a bunch of volunteering in the medical field, enough to know if it still holds interest for you. You've spoken to a few apparently less than happy doctors - have you spoken to any happy ones? They do exist. Try to find them and get their POV.

Your earning goals are more than reasonable for medicine. If that's what you're aiming for, what would make you unhappy if you achieved these goals? What exactly is making the doctors you've talked to unhappy? Do they not enjoy their work, or is it finances? Overwork? Feelings of being underappreciated?

Personally I'm very happy in medicine. I practiced for a few years, and am now doing a fellowship to change my practice a bit. I'm happy with the lifestyle, I'm happy with what I earn, which due to my employers is less than many of my colleagues do (but makes up for it in benefits). If I dreamed of making $350k a year I'd probably be pretty unhappy, but that's not my goal.

 

[LizzyM]

A decision now does not mean you can not change your mind later. We've seen several strong applicants this year, as in years past, who did i-banking or other types of banking/business for a few years and grew disillusioned and dropped it for a post-bac to prepare for medical school. The same goes for engineers and performing artists and many other professions.

While many (most) students graduate with a significant debt, there are options for physicians that do not involve patient care including pharmaceutical/device and population-based research, consulting, insurance, public policy, management. There are even some physicians who have become politicians. There are no golden handcuffs.

 

[ha87]

If you have serious doubts, I'd recommend not going into medicine.

Having life goals is great, but I would suggest trying to focus on the meaning you want to derive from your experiences in life, rather planning a future around salary ten years out or job security. No one knows what is going to happen that far in the future.

There are so many people who have great houses and salaries and are by all measures extremely successful and secure. Many of these individuals, however, are very unhappy because so little of their focus was dedicated to figuring out what brings them happiness in life.

 

[iwarere]

Alright so I'm a freshman undergrad student at cornell studying engineering. I'm at the point where I could major in whatever I want, but the classes I choose, along with the internships and activities I do, will separate my career apart.
I'm at a crossroad, one path leads to becoming a doctor and the other leads to doing business. All my life I was 99% sure I wanted to become a doctor until these last couple of years where I've been told by actual doctors that if they had the opportunity to restart, they'd go into a different career. But I have racked over 600 hours volunteering in clinics, hospitals and er rooms (in HS). I have done 3 internships all based on medicine. I know what it takes to get into medical school and I have a clear idea of what I need to do. Whereas for investment banking, I just have a vague idea of what's required to become one.

If I go into medical school, I'll major in biological engineering which will overlap with the med school requirements.

If I go into something like finance/investment banking (trading), there's a major called operations research where bank firms can directly recruit from.

My goals for this job are just to able to support family, pay bills, get a house..etc) and earn around 200-250k, 10 years after I start.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at***. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

If I were you I'd try out banking for a summer and see if you like it. I did banking the summer after my junior year, and I decided it wasn't for me. It's never been brought up negatively in any of my interviews. In terms of your major, I'd do whatever you're interested in and can do well in. When I applied to finance internships, they were more concerned with GPA than with my concentration. I have many friends who majored in history/literature and landed jobs in banking.

 

[Kevin Baker]

If you have to ask, do finance.

 

[gettheleadout]

It would be dishonest to say that the salary potential was a not a large factor on why we have decided to pursue medicine. If all we wanted was to help people (besides Surgery) and money was not a issue then we would all be RN's, NP's, and PA's.

Uh, no. Money isn't the only reason some of us want to take the physician's path over that of a mid-level provider. I'd still want to be the leader of the team even if the money (education/training debt included) was the same.

 

[Ones]

I agree with the doctors whom you've spoken to.

Medicine is not worth it. The nominal and opportunity cost is too big.

Pretty much any other option is better than medicine for a bright, Ivy league educated person with a solid major (liberal arts do not count).

Yea I was sorta thinking the same way.

To everyone: an MD told me to make full use of your education at an ivy. If someone wanted to do medicine, all medical schools accept students from everywhere. You could go to a state/city school and work your way up to a 4.0 and get into a medical school. It's not that hard. Whereas i'm in a situation where I could get that 4.0 at an engineering college, but then going into med school with a degree that I haven't benefited from. What I mean is, if your at an ivy school where big banking companies recruit, that only go to the top schools, why not make use of that? Otherwise what difference does it make going to a school like harvard or an ivy if your going to end up in the same path (medical school). It's like driving a Mercedes or driving a hundai, both cars drive, but one has a brand name

 

[O2Doc]

Yea I was sorta thinking the same way.

To everyone: an MD told me to make full use of your education at an ivy. If someone wanted to do medicine, all medical schools accept students from everywhere. You could go to a state/city school and work your way up to a 4.0 and get into a medical school. It's not that hard. Whereas i'm in a situation where I could get that 4.0 at an engineering college, but then going into med school with a degree that I haven't benefited from. What I mean is, if your at an ivy school where big banking companies recruit, that only go to the top schools, why not make use of that? Otherwise what difference does it make going to a school like harvard or an ivy if your going to end up in the same path (medical school). It's like driving a Mercedes or driving a hundai, both cars drive, but one has a brand name

Ok, but you said that you were 99% that you wanted to become a doctor, at least until recently. If all it took for you to change your mind was "hey, if you become a doctor you're not really getting full use out of your Ivy degree", then...did you really want to become a doctor, ever?

Go into medicine because you want to go into medicine. Go into banking because you want to go into banking. Don't choose your career based on which option gives you the most use out of your degree.

 

[Silverfalcon]

This is a fun thread, so let's start pointing out the immature part of the OP.

Alright so I'm a freshman undergrad student at cornell

You are a freshman, so stop bragging what you think you know and listen.

I know what it takes to get into medical school and I have a clear idea of what I need to do.

No, you don't. You are a freshman, which means that you didn't take all pre-reqs, no research with publications, no MCAT, no actual medical-school-related activities besides some "hours" you claimed to have spent in hospital.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at***. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

Honestly, nowhere in your first post that you mention any significant interest in helping people. You are only saying, "Hey I am a Ivy League freshman yo, and I want to make doughs, doughs, doughs, so business or medicine, eh?"

 

[slatermd]

What I mean is, if your at an ivy school where big banking companies recruit, that only go to the top schools, why not make use of that? Otherwise what difference does it make going to a school like harvard or an ivy if your going to end up in the same path (medical school). It's like driving a Mercedes or driving a hundai, both cars drive, but one has a brand name

At first I figured you for a troll, just trying to piss of the people on this forum.

Then I gave your original question some thought, and decided that maybe you posted your question on a premed forum to get some encouragement to pursue a career in medicine (ironically, you didn't get any because many people on this forum want to drive away as much competition as possible).

This most recent post takes you back into troll territory. However, you seem like a smart kid so let me break this down for you. I do have the answer to your question.

Your Ivy degree can help you as much (or more) in medicine as it can in business. Ivy med schools do take people from all over, but they also like to keep it in the family. So let's play out this scenario.

You make yourself out to be kind of a gunner (which you're not), but let's assume you get your 4.0. Let's assume you rock your MCAT and get into a top 5 med school. While there, you publish a paper, crush the first step of the medical boards, and land a top residency that ultimately will allow you to work in any hospital you want. You end up at Mass Gen, or whatever the most highly-funded research hospital is.

This is 10 years out from undergrad. You are making a salary of $400 - $750K annually, because you chose a superb specialty. You are teaching Harvard med students and Mass Gen residents. You are running clinical research that will garner you some degree of fame in the medical community. That is what one way your precious Ivy 4.0 could "go to waste" in medicine.

My assessment is that you are a little to complacent to make that work for you. You would land somewhere in the middle, no more famous than you would be as an upper-middle class banker, pulling down $200-$300K annually and hating your life because you chose medicine for the wrong reasons.

Of course money is a factor. If it is your number one motivator, medicine is a bad choice.

If you want to work with money, go into finance. If you want to work with sick people, then you can find your place in medicine.

 

[vivalavie]

Yea I was sorta thinking the same way.

To everyone: an MD told me to make full use of your education at an ivy. If someone wanted to do medicine, all medical schools accept students from everywhere. You could go to a state/city school and work your way up to a 4.0 and get into a medical school. It's not that hard. Whereas i'm in a situation where I could get that 4.0 at an engineering college, but then going into med school with a degree that I haven't benefited from. What I mean is, if your at an ivy school where big banking companies recruit, that only go to the top schools, why not make use of that? Otherwise what difference does it make going to a school like harvard or an ivy if your going to end up in the same path (medical school). It's like driving a Mercedes or driving a hundai, both cars drive, but one has a brand name

Wait, is CORNELL an IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL? No, you're absolutely right, this all makes total sense, this is why you never see kids from Harvard applying to med school. Just explain prestige to me using car metaphors one more time, I think I get it but I'm just not sure.

 

[LizzyM]

Let me explain it. Medical schools do like students from Ivy League and other elite schools because the admissions committees at the undergrad level did their jobs and admitted very bright, very hard working, very interesting people as undergrads. On the other hand, medical schools also admit people who went to public universities and liberal arts colleges known for little else than their basketball (and/or football) teams and the amount of drinking that takes place on weekends.

I-banking programs are far more exclusive in that don't recruit anywhere but at the "best" schools.

Therefore, if you are at one of the "best" schools you might as well take full advantage of that and go into a career that is open only to graduates of those fancy-pants schools.

 

[Silverfalcon]

Medical schools do like students from Ivy League and other elite schools because the admissions committees at the undergrad level did their jobs and admitted very bright, very hard working, very interesting people as undergrads. On the other hand, medical schools also admit people who went to public universities and liberal arts colleges known for little else than their basketball (and/or football) teams and the amount of drinking that takes place on weekends.

I'm a fan of many of your responses, but I have to say, that is pretty blunt generalization. I'm not disagreeing with you that many Ivy League-level students aren't bright, hard-working, or interesting people, but to compare other schools in nation as "known for little else than their basketball (and/or football) teams and the amount of drinking that takes place on weekends" is just premature and inaccurate. I wish you gave a little more thought before saying stuffs like that.

 

[LetsGo352]

Alright so I'm a freshman undergrad student at cornell studying engineering. I'm at the point where I could major in whatever I want, but the classes I choose, along with the internships and activities I do, will separate my career apart.
I'm at a crossroad, one path leads to becoming a doctor and the other leads to doing business. All my life I was 99% sure I wanted to become a doctor until these last couple of years where I've been told by actual doctors that if they had the opportunity to restart, they'd go into a different career. But I have racked over 600 hours volunteering in clinics, hospitals and er rooms (in HS). I have done 3 internships all based on medicine. I know what it takes to get into medical school and I have a clear idea of what I need to do. Whereas for investment banking, I just have a vague idea of what's required to become one.

If I go into medical school, I'll major in biological engineering which will overlap with the med school requirements.

If I go into something like finance/investment banking (trading), there's a major called operations research where bank firms can directly recruit from.

My goals for this job are just to able to support family, pay bills, get a house..etc) and earn around 200-250k, 10 years after I start.

So I'm asking you to put yourself in my situation, with my resources and make a decision with the fact you would do something that your good at***. Of course you would need to take into consideration job security and how hard it is to get into both careers

Cool future, bro

 

[Ones]

This is a fun thread, so let's start pointing out the immature part of the OP.



You are a freshman, so stop bragging what you think you know and listen.



No, you don't. You are a freshman, which means that you didn't take all pre-reqs, no research with publications, no MCAT, no actual medical-school-related activities besides some "hours" you claimed to have spent in hospital.



Honestly, nowhere in your first post that you mention any significant interest in helping people. You are only saying, "Hey I am a Ivy League freshman yo, and I want to make doughs, doughs, doughs, so business or medicine, eh?"

Look your not contributing anything meaningful in this thread. You instead replied to this thread and kept reading the responses (most likely pressing f5) until there was one that was actually helpful in giving me insight. Then you criticized that person who gave an answer that could help. Your hopeless, and I don't need to explain anything to you. You're like what one user said above. You're one of those people who like to see people who have ambition or are asking advice, fall down. No where in my whole thread was I bragging, I'm just trying to make the situation as realistic as possible and was hoping that it would give users a good picture of what background I had.

 

[Ones]

At first I figured you for a troll, just trying to piss of the people on this forum.

Then I gave your original question some thought, and decided that maybe you posted your question on a premed forum to get some encouragement to pursue a career in medicine (ironically, you didn't get any because many people on this forum want to drive away as much competition as possible).

This most recent post takes you back into troll territory. However, you seem like a smart kid so let me break this down for you. I do have the answer to your question.

Your Ivy degree can help you as much (or more) in medicine as it can in business. Ivy med schools do take people from all over, but they also like to keep it in the family. So let's play out this scenario.

You make yourself out to be kind of a gunner (which you're not), but let's assume you get your 4.0. Let's assume you rock your MCAT and get into a top 5 med school. While there, you publish a paper, crush the first step of the medical boards, and land a top residency that ultimately will allow you to work in any hospital you want. You end up at Mass Gen, or whatever the most highly-funded research hospital is.

This is 10 years out from undergrad. You are making a salary of $400 - $750K annually, because you chose a superb specialty. You are teaching Harvard med students and Mass Gen residents. You are running clinical research that will garner you some degree of fame in the medical community. That is what one way your precious Ivy 4.0 could "go to waste" in medicine.

My assessment is that you are a little to complacent to make that work for you. You would land somewhere in the middle, no more famous than you would be as an upper-middle class banker, pulling down $200-$300K annually and hating your life because you chose medicine for the wrong reasons.

Of course money is a factor. If it is your number one motivator, medicine is a bad choice.

If you want to work with money, go into finance. If you want to work with sick people, then you can find your place in medicine.

Hey you understood my intentions exactly! Honestly, I just wanted people to give me an insight on whether to go into medicine or not, which was my lifelong goal. I just wanted to more feedback and more self-esteem, so I can feel that I'm making the right decision.

 

[dbeast]

1. Go into plastics
2. Private practice (kinda like business)
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

250k a year is nothing.

 

[slatermd]

Hey you understood my intentions exactly! Honestly, I just wanted people to give me an insight on whether to go into medicine or not, which was my lifelong goal. I just wanted to more feedback and more self-esteem, so I can feel that I'm making the right decision.

It is a difficult decision to make. Medicine misses out some potential heavy hitters because nobody encouraged them to pursue it.

You've got to consider two things. Is medicine a good fit for you? and are you a good fit for medicine?

In choosing any career, you want to know, "from my perspective, does the good outweigh the bad?"

Medicine comes with a lot of the same sacrifices as a successful business or finance career (or any other theoretically lucrative career that doesn't involve sick people). However, medicine has a whole unique class of turn-offs that you won't find on wall street. For the sake of brevity, I'll just list some of the smells:

• stool of complete strangers
• stool of complete strangers who have C. diff. (you smell it down the hall)
• stool of someone having pancreatic problems
• stool of very old people who have lost control of their bowels, yet still insist on eating prunes and Metamucil
• Wet gangrene
• Infected donor sites of skin grafts
• diabetic ulcers which the owner, believing in some folk remedy, sprinkled with a mixture of urine and lemon juice
• Halitosis
• Vomit
• Cauterized flesh in the OR
• Hospital cafeteria food (arguably the worst one listed)

Basically, medicine is difficult, and not in a glamorous way. It takes a weird person to know the unique and disgusting and heartbreaking downsides to a career in medicine and still say "it's totally worth it. There's nothing else I could be satisfied doing."

So, are you weird?

You can't ask yourself (or this forum) if you should be a doctor by launching into a financial analysis.

If you do a cost/benefit ratio, and your cost includes everything (time, debt, opportunity cost, C. diff. stools, compromise on your family life) and your benefit is only financial, medicine will lose every time.

There have to be other benefits, from your unique perspective and based on the things you love in life, that outweigh all of the bad, weird, smelly "downsides" to medicine.

 

[slatermd]

1. Go into plastics
2. Private practice (kinda like business)
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

250k a year is nothing.

This is hilarious and true.

Plenty of plastic surgeons don't even deal with insurance. They either take straight cash, or they finance the procedures for their patients and end up earning the interest too! Funny, and brilliant from an economic standpoint.

These guys have reported incomes of 1.2 mill or more annually. If you really wanted to be a business man at the same time, you would start a practice and bring in a few other less ambitious plastic surgeons. Pay them $500K a year while they generate a 1 mill in billing. Symbiotic relationship as they use your facility and business entity, and you make an extra $500K per partner.

Can't say you'd be satisfied with your life, but you would be wealthy!

 

[LizzyM]

I'm a fan of many of your responses, but I have to say, that is pretty blunt generalization. I'm not disagreeing with you that many Ivy League-level students aren't bright, hard-working, or interesting people, but to compare other schools in nation as "known for little else than their basketball (and/or football) teams and the amount of drinking that takes place on weekends" is just premature and inaccurate. I wish you gave a little more thought before saying stuffs like that.

I wish you had read my response... I said that medical schools accept students from schools that aren't known for much more than sports and parties. That is a blunt generalization??? premature? inaccurate? Please explain it to me.

 

[Ones]

I agree with the doctors whom you've spoken to.

Medicine is not worth it. The nominal and opportunity cost is too big.

Pretty much any other option is better than medicine for a bright, Ivy league educated person with a solid major (liberal arts do not count).

Hey could you elaborate?

 

[ccmonopolies]

Hey could you elaborate?

The other premeds will hate me for saying this but choose finance if you want to maximize the amount of money you earn over your life time.

To make my point, here's my life so far.

In high school I knew that as long as I did well in college I could get into a medical school. Because of this, I only applied to my state schools. I went to a top ranked state school and I'm now a first year student in medical school.

Let me tell you something straight: the path to being a practicing M.D. sucks. The return on time spent is terrible.

If I had to go back and redo part of high school and college I would have applied to ivy league schools, majored in Econ or some other major that was similar, pursued finance internships during the appropriate times in college, and would have been rewarded out with a full time offer in investment banking or maybe even PE if I was lucky.

After the 2-4 year stint, I would have then gotten a MBA. After the MBA, I would have lateraled into PE or HFs. If all goes well, sooner or later I would have started my own firm. At which point, the sky is the limit.

However, now in medical school, I have to constantly study for my exams. For the next 6.5 years, I only have the possibility of seeing a 200K per year income as motivation. Granted, I will also be in 200K in debt when I finish. (My only consolation is that I could potentially spin the few years of residency as work experience for when I apply for MBA programs in the future). The end result of me taking this path is that I'll be 4 years behind my peers who went straight into finance.

Anyways, pursue medicine if you'll be happy making 200K-400K a year when you're about 30. Pursue finance if you think you have what it takes to earn the equivalent of a doctor's lifetime earnings in one year.

PM me in the future if you succeed in finance.

 

[Silverfalcon]

I wish you had read my response... I said that medical schools accept students from schools that aren't known for much more than sports and parties. That is a blunt generalization??? premature? inaccurate? Please explain it to me.

Yes, I did read what you wrote, and your overall point wasn't inaccurate. Medical schools do accept students from various institutions, Ivy and non-Ivy, public and private, co-ed and one-gender (don't know what's the technical term for that), etc. What I meant by "blunt generalization" was the way you described schools - "known for little else than their basketball (and/or football) teams and the amount of drinking that takes place on weekends."

I know you are trying to make a point, and I did see it. It was just that as someone who attends a school that is not Ivy League, I did feel that the description was a bit harsh even though you probably didn't intend to be that way. I do know what you mean, but you could have worded it little gently, that's all.

 

[MCATism]

Wow, where to begin.

(1) Your post was making quite a few assumptions. You're one semester in,.... we all had 4.0s then. Don't assume it will last - all it takes is a few unfair grading schemes, life difficulties, or challenging courses and your GPA will drop - don't think you're above this. Furthermore, don't think you're automatically accepted to grad/professional school yet - you've got a long way to go, whether in finance or in medicine. Consider the journey.

(2) I would be scared if someone as financially-oriented as you were my doctor. I get that the whole "I want to be a doctor so I can help people!" line is both cliche and shallow, but really, think about it. People are more than dollar bills in your pocket. You can't fake sincerity. How do you expect to overcome that obstacle? I can't imagine the pain of telling someone they're dying, and somehow not caring. Living that way is a certain kind of hell, I think.

(3) I get your consideration about finance vs medicine. I went through the same thing but for a totally different reason - I wanted a challenging job with long hours and a ton of responsibility. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm one of those hyper-type-A-personality type of people. I viewed finance and medicine as the two most demanding professions that I had interest in. The salary thing was a shock to me though - in Canada (where I'm from), doctors don't make very much, and I assumed people in finance make around 100k. Ask yourself what you'd do if the jobs paid the same?

(4) If you're looking to "get the value" out of your ivy degree, you need to get over yourself. You are NOT your school. While going to a good school is undeniably beneficial, you can't simply ride that wave into your 14,000 square foot ocean front home. College isn't the end of working hard - it's the beginning.

(5) If you hate your job, your life is meaningless. Think about it. You'll be spending more time earning your money than you will spending it. Time has inherent value. I assume that you want money to use it to buy enjoyable things/experiences. What good is it if you're working 100 hour weeks at something you can't stand?

Bottom line is, get over the brand names, the salaries, and your own ego. Why did you choose engineering? What are you good at? What do you want from a job? From life? Seriously, lay everything else aside and think.


Also, it seems like your post is just seeking us to tell you to go into finance. So do it. I certainly don't care what you do, but you will. So give yourself the opportunity to make decisions based on more than their monetary value.

 

[Nilf]

Hey could you elaborate?

Medicine is simply not worth the time, effort and LOST OPPORTUNITIES. The lost opportunities include personal and professional activities that you COULD have been doing but medical career will prevent you from doing so.

somebody here posted a examples of how much money people make in other careers... Personal trainers breaking 100K is not unusual... THIS > medicine.... because...


Medicine comes with many MANY upalatable moments that you will have to endure for at least 10 years, and likely longer. And at the same time you will not have a chance to do things that other 'civilian' part of the population is doing. Mark my words.

I mean... if you are a bright, hard working individual from a good school, why would you endure a decade of torture and missed opportunites for a promised land of a six digit salary, if there are many other, easier ways to get there?

And don't even get me started on the new healthcare law, malpractice lawsuits, etc.

Note... this is coming from someone who beat the system and landed a coveted elite specialty certification, and is currently in the process of raking in the $$$...

 

[Nilf]

Are you a dermatopathologist?

Yes.

 

[ha87]

Not that it matters very much, but in the future, please make sure to check your spelling / grammar whenever you can. When a topic title is Finace or medicine, or I see "Look your not contributing anything meaningful in this thread", it becomes harder to take you seriously. I know I might get flack for this response, but carelessness on a future application can definitely differentiate two similarly qualified candidates.

 

[Ones]

Are you a dermatopathologist?

What careers are you talking about that are easier/faster than going into medical?