Florida Schools Application Thread (Part 3)

[QofQuimica]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Not in a very good spot, REL told me my chances were't very good of getting off the waitlist. As much as it sucks at least USF lets me know where I am on the list so I'm not sitting around waiting for something that's not going to happen.

Sorry to hear that. 🙁 Listen, before you reapply, you might try making an appointment with REL to find out how you can improve your app. He helped me tremendously when I was applying, and it's well worth the trip to Tampa to talk to him.

 

[1_Accept_Away]

Has anyone heard anything about the new MD schools opening up in Florida? I had heard that UCF and FIU were slated to open MD schools accepting there first class in 2008? I also read that FIU had some problem with a donor with naming rights and that they were pushing back the first class to 2009? How about UCF?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Has anyone heard anything about the new MD schools opening up in Florida? I had heard that UCF and FIU were slated to open MD schools accepting there first class in 2008? I also read that FIU had some problem with a donor with naming rights and that they were pushing back the first class to 2009? How about UCF?

UCF is slated to accept 30-40 students in their first class in 2009, so one would apply next calendar year in the 2008 cycle.

 

[SillyMeMD]

Well I'm on USF's waitlist at the moment, but I'm not holding my breath. So unfortunately I think i'll be applying again this year. Eventually I do want to end up at a Florida school though.

I'm in the same position as you so I definitely feel your pain. 🙁 I agree with the above posters that you should talk to REL. He was very helpful and he'll give you useful advice. You won't waste your time with him. Here's to us re-applying for 2008. 😉 Hopefully we'll have better luck this time around.

 

[REL]

Has anyone heard anything about the new MD schools opening up in Florida? I had heard that UCF and FIU were slated to open MD schools accepting there first class in 2008? I also read that FIU had some problem with a donor with naming rights and that they were pushing back the first class to 2009? How about UCF?

I know that UCF is one year away from accepting applications for seating a 40 person class in 2009. From what I have heard, FIU, is also on the same pace.

 

[dr_hannibal_lecter]

whats the deal with UM? its been an 85 day weekend. Are there any new reports of people getting accepted? if so, what were there MCAT and sci GPA?

I got into UM (Miami campus) yesterday.

Good luck to everyone who's still waiting!

 

[1_Accept_Away]

I got into UM (Miami campus) yesterday.

Good luck to everyone who's still waiting!

Congratulations! 👍

Did you have an other acceptances? Will you definitely be attending Miami?

 

[dr_hannibal_lecter]

Congratulations! 👍

Did you have an other acceptances? Will you definitely be attending Miami?

Thanks. This is my first and only acceptance. I'm still on a few waitlists, but at this point it's likely that I will be attending Miami.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I got into UM (Miami campus) yesterday.

Good luck to everyone who's still waiting!

Congratulations!

 

[uzzyman]

Has anyone heard anything about waitlist movement at UF?

 

[neuroneurd]

Has anyone heard anything about waitlist movement at UF?

Ya, I spoke with Denise a few weeks ago. They accepted 20 people off the waitlist on May 16 to fill up the open spots due to those people that denied their acceptance. She said that approximately one person had been withdrawing a day since the 16th (my call was probably on the 25th or so), so there would probably be additional movement (though not as big as the 20 acceptances on the 16th) all throughout the summer. The committee meets whenever there are open spots. That's all I know really... but it would be great to know if people are getting off the waitlist. Good luck to everyone that's waiting along with me!

 

[LifetimeDoc]

So.....FSU Class of 2011 students....since you are the first MS1s to attend medical school in for 2007...how's it going? What's it like? We want details! 🙂

 

[CubanDoc]

So.....FSU Class of 2011 students....since you are the first MS1s to attend medical school in for 2007...how's it going? What's it like? We want details! 🙂

I don't think they have time for sdn now. They are attacking the ANATOMY beast

 

[Soccer885]

Hi everyone! I just wanted to see if anybody has any good news! I know several of you are on waitlists and hoping for movements...

Good luck!

 

[gujuDoc]

I don't think they have time for sdn now. They are attacking the ANATOMY beast

Trueeeeeee!!!! Word!!

 

[dr_hannibal_lecter]

I don't think they have time for sdn now. They are attacking the ANATOMY beast

That's so crazy to imagine. I don't even graduate until Thursday.

 

[DrZeke]

That's so crazy to imagine. I don't even graduate until Thursday.

Congrats on your acceptancE!!

 

[1_Accept_Away]

bumpola

 

[lucybug]

am attempting to repost this thread and I hope someone might be able to comment. Hey guys this is my first post and I am hoping to receive a response. Okay so I am a non-tradational student graduated from UF with a communications degree and then started a postbac program but my grades are not the best.
My undergrad gpa 3.02 .


Classes taken during undergraduate
Biology I B (High School)
Biology I lab B
Biology II C (University of Florida taken 3 years after Bio I)
Biology II lab C
Chem I B
Chem I lab A
Chem II C
Chem II lab A

__________________________________________________ ____________

Post-bac (Attended 3 different schools)

School 1.
Organic I B 3 credit hours
Organic I lab A 2 credit hours
Organic II B+
Organic II lab A 2 credit
Cell Structure and Function B
Lab B

Cumulative GPA 3.36

School 2.
Physics II A
Physics II lab A

Cumulative GPA 3.7

School 3.
Physics I A-
Physics I lab A
Biochemistry B+
Biochemistry A (Graduate level course)
Genetics B
Vertebrate Physiology A-
Pre calculus B+
Death and Dying A
DIS research A

Cumulative GPA 3.58
__________________________________________________

I need advice. Should I use this next year to take additional classes or work at the hospital? I would appreciate any advice you guys have and best of luck to everyone applying.

I am just concerned at the advice of the premedical adviser at my school. He seemed to think that taking additionally classes wouldn't help my application too much since I have so many credit hours already.

My EC are pretty much in line:
1. Over 300 hours shadowing physicians
2. Volunteer Research in College of Medicine Lab
3. EMT
4. Worked in a drug rehab center for 2 years
5. Pastoral Care volunteer

I have not yet taken the MCAT but will have a year to study for. Sorry for the long post!

 

[gaga]

According to the Orlando Sentinel, UCF would like to offer the entire first class full scholarships for all 4 years. =) too bad i'm applying this year not next...

 

[75969]

So.....FSU Class of 2011 students....since you are the first MS1s to attend medical school in for 2007...how's it going? What's it like? We want details! 🙂

Well....there arent really words to explain how quickly things move. We have done the entire thorax- muscles, bones, nerves, veins, etc...as well as lung, heart, so much detail with those that you cant imaging. Also embryo from week 1 through birth, doctoring, learning to take history. So much more... The students here are awesome though, all upperclassmen are doing everything they can to help. The school is awesome, but like I said...the classwork is !$#%... ok, back to studying...grrr.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Hey guys, LucyBug is looking for some advice. I told her to post here because I know you guys will be straight with her and I'm hoping REL will also weigh in. If you have time, read her post and give her some advice on how to improve her application.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

am attempting to repost this thread and I hope someone might be able to comment. Hey guys this is my first post and I am hoping to receive a response. Okay so I am a non-tradational student graduated from UF with a communications degree and then started a postbac program but my grades are not the best.
My undergrad gpa 3.02 .
<snip>
I need advice. Should I use this next year to take additional classes or work at the hospital? I would appreciate any advice you guys have and best of luck to everyone applying.

I am just concerned at the advice of the premedical adviser at my school. He seemed to think that taking additionally classes wouldn't help my application too much since I have so many credit hours already.

My EC are pretty much in line:
1. Over 300 hours shadowing physicians
2. Volunteer Research in College of Medicine Lab
3. EMT
4. Worked in a drug rehab center for 2 years
5. Pastoral Care volunteer

I have not yet taken the MCAT but will have a year to study for. Sorry for the long post!

First, you'll need to know what your MCAT score will be. You can make a good guess based on timed, real-world-like MCAT practice exams you have taken. You will need (IMHO) to get at least a 30 for a chance at a MD school in Florida with your GPA history. Keep taking practices, and when you get over a 30 (9+ in each section), then and only then take the actual exam.

Yes, you do have lots of credits and your overall GPA won't rise very fast because of averaging. What is your cumulative GPA total? With so many credits, it will depend on you being above certain thresholds like 3.0 so that a human will review your application instead of being rejected outright. What will be important is that you show a strong showing in your science grades in your post bacc. Try to get all A's if you can swing it.

If your total cumulative GPA is 3.02 (pre and post-bacc), then I'd suggest taking more courses. If your cumulative GPA is 3.3 with a strong showing of grades recently, then don't take more courses as long as you have a good MCAT score. I'd talk to some admission advisers at USF, UM, FSU, or UF if you can in addition to your own advisor. It all depends if you don't mind taking another year for classes, spending the money, etc. I know that I did 2 years post-bacc after my "regular" 5 year of undergrad (which was 10-15 years earlier). I needed those 2 years to get my GPA up, but may not have needed that...may never now. Hard decision.

P.S. Remember that any under/grad courses you take as an undergraduate will calculate into your undergrad GPA. Any undergrad/grad courses you take as a graduate will calculate into a separate graduate GPA. Your enrollment and not the course number/level will matter.

Continue volunteering in anything you feel passionate about. Show that you can handle things other than just books. Your ECs look fine, just be able to relate whatever they are to your passion for becoming a physician through your essays, to your LOR writers, and in your interview.

 

[deuist]

I need advice. Should I use this next year to take additional classes or work at the hospital? I would appreciate any advice you guys have and best of luck to everyone applying.

I am just concerned at the advice of the premedical adviser at my school. He seemed to think that taking additionally classes wouldn't help my application too much since I have so many credit hours already.

My EC are pretty much in line:
1. Over 300 hours shadowing physicians
2. Volunteer Research in College of Medicine Lab
3. EMT
4. Worked in a drug rehab center for 2 years
5. Pastoral Care volunteer

As mentioned before, your application is far from complete until you have an MCAT. Also, what are your overall and science GPA's?

The big questions I always have about applicants' extracurriculars are what you do, what impact did you make, why did you join the particular organization, and again, what did you do? Shadowing hours don't matter unless you personally worked on the patients. If you just watched the physician, don't bother claiming it as a valuable experience. What kind of research did you do? How involved were you? Did you get any publications out it? How much time did you spend with your pastoral volunteering position? What did you do at the drug rehab center? Do you have any certifications or licenses?

Your adviser is correct. Let's say you currently have 140 credits. Even if you were to add 15 more credits of A's to your total, you wouldn't move your GPA up very much.

Finally, the million dollar question: why do you want to be a doctor? Your previous education shows that you didn't want to go into medicine. You need to show why you had a change of heart.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Your adviser is correct. Let's say you currently have 140 credits. Even if you were to add 15 more credits of A's to your total, you wouldn't move your GPA up very much.

That's true, but my thought is that she has about a 3.4 post-bacc GPA. That post-bacc GPA along with a 3.0 undergrad GPA won't get very far in the application process. It won't even get her past the secondary screening at Miami (they require a 3.2 undergrad or a 3.6 post-bacc), so I think she needs to take more post-bacc classes to bring up her post-bacc GPA, even if it has little affect on her overall undergrad GPA.

 

[deuist]

That's true, but my thought is that she has about a 3.4 post-bacc GPA. That post-bacc GPA along with a 3.0 undergrad GPA won't get very far in the application process. It won't even get her past the secondary screening at Miami (they require a 3.2 undergrad or a 3.6 post-bacc), so I think she needs to take more post-bacc classes to bring up her post-bacc GPA, even if it has little affect on her overall undergrad GPA.

Some schools do not count the post-bacc work separately. They will merely add it to the total. I ran some quick numbers and found that starting with 140 credits, if a student adds 15 credits of all A's, he'll raise his GPA by only 0.07 points---an insignificant amount. Therefore, this pre-med should discontinue the post-bacc route and seek other options---such as major research or a master's program. The best bet would be to sit down with a member of an admissions committee to go over the application. The Florida schools are very helpful with coming up with plans to boost the application.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Some schools do not count the post-bacc work separately. They will merely add it to the total. I ran some quick numbers and found that starting with 140 credits, if a student adds 15 credits of all A's, he'll raise his GPA by only 0.07 points---an insignificant amount. Therefore, this pre-med should discontinue the post-bacc route and seek other options---such as major research or a master's program. The best bet would be to sit down with a member of an admissions committee to go over the application. The Florida schools are very helpful with coming up with plans to boost the application.

AMCAS counts them separately though so on the application, they're in separate boxes. That's my point. That post-bacc box will say 3.4 now, but if she works hard at more classes and brings it up to a 3.7, I think it will improve her chances. And on the adcom thread, adcoms said that if a student has a sub-par GPA in something unrelated, then returns to school to pursue medicine as a non-traditional, the post-bacc GPA does carry some weight.

 

[REL]

AMCAS counts them separately though so on the application, they're in separate boxes. That's my point. That post-bacc box will say 3.4 now, but if she works hard at more classes and brings it up to a 3.7, I think it will improve her chances. And on the adcom thread, adcoms said that if a student has a sub-par GPA in something unrelated, then returns to school to pursue medicine as a non-traditional, the post-bacc GPA does carry some weight.

AMCAS does list them separately like the freshman, etc, but the UG postbac hours are counted in the overall GPA.

 

[REL]

am attempting to repost this thread and I hope someone might be able to comment. Hey guys this is my first post and I am hoping to receive a response. Okay so I am a non-tradational student graduated from UF with a communications degree and then started a postbac program but my grades are not the best.
My undergrad gpa 3.02 .


Classes taken during undergraduate
Biology I B (High School)
Biology I lab B
Biology II C (University of Florida taken 3 years after Bio I)
Biology II lab C
Chem I B
Chem I lab A
Chem II C
Chem II lab A

__________________________________________________ ____________

Post-bac (Attended 3 different schools)

School 1.
Organic I B 3 credit hours
Organic I lab A 2 credit hours
Organic II B+
Organic II lab A 2 credit
Cell Structure and Function B
Lab B

Cumulative GPA 3.36

School 2.
Physics II A
Physics II lab A

Cumulative GPA 3.7

School 3.
Physics I A-
Physics I lab A
Biochemistry B+
Biochemistry A (Graduate level course)
Genetics B
Vertebrate Physiology A-
Pre calculus B+
Death and Dying A
DIS research A

Cumulative GPA 3.58
__________________________________________________

I need advice. Should I use this next year to take additional classes or work at the hospital? I would appreciate any advice you guys have and best of luck to everyone applying.

I am just concerned at the advice of the premedical adviser at my school. He seemed to think that taking additionally classes wouldn't help my application too much since I have so many credit hours already.

My EC are pretty much in line:
1. Over 300 hours shadowing physicians
2. Volunteer Research in College of Medicine Lab
3. EMT
4. Worked in a drug rehab center for 2 years
5. Pastoral Care volunteer

I have not yet taken the MCAT but will have a year to study for. Sorry for the long post!

Ok, here's my two cents based on a state of Florida baseline. Not counting the MCAT I have three areas of concern: academics, medical motivation, humanism.
- Academics: A better trend after a bachelors, but I dont know all of the data. If any of the 3 schools were a community college, the courses MAY be discounted. Since all schools now are pushing 3.7 GPA, you are a bit below the group. An above average MCAT might persuade a school to interview, but it's not a lock. What to do? I suggest getting into a basic science based MS -- USF has 3 of them which are taught by COM faculty and are 31hr MS done in 1 year. You need to do full time academics to show an admissions committee that you can hang with the group in heavy sciences with strong outcomes. USF and other schools also have a 1 year, Med I-like, MS which is a gamble, but also closed out applications in mid-March. Tulane, Georgetown, BU, UMDNJ, Drexel, Barry, and others have a similar curriculum. Do well and you increase your stock for possible future interview/acceptance; dont do well and you can look toward DO schools as your final hope. I dont recommend the Med I-like MS unless I am convinced that you have a strong handle on basic sciences. You are doing above 3.0 work, so you might be ready.
- Medical motivation: For USF we want to see a consistent history of medical clinical VOLUNTEERING and some physician shadowing so that you know what you are getting into. We also use it to try to determine if you have what it takes to be a helpmeet in the classroom to your peers. If we dont see it you may not have the helpmeet traits. Not having it probably wont get you an interview at USF. (I dont see any of this based on what you listed)
- Humanism: Another word for helping others in a non-medical environment, aka Community Service VOLUNTEERING. Like med clin vol, we really want to see a consistent history of giving to others without a personal payoff. The reasoning is also the helpmeet attitude. (I think the Pastoral Care fits here.)

Working in a medical area is great, EMT, shadowing etc., as it helps you to understand what happens in the medical areas. They are not substitutes for the volunteerism listed above.

In my mind you need to show strong basic science academics at the MS level, begin to address medical motivation and community service. I'm not sure what the MCAT might reveal. You probably should consider taking it since most of the MS deadlines for the fall term have passed. You would appear to have a good chance at DO schools, but may have a sketchy response from MD programs. Finally, since I dont have all of the data at hand so I must beg a disclaimer.

 

[deuist]

Working in a medical area is great, EMT, shadowing etc., as it helps you to understand what happens in the medical areas. They are not substitutes for the volunteerism listed above.

That's one of my biggest frustrations in medical school admissions. A CNA who has thousands of hours of real-world, hands-on, smelling patients experience will do worse in the eyes of the admissions committee than someone who pushes wheelchairs at the VA. Universities hide behind a banner of "humanism" and claim that by giving lollipops to the sick and elderly, an applicant can demonstrate his willingness to help others. This belief is false for a few reasons.

First, there is no proof that volunteering makes a better doctor---either clinically or by attitude. I've read only one study that claims volunteering during medical school correlates with a better Step I score, but cannot find anything else that promotes a physician's abilities. Many of the lets-help-everyone-and-give-away-free-healthcare crowd that I've encountered in medical school wouldn't stop for a second to help a truly sick person. In fact, my class' biggest socialist has not volunteered a single hour of his time during the past two years.

Second, pre-med volunteering does not correlate with volunteering at the attending level. how many physicians give away free healthcare? I'd bet that the number is greatly reduced when compared to the number of pre-meds who are providing free work. Further, the rare physician that does volunteer will only do so on an even more rare occasion. Meanwhile, pre-meds are expected to join organizations where they volunteer weekly. Therefore, we can see that volunteering is a checkbox and not a reflection on someone's desire to help others.

Finally, how does shadowing a physician demonstrate that applicant understand the medical field? As far as I can tell, the only way to understand the medical field is to join the medical field. At least a CNA or EMT will actually work with patients and gain useful skills. Passively watching someone else work will not lead to the same educational experience. One applicant wrote a personal statement in which he detailed watching doctors work in an emergency department and all of the excitement he witnessed. My take on his essay was that he hadn't ever worked with patients and was clueless as to how a hospital functions.

 

[EagerToBeMD]

REL, do Florida schools discount CC credits? I'm a non trad who is doing all her science coursework at a CC. I also had an unimpressive ugrad GPA but I'm pulling a 4.0 in my post bacc (52 credits). It's my first run at these courses so it isn't like I took them as an ugrad and am now retaking them or anything.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

That's one of my biggest frustrations in medical school admissions. A CNA who has thousands of hours of real-world, hands-on, smelling patients experience will do worse in the eyes of the admissions committee than someone who pushes wheelchairs at the VA. Universities hide behind a banner of "humanism" and claim that by giving lollipops to the sick and elderly, an applicant can demonstrate his willingness to help others. This belief is false for a few reasons.

I agree that the med school adcom is a bit mysterious on what they are looking for outside of the numbers game. I don't think a CNA/EMT is looked down upon by the adcom, quite the opposite. I think REL is trying to say that they are looking for both exposure to the medical field and whether this person is willing to help others out. He used the term helpmeet, honestly I never heard that one before, would suggest that they want to build a cohesive class that is willing to help each other out to get through medical school.

Volunteering is an action where you work for free, to give your to to help others without recompense.

First, there is no proof that volunteering makes a better doctor---either clinically or by attitude. I've read only one study that claims volunteering during medical school correlates with a better Step I score, but cannot find anything else that promotes a physician's abilities. Many of the lets-help-everyone-and-give-away-free-healthcare crowd that I've encountered in medical school wouldn't stop for a second to help a truly sick person. In fact, my class' biggest socialist has not volunteered a single hour of his time during the past two years.

Volunteering correlates with Step I? Step I is a test of your ability to take the basic medical sciences and somewhat answer them in a clinical format. What does that have to do with volunteering? 😕 Abilities can mean: is the doctor capable of correcty diagnosing and providing a treatment plan for the patient to can the doctor relate to the patient on a human level to complete their care?

True; many people say one thing and either do/don't do what they propose. This is why actions of volunteerism are a better measure.

Second, pre-med volunteering does not correlate with volunteering at the attending level. how many physicians give away free healthcare? I'd bet that the number is greatly reduced when compared to the number of pre-meds who are providing free work. Further, the rare physician that does volunteer will only do so on an even more rare occasion. Meanwhile, pre-meds are expected to join organizations where they volunteer weekly. Therefore, we can see that volunteering is a checkbox and not a reflection on someone's desire to help others.

That'd be a cool study to see if there was a correlation.

I'm pretty sure that simply joining an organization and saying you did some volunteer events is looked upon differently than somebody (either in a group or on their own) actually putting in time actually volunteering somewhere. I don't know the exact percentage of physicians that volunteer on discrete projects (like to New Orleans, in-need areas, Central America,abroad, etc) but I know several that do. Many physicians give away free care that isn't noticed, on a daily basis. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not done.

Finally, how does shadowing a physician demonstrate that applicant understand the medical field? As far as I can tell, the only way to understand the medical field is to join the medical field. At least a CNA or EMT will actually work with patients and gain useful skills. Passively watching someone else work will not lead to the same educational experience. One applicant wrote a personal statement in which he detailed watching doctors work in an emergency department and all of the excitement he witnessed. My take on his essay was that he hadn't ever worked with patients and was clueless as to how a hospital functions.

Being a volunteer at an urban ED, I can say that when you are shadowing you do not get to see what the rest of the ED staff does outside of the realm of the physician. Same goes for shadowing a physician, you get to see something totally different. I'd say that both are mutually important to get as true a perspective on the medical field.

If I were on the adcom, I'd consider a CNA a dual shadow/clinical experience. You get to see and assist with many clinical settings from all angles. An EMT, however, doesn't work in the clinical setting all the time so I'd want to see that they shadowed a physician to see what their job was like.

 

[walkoffhr]

I'm a FL resident, and UM grad. I have a 3.5 gpa with a solid upward trend, and a 26 mcat. Good volunteer/clinical experiences and LOR's. I just graduated, and am trying to find some research work for the upcoming year. I decided not to apply to UF and my alma mater, and am trying for USF and FSU. Any advice or comments?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I'm a FL resident, and UM grad. I have a 3.5 gpa with a solid upward trend, and a 26 mcat. Good volunteer/clinical experiences and LOR's. I just graduated, and am trying to find some research work for the upcoming year. I decided not to apply to UF and my alma mater, and am trying for USF and FSU. Any advice or comments?

Apply to all of the Florida MD schools: USF, FSU, UF, UM and then to the other two next year when they start opening up applications: UCF, FIU. You never know if you will "click" with a particular school, so it's best to always apply to all of the schools in your state.

I'd consider studying for the MCAT again (yeah, I know that's not something you want to repeat) and taking full-length, timed exams on a few weekends. If you are averaging a score at or above a 29, retake the actual exam. Your GPA is fine, but you need to get your MCAT up. A couple friends of mine got a 26 and had similar GPAs, and were both put on the low waitlists. You'd do a lot better with an MCAT above a 29.

Don't neglect the rest of your application: LORs, ECs, volunteering, shadowing, essays, etc.

 

[walkoffhr]

Apply to all of the Florida MD schools: USF, FSU, UF, UM and then to the other two next year when they start opening up applications: UCF, FIU. You never know if you will "click" with a particular school, so it's best to always apply to all of the schools in your state.

I'd consider studying for the MCAT again (yeah, I know that's not something you want to repeat) and taking full-length, timed exams on a few weekends. If you are averaging a score at or above a 29, retake the actual exam. Your GPA is fine, but you need to get your MCAT up. A couple friends of mine got a 26 and had similar GPAs, and were both put on the low waitlists. You'd do a lot better with an MCAT above a 29.

Don't neglect the rest of your application: LORs, ECs, volunteering, shadowing, essays, etc.

Thanks for the response. I'm about ready to apply this year...I just need to edit my personal statement a little bit.

You think I should take another year off and re-take the mcat? That would make me 25 during my first year, but I think it's important to go to a good medical school. My BCMP is slightly above 3.3, so I'm not even sure if re-taking the mcat would be good enough. I was thinking my best chance would be at a DO school, even I scored 30+ on a retake.

 

[lucybug]

Thanks to everyone for all of the good advice. I feel like I have a better sense of next steps.

I get the idea from the range of advice that there isn’t exactly a set formula for nontraditional students (or at least that it’s still up for debate).

Having said that, I am going to take additional courses and bring my gpa at this current school to a 3.7. This will mean that for the last year and a half my gpa is 3.7. As for the master’s program, this is the first time I have had anyone mention that bit of advice but will consider my options if my MCAT score is not strong enough.

The other interesting issue that comes up is the matter of volunteering. While we’re in no position to make fundamental changes to the admissions system, it strikes me as counterproductive to place volunteer experience above work experience in terms of importance.

Yes, prospective physicians should have to demonstrate a fundamental desire to help his or her fellow man/woman. Nevertheless, placing so much emphasis on volunteerism places further barriers in front of applicants who work to support their families – many of whom have legitimate experience that speaks to their level of qualification.

For example I work at a drug and alcohol rehab center making not too much money but knowing that I was gaining positive clinical experience. At the center there is a girl who volunteers. She brings blankets, toast and water to patients. As for me, I work at the center and take care of patients going through withdrawal, which I have to say, at times, is the most difficult thing you could imagine.

 

[facewait]

to walkoffhr:
your low gpa and mcat will seriously hurt you in applying to allo schools. Those numbers are still not a lock for DO either. You really need to retake the MCAT and consider a one yr program. Dont worry about being 25, Ill be 24 when I start this fall and I dont regret being a non-trad. good luck

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Thanks for the response. I'm about ready to apply this year...I just need to edit my personal statement a little bit.

You think I should take another year off and re-take the mcat? That would make me 25 during my first year, but I think it's important to go to a good medical school. My BCMP is slightly above 3.3, so I'm not even sure if re-taking the mcat would be good enough. I was thinking my best chance would be at a DO school, even I scored 30+ on a retake.

Well, you could try applying this year to MD and DO (make sure you know if you want to do both MD and DO as there are some differences in approach to medicine and opportunities in residencies) while you study/prepare for the MCAT. If you get in this year, then great! If not, you are preparing for the next cycle.

If I hadn't gotten in the first year of applying, I would have applied to be a CNA to get more clinical experience and make some money to pay loans while out of school. A friend of mine is reapplying and also doing a masters certificate program at USF to improve her chances, while at the same time studying and planning a retake of her MCAT.

 

[I AM FABIO]

...

 

[gujuDoc]

That's one of my biggest frustrations in medical school admissions. A CNA who has thousands of hours of real-world, hands-on, smelling patients experience will do worse in the eyes of the admissions committee than someone who pushes wheelchairs at the VA. Universities hide behind a banner of "humanism" and claim that by giving lollipops to the sick and elderly, an applicant can demonstrate his willingness to help others. This belief is false for a few reasons.

First, there is no proof that volunteering makes a better doctor---either clinically or by attitude. I've read only one study that claims volunteering during medical school correlates with a better Step I score, but cannot find anything else that promotes a physician's abilities. Many of the lets-help-everyone-and-give-away-free-healthcare crowd that I've encountered in medical school wouldn't stop for a second to help a truly sick person. In fact, my class' biggest socialist has not volunteered a single hour of his time during the past two years.

Second, pre-med volunteering does not correlate with volunteering at the attending level. how many physicians give away free healthcare? I'd bet that the number is greatly reduced when compared to the number of pre-meds who are providing free work. Further, the rare physician that does volunteer will only do so on an even more rare occasion. Meanwhile, pre-meds are expected to join organizations where they volunteer weekly. Therefore, we can see that volunteering is a checkbox and not a reflection on someone's desire to help others.

Finally, how does shadowing a physician demonstrate that applicant understand the medical field? As far as I can tell, the only way to understand the medical field is to join the medical field. At least a CNA or EMT will actually work with patients and gain useful skills. Passively watching someone else work will not lead to the same educational experience. One applicant wrote a personal statement in which he detailed watching doctors work in an emergency department and all of the excitement he witnessed. My take on his essay was that he hadn't ever worked with patients and was clueless as to how a hospital functions.

I think this is a good post But you know REL's opinion is only one opinion.

I'd be willing to bet not all people see on adcoms everywhere see it that way. I've gotten the impression that at your school (UMiami) that they ctually like seeing people who've held a job in the healthcare field and will sometimes let people who've had several years of experience in a field like nursing get in with as low as a 24. I know a classmate of Arsenic's who went to USF and was a nurse for 10 years. She got in right away even with a really late Feb. interview because she had really impressed Dr. Hinkley at the interview with her extensive clinical experience and 3.9 postbac plus she had a spanish degree from her undergrad days.

She also ot into FSU and I think her nursing experience was more highly looked at then the traditional wheelchair pusher.

At USF they like to see volunteering, but at other schools it doesn't how you get your clinical experience (i.e. whether it is work or volunteering).

Also, I know a few people even at USF who got in right away without waitlist in between that had very little volunteering and a lot of clinical experience through work means. At least 2 people in the starting class of 2011 fit this bill.

Different adcoms have different opinions on the issue. I for the large part volunteer but agree with you that more can be learned and obtained by getting an EMT-B or a phlebotomy or clinical job then can be out of pushing wheel chairs at the VA or doing arts and crafts with childlife or elderly at the nursing homes and the idea of learning empathy and compassion can be learned from both work and volunteering.

 

[walkoffhr]

to walkoffhr:
your low gpa and mcat will seriously hurt you in applying to allo schools. Those numbers are still not a lock for DO either. You really need to retake the MCAT and consider a one yr program. Dont worry about being 25, Ill be 24 when I start this fall and I dont regret being a non-trad. good luck

I'm not worried so much about being older, I just don't want to put it off another year. I didn't apply last year because I wanted to get my GPA up, which I did significantly, and I don't want to have to take another year off to get my MCAT up. I know it's a certainty that I would do excellent on a re-take, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it. The numbers are the numbers, I'm just not sure what they actually tell about the person, and why adcoms and pre-meds are so focused on the numbers. But, I guess that's why our healthcare system is the way it is.

I was just reading above the remarks that REL made. I'm not sure if this is the adcom for USF, but I remember him at a health career forum in miami two years ago or so. He made so much sense with everything he said, which makes me think that despite my numbers I have a chance there, given what I've done with my life and volunteer experiences. I think my time would be better spent doing more volunteering this year instead of studying for the mcat again, because isn't what this is all about anyway?

 

[walkoffhr]

Well, you could try applying this year to MD and DO (make sure you know if you want to do both MD and DO as there are some differences in approach to medicine and opportunities in residencies) while you study/prepare for the MCAT. If you get in this year, then great! If not, you are preparing for the next cycle.

If I hadn't gotten in the first year of applying, I would have applied to be a CNA to get more clinical experience and make some money to pay loans while out of school. A friend of mine is reapplying and also doing a masters certificate program at USF to improve her chances, while at the same time studying and planning a retake of her MCAT.

I have researched the differences, and the only thing that makes me hesitant about the DO degree is getting a good residency. I'm getting an LOR from a DO who is a cardiothoracic surgeon, so I know that good residencies are possible if I worked hard. But then again, if I decide to go into pediatrics, then I guess it wouldn't matter too much whether I get the MD or DO degree.

That's a good idea to become a CNA, but I'm looking for some research work. Unfortunately I only had time to work and volunteer during undergrad, so the lack of research experience is killing me in trying to find a job. I have a few options left, but thanks for the advice, because it's something I haven't considered before.

 

[REL]

Thanks to everyone for all of the good advice. I feel like I have a better sense of next steps.

I get the idea from the range of advice that there isn't exactly a set formula for nontraditional students (or at least that it's still up for debate).

Having said that, I am going to take additional courses and bring my gpa at this current school to a 3.7. This will mean that for the last year and a half my gpa is 3.7. As for the master's program, this is the first time I have had anyone mention that bit of advice but will consider my options if my MCAT score is not strong enough.

The other interesting issue that comes up is the matter of volunteering. While we're in no position to make fundamental changes to the admissions system, it strikes me as counterproductive to place volunteer experience above work experience in terms of importance.

Yes, prospective physicians should have to demonstrate a fundamental desire to help his or her fellow man/woman. Nevertheless, placing so much emphasis on volunteerism places further barriers in front of applicants who work to support their families &#8211; many of whom have legitimate experience that speaks to their level of qualification.

For example I work at a drug and alcohol rehab center making not too much money but knowing that I was gaining positive clinical experience. At the center there is a girl who volunteers. She brings blankets, toast and water to patients. As for me, I work at the center and take care of patients going through withdrawal, which I have to say, at times, is the most difficult thing you could imagine.

Clarification: As noted above by some posts, working in a medical area is great and not discounted and, in a way, can sometimes be used in lieu of shadowing a physician. If you check the history USF had the highest GPA/MCAT starting class averages for several years up until about 6 years ago. That is when we made a conscious change to still take candidates with solid academics, but to ensure that we saw the motivation for medicine and others. That is where volunteerism comes in where you are doing something for others at no monetary/grade benefit to yourself. It was our decision that a classroom full of helpmeets (Biblical term meaning one who gives of themself to help others, those who help you get through things, encouragers) is better than a class full of academic achievers who have shown little tendency for others. We have found over the years that our classroom has become much more team oriented than in the earlier years. We also have found that most of our medical students continue their volunteerism during medical school and beyond --- but then, many of their preceptors and mentors are also very much involved in continuous acts of volunteerism. USF truly does look at volunteerism in the application and if there is no consistent history, even with the very best numbers, will not be interviewed. Those with the very best numbers and little humanism can go to those schools that value test-taking skills above humanism.

 

[REL]

REL, do Florida schools discount CC credits? I'm a non trad who is doing all her science coursework at a CC. I also had an unimpressive ugrad GPA but I'm pulling a 4.0 in my post bacc (52 credits). It's my first run at these courses so it isn't like I took them as an ugrad and am now retaking them or anything.

Many admissions committee members will not give full support to those who take large numbers of science courses at a CC, even at a 4.0 rate; presumably full-time. If at all possible you should get some upper-level basic science coursework at a 4-year institution and still maintain a good GPA to give the committee more confidence.

 

[QofQuimica]

My personal opinion as someone who has never been on an adcom but has been interviewed by a lot of them is that they are looking for people who are passionate about what they do. They are also looking for people who genuinely care about others. You can best show this trait by long-term, significant involvement in one or two major activities instead of jumping around from thing to thing and never sticking to any one for very long. One very interesting thing for me was that several interviewers asked me about my teaching experience. I think REL hit on why so many schools were interested in this: they figured I'd work well with my classmates. The dean at one school told me that the reason they accepted me was because, based on the interviewers' reports, they knew I'd put my patients' best interest above my own when I needed to. I'm not sure HOW they knew that from an hour long interview, mind you, but that's what the dean said.

 

[deuist]

I'm not sure HOW they knew that from an hour long interview

Interviews are another thing that need to be done away with. The business world has already done enough research to realize that interviewing is the worst way to select an applicant for hire. Generally, skills testing of some sort are used during the hiring process these days. Law schools don't even bother with interviews. I wonder why medical schools continue to use such an outdated method of selecting candidates. As Q alluded to, spending an hour with someone really does not do justice to determining the person's character. The applicant could be good at fooling the interviewer for an hour, yet be a royal a-hole down the road. Similarly, the reverse could equally be true---a shy student could be awkward when meeting new people, but might be the most reliable person in the class. What's worse, sometimes candidates just get bad interviewers. When I interviewed at Vandy, the professor's first question was about my ethnicity. He then proceeded to insult my personal statement and motivation for entering medical school. Seeing that I was a religion major, he then continued on by claiming that I might have a difficult time working with people of different religious backgrounds. I especially don't know why he said that---I'm an agnostic and my major was about comparing religions. The sad part was that I really liked Vanderbilt. But after the interview, I knew I wasn't going there.

 

[walkoffhr]

USF truly does look at volunteerism in the application and if there is no consistent history, even with the very best numbers, will not be interviewed. Those with the very best numbers and little humanism can go to those schools that value test-taking skills above humanism.

Rel,

Can you tell me if I would be considered at USF, or if it would be a waste of money for me to apply? 26 mcat, 3.5 gpa, 2.5 years of hospital volunteering with tons of patient contact, work experience at a hospital and as a youth sports coach, and I was an eagle scout back in the day.

I know admissions are much more complicated than what I've just given you, but do you think it would be worth it for me to apply?

 

[facewait]

I think my time would be better spent doing more volunteering this year instead of studying for the mcat again, because isn't what this is all about anyway?

Cant you do both?

 

[gujuDoc]

Cant you do both?

I agree with this post. Why can't you do both????

Volunteering will only get you so far but if you are serious about increasing your chances a higher MCAT will take you farther. MUCH farther!!!

 

[walkoffhr]

Cant you do both?

Yeah but that brings up a third scenario. Taking the mcat again this year puts me off another year, which I don't really want to do.