Finally all residencies are 3yrs now!

[347932]

Out of anybody on this great planet who should know about 2015 in and out is the past, current and elected president of the APMA. Especially if you are coming to an APMSA meeting to talk to student representatives about 2015. That's precisely my point. The hand isn't communicating with body (or however that saying goes).

Why?

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[podpal]

Firstly, if practices are doing 75% CC (Clip and Chip I assume), they are not surviving, whether they are surgeons or not.

I apologize for any confusion, by CC I was refering to Conservative Care, not clip and chip.

Thanks for the input, appreciate your responses! All of the responses are have been great!

It's good to see advancement in our chosen field; let's hope for training and success for all in our future!

 

[densmore22]

Why?

Dude, I'm done. We're not going to see eye to eye. I'm done repeating myself. I think the APMA has a lot of work to do to be on par with other professional organizations. Can we just agree to disagree. Thank you for being such an awesome advocate for all of us peons out there, I just couldn't, wouldn't, can't do it.

 

[hematosis]

Vision 2015: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5500158&postcount=12

I agree with Kids feet and fully support vision 2015.
This can only elevate this profession. I think that the newer generation podiatrist will prosper most from this and that the older podiatrist are a little bit threatened by this. Perhaps they feel that this may be bad for business (as mentioned before with the insurance dilemma) or that they maybe looked down upon because they only did a 1 year residency...etc

Also, parity is very important. If we cannot be fully respected by our colleagues (MDs and DO's) then how can we expect our patients to respect us? why do you think DO's worked so hard to reach equality with the MD's. Politics is VERY important. Its good for business and we need to play this game.

I know that some of you old folks out there are saying "well look here jimmy, lets stop complaining and just heal patients problems. Thats what this profession was created for and thats what its all about, lets let our work speak for itself..." yes my friend this is true but if we don't play this politics game then we will lose the amount of ways we can help our dear old patients. Them orthopods guys are always trying to push podiatrist away and trying to "fight back" Vision 2015 is podiatrist fighting back.

on a side note, i think that podiatrist and orthopods complement each other very well such that their combined talents can be really beneficial for patients. ( kind of similar to the 5 young Planeteers that can combine their powers and summon captain planet)

change is good my friends. don't be scared
to the new 3 year residency!!

 

[347932]

Dude, I'm done. We're not going to see eye to eye. I'm done repeating myself. I think the APMA has a lot of work to do to be on par with other professional organizations. Can we just agree to disagree. Thank you for being such an awesome advocate for all of us peons out there, I just couldn't, wouldn't, can't do it.

As long as you are not and refuse to get involved, I will politely continue to disagree with you. I have no interest in listening to complaints from anyone who sits on the sidelines expecting others to do all the work.

 

[densmore22]

As long as you are not and refuse to get involved, I will politely continue to disagree with you. I have no interest in listening to complaints from anyone who sits on the sidelines expecting others to do all the work.

First, I never said I disagreed with 2015. I just think it's vague and not many people can tell you what it's actually about. Since the President elect/President of APMA is one of our biggest representatives to other professions, then yes, they need to be fully aware of 2015. Second, you act like the APMA is the only way to be involved with progressing our profession. There's a ton of other ways that I will choose/am choosing to advance our profession so don't make me out to be someone who is "sitting on the sidelines." Simply because I choose to not agree with the APMA doesn't make me any less dedicated to my profession than someone who is intimately involved with the APMA (be it a volunteered or paid position).

 

[347932]

First, I never said I disagreed with 2015. I just think it's vague and not many people can tell you what it's actually about. Since the President elect/President of APMA is one of our biggest representatives to other professions, then yes, they need to be fully aware of 2015. Second, you act like the APMA is the only way to be involved with progressing our profession. There's a ton of other ways that I will choose/am choosing to advance our profession so don't make me out to be someone who is "sitting on the sidelines." Simply because I choose to not agree with the APMA doesn't make me any less dedicated to my profession than someone who is intimately involved with the APMA (be it a volunteered or paid position).

I see. Do you really think any other medical profession is even aware of Vision 2015? Do they need to be? So by your line of progression, the representative of our Profession (the APMA President) to other medical professions should know NOTHING about Vision 2015, since it doesn't affect the relationship between Podiatry and other medical professions YET. I do somewhat agree with your earlier statement about sending the Pres to the student body and then not answering questions regarding Vision 2015. BUT, would you have rather have seen the employee of the APMA who may be drafting all the documents and knows more about that topic alone come and talk to you? Probably not.

I hate to tell you this, but the way organizations are set up determines their power to affect change.

The way the ABPS, ACFAS, ASPS and every other organization EXCEPT the APMA are set up, does not give them the ability to lobby and affect change at the political level.

NO other organization in our profession can do what the APMA does to advance our profession.

Let me give you an example. So now you have three years of residency and decide to move to a State where you can't do rearfoot procedures for whatever reason. The ACFAS can't help you. The ABPS can't help you. BUT your state society and the APMA can, if you want to try to change the state scope. They helped do it in New York recently. Yes it took a long time.

Another example. You bill for a surgical code and are denied payment for some reason which you have no idea why. The ACFAS MIGHT be able to help you. Call the APMA and they will have their coding specialist do this for you and figure out a way for you to successfully get paid for your procedure. They helped me numerous times with this.

All this is included in your annual dues.

You are correct. There are many ways to get involved. But for what you had discussed earlier, the APMA is the way to help out. I never said you weren't dedicated. What I do think is that its easy to complain about anything you want. But rather than complain I prefer to take the road of getting involved with things that I believe in to facilitate change. Even if it takes years.

 

[dtrack22]

I see. Do you really think any other medical profession is even aware of Vision 2015? Do they need to be? So by your line of progression, the representative of our Profession (the APMA President) to other medical professions should know NOTHING about Vision 2015, since it doesn't affect the relationship between Podiatry and other medical professions YET.

This is pretty incoherent. Are you saying that people outside of podiatry (other professionals) don't need to be aware of 2015? And I'm not 100% sure since I don't get what you wrote, but I think you have densmore's comments backwards...he said that the Pres SHOULD completely understand 2015 as he/she is the spokesperson for our profession. Unfortunately, according to dens, the Pres DIDN'T know what 2015 was about, or at least couldn't explain it to the HOD/student bodies.

 

[347932]

This is pretty incoherent. Are you saying that people outside of podiatry (other professionals) don't need to be aware of 2015? And I'm not 100% sure since I don't get what you wrote, but I think you have densmore's comments backwards...he said that the Pres SHOULD completely understand 2015 as he/she is the spokesperson for our profession. Unfortunately, according to dens, the Pres DIDN'T know what 2015 was about, or at least couldn't explain it to the HOD/student bodies.

Let me break it down for you. Until Vision 2015 is complete and all parts of the puzzle overcome, do you think anyone outside of podiatry (in medicine that is) really cares? I'll answer that for you. They don't. Its a big deal to us and will help us once we can put all the pieces together, but until then, your medical colleagues don't want to know what will be. They want to know what is. NOW.

That being said, if the President of the APMA is our advocate and spokesperson for our profession to our medical colleagues, the Pres should be abreast and VERY knowledgeable about CURRENT topics, so they can stand toe to toe with our naysayers and uneducated amongst our colleagues.

Here's an example. When faced with the question about what our current training is and what the State laws are, the President of the APMA needs to know how many in current practice have what kind of training and what each state law says about our scope of practice NOW. That is a likely question faced every time the president is at an inter disciplinary function. No one wants to hear "we're not sure now, but wait until 2015 when we'll really have a standardization (which may not even happen by then). " You see what I mean?

So in the above example, why would it be important for the current Pres to know every little detail of Vision 2015? When dealing with the student body, I agree that perhaps it si something that should be addressed, BUT again, there are better people within the APMA to answer that question.

 

[dtrack22]

Ahhhh, ok, got it.

Let me break it down for you. Until Vision 2015 is complete and all parts of the puzzle overcome, do you think anyone outside of podiatry (in medicine that is) really cares? I'll answer that for you. They don't. Its a big deal to us and will help us once we can put all the pieces together, but until then, your medical colleagues don't want to know what will be. They want to know what is. NOW.

I get what you are saying, but the nature of Vision 2015 makes so that it is completed in waves, periodically. There are steps to Vision 2015, and I would hope the President is not only knowledgable about the CURRENT situation but also the NEXT step in accomplishing this initiative. Even if these questions rarely come up in the company professionals, on the off chance someone asks our president what the vision means, I sure as hell don't want him/her stumbling around the question like an idiot...is it that too much to ask?

 

[347932]

Ahhhh, ok, got it.



I get what you are saying, but the nature of Vision 2015 makes so that it is completed in waves, periodically. There are steps to Vision 2015, and I would hope the President is not only knowledgable about the CURRENT situation but also the NEXT step in accomplishing this initiative. Even if these questions rarely come up in the company professionals, on the off chance someone asks our president what the vision means, I sure as hell don't want him/her stumbling around the question like an idiot...is it that too much to ask?

Although I understand your point, apparently it is too much to ask or it would be done. To get a point across in a political environment requires short concise answers that don't leave a whole lot of room for inquisitive detail hunts. "Vision 2015 is an attempt to make sure all our graduates get equal training so we can accomplish a national scope of practice and avoid all the current confusion surrounding who we are as medical professionals." Does that sound about right? Now for someone who doesn't really know much about Vision 2015, that answer would suffice I think, so I would imagine that something like that is the rote Presidential answer. For a very inquisitive student body, that is hardly enough, but may be all you get from the Head Honcho.

Honestly speaking, there are many other things that the APMA Presidents devote their time to during their tenure. Much like the President of the USA, each incoming president is tasked with an agenda that is of priority during their term.

When Dr. Ross Taubman was fulfilling his term, he was very much involved with Vision 2015 as it was really in its infancy and needed the strong push with the constituents of the APMA. Now, it is mostly rolling along so it doesn't need the same umph at our level. Politically it still needs a lot of umph, but for us in practice and in our interest with residency, the steam is already full tilt.

The other thing too is that all the information you need to educate yourself about Vision 2015 is available to all of you. Its kind of like asking Dr. Mike Downey how to do a bunion when he comes to you to lecture on another more complex topic. You know what he'd tell you? "I learned it in McGlamry (the textbook) and its still there for you to learn from too." So really, the President should have either told you s/he wasn't aware of all the details, and refer you to someone who can answer your questions better, or give you a website to peruse. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[Podfather]

let me break it down for you. Until vision 2015 is complete and all parts of the puzzle overcome, do you think anyone outside of podiatry (in medicine that is) really cares? I'll answer that for you. They don't. Its a big deal to us and will help us once we can put all the pieces together, but until then, your medical colleagues don't want to know what will be. They want to know what is. Now.

sorry but project 2015 is well known to the mds and they have been tracking it. At a mediation with the orthopods they specifically brought this up and medicine is already planning to block this. As far as the person above suggesting that the senior people are afraid of this you have got to be kidding. I am for it and btw who do you think will be teaching the youngsters? I laugh when some of the newbies think they are better than people of my generation simply because of timing. Also be careful for what you wish for. The only way to prove parity is for our students to score as well as the md students on the uslme. We have all discussed some of the people the schools accept. Some can't pass the nbpme (sorry if the initials are wrong). I took the mskp exam 25 years ago which was the exam you had to take to transfer into a medical school from a foreign school or another profession. I nailed it and many of my peers in residency could have as well. Today when i see 15 entering the residency process having not passed part 1 i worry that we may shoot ourselves in the foot if we push the parity with some of the bottom dwellers still in the game.

that being said, if the president of the apma is our advocate and spokesperson for our profession to our medical colleagues, the pres should be abreast and very knowledgeable about current topics, so they can stand toe to toe with our naysayers and uneducated amongst our colleagues.

Here's an example. When faced with the question about what our current training is and what the state laws are, the president of the apma needs to know how many in current practice have what kind of training and what each state law says about our scope of practice now. That is a likely question faced every time the president is at an inter disciplinary function. No one wants to hear "we're not sure now, but wait until 2015 when we'll really have a standardization (which may not even happen by then). " you see what i mean?

So in the above example, why would it be important for the current pres to know every little detail of vision 2015? When dealing with the student body, i agree that perhaps it si something that should be addressed, but again, there are better people within the apma to answer that question.

p

 

[UNVME2]

Its kind of like asking Dr. Mike Downey how to do a bunion when he comes to you to lecture on another more complex topic. You know what he'd tell you? "I learned it in McGlamry (the textbook) and its still there for you to learn from too."

As an aside, the same could be said for our entire education then (as it's all in one textbook or another).

As for Dr. Downey, I have to disagree. He is one of the finest lecturers and educators in our profession and of the 10+ times I've seen him lecture never have I heard him belittle a student, regardless of the question or topic.

Furthermore, everyone does something different when they do surgery, whether it be a specific cut, angle, insturment, etc because it either works for them or not and that tends to be the focus of their talk.

 

[347932]

As an aside, the same could be said for our entire education then (as it's all in one textbook or another).

As for Dr. Downey, I have to disagree. He is one of the finest lecturers and educators in our profession and of the 10+ times I've seen him lecture never have I heard him belittle a student, regardless of the question or topic.

Furthermore, everyone does something different when they do surgery, whether it be a specific cut, angle, insturment, etc because it either works for them or not and that tends to be the focus of their talk.

I think you took my comment a little harshly. I agree with you about Mike. The point was that if he is lecturing about something else and is asked a question about something that has nothing to do with what he is lecturing on, he is likely to point you in the direction of where to educate yourself on the subject. He doesn't do it in a belittling way at all. Just as a point of education. He was one of my professors, so I know his MO. He's a great guy and I meant no disrespect in my comment.

 

[PADPM]

Vision 2015: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5500158&postcount=12

I agree with Kids feet and fully support vision 2015.
This can only elevate this profession. I think that the newer generation podiatrist will prosper most from this and that the older podiatrist are a little bit threatened by this. Perhaps they feel that this may be bad for business (as mentioned before with the insurance dilemma) or that they maybe looked down upon because they only did a 1 year residency...etc

Also, parity is very important. If we cannot be fully respected by our colleagues (MDs and DO's) then how can we expect our patients to respect us? why do you think DO's worked so hard to reach equality with the MD's. Politics is VERY important. Its good for business and we need to play this game.

I know that some of you old folks out there are saying "well look here jimmy, lets stop complaining and just heal patients problems. Thats what this profession was created for and thats what its all about, lets let our work speak for itself..." yes my friend this is true but if we don't play this politics game then we will lose the amount of ways we can help our dear old patients. Them orthopods guys are always trying to push podiatrist away and trying to "fight back" Vision 2015 is podiatrist fighting back.

on a side note, i think that podiatrist and orthopods complement each other very well such that their combined talents can be really beneficial for patients. ( kind of similar to the 5 young Planeteers that can combine their powers and summon captain planet)

change is good my friends. don't be scared
to the new 3 year residency!!

Are you kidding me? I love when the "younger" DPMs or better yet DPMs in training have the misconception that the "older" DPMs are somehow or in some way going to be "threatened" by this, or that anything will be "bad for business".........or that some will be "looked down upon" because of having "only" done a one year residency.

WHO DO YOU THINK opened the doors for the younger podiatrists so they can obtain the 3 and/or 4 year programs? Do you think that magically happened or that MAYBE, just MAYBE those "old and threatened, one year trained" podiatrists had the vision to lay the groundwork for YOU.

I'm really sick and tired of hearing/reading about the "older docs" and their supposed resistance and threatened attitude, because I've yet to experience that with anyone I've met. As a matter of fact, it's been quite the opposite. Many of my colleagues who didn't have the opportunity to have good training are offering excellent starting salaries and benefits to young DPMs who are well trained to augment their practices with surgical services they were unable to offer in the past.

I'm not patting myself on the back, but I personally fought in several hosptials for privileges that were originally simply nail cutting consults, hammertoe repairs and soft tissue privileges, to full foot, rearfoot and ankle privileges. And now EVERY DPM on staff enjoys those privileges (if they have the training) and have no idea that it took me years and years of having to prove myself to the chairman of the department of podiatry, chairman of surgery and chairman of orthopedics (who do NOT like podiatry) to obtain those privileges. I am only one of hundreds if not thousands of DPMs who did the same at their local hospitals, and I'm confident that Podfather has done the same.

So don't insult the "older" docs and throw garbage unsubtantiated statements around that these same "older" docs that created the present privileges you enjoy, will suddently now be threatened.

That's analagous to me being "threatened" that one of my kids will be more successful than me.

Your success and the success of your colleagues in no way impacts me. I've been there, done that and I HOPE you achieve the success I've enjoyed. Just be prepared to work as hard.

 

[347932]

Hi Podfather,

I read your response and if I'm mistaken about who is tracking Vision 2015, I haven't been able to find this information or data. Can you link where I can read about this, as I've kept a pretty close eye on V2015, and can't really say I've read anywhere about the Orthopods or MDs getting involved at the national level to the point where they can "block".

Yes at the state/hospital level there has been resistance to more privileging and more advancement, but no more or less than usual as I've read or experienced.

I would appreciate any help with this, thanks!

As far as what PADPM responded, I think he is spot on. We have to embrace and celebrate those that paved the way before us. We would not be at the level we are without their efforts, at the National, State, Hospital and skills level. Those guys/gals who started with one year of training (or some with no training at all for that matter) are the ones teaching in the 3 year programs. Remember that.

I do have to admit that I've met some in my travels who are very resistant of the changes put forth. There is one participant on these forums who has very vocally expressed his concern about the advancements within V2015. I don't know why and I'm not in a position to speculate.

All of us have to forward think as the generations before us have. That is the only way to true success for all involved.

 

[Foot Doc]

Or maybe the student should study harder and pay more attention. But hey, this just goes with this generation wanting everything handed to them. I get somewhat annoyed when professors basically tell you what is on their exam. Yes, it makes studying easier in the short run, but we do ourselves a disservice by only studying what is absolutely necessary. In the long run (boards and future) we never studied it because it wasn't going to be tested. That doesnt make it any less important for the real world, where peoples health counts, not what grade you wanted on the test. How about we do our job and learn what is presented, then we won't have people saying "oh, I didnt think that was going to be on the test, I didnt study that." Thats not the way life works. Know everything, be prepared for anything. (I understand it is not that simple, but work with me here.)

Isn't the MCAT a "standardized" format? Not sure about you, but I really didnt know what was going to be on the MCAT before I took it.

agreed