First Aid 315- Confused

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HelpPleaseMD

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In the first aid errata's page they changed epinephrine and norepinephrine to activating adenylate cyclase on pancreatic beta cells to secrete insulin.

Is that right? It would make more sense to me that epinephrine / norepi would increase glucagon secretion (and possibly secondarily increase insulin through glucagon?)

Or is this picture just referring to the B agonist affect of insulin completely ignoring the a2 effectS?

Help
 
In the first aid errata's page they changed epinephrine and norepinephrine to activating adenylate cyclase on pancreatic beta cells to secrete insulin.

Is that right? It would make more sense to me that epinephrine / norepi would increase glucagon secretion (and possibly secondarily increase insulin through glucagon?)

Or is this picture just referring to the B agonist affect of insulin completely ignoring the a2 effectS?

Help

Beta-2 effects are known to increase insulin release, and E/NE both have beta-2 function (although NE << E).

Beta-2 functions via a G-alpha-s pathway, which will augment intracellular [Ca2+], thereby inducing insulin release. As far as alpha-2 is concerned, that's G-alpha-i, not -s, so that would prevent calcium influx.

You're also not wrong that sympathetic stimulation would induce glucagon release, but FA is merely pointing out that glucagon is known, specifically, to also be a direct simulator of insulin release (whereas insulin does not potentiate glucagon release).
 
Beta-2 effects are known to increase insulin release, and E/NE both have beta-2 function (although NE << E).

Beta-2 functions via a G-alpha-s pathway, which will augment intracellular [Ca2+], thereby inducing insulin release. As far as alpha-2 is concerned, that's G-alpha-i, not -s, so that would prevent calcium influx.

You're also not wrong that sympathetic stimulation would induce glucagon release, but FA is merely pointing out that glucagon is known, specifically, to also be a direct simulator of insulin release (whereas insulin does not potentiate glucagon release).

Beta2 receptors act through a G sub S pathway which activates adenylate cyclase and increases intracellular cAMP and protein kinase A. I don't think it works through Calcium. Gq does though.

Alpha2 receptors are Gi coupled and they decreased cAMP so they decrease insulin secretion. This is why you don't give clonidine to a diabetic.
 
In the first aid errata's page they changed epinephrine and norepinephrine to activating adenylate cyclase on pancreatic beta cells to secrete insulin.

Is that right? It would make more sense to me that epinephrine / norepi would increase glucagon secretion (and possibly secondarily increase insulin through glucagon?)

Or is this picture just referring to the B agonist affect of insulin completely ignoring the a2 effectS?

Help
I am actually alittle confused as well. FA says Beta- agonists stimulate insulin release while alpha-agonists inhibit insulin release...now they don't really specify alpha1/2 or beta 1/2...do all types effect insulin release or just specific ones?

For example, it wouldn't make sense for alpha 1 to inhibit insulin, since activating alpha1 --> Gq --> increase Ca2+
Alpha2 --> Gi --> decrease cAMP
Beta1&2 --> Gs--> increase cAMP (FA doesn't mention the effect of cAMP on insulin release, so we just assume that increase cAMP --> increase insulin secretion??? assuming this will be consistent with alpha2 effects)

Clarification would be nice...it would be nice to know the "why" behind it, rather than just memorize lol
 
I am actually alittle confused as well. FA says Beta- agonists stimulate insulin release while alpha-agonists inhibit insulin release...now they don't really specify alpha1/2 or beta 1/2...do all types effect insulin release or just specific ones?

For example, it wouldn't make sense for alpha 1 to inhibit insulin, since activating alpha1 --> Gq --> increase Ca2+
Alpha2 --> Gi --> decrease cAMP
Beta1&2 --> Gs--> increase cAMP (FA doesn't mention the effect of cAMP on insulin release, so we just assume that increase cAMP --> increase insulin secretion??? assuming this will be consistent with alpha2 effects)

Clarification would be nice...it would be nice to know the "why" behind it, rather than just memorize lol

Ok, you need to remember that the sensitivity of the adrenergic receptors are not equal. That is to say, beta receptors are more sensitive than alpha receptors (if you want the full spectrum it goes, from increasing to decreasing sensitivity, D receptors > B receptors > alpha receptors). Further, you have to also recall that B2 receptors, the one that works on the pancreas, is not innervated. Consequently Epinephrine is the main natural agonist. In contrast, the alpha2 receptors on the pancreas are innervated.

So, when I am running from a murderous fiend my S-ANS leads to both NE activation but ALSO stimulates my adrenals to release Epinephrine into my blood stream. This will result predominately in activation of my Liver to raise blood glucose so that my skeletal muscles, heart, brain, etc can obtain glucose while I am trying to survive. However, what good is glucose floating around in my blood? Well, it is ok for the insulin-independent uptake of glucose, but remember, my skeletal muscles need glucose too! and they will burn through their glycogen stores very quickly. Consequently, the high levels of Epinephrine in the bloodstream will also leads to stimulation of B2 receptors on the pancreas to allow for a slight increase in insulin so that I can make use of all the glucose I produce from my liver.

As a general point, ALL stress hormones (Cortisol, Epinephrine, Glucagon) must raise insulin levels to some extent, otherwise skeletal muscle would be unable to utilize the fruits of the liver's labor.

As you point out, alpha1 stimulation is nonsense if it is going to oppose insulin release; therefore, your intuition is correct: it is alpha2 stimulation that tends to reduce the release of insulin. However, we said that B receptors are more sensitive than alpha receptors; therefore, under what circumstance would this be important? Alpha2-agonists are used in the management of mild HTN (think Clonidine or methyldopa for pregnancy). However, if we use these drugs in a Diabetic, then we would expect an exacerbation since we will not only decrease their BP (which we want to do) but we will also further reduce their insulin levels.

Final consideration:
Alpha1 receptors - Think classic autonomic effects on vessels, GU, Eye, sex organs etc
Alpha2 receptors - Prejunctional terminals are KEY, but also that wrinkle about the pancreas as well as platelets (so, with the example above, expect alpha2 agonists to not be used in patients with increase clot risk)

B1 receptors - Anything to do with Heart (Pacemaker, muscle) AND kidney
B2 receptors - Essentially the opposite of NE effects since in the fight/flight response if NE dominated the system there would be unrestricted vasoconstiction (via alpha1) which would ultimately lock up the blood supply resulting in decrease BF to heart, muscle, brain etc; therefore, Epinephrine opposes alpha1 in these situations so I can get away from murderous people/things
 
Ok, you need to remember that the sensitivity of the adrenergic receptors are not equal. That is to say, beta receptors are more sensitive than alpha receptors (if you want the full spectrum it goes, from increasing to decreasing sensitivity, D receptors > B receptors > alpha receptors). Further, you have to also recall that B2 receptors, the one that works on the pancreas, is not innervated. Consequently Epinephrine is the main natural agonist. In contrast, the alpha2 receptors on the pancreas are innervated.

So, when I am running from a murderous fiend my S-ANS leads to both NE activation but ALSO stimulates my adrenals to release Epinephrine into my blood stream. This will result predominately in activation of my Liver to raise blood glucose so that my skeletal muscles, heart, brain, etc can obtain glucose while I am trying to survive. However, what good is glucose floating around in my blood? Well, it is ok for the insulin-independent uptake of glucose, but remember, my skeletal muscles need glucose too! and they will burn through their glycogen stores very quickly. Consequently, the high levels of Epinephrine in the bloodstream will also leads to stimulation of B2 receptors on the pancreas to allow for a slight increase in insulin so that I can make use of all the glucose I produce from my liver.

As a general point, ALL stress hormones (Cortisol, Epinephrine, Glucagon) must raise insulin levels to some extent, otherwise skeletal muscle would be unable to utilize the fruits of the liver's labor.

As you point out, alpha1 stimulation is nonsense if it is going to oppose insulin release; therefore, your intuition is correct: it is alpha2 stimulation that tends to reduce the release of insulin. However, we said that B receptors are more sensitive than alpha receptors; therefore, under what circumstance would this be important? Alpha2-agonists are used in the management of mild HTN (think Clonidine or methyldopa for pregnancy). However, if we use these drugs in a Diabetic, then we would expect an exacerbation since we will not only decrease their BP (which we want to do) but we will also further reduce their insulin levels.

Final consideration:
Alpha1 receptors - Think classic autonomic effects on vessels, GU, Eye, sex organs etc
Alpha2 receptors - Prejunctional terminals are KEY, but also that wrinkle about the pancreas as well as platelets (so, with the example above, expect alpha2 agonists to not be used in patients with increase clot risk)

B1 receptors - Anything to do with Heart (Pacemaker, muscle) AND kidney
B2 receptors - Essentially the opposite of NE effects since in the fight/flight response if NE dominated the system there would be unrestricted vasoconstiction (via alpha1) which would ultimately lock up the blood supply resulting in decrease BF to heart, muscle, brain etc; therefore, Epinephrine opposes alpha1 in these situations so I can get away from murderous people/things

Great post. So as a summary:

a1/b1 = no effect on pancreas
a2 = decrease insulin release
b2 = increase insulin release

And this is why you avoid a2 agonists or non-selective b-blockers in diabetics. Is this right?

As a side question, FA errata says GH/cortisol increase insulin. Is this through a direct effect on the pancreas? Or is it because they block the effects of insulin (i.e. cause insulin resistance), which stimulates more insulin release? Thanks
 
Great post. So as a summary:

a1/b1 = no effect on pancreas
a2 = decrease insulin release
b2 = increase insulin release

And this is why you avoid a2 agonists or non-selective b-blockers in diabetics. Is this right?

As a side question, FA errata says GH/cortisol increase insulin. Is this through a direct effect on the pancreas? Or is it because they block the effects of insulin (i.e. cause insulin resistance), which stimulates more insulin release? Thanks

Not that I have anything to add but FA's errata states that cortisol decreases insulin
 
Cortisol does indeed increase insulin resistance, which is why it's considered diabetogenic. On the wards you'll constantly see people on glucocorticoids with glucose levels all screwed up.

As for why insulin is actually lower, rather than higher (as logic would dictate it should be in insulin resistance), this seems multifaceted:

"It has been shown previously in in vitro studies that the decreased insulin release caused by dexamethasone in pancreatic islets is associated with a decreased GLUT-2 protein stability (10) and an increase in glucose-6-phosphatase activity (31), glucose cycling (32), neuropeptide Y expression (33), and a2-adrenergic receptor expression (34). Thus, there are multiple genes involved in glucose signaling in the b cell that could mediate the inhibitory effect of glucocorticoids on insulin release in vivo."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC508401/pdf/1002094.pdf
 
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We can make some associations with cortisol and its effect on insulin resistance. For instance, we know Cortisol, being a steroid hormone, acts directly on a specific response element (read TF), and one of the many effects is actually upregulation of a key enzyme in gluconeogenesis: PEPCK. So, imagine I am on some glucocorticoid, this will cause hyperglycemia and the initial response will be for insulin to deal with this elevated glucose. Overtime, chronic use of glucocorticoids will generate an environment of hyperglycemia that is considered the norm; so, the insulin response decreases and now there is actually no release of insulin when I am administered my next dose of glucocorticoids. This has been the easiest way for me to rationalize the effect, but as AndyRSC noted with the article referenced, it is most likely due to a vast interaction of factors.
 
I did not have a problem with anything that was said except that I thought NE does not have Beta-2 activity and therefore will primarily inhibit insulin release due to alpha 2 activity.

That is right, beta-2 receptors do not respond to NE but they do respond to E
 
FA errata says norepinephrine stimulates adenylate cyclase in Beta islet cell to stimulate insulin release.

I read the above discussion but none explains how. Norepinephrine has no Beta2 agonist activity.

So, how?
 
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