Financial advice needed for upcoming D1 student

[lusy007]

Hello!

I just received financial loan information from the school and I would like to get some advice before accepting the loans.
My school is one of the most expansive dental schools, so the amount of attendance of the school is about 130K per year including all living costs (rent, supplies, tuition, etc.). With Grad PLUS loan and direct unsubsized loan will cover all the costs.

I am thinking to accept all the amount that was offered and return the unnecessary amount back within 2 to 3 months before interest buildup. Is it a good idea to do that or should l look for other options such as getting a private loan with lower interest? I read the article saying that private loans are possible for refinancing later and eventually will save a lot more. I am wondering how dental students are dealing with these huge numbers.

I do understand the amount of money that I need to pay later after I graduate. It is A LOT, so I am trying to find a way to save the money as much as possible during the dental school by borrowing less amount or having a lower interest rate.

Honestly, any advice is really appreciated!

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[PerioDont]

Strongly consider not going to dental school. Before interest you are talking about 520,000$.

 

[Firik]

I'll give you three great points on this topic:
1) Research a lot on this topic from youtube, articles, and government websites.
2) Take government loans as they have more protection for you and more repayment options down the road.
3) I would advise to take all of the loans offered, especially during your first year, because if you have no other income or savings, then you will struggle. For example, there are stuff you will need that you didn't budget in. For me, the biggest expense was spending on good loopes and lights ($2300). However, if you have savings, then taking all and returning some is a bad idea, because any amount that you receive, they have origination fees (amount of money deducted before distributing to you). This is why taking maximum at first and then seeing expenses for future semesters to cut back is a better idea.
Also, if you have parents with low income, include it in your fafsa application and your school will give a special loan with better terms/interest.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Generally, you don’t want to go above a 1:1 or 1.5:1 debt to earnings ratio. I would strongly consider hpsp or a similar program.


If you’re confident you can make 260k as a dentist, it may not be a horrible investment. don’t know if this is a probable salary as I don’t know much about dental salaries.

I would strongly avoid private loans as there would be no plsf, ibr, etc.

 

[LFA20]

I think $500k before interest is a bit too much

 

[Ivy.ch]

Hello!

I just received financial loan information from the school and I would like to get some advice before accepting the loans.
My school is one of the most expansive dental schools, so the amount of attendance of the school is about 130K per year including all living costs (rent, supplies, tuition, etc.). With Grad PLUS loan and direct unsubsized loan will cover all the costs.

I am thinking to accept all the amount that was offered and return the unnecessary amount back within 2 to 3 months before interest buildup. Is it a good idea to do that or should l look for other options such as getting a private loan with lower interest? I read the article saying that private loans are possible for refinancing later and eventually will save a lot more. I am wondering how dental students are dealing with these huge numbers.

I do understand the amount of money that I need to pay later after I graduate. It is A LOT, so I am trying to find a way to save the money as much as possible during the dental school by borrowing less amount or having a lower interest rate.

Honestly, any advice is really appreciated!

Was this the only school option you had?

 

[D1Bound]

I would think long and hard about what the future looks like after dental school. Sit back and think why you want to do this job called dentistry. Will you be able to work and produce enough to cover the interest, pay down the principle on the loan, and live frugally until it’s cut down a decent amount? I don’t know how old you are, but this decision will 100% delay many other financial milestones such as purchasing a home. You need to be okay with that.

 

[laster67]

how much work would be needed to hit that production? If someone works slower, then they’ll naturally be behind the ball when starting out and produce less in a day ?

 

[lusy007]

Was this the only school option you had?

Yes. This was the only school l got accepted

 

[Blackca3]

Origination fees are credited back on the amount you return within either 90 or 180 days of taking the loan. Can’t remember which.

 

[New_Vegas]

At this point, whatever money you might "save" in one way or another is going to be negligible. You are going to be up to your eyeballs in debt, it's going to be very, very difficult to pay back this loan amount.

I just did some calculations. At the current interest rate of student loans around 7.5%, if you take out $130k per year you will owe roughly $625,090.80 in student loans when you graduate. The interest alone on that amount will be $46,881.81 per year. So you will have to pay roughly 50k each year just to break even, then everything you pay after that will start chipping away at the principle of the loan.

OP - to be honest, I would never do dentistry for that price.

 

[D1Bound]

At this point, whatever money you might "save" in one way or another is going to be negligible. You are going to be up to your eyeballs in debt, it's going to be very, very difficult to pay back this loan amount.

I just did some calculations. At the current interest rate of student loans around 7.5%, if you take out $130k per year you will owe roughly $625,090.80 in student loans when you graduate. The interest alone on that amount will be $46,881.81 per year. So you will have to pay roughly 50k each year just to break even, then everything you pay after that will start chipping away at the principle of the loan.

OP - to be honest, I would never do dentistry for that price.

May I once again suggest the van living option? Everyone wants trendy crossovers right now. No one wants mini vans. They’re cheap. A mattress and cooler will easily fit in the back.

 

[New_Vegas]

May I once again suggest the van living option? Everyone wants trendy crossovers right now. No one wants mini vans. They’re cheap. A mattress and cooler will easily fit in the back.

I wouldn't recommend this. Dental school in a vacuum is a very difficult experience that will require a good solid internet connection 24/7. The extra stress from living in a van would absolutely not be worth it. I'm not sure how much money it would even save you in the long run either. Most dental schools are in big cities... Where would you park the van? Would you be safe? Not a good idea imo.

 

[Ivy.ch]

We put 6 of us in a 3 bedroom apartment. We saved a ton of money and had the time of our lives.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Even saving 1000 or 1500 on rent would be pretty negligible in this case. The problem is the tuition and fees

 

[charlestweed]

Even saving 1000 or 1500 on rent would be pretty negligible in this case. The problem is the tuition and fees

It’s still a significant amount…..$50-70k in saving for the 4 years of dental school….or $100+k if you do 3 more years of postgrad residency. You won’t have to spent $600 every month to pay back the student loans for the next 10 years for every $50k that you don’t have to borrow. With that extra $600 per month in disposable income, I can lease myself a nice car.

 

[D1Bound]

We put 6 of us in a 3 bedroom apartment. We saved a ton of money and had the time of our lives.

That sounds like cruel and unusual torture

 

[New_Vegas]

It’s still a significant amount…..$50-70k in saving for the 4 years of dental school….or $100+k if you do 3 more years of postgrad residency. You won’t have to spent $600 every month to pay back the student loans for the next 10 years for every $50k that you don’t have to borrow.

Um... A lot of people in dental school who have multiple roommates are only paying like $500 per month in rent, even sometimes less. Even if someone was paying 1k a month for rent, 50k is not a lot considering this person is about to get themselves in ~630k of debt, and the interest alone on that amount will be 50k a year.

With that extra $600 per month in disposable income, I can lease myself a nice car.

Also- leasing a car is the very most expensive way to operate a motor vehicle. It's just dumb. I thought you said you were a Dave Ramsey fan... He completely eviscerates the idea of leasing cars.

 

[charlestweed]

Um... A lot of people in dental school who have multiple roommates are only paying like $500 per month in rent, even sometimes less. Even if someone was paying 1k a month for rent, 50k is not a lot considering this person is about to get themselves in ~630k of debt, and the interest alone on that amount will be 50k a year.

$50k is not a significant amount if you compare it to the total $500-600k loan amount. But it is still significant amount if you only make $120k/year as a new grad. If you only make that much, it will take you at least a year (maybe 2 years) to save $50k after you pay taxes, repay student loans, and pay for other living expenses. I’d rather live with roommates now so I wouldn’t have to spend $600 every month to repay the student loans for the next 10 years of my life.

$50k is not a significant amount if you work 6 days a wk and your income is $4-500k/year.

Also- leasing a car is the very most expensive way to operate a motor vehicle. It's just dumb. I thought you said you were a Dave Ramsey fan... He completely eviscerates the idea of leasing cars.

This is where I disagree with Dave Ramsey. If you like driving luxury German cars, which are known to be very unreliable and cost a lot to maintain/fix (when the warranty expires after 3 years or after 50k miles), then leasing is a better option. If you buy and then you sell these German cars (because they start giving you problems) within 3 years, you will lose more money than if you lease them. Car value depreciates faster than your monthly lease payment.

If you want to save money, buy a reliable Japanese car and keep it for more than 5 years. Oil change every 4-5 months is all you need. Tesla cars are also very reliable and worth buying.

 

[New_Vegas]

$50k is not a significant amount if you compare it to the total $500-600k loan amount. But it is still significant amount if you only make $120k/year as a new grad. If you only make that much, it will take you at least a year (maybe 2 years) to save $50k after you pay taxes, repay student loans, and pay for other living expenses. I’d rather live with roommates now so I won’t have to repay $600 every month in student loans for the next 10 years of my life.

$50k is not a significant amount if you work 6 days a wk and your income is $4-500k/year.

This is where I disagree with Dave Ramsey. If you like driving luxury German cars, which are known to be very unreliable and cost a lot to maintain/fix (when the warranty expires after 3 years or after 50k miles), then leasing is a better option. If you buy and then you sell these German cars (because they start giving you problems) within 3 years, you will lose more money than if you lease them. Car value depreciates faster than your monthly lease payment.

If you want to save money, buy a reliable Japanese car and keep it for more than 5 years. Oil change every 4-5 months is all you need. Tesla cars are also very reliable and worth buying.

Dude, it's been proven over and over again that leasing cars is literally the most expensive way to operate a motor vehicle. If you think you need to be driving a new luxury German car every 3 years, then that's a completely different problem.
Also Teslas are certainly not that reliable - ranked second last by consumer reports, and in my opinion definitely not worth buying (this is especially true when we have a competent president who doesn't make the gas prices go up to 7 dollars a gallon).

 

[charlestweed]

Dude, it's been proven over and over again that leasing cars is literally the most expensive way to operate a motor vehicle. If you think you need to be driving a new luxury German car every 3 years, then that's a completely different problem.
Also Teslas are certainly not that reliable - ranked second last by consumer reports, and in my opinion definitely not worth buying (this is especially true when we have a competent president who doesn't make the gas prices go up to 7 dollars a gallon).

Like I said before, if you like to keep the same car for more than 5 years, then buying is a better and cheaper option. For me, I can’t stand driving the same one for more than 3 years. It’s the guy thing. You only live once.

I’ve driven 3 Teslas and none of them has given me any problem. For the gasoline cars, you have to do oil changes every 3-4 months (for Japanese cars) or every 7-8 months (for German cars). With my busy work schedule, I am glad I don’t have to do this for my Teslas. The current Tesla has more than 50k miles on it and the only thing I’ve done so far was changing the tires. The Teslas’ brake pads last more than 100k miles….thanks to the regenerative braking technology.

 

[New_Vegas]

Like I said before, if you like to keep the same car for more than 5 years, then buying is a better and cheaper option. For me, I can’t stand driving the same one for more than 3 years. It’s the guy thing. You only live once.

I’ve driven 3 Teslas and none of them has given me any problem. For the gasoline cars, you have to do oil changes every 3-4 months (for Japanese cars) or every 7-8 months (for German cars). With my busy work schedule, I am glad I don’t have to do this for my Teslas. The current Tesla has more than 50k miles on it and the only thing I’ve done so far was changing the tires. The Teslas’ brake pads last more than 100k miles….thanks to the regenerative braking technology.

Not really a guy thing, that's a you thing. Not a very smart financial move though. Just thought I'd point that out on a thread about financial advice.

Also, your anecdotes about Teslas don't match up with what the empirical data says about them.

 

[charlestweed]

Yeah well your anecdotal evidence doesn't match up with what the empirical data say

Not really a guy thing, that's a you thing. Not a very smart financial move though. Just thought I'd point that out on a thread about financial advice.

Also, your anecdotes about Teslas don't match up with what the empirical data says about them.

Yeah, I don't recommend people with a lot of loans to spend money on cars the way that I do. Car is a depreciative item.

 

[AONLINE]

Some friends told me that Tesla is the only car that one can actually make some profit off of by selling used. The reason is because if one wants to order a new Tesla now they have to wait for a few months, whereas they can have the car immediately if they buy used. So people are willing to pay price of new for an used Tesla. Any truth to that?

 

[Ivy.ch]

Some friends told me that Tesla is the only car that one can actually make some profit off of by selling used. The reason is because if one wants to order a new Tesla now they have to wait for a few months, whereas they can have the car immediately if they buy used. So people are willing to pay price of new or an used Tesla. Any truth to that?

I’m not so sure. The battery wears down with time, unlike a tank of gasoline.

 

[Boofy]

Some friends told me that Tesla is the only car that one can actually make some profit off of by selling used. The reason is because if one wants to order a new Tesla now they have to wait for a few months, whereas they can have the car immediately if they buy used. So people are willing to pay price of new for an used Tesla. Any truth to that?

In some of the NW states many of the used cars have appreciated to the point that buying new for pickups, and some SUVs is $5000 more expensive or in the case of pickups, cheaper. Not sure if that has been the case in other parts of the country, but I just sold my 2017 Rav4 for 9k more than I paid for it 2 years ago.

 

[charlestweed]

Some friends told me that Tesla is the only car that one can actually make some profit off of by selling used. The reason is because if one wants to order a new Tesla now they have to wait for a few months, whereas they can have the car immediately if they buy used. So people are willing to pay price of new for an used Tesla. Any truth to that?

That’s true for both model S and X. If you order one now, it takes 8-12 months to get it. It’s much faster for the models 3 and Y.

For Teslas, it’s ok to buy used cars with high mileage because they don’t have the same type of mechanical wear and tear like the gasoline cars. A Tesla with 100k miles runs like a new car because both used and new Teslas constantly (almost on a monthly basis) get the same OTA software updates. Yes, the lithium battery does degrade over time but not by much….it only loses around 7-10 miles of the total initial 350 mile range after the first 50k miles. After 5-6 years, many Tesla owners claim they only lose around 15-20 miles, which is not bad at all.

One major down side of electric cars is range. For daily use, it’s no problem. You plug the car in every night and you wake up with a “full tank” of electricity…..250-300 miles are plenty for daily use. There were days I forgot to plug it in and I still had plenty of juice to drive to work (and back home) the next day. Tesla supercharger network makes long road trip possible but I must admit that the wait time to “refuel” an electric car is much longer than for gasoline car. You guys may not like electric cars now because the technology is still new. I remember years ago when digital photography first came out people said it would never replace the 35mm film photography. Now, the film photography almost extincts. Once you drive an electric car, it’s hard to go back to a gasoline car.

Mercedes recently jumped on the EV bandwagon with their new EQS class, which is an equivalence of their gasoline S-class. And this "car expert" said at the end of the video that he’d much rather buy this new electric EQS than the traditional gasoline S-class.

 

[New_Vegas]

That’s true for both model S and X. If you order one now, it takes 8-12 months to get it. It’s much faster for the models 3 and Y.

For Teslas, it’s ok to buy used cars with high mileage because they don’t have the same type of mechanical wear and tear like the gasoline cars. A Tesla with 100k miles runs like a new car because both used and new Teslas constantly (almost on a monthly basis) get the same OTA software updates. Yes, the lithium battery does degrade over time but not by much….it only loses around 7-10 miles of the total initial 350 mile range after the first 50k miles. After 5-6 years, many Tesla owners claim they only lose around 15-20 miles, which is not bad at all.

One major down side of electric cars is range. For daily use, it’s no problem. You plug the car in every night and you wake up with a “full tank” of electricity…..250-300 miles are plenty for daily use. There were days I forgot to plug it in and I still had plenty of juice to drive to work (and back home) the next day. Tesla supercharger network makes long road trip possible but I must admit that the wait time to “refuel” an electric car is much longer than for gasoline car. You guys may not like electric cars now because the technology is still new. I remember years ago when digital photography first came out people said it would never replace the 35mm film photography. Now, the film photography almost extincts. Once you drive an electric car, it’s hard to go back to a gasoline car.

Well this certainly isn't true based on the consumer reports. You sure seem to be drinking the Tesla kool-aid. Here's some links.

Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28​

Tesla makes some of the least reliable cars, Consumer Reports says. See which brands came out on top.​

Tesla is second-to-last in reliability as Consumer Reports says Elon Musk-led company has its 'fair share of problems'​

Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list​

Some quotes from the articles:

"According to J.D. Power, Tesla vehicles had an average of 176 mechanical faults per 100, compared to 121 for the industry"

"According to RepairPal, the average annual Tesla maintenance expense is $832. In comparison, all car models sold in the United States cost an average of $652 each year"

"there’s plenty of evidence showing that Tesla does have a quality problem. In fact, the brand was ranked the lowest of 32 brands in the 2020 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey."

"Among the concerns Consumer Reports had for the Tesla Model S, X and Y lines, according to CNBC, were issues with “heat pumps, air conditioning” and notoriously, misaligned panels. It’s also worth noting that Tesla’s Model X ranked dead-last among all cars for reliability, scoring a 5 out of 100."

 

[2TH MVR]

In the past I've leased many vehicles through the practice as a BUSINESS expense. I don't recommend leasing cars personally. @charlestweed can afford to lease and that's his reward for his efforts. It's a luxury that works for HIM, but is not ideal for others.
As for Tesla. Meh.

 

[charlestweed]

Well this certainly isn't true based on the consumer reports. You sure seem to be drinking the Tesla kool-aid. Here's some links.

Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28​

Tesla makes some of the least reliable cars, Consumer Reports says. See which brands came out on top.​

Tesla is second-to-last in reliability as Consumer Reports says Elon Musk-led company has its 'fair share of problems'​

Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list​

Some quotes from the articles:

"According to J.D. Power, Tesla vehicles had an average of 176 mechanical faults per 100, compared to 121 for the industry"

"According to RepairPal, the average annual Tesla maintenance expense is $832. In comparison, all car models sold in the United States cost an average of $652 each year"

"there’s plenty of evidence showing that Tesla does have a quality problem. In fact, the brand was ranked the lowest of 32 brands in the 2020 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey."

"Among the concerns Consumer Reports had for the Tesla Model S, X and Y lines, according to CNBC, were issues with “heat pumps, air conditioning” and notoriously, misaligned panels. It’s also worth noting that Tesla’s Model X ranked dead-last among all cars for reliability, scoring a 5 out of 100."

Despite all these negative reports, a lot of people still want to buy Tesla. Virtually every house in my block has a Tesla. Tesla has a lot of buyers in Canada, Europe, and China. That’s why it takes a long time to order them. If you look at the used car websites (cars.com, carguru.com etc), the used 2017-2020 Tesla model S’s with a large 100KW battery pack (aka long range model) are selling for $70-80k. The same model year German cars that had the same original MRSP values are selling for much less.

I am a Tesla fan but my next new car won’t be a Tesla because I am bored of driving the same model car (since 2016). Last year, Tesla completely redesigned the interior of their models S and X but they retain the same boring exterior body. I want something new. BMW will release their new i7 electric car. I like the new Mercedes EQS a lot but I still want to wait for them to iron out the kinks since this is their first fully electric model.

Currently, Tesla is still the electric car king in term of price, range, and practicality (very strong supercharging network). The competing electric cars either cost too much or have less range.

 

[charlestweed]

Japanese cars tend to keep their value better. I bought a HONDA CRV hybrid in 2020 and sold it in 2022. Due to the supply chain issue, I actually drove the vehicle for free for 2 years and just paid for gas and insurance.

It’s not completely free. You sold your car at higher price but when you buy another new car (to replace the car that you sold) you will also have to pay a higher price. I know. Inflation sucks. Supply chain issue sucks.

Yes, Japanese cars are very reliable.

 

[2TH MVR]

Speaking of leases...can I lease a lamborghini huracan under my office?

Good question. I've leased mostly 911 Turbos in the past. My acct told me that your income has to be commensurate to the value of the lease car.

 

[charlestweed]

In the past I've leased many vehicles through the practice as a BUSINESS expense. I don't recommend leasing cars personally. @charlestweed can afford to lease and that's his reward for his efforts. It's a luxury that works for HIM, but is not ideal for others.
As for Tesla. Meh.

Yeah, I reward myself for working more days than my colleagues. I work 3 Saturdays a month. The salary for working one Saturday is more than enough to cover the monthly lease payment for a $120-150k car. And the salary for working the other 2 saturdays is an extra for me to do whatever I want with it. Some people like to travel around the world 3-4 times a year. I hate flying…..taking vacation once or twice a year is more than enough for me….I’d rather spend $$$ on cars, which I can enjoy every day.

If you have doubt about the reliability of the car, drive under 15k miles per year, like to change cars every 2-3 years, and have a steady flow of income, then leasing is actually a cheaper option. It’s usually free for most repairs if the car is still within the warranty period.

If you are a new grad dentist and have a lot of student loans, I strongly suggest staying with the same used reliable car for as long as possible. Work hard and continue to live a students for at least 3 years to cut down the debt in half (or more).

Ok. It's lunch time now for me.....It's time for me to take a nap in my Tesla.

 

[D1Bound]

Yeah, I reward myself for working more days than my colleagues. I work 3 Saturdays a month. The salary for working one Saturday is more than enough to cover the monthly lease payment for a $120-150k car. And the salary for working the other 2 saturdays is an extra for me to do whatever I want with it. Some people like to travel around the world 3-4 times a year. I hate flying…..taking vacation once or twice a year is more than enough for me….I’d rather spend $$$ on cars, which I can enjoy every day.

If you have doubt about the reliability of the car, drive under 15k miles per year, like to change cars every 2-3 years, and have a steady flow of income, then leasing is actually a cheaper option. It’s usually free for most repairs if the car is still within the warranty period.

If you are a new grad dentist and have a lot of student loans, I strongly suggest staying with the same used reliable car for as long as possible. Work hard and continue to live a students for at least 3 years to cut down the debt in half (or more).

Ok. It's lunch time now for me.....It's time for me to take a nap in my Tesla.

If a student has no loans when should they upgrade in car?

 

[charlestweed]

If a student has no loans when should they upgrade in car?

Right away in my case. I graduated on Friday. I sold my used Honda Civic for $400 and flew back to CA that same night. I slept for a couple of hours. Then, I started my first job the next Saturday morning. And on Sunday, I picked up a used 3-year-old 7 series BMW that I ordered online a week prior to my graduation. I worked 6 days/wk right after graduation. I only owed $150k (ortho and DDS loans combined). My wife owed $308k but at that time, we were still boyfriend and girlfriend.

If you work fewer than 5 days a week, I don’t recommend doing like what I did…even if you don’t have have any student loan.

 

[Chief's Pineapple]

That sounds like cruel and unusual torture

It's all relative. When we moved to the US, we moved into a 2-bedroom apartment. The "we" were 3 toddlers, a teenager, the parents, and a grandparent. Sounds bad on paper, but things worked out. As long as one remembers where they came from, it's easier to make compromises and also appreciate things in a better sense.

 

[Stanelz]

thats a ton of money to go to school. If I had to give any advice it would be to find living as cheap as possible. Dont be like your classmates that looks for the most convenient things and spend whatever. I lived super cheap and budgeted every month for things like groceries and such and I drove for door dash to cover a lot of my misc expenses. Maybe do that when you can, especially in D3/D4. Graduate with a little debt as possible!!

 

[New_Vegas]

If a student has no loans when should they upgrade in car?

Cars are a big waste of money.

As long as your car works well, you probably shouldn't upgrade in car until you are pretty much out of debt or almost out of debt.
Dave Ramsey doesn't recommend buying a brand new car until your net worth is over a million dollars. For dental students graduating from these expensive schools, I'm afraid for some of them who don't manage money well, that may be never lol.
Other than that, he recommends paying cash for a vehicle, and buying a car that's a few years old. The value of the car should be less than half of your annual salary.

 

[2thDoc11]

Cars are a big waste of money.

As long as your car works well, you probably shouldn't upgrade in car until you are pretty much out of debt or almost out of debt.
Dave Ramsey doesn't recommend buying a brand new car until your net worth is over a million dollars. For dental students graduating from these expensive schools, I'm afraid for some of them who don't manage money well, that may be never lol.
Other than that, he recommends paying cash for a vehicle, and buying a car that's a few years old. The value of the car should be less than half of your annual salary.

Unless you’re having to constantly pay for repairs on your current vehicle. That can get expensive pretty quick!

 

[New_Vegas]

Unless you’re having to constantly pay for repairs on your current vehicle. That can get expensive pretty quick!

Yeah, that's why I said as long as your car works well. If it's constantly breaking down, you should probably replace it with like a $10k-$15k car and pay cash. But probably not with a more expensive car unless out of debt.

 

[charlestweed]

Unless you’re having to constantly pay for repairs on your current vehicle. That can get expensive pretty quick!

It was a big mistake when I bought a used 3 yo BMW that I mentioned on post # 37. Within a year of onwership, the check engine light came on 3-4 times. And I had to pay a lot of each of the repairs. I ended up trading it in and took a huge loss (the car had an up side down value). I leased a brand new BMW 745Li after this one….this car also required me to bring it into a shop for repairs very often but at least I didn’t have to pay for any of the repairs because it was within the warranty period. To avoid costly repairs, I only go with short term leases (2-3 years) and return the cars before their warranties expire.

To many, cars are a big waste of money. But to me, they are not. To me, cars are like my second house. I spend at least 2-3 hours in my car every day…..30-45 minutes to commute each way + another 1-1.5 hours taking a nap/watching youtube videos/reading sdn posts in it during lunch. Therefore, I am ok with spending $1200-1500 every month to lease cars and change them every 2-3 years. To me, taking vacations is a big waste of money. The reason I take vacations every year is I want to make my wife and kids happy. I hate airport food…..I hate flying. A week long vacation for a family of 4 easily costs me around $12k-15k (or $1k a month). I’d rather use that amount to lease cars, which I can enjoy every day.

 

[Ivy.ch]

If a student has no loans when should they upgrade in car?

Upgrade? As a student? Dude, buy some index funds. if you’re really looking to blow money, spend it on a girl or a vacation.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If a student has no loans (assuming they aren’t on some type of scholarship), then they probably have some type of trust fund. I say buy the nice car and have some fun in that case

 

[2TH MVR]

Yeah, that's why I said as long as your car works well. If it's constantly breaking down, you should probably replace it with like a $10k-$15k car and pay cash. But probably not with a more expensive car unless out of debt.

Mostly agree. But what about new Specialists? If you are private practice bound ..... you'll be spending hours and hours networking with possible referral dentists. Lunches and other time consuming tasks. Thing is ..... most of the time you'll be picking up your new, possible referral source in your CAR. What message does it send if you show up in a POS (although paid for lol).

How about driving to a CE course and parking next to all the other dentists? A POS just doesn't send the right message if you are a well known, reputable Specialist.

Again. I mostly leased nice cars (Porsches) through my practices with a substantial business write-off. It was worth it. Showed the referring dentists that my practice was doing well. And I got to drive nice cars. Win-win.

Newly graduated, poor, debt laden general dentist. Yeah. Drive a dependable POS until you can afford a better car.

Funny. I work Corporate now. No need to impress anyone. I drive a sub-compact because it is economical. Nice cars at home in the garage for personal use.

 

[PerioDont]

Mostly agree. But what about new Specialists? If you are private practice bound ..... you'll be spending hours and hours networking with possible referral dentists. Lunches and other time consuming tasks. Thing is ..... most of the time you'll be picking up your new, possible referral source in your CAR. What message does it send if you show up in a POS (although paid for lol).

How about driving to a CE course and parking next to all the other dentists? A POS just doesn't send the right message if you are a well known, reputable Specialist.

Again. I mostly leased nice cars (Porsches) through my practices with a substantial business write-off. It was worth it. Showed the referring dentists that my practice was doing well. And I got to drive nice cars. Win-win.

Newly graduated, poor, debt laden general dentist. Yeah. Drive a dependable POS until you can afford a better car.

Funny. I work Corporate now. No need to impress anyone. I drive a sub-compact because it is economical. Nice cars at home in the garage for personal use.

Are you actually picking up people from their office for networking lunches? Interesting.

I am curious how long it takes to be what you consider a well-known reputable specialist in your city.

Most new grad orthos, perio, and endos are tuition based meaning they haven’t made any money for a few years. They probably shouldn’t be upgrading anything till they have some savings set up

 

[New_Vegas]

Mostly agree. But what about new Specialists? If you are private practice bound ..... you'll be spending hours and hours networking with possible referral dentists. Lunches and other time consuming tasks. Thing is ..... most of the time you'll be picking up your new, possible referral source in your CAR. What message does it send if you show up in a POS (although paid for lol).

How about driving to a CE course and parking next to all the other dentists? A POS just doesn't send the right message if you are a well known, reputable Specialist.

Again. I mostly leased nice cars (Porsches) through my practices with a substantial business write-off. It was worth it. Showed the referring dentists that my practice was doing well. And I got to drive nice cars. Win-win.

Newly graduated, poor, debt laden general dentist. Yeah. Drive a dependable POS until you can afford a better car.

Funny. I work Corporate now. No need to impress anyone. I drive a sub-compact because it is economical. Nice cars at home in the garage for personal use.

I don't give a crap. If someone sees me driving an old car, they will probably know I'm in debt lol. I do not care even in the slightest of putting off a wealthy vibe. A nice car isn't an indication that somebody's practice is well off. It's an indication that they probably spent too much money on a car. And when you are a few hundred thousand in debt, you are not rich, you are broke - so you should act like it.

Besides, a 10-15k car looks nice. My friend bought a 2017 Jetta for like $13k. That's a nice car.

 

[PerioDont]

I don't give a crap. If someone sees me driving an old car, they will probably know I'm in debt lol. I do not care even in the slightest of putting off a wealthy vibe. A nice car isn't an indication that somebody's practice is well off. It's an indication that they probably spent too much money on a car. And when you are a few hundred thousand in debt, you are not rich, you are broke - so you should act like it.

Besides, a 10-15k car looks nice. My friend bought a 2017 Jetta for like $13k. That's a nice car.

I agree. Are general dentist referring based on what cars people drive anyways? I wouldn’t think so.

I’m guessing it has a lot more to do with the personality and how you treat patients as well as communicate with the GP

 

[charlestweed]

I have spent a lot of money on cars because I spend a significant amount of time in my car every day. Because my kids are in it, it has to have a smooth quiet ride...it has to be a big car....it has to have all the top notch safety features (that's why I love German cars even though they are not as reliable as Japanese cars). Because the traffic in CA is very bad during peak hours and I work 5 days a wk, the car has to have a self driving (autopilot) feature, which helps make the daily commute less stressful.

If you work hard to maintain a nice steady income flow and can comfortably pay down the student loan debt (using IBR to make the monthly repayment amount smaller does not count as a good debt management), I don't see why you can't reward yourself a nice car....or something that you like. That's your reward for working harder than your colleagues. Buy a less expensive used car, if you think having a nice car is not important to you or if chose to work less days than your colleagues.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

I don't give a crap. If someone sees me driving an old car, they will probably know I'm in debt lol. I do not care even in the slightest of putting off a wealthy vibe. A nice car isn't an indication that somebody's practice is well off. It's an indication that they probably spent too much money on a car. And when you are a few hundred thousand in debt, you are not rich, you are broke - so you should act like it.

Besides, a 10-15k car looks nice. My friend bought a 2017 Jetta for like $13k. That's a nice car.

Is it OK if I still enjoy driving my 11 y/o Subie like it's brand new? Will people look down on me? We usually have the least impressive cars in my neighborhood other than the time we bought a brand new Lexus 13 yrs ago. Too bad I never received any money from Subaru. Most of my neighbors bought one, two, and many more Subies after seeing me drive home uphill on the ice. Too bad many Jettas will become a money pit as soon as the warrantee expires.

 

[pubhealthdent]

Is it OK if I still enjoy driving my 11 y/o Subie like it's brand new? Will people look down on me? We usually have the least impressive cars in my neighborhood other than the time we bought a brand new Lexus 13 yrs ago. Too bad I never received any money from Subaru. Most of my neighbors bought one, two, and many more Subies after seeing me drive home uphill on the ice. Too bad many Jettas will become a money pit as soon as the warrantee expires.

Hey another subaru owner! After the first northern midwest winter driving one, not sure I'll ever buy any other car. Luxury brands don't impress me at all. I'll drive my subaru til it dies then go buy another