Hi. I know both schools have their pros and cons but i was wondering if there's any specific reason to choose one over the other. Any advice is appreciated.
Flinders vs queensland
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Compare cost
Compare international numbers-- UQ has a lot of Americans and Canadians in their international cohort which leads to more support both from faculty and co-students in terms of setting up away rotations, board study, etc. I personally think because of this reason UQ would be the best option for you if you were American or Canadian.
Compare Adelaide vs Brisbane. Where would you rather live for 4 years (Assuming you aren't applying for UQ-O) ?
What state is it easier to get internship once you graduate if you want to stay in Oz?
All of us have only attended one medical school in our lives (and on this forum it is mostly UQ) so its hard to give direct comparisons. Hopefully you can find some Flinders alumni to talk to. My understanding is that Flinders is also an excellent medical program.
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Makes no difference in the long run. To be honest. Australia's a small country.
Intern year = 1 year. That's a drop in the bucket. There's bottleneck stress everywhere in the Australian 'residency' pipeline. [N.B. i'm not referring to very junior resident years or JHO years - no one cares - I'm referring to advanced training or fellowship]
If you want an Australian internship, most likely you'll still have to go rural and it will be in a hospital you've never worked in before and in a region you'll be unfamiliar with.
Also, what is your background?
With the suggestion for UQ - bear in mind the bias that's been discussed. Mcat taker is from UQ and is north american. we can't compare schools for you having only attended one.
Flinders has a mostly singaporean/malaysian international cohort, which is probably more helpful if you're Singaporean or Malaysian.
Otherwise..
Australia's a small country.
We're not comparing Harvard to little known schools in rural Wyoming for instance. Compared to the UK or the US, there's no dramatic differences between Australian schools within Australian. Particularly between metropolitan ones. Same access to research and association with tertiary hospitals if you're wanting access to subspecialties.
Rural medical schools are excellent but in different ways - their focus is on earlier upskilling in practical skills and generalist training to prepare you for rural medicine. Less emphasis on subspecialty exposure.
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I think you will find this is changing in Australia, there is a rapidly growing shortage of residents and interns which has flow on effects. Workforce projections show that by 2025 registrars/fellows and consultant positions will be undersubscribed/filled -- not just GP. Essentially the opposite problem we were anticipating.
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Only ~50% of Oceania/Pacific Island IMGs from Canada are able to match into Canadian residencies after graduation. Good luck!
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More specifically, it's recently been 60% for Australian grads.
Matching back to Residency from Australia to Canada
Matching back to Residency from Australia to Canada
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I'd like to see where you are getting this from? You don't need to be a genius to realise increase in medical graduates + no increase in postgraduate training positions = bottleneck and oversaturation for specialist training programs
OP, if you are thinking of settling in Australia try Victorian medical schools (UMelb, Monash, Deakin) - VIC is the only state to put international students studying in the state ahead of local students studying interstate during internship allocation. Correct me if I am wrong
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This is 2018 data: https://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/2018-carms-forum.pdf
It's 53%, not 60%. Who wants to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coin flip's chance of becoming a physician in their home country? It's a reckless decision, honestly.
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This information comes from workforce planning documentation. I'll see if I can release one of the documents. The situation as you described it is not accurate, postgraduate training positions have increased -- and not just in GP land. Here's a little tidbit. We can't attract doctors from the UK as well, and if you work in Australia you will be acutely aware of the amount of locum shifts available, for both RMO/HMO, Registrars and Consultants. Even inner city hospitals are running on fumes at times.
These problems were not anticipated at a national level; in fact the vast increase in medical graduate numbers over the ten years from 2005-2015 had created concern about the “tsunami” of doctors that we would not be able to absorb within the system. There was a tripling of the national medical graduate output from 1320 in 2005, to 3055 in 2015 (Source: Medical Deans of Australia and New Zealand), so this was not an unreasonable assumption and led to a major emphasis on creation of more vocational training positions.
The streamlining of progress to vocational training, and the successful increase in vocational training roles have addressed concerns about where the junior doctors would move to advance their training, but has created a paradox in fueling a demand for more graduates. We have not had a surplus of RMOs unable to advance in their training, and we have needed to continue to import doctors from overseas.
That is, the continued increase in demand for RMOs and Registrars (this term will be used collectively for the Industrial classifications of Principal House Officers and Registrars) has outstripped the increase in supply of interns coming in to feed the growing demand, and the growth in intern numbers has now effectively ceased whilst there is no reason to believe that the growth in demand for RMOs and Registrars will abate, given the continued growth in service demand.
How bad will the situation get?
However, if we have another “failed” recruitment from the UK for the second intake in 2018, we will likely see increasing impact from July 2018, and a likely shortfall in RMOs from 2019, which will increase year on year if the organic growth in demand for this group is maintained. This will start to flow through to the Registrar and PHO ranks as early as 2020/2021. A logical flow would then see stagnation in General Practitioner numbers from 2024, and specialist numbers, timing dependent on the specific training in different Colleges, from approximately 2025.
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My memory, which is not infallible, is that data was more granular in previous years, e.g., showing Australia-specific success at 61% two years ago, as per the reference I posted (which source doc seems to have since been taken down by CARMS), whereas this year the format for the data is different, showing specific success rates only by region (Oceania+Pacific Islands at 53%, which would be expected to be lower than for Australia), while the map on p. 45 gives only a color band (50-75%) for Australia in particular (note that Australia and Ireland have the highest acceptance rates among countries with more than 1-2 grads), for a stable IMG quota, number of overall IMG registrants, and IMG acceptance rates since 2015 (p 13-14, 16).
But to answer your question...many want to because it's not a 'coin flip' when the outcome is largely up to the individual. Calling such a decision 'reckless' is rather arrogant, particularly for someone who has not gone through med school. It's like saying why go to med school to be a [whatever specialist] when half the grads in Canada will be generalists, and the odds of, say, getting derm, ophthal, ED, etc is not better than ~50%?
The decision calculus to go to med school overseas will reflect a student's confidence/determination, any sense of romanticism (in the classic sense), and attitude on combined/relative odds of returning versus staying. On a strictly relative numerical basis -- having decided to go overseas and not having strong preference on where -- Australia would be the 'best' choice since the combined odds of continued training are far higher than for Ireland. I personally chose Australia over the US (and any other region in the world) after considering the experience would be worth the money that I had saved from a previous career, and the (yes, romantic) attitude that life is an adventure and does not end just because plans may change. And change they do, for a myriad of reasons, many within our control and many not.
Might I ask...are you indeed in the Pacific Ocean, and where will you be going to medical school?
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Interesting information, this is the first time I've come across such a thing, but good to know another perspective. Thanks
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I'm also considering applying to Australian MD as an international student. I have no preference on where to live/study. I'm just concerned that after graduation I won't be able to get an internship and complete subsequent trainings to actually become a doctor. Honestly my goal is to become a doctor so rural vs. urban medicine is not a huge issue for me (at this point, to my best knowledge haha).
Any helpful comments?
Any helpful comments?
