Florida Governor wants to limit private-owned pharmacies dispensing power

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histopath

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The bill HB7095 will essentially prevent non-chain/independently owned pharmacies from dispensing CII medications. Here is the bill in it's entirety:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/7095/Analyses/ZMAJgpqgDQODWkBZCMukNhzvPD8=%7C7/Public/Bills/7000-7099/7095/Analysis/h7095c.APC.PDF

The impact this bill will have in the industry in Florida will be profound as many here know. It will make it difficult for independent pharmacies to be able to hold onto current patients and get new patients. This will cause pharmacies to shut down and create a monopoly, possibly eliminating 14,000 jobs.

The bill will also impact patient care by limiting the ability to monitor patient's profiles. The bill will contribute to poly-pharmacy, making it impossible for the pharmacist to prevent drug-drug interactions.

There is a petition on-line against this bill for anyone wanting to get involved at:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/florida-house-bill-7095-would-put-your-local-pharmacy-out-of-business/
You can sign the petition regardless of what state you live in. However, if you live in Florida and want to get more involved, you can e-mail your representative to not support this bill.
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When I went to a FL BOP in Aug. one of the topics that came up was an online database to track CII fills in the state of FL with the idea that it could help cut down on pill mills. I don't think it ever came to light.

One of the board members mentioned that if "we" didn't get ahead of this problem, Tallahassee would and that we wouldn't like the results when they did. Sounds like someone should be a physic, not a pharmacist. I don't support the bill, but I am not surprised that law makers are trying to solve a very real problem that we have.

Is it even legal to restrict commercial trade to chains? Seems like we should have laws to prevent that sort of thing.
 
We are living in the age of corrupted government. This law violates the U.S Constitution Freedom of Speech because it prevents one from carrying one action, and allow others not to do the same. There is not basis for this discrimination.
 
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5minutes said:
We are living in the age of corrupted government. This law violates the U.S Constitution Freedom of Speech because it prevents one from carrying one action, and allow others not to do the same. There is not basis for this discrimination.
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what the f*ck wholly unrelated response is this?
 
owlegrad said:
When I went to a FL BOP in Aug. one of the topics that came up was an online database to track CII fills in the state of FL with the idea that it could help cut down on pill mills. I don't think it ever came to light.

One of the board members mentioned that if "we" didn't get ahead of this problem, Tallahassee would and that we wouldn't like the results when they did. Sounds like someone should be a physic, not a pharmacist. I don't support the bill, but I am not surprised that law makers are trying to solve a very real problem that we have.

Is it even legal to restrict commercial trade to chains? Seems like we should have laws to prevent that sort of thing.
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It's funny that you mention the Pill Mill Database bill, the Governor, Rick Scott is against the Pill Mill Database. The database has already been established and running by one University in Florida and would have cost the tax-payers a nominal amount. Law enforcement would be the ones in charge of monitoring it. The Governor did not give any reasoning for being against the bill, but he said that he did not want it in Florida.

The other issue that the HB7095 bill has is that it directly benefits Governor Scott's pockets. He owns a substantial stake in chain pharmacies and also owned up until the election a health organization called Solantic. He has signed over his company, Solantic to his wife to avoid a conflict-of-interest.
 
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histopath said:
It's funny that you mention the Pill Mill Database bill, the Governor, Rick Scott is against the Pill Mill Database. The database has already been established and running by one University in Florida and would have cost the tax-payers a nominal amount. Law enforcement would be the ones in charge of monitoring it. The Governor did not give any reasoning for being against the bill, but he said that he did not want it in Florida.

The other issue that the HB7095 bill has is that it directly benefits Governor Scott's pockets. He owns a substantial stake in chain pharmacies and also owned up until the election a health organization called Solantic. He has signed over his company, Solantic to his wife to avoid a conflict-of-interest.
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This Bill is Unfair and discriminates against the legitimate pharmacies. We would lose a lot of business simply for the fact that many of our patients who take C2 or C3's also take 10-12 other meds. this is total crap...I support a database, but i do not support this crap of not letting us dispense C2 or C3's. Absolutely ludicrous.
 
Doctor M said:
This Bill is Unfair and discriminates against the legitimate pharmacies. We would lose a lot of business simply for the fact that many of our patients who take C2 or C3's also take 10-12 other meds. this is total crap...I support a database, but i do not support this crap of not letting us dispense C2 or C3's. Absolutely ludicrous.
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This is why i posted my previous comment. Some people don't get it in the first time.
 
I suspect this is political grandstanding. A law like this doesnt seem like it would hold up in court for more than maybe an hour.

dont take what i say seriously, i dont really have the commerce clause memorized..


edit: although this seems extreme, there are probably more real things to worry about regarding florida pharmacy laws... maybe it's just a front so they can scale it back and look like they compromised while still giving independents the shaft
 
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5minutes said:
You don't think this bill is unfair? I think it is unfair, and it violates Freedom of Speech.
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I think what the other poster is getting at, is that this has nothing to do at all with freedom of speech. Not that it isn't unfair.

Please read up on what "freedom of speech" actually entails before invoking it. It has a very specific meaning.
 
Doctor M said:
This Bill is Unfair and discriminates against the legitimate pharmacies. We would lose a lot of business simply for the fact that many of our patients who take C2 or C3's also take 10-12 other meds. this is total crap...I support a database, but i do not support this crap of not letting us dispense C2 or C3's. Absolutely ludicrous.
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What is the "word on the street" as to the viability of this? Any chance of passing? Are any indies already jumping ship / preparing? This is absolutely f---ing brutal for independent pharmacy.
 
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5minutes said:
We are living in the age of corrupted government. This law violates the U.S Constitution Freedom of Speech because it prevents one from carrying one action, and allow others not to do the same. There is not basis for this discrimination.
Click to expand...

I think you might have been going for "Equal Protection Clause" because there is no First Amendment issue here that I can see.
 
StevePerry said:
What is the "word on the street" as to the viability of this? Any chance of passing? Are any indies already jumping ship / preparing? This is absolutely f---ing brutal for independent pharmacy.
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This Bill has a very good chance of passing...If this bill passes, forget about ever being able to start a pharmacy in the state of Florida. They are trying to rid florida of pill mills which is fine, but they are also gonna cause unemployment to jump by 14000 people. Limiting me to 5000 pills of the oxycodone class pretty much puts me out of business. i have 1 patient who get 120 percocet 5/325 monthly and 6 other meds. 120 percocet 5/325 is already 2.5% of my allotment. that is 1 rx. I have many patients on 10/325, 7.5/325, 15 mg oxy, 5 mg oxy and 30 mg oxy....it would be detrimental to us...we would lose those patients along with their 5-10 meds each...
 
"The bill provides that, effective January 1, 2012. a community pharmacy may not dispense a controlled substance listed in Schedule II or Schedule III unless the pharmacy:

Is wholly owned by a corporation whose shares are publicly traded on a recognized stock exchange; or

Is wholly owned by a corporation having more than $100 million of business taxable assets in this state; or

Has been continuously permitted for at least 10 years; or

Is wholly owned or operated by a licensed hospice, hospital or nursing home or exclusively serves hospice, hospital or nursing home patients; or

Received or renewed a permit after January 1, 2012, such that it is subject to the new permitting requirements."

How did this wording even make it into the bill?

Either way, Rick Scott is quickly running this fine state into the ground.
 
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All students, all SDN Memebrs, even if your not in Florida, please email representative Schenk at [email protected]

and voice your opinion. This will affect many of you...I urge you to email him and let him know that we support a database and the prevention of prescription abuse, but NOT at the expense of the small businesses. This will be detrimental to small businesses...
 
Doctor M said:
All students, all SDN Memebrs, even if your not in Florida, please email representative Schenk at [email protected]

and voice your opinion. This will affect many of you...I urge you to email him and let him know that we support a database and the prevention of prescription abuse, but NOT at the expense of the small businesses. This will be detrimental to small businesses...
Click to expand...


You should also have people call the Governor's constituent services office and express their opposition to this. If a lot of people call on the same day it will be annoying and get attention. I have employed this tactic several times to great success. :luck::xf:
 
All4MyDaughter said:
I think this is probably unconstitutional and won't hold up in court. The Florida independent pharmacy association (or similar organization) should be looking at legal options should this bill pass.
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The FPA is taking donations to help fight this. We will be donating to this cause...I still urge all of you to email the representative. Although his intentions are mean well, this is NOT the way to do this.
 
The bill provides that, effective January 1, 2012. a community pharmacy may not dispense a controlled substance listed in Schedule II or Schedule III unless the pharmacy: Is wholly owned by a corporation whose shares are publicly traded on a recognized stock exchange; or Is wholly owned by a corporation having more than $100 million of business taxable assets in this state; or Has been continuously permitted for at least 10 years; or Is wholly owned or operated by a licensed hospice, hospital or nursing home or exclusively serves hospice, hospital or nursing home patients; or Received or renewed a permit after January 1, 2012, such that it is subject to the new permitting requirements.

I dont understand the last bolded part. Does this mean if i get reinspected after 2012, i will be able to continue dispensing controls?
 
Doctor M said:
The bill provides that, effective January 1, 2012. a community pharmacy may not dispense a controlled substance listed in Schedule II or Schedule III unless the pharmacy: Is wholly owned by a corporation whose shares are publicly traded on a recognized stock exchange; or Is wholly owned by a corporation having more than $100 million of business taxable assets in this state; or Has been continuously permitted for at least 10 years; or Is wholly owned or operated by a licensed hospice, hospital or nursing home or exclusively serves hospice, hospital or nursing home patients; or Received or renewed a permit after January 1, 2012, such that it is subject to the new permitting requirements.

I dont understand the last bolded part. Does this mean if i get reinspected after 2012, i will be able to continue dispensing controls?
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I was looking at that statement too. What are the "new permitting requirements" that you'd be subject to if you were to receive/renew your permit.
 
What a bunch of bull...you would think a Republican would be all about anti-crime (monitoring C-II fills by law enforcement/FDLE) and free markets (as opposed to pharmacy monopoly by CVS/wags)...oh wait, he was in for-profit medicine, go figure.

I'm all about C-II to C-IV database...HIPAA still applies, and if law enforcement is on board it would be a great way to crack down on diversion. Of course there are ways around it, but it's definitely a start.
 
They've had an online database of every scheduled narcotic filled in the state of WV since like 2005. You can look up a person by name and see everything they've had filled in the last two years inside the state. It cut down on doctor shoppers so much that it became almost nonexistent. Just ask for ID to ensure they are who they say they are and aren't using multiple DOBs...problem solved, more or less...unless you live on the border....then they can go to states like Ohio and Pennsylvania that are stuck in the pharmacy practice darkages.

Effing West Virginia is ahead of the curve for once. Ha Ha.
 
I understand the outcry for a national scheduled drug database to limit abuse but my concern with this is that people will find a way to get their fix (I mean c'mon all of you retail people, you have that addict who calls you every day to see when their next refill is right?). I fear that the database would significantly increase the underground CI trade and magnify all of the associated problems (violence, drug trafficking etc.). I do not have scientific study to support my beliefs on this issue, but historical precedent would seem to attest their truthfulness, ie prohibition.

Just a thought.
 
Doctor M said:
This Bill has a very good chance of passing...If this bill passes, forget about ever being able to start a pharmacy in the state of Florida. They are trying to rid florida of pill mills which is fine, but they are also gonna cause unemployment to jump by 14000 people. Limiting me to 5000 pills of the oxycodone class pretty much puts me out of business. i have 1 patient who get 120 percocet 5/325 monthly and 6 other meds. 120 percocet 5/325 is already 2.5% of my allotment. that is 1 rx. I have many patients on 10/325, 7.5/325, 15 mg oxy, 5 mg oxy and 30 mg oxy....it would be detrimental to us...we would lose those patients along with their 5-10 meds each...
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What if there was a bill that stated if you do (x) rxs per week then you can dispense :thumbup: oxycodone per week? Some sort of formula to eliminate pill mills. But the formula holds true to all pharmacies, even chains? Would that work?
 
museabuse said:
What if there was a bill that stated if you do (x) rxs per week then you can dispense :thumbup: oxycodone per week? Some sort of formula to eliminate pill mills. But the formula holds true to all pharmacies, even chains? Would that work?
Click to expand...

I think that would be a challenge to administer, since script counts fluctuate. One week you could dispense oxy but the next you couldn't because your script count was down the week prior? Stuff like that.
 
museabuse said:
What if there was a bill that stated if you do (x) rxs per week then you can dispense :thumbup: oxycodone per week? Some sort of formula to eliminate pill mills. But the formula holds true to all pharmacies, even chains? Would that work?
Click to expand...

Oh Yeah, i actually emailed the representative and suggested this, I have no problem being limited on oxycodone based on our volume cause that way i will still be able to stay open. Now, there has to be a clause for increases cause we do want to grow. If a patient comes in with 12 meds and an oxy, i have to be able to take them in. It's a service industry. this bill just destroys everything.
 
Representative Schenk stated that only legitimate pharmacies would be able to dispense narcotics. Ok, that is fine, who determines who is legitimate? A bill that states only a company who is publicly traded on a known exchange? This Bill had good intentions, but some if the wording has to go...
 
All4MyDaughter said:
I think that would be a challenge to administer, since script counts fluctuate. One week you could dispense oxy but the next you couldn't because your script count was down the week prior? Stuff like that.
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Volume on a monthly basis, not weekly. Wholesalers do this now, but they just need to be more strict. It is doable...
 
Dr Wario said:
I understand the outcry for a national scheduled drug database to limit abuse but my concern with this is that people will find a way to get their fix (I mean c'mon all of you retail people, you have that addict who calls you every day to see when their next refill is right?). I fear that the database would significantly increase the underground CI trade and magnify all of the associated problems (violence, drug trafficking etc.). I do not have scientific study to support my beliefs on this issue, but historical precedent would seem to attest their truthfulness, ie prohibition.

Just a thought.
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People from Kentucky just came to Florida for their fix. Now they are gonna find another avenue...Your not really fixing the problem, just putting a ban aid on it. It starts with the physicians writing these rxs and making 1-2 million per year.
 
Doctor M said:
All students, all SDN Memebrs, even if your not in Florida, please email representative Schenk at [email protected]

and voice your opinion. This will affect many of you...I urge you to email him and let him know that we support a database and the prevention of prescription abuse, but NOT at the expense of the small businesses. This will be detrimental to small businesses...
Click to expand...

I agree with Doctor M, if everyone takes a second of their day to e-mail Representative Schenk and let him know what a bill like this will do to the industry, not only in Florida, but all over the country. Perhaps it'll have enough of impact to change the wording of the bill.

Unfortunately, this bill as far-fetched as it sounds has a really strong chance of passing in Florida. The Republican party has a strong majority in both the house and senate in Florida, and with a Tea Party Republican Governor pushing for this legislature, party members are willing to stay within party lines. Remind them that this is not a party issue. This is a small business, 14,000 jobs, and industry issue. We want to stop Pill Mills, but eliminating small businesses is not the answer.
 
histopath said:
I agree with Doctor M, if everyone takes a second of their day to e-mail Representative Schenk and let him know what a bill like this will do to the industry, not only in Florida, but all over the country. Perhaps it'll have enough of impact to change the wording of the bill.

Unfortunately, this bill as far-fetched as it sounds has a really strong chance of passing in Florida. The Republican party has a strong majority in both the house and senate in Florida, and with a Tea Party Republican Governor pushing for this legislature, party members are willing to stay within party lines. Remind them that this is not a party issue. This is a small business, 14,000 jobs, and industry issue. We want to stop Pill Mills, but eliminating small businesses is not the answer.
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An bombardment of emails will have an effect. I have emailed him twice. I urge all of you to email him at least once. if you live in another state, i still urge you to email him. If florida starts this, other states may follow.
 
Rick Scott is a scumbag healthcare executive with a massive history of Medicare Fraud with HCA/Columbia. I can't believe y'all elected him a governor.

Also, he is a major investor in some Pharmacy chain unless he sold out.

Sounds like to me a major conflict of interest to propose something like this. Sue the F * * K outta the bastard and impeach the MOFO.

:thumbdown:
 
Its Z said:
Rick Scott is a scumbag healthcare executive with a massive history of Medicare Fraud with HCA/Columbia. I can't believe y'all elected him a governor.

Also, he is a major investor in some Pharmacy chain unless he sold out.

Sounds like to me a major conflict of interest to propose something like this. Sue the F * * K outta the bastard and impeach the MOFO.

:thumbdown:
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I can almost guarantee that if this bill passes, there will be a class action lawsuit. In reading the bill more thoroughly, it seems as though 5000 pill will be the primary limit and if you need more, you better have a good reason for needing more. Im fine with that, cause we have many patients that have poly pharmacy plus many other non controls....Sounds like you can buy more than 5000 limit but there must be good reason.
 
Don't worry, Wal-Mart and the Supreme Court are already underway at eviscerating the power of class-actions lawsuits so I'm sure there'll be little recourse for independents out there to challenge the will of Wall Street and corporate interests.
 
meister said:
Don't worry, Wal-Mart and the Supreme Court are already underway at eviscerating the power of class-actions lawsuits so I'm sure there'll be little recourse for independents out there to challenge the will of Wall Street and corporate interests.
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If it means that 14000 people may lose their jobs, then someone will listen. Im not saying not to limit these powerful narcs, but at least make it fair so that not only the chains have access to filling a legit rx.
 
So far ive only seen one email sent. i urge all of you to voice your opinion. This will affect many of you...and may affect other pharmacy industries such as large retail and hospitals. If 14,000 people lose their jobs, we will be looking for other jobs...Email this Rep now!!!!
 
Doctor M said:
So far ive only seen one email sent. i urge all of you to voice your opinion. This will affect many of you...and may affect other pharmacy industries such as large retail and hospitals. If 14,000 people lose their jobs, we will be looking for other jobs...Email this Rep now!!!!
Click to expand...

I've sent one today and will send another in a couple of days until I either receive a response or the bill is modified.
 
histopath said:
I've sent one today and will send another in a couple of days until I either receive a response or the bill is modified.
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Where is Oldtimer and Mountain? They need to email this rep today. Thank you for emailing the representative!
 
Doctor M, I think you should compose a short message of model. Then give it to us, so we can copy and paste. That way it will be faster.
 
It takes two to tangle yet the crack down seem to be only directed @ pharmacy, what about the doc slinging the rock? They're the real culprit IMO, alot of these pain clinics aren't even owned by docs, cut off the head of the snake and the rest will follow.
 
Guys,
The situation is actually worse than what you actually see in the House Bill.
Two recent case scenarios:
1. A friend of mine opened a pharmacy in Miami, purchased everything with his hard earned money. After receiving all the licenses, he filled out the paper work with the insurance companies to get the contracts; all he needed was the DEA number so he could get rolling. Lol. The DEA sent him a letter “DENIED!” I was like WTF They are scrutinizing all new pharmacies.
2. Another friend of mine was opening an intravenous pharmacy. Applied for the DEA license. End result, DENIED. He then asked them on what grounds, they said he was not a pharmacist and they are not approving DEA numbers for small pharmacies that are not owned by pharmacist. I thought it was a joke. Turns out that its true. Again in Miami.
Both cases happened in South Florida.
The problem that we are facing with oxy’s is really, really, bad. Even the governor’s brother is addicted to the stuff (Scott said so while addressing Congress).
Small businesses are going to suffer. I already called a friend of mine who is a lawyer in D.C. and he said that it’s unconstitutional for a government to allow one company to sell a product and another to not sell a product. He also said that if this ends up in the Supreme Court that the State of Florida will lose. It just depends on how hard small pharmacies are willing to come together to put up a fight.
 
PharmDlife said:
Guys,
The situation is actually worse than what you actually see in the House Bill.
Two recent case scenarios:
1. A friend of mine opened a pharmacy in Miami, purchased everything with his hard earned money. After receiving all the licenses, he filled out the paper work with the insurance companies to get the contracts; all he needed was the DEA number so he could get rolling. Lol. The DEA sent him a letter “DENIED!” I was like WTF They are scrutinizing all new pharmacies.
2. Another friend of mine was opening an intravenous pharmacy. Applied for the DEA license. End result, DENIED. He then asked them on what grounds, they said he was not a pharmacist and they are not approving DEA numbers for small pharmacies that are not owned by pharmacist. I thought it was a joke. Turns out that its true. Again in Miami.
Both cases happened in South Florida.
The problem that we are facing with oxy’s is really, really, bad. Even the governor’s brother is addicted to the stuff (Scott said so while addressing Congress).
Small businesses are going to suffer. I already called a friend of mine who is a lawyer in D.C. and he said that it’s unconstitutional for a government to allow one company to sell a product and another to not sell a product. He also said that if this ends up in the Supreme Court that the State of Florida will lose. It just depends on how hard small pharmacies are willing to come together to put up a fight.
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I imagined that if this bill passes, the courts would not uphold this law. The wording is ridiculous. The legitimate independents will put up a fight, a huge fight.

No email template is necessary. Just Email him stating how his ideas to get rid of pill mills is a fabulous idea, but not by punishing legitimate small businesses. I want to emphasize that his idea of getting rid of pill mills is good for society, but not at the expense of small legitimate pharmacies.
 
Not only what everyone else has said, but in addition to that... in my observation (live in south Florida for over 23 years so I inevitably know a lot of these people) it's not the small independent pharmacies who are filling Rx from pill mills... it's the PICs hiding behind the name of large chains who aren't opting to turn them away and who go ahead and fill them anyway.

That bill makes no sense to me.
 
Looks like the house is doing a 3rd reading today on the Bill. So far they have amended the part where in order to dispense C2 and C3, you must be a pharmacy traded on a publicly stock exchange, see below:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/7095/Amendment/205473/PDF

this is a victory so far...However, the wording of limiting us to 5000 unit doses of oxycodone, morphine, dilaudid, hydrocodone and benzos still exist in the Bill. We must now warn the Florida Senate on how this will impact patients and small businesses.
 
I wish I had posted my pic in this thread instead of in pre-pharm. what the heck, I am going to post again and take my chances:

banned.jpg
 
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