For all DO's and Pre-DO's

[USArmyDoc]

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Have any of you guys experienced or heard of any MD's saying negative things about DO's. I mean don't get me wrong, I know there are always bound to be idiots, but what about the majority? I was talking to someone before and this guy was telling me how all the MD's he knows say DO is the easy wayout. As a future DO, I can't help but become irritated. How do you guys respond?

 

[medhacker]

Have any of you guys experienced or heard of any MD's saying negative things about DO's. I mean don't get me wrong, I know there are always bound to be idiots, but what about the majority? I was talking to someone before and this guy was telling me how all the MD's he knows say DO is the easy wayout. As a future DO, I can't help but become irritated. How do you guys respond?

Contrary to what most people believe here, the silly MD v. DO rivalry only occurs in the minds of inmmature un-exposed premeds.

 

[Hoberto]

Well, I can only contribute one anecdote.

I mentioned to my doc, an MD, at my last appt that I was very interested in DO and wondered what he thought about it. Turns out that he used to teach at OU and was very impressed with the education and the students. He went on to say that he would feel more comfortable with someone from OU rather than a particular top ten school (where he teaches now) because the students are more focused on listening to the patient to help them determine the cause and nature of the illness rather focusing on the problem and the solution. His concern was that MD schools are not exposing students to patients early enough in the curricula.

So, this doc doesn't have anything against DOs.

 

[MSc44]

Have any of you guys experienced or heard of any MD's saying negative things about DO's. I mean don't get me wrong, I know there are always bound to be idiots, but what about the majority? I was talking to someone before and this guy was telling me how all the MD's he knows say DO is the easy wayout. As a future DO, I can't help but become irritated. How do you guys respond?

I think it just goes with peoples personality. The MD's who think that way afe most likely miserable, and just need to make them selves feel better. I know several Head of Dept, MD's who actually look highly upon DO's. I also know many DO's who are heads of Dept. I think most is due to being uneducated about it. My own father an MD was more then accepting when i decided to look into it and he became clear as to the fact that MD=DO. I am one of those poeople who has the grades to go MD if i choose but bue to personal reasons feel more like the "DO" type

 

[Sundarban1]

Contrary to what most people believe here, the silly MD v. DO rivalry only occurs in the minds of inmmature un-exposed premeds.

Thanks for hitting the nail on the head 👍

Working at one of the best hospitals in the country I work with both DO's and MD's in a busy oncology clinic and I have to say most people never realize that everyone had respect for you as long as you treat your patients.

End of story.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Yea, I agree. I would say after my second MCAT scores I would have a chance to go MD. But, I do find the the DO education to be interesting. I have an interview at Kansas City and I am very excited. It just urks me to hear these MD's say that when there is a good chance they might be from overseas. I was just venting.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Have any of you guys experienced or heard of any MD's saying negative things about DO's. I mean don't get me wrong, I know there are always bound to be idiots, but what about the majority? I was talking to someone before and this guy was telling me how all the MD's he knows say DO is the easy wayout. As a future DO, I can't help but become irritated. How do you guys respond?

Have you heard an MD talk negatively about a DO yourself?

In my experience, the only negative talk about other physicians comes from those in other healthcare fields. In fact, when I hear people speaking negatively --it is towards MD's and not DO's.

It is rare to find MD's complain about DO's unless it is in an area where a specific DO has done some wrongdoing.

If you "can't help but get irritated," then you are going to have a long road ahead of you-----nurses, techs, administrators, other physicians---will demand that you have a thick skin.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Have you heard an MD talk negatively about a DO yourself?

In my experience, the only negative talk about other physicians comes from those in other healthcare fields. In fact, when I hear people speaking negatively --it is towards MD's and not DO's.

It is rare to find MD's complain about DO's unless it is in an area where a specific DO has done some wrongdoing.

If you "can't help but get irritated," then you are going to have a long road ahead of you-----nurses, techs, administrators, other physicians---will demand that you have a thick skin.

You are right OSUDoc. I think I just need to get used to it a little more thats all.

 

[cfdavid]

From MD's? Not really.

From pre-meds? Sure.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

My brother is an MD and works with DOs regularly and thinks they're great. He hasn't tried to pursuade me at all not go to the DO route. He's inherently non-elitist, though. I expect some discrimination to occur, but I doubt it will be a huge deal.

The most ignorant DO thing I've come across is when a nurse case manager where I work reviewed one of my files where the claimant's primary care physician was a DO. She noted that file asking why the claimant was seeking treatment from a chiropractor and how that wasn't appropriate for his condition. That made that review pretty much worthless for me. Also, I don't think it can attributed to poor eyesight because this guy had pretty good handwriting. I know we don't have a lot of DOs in this part of the country, but seriously, an RN should know what one is.

 

[USArmyDoc]

My brother is an MD and works with DOs regularly and thinks they're great. He hasn't tried to pursuade me at all not go to the DO route. He's inherently non-elitist, though. I expect some discrimination to occur, but I doubt it will be a huge deal.

The most ignorant DO thing I've come across is when a nurse case manager where I work reviewed one of my files where the claimant's primary care physician was a DO. She noted that file asking why the claimant was seeking treatment from a chiropractor and how that wasn't appropriate for his condition. That made that review pretty much worthless for me. Also, I don't think it can attributed to poor eyesight because this guy had pretty good handwriting. I know we don't have a lot of DOs in this part of the country, but seriously, an RN should know what one is.

That nurse probably made a mistake. If not, shes a *****.

 

[mstann]

Have any of you guys experienced or heard of any MD's saying negative things about DO's. I mean don't get me wrong, I know there are always bound to be idiots, but what about the majority? I was talking to someone before and this guy was telling me how all the MD's he knows say DO is the easy wayout. As a future DO, I can't help but become irritated. How do you guys respond?

In the ER, i've talked to many docs about the whole rivalry thing... one md from temple, who has been practicing emergency medicine for years, asked me why I was applying to DO schools, and said that they (md, do) "hate each other." He alluded to the fact of lower entry scores, but mainly that THE SCHOOLS and ADMISSIONS committees hate each other more so than practicing physicians nowadays. He told me that the main difference is the availability (competitiveness) of residency spots... i'm guessing more towards specialty residency programs more than primary care. But he said there's no real difference once you're done residency; "you get out, you're a physician, and a physician is a physician." Moreover, he told me that if possible, I should try to get into md school for the sole purpose of getting into a solid residency program. (by the way, him and another ER physician, a DO, are great friends and work extremely well together)

Another physician I talked to, this one a DO, told me that the debate has never came up between him and those he works with. He is the only DO (among 5 physicians) at the pediatrics office he works at. The main difference he sees, at least nowadays, is the difference in school funding for research between DO and MD programs/schools. As an MD, he says, there are much more opportunities for research due to both state and federal funding (not to mention the reputations and facilities), although there have been some attempts to change this. However, when you look through major research journals, he says, "every once in a while you'll see a DO's name slid in there, but nothing compared to MD's. This however, shouldn't be a problem if you're planning on a clinical-oriented lifestyle, as I am.

 

[hamandcheese]

Pretty much like everyone else who has posted a reply I have had a positive comment given to me by an MD friend of mine. She told me that there is no difference and that DOs are most definitely just as well qualified to practice as any MD. (I suspect - as was noted earlier - that if one is trying to become a neurosurgeon it is harder to accomplish this with a DO after your name.)

 

[tara14]

Originally Posted by USArmyDoc
Have any of you guys experienced or heard of any MD's saying negative things about DO's. I mean don't get me wrong, I know there are always bound to be idiots, but what about the majority? I was talking to someone before and this guy was telling me how all the MD's he knows say DO is the easy wayout. As a future DO, I can't help but become irritated. How do you guys respond?


I, unfortunately, had a MD give me a negative impression of DO's. I am actually only applying to DO schools this cycle and I emailed her to ask her what her opinion was (She was my old boss and mentor), and I was very surprised by her negative response. She told me to go into nursing instead because she didn't think much of the DO medical field. What surprised me even more was when I talked to my primary care doctor (who is a DO) about his experience and he told me that my best bet was to go MD. However, I think that these negative opinions about DO's are mainly stemming from the older MD's. The MD that I talked to is in her late 50's and so was the DO. The DO was in the first class that graduated from UNECOM and he told me that he had such a hard time after he received his degree, but I think a lot has changed since then (I hope!). I think that there have been a lot of changes in the DO schools since then and in the mindsets of the younger generation of MD's (by being more open-minded and accepting towards other fields of medicine)

 

[indynshrty]

Unfortunately I had a DO say something negative about being a DO.
He went to Kirksville because that was the only place that accepted him, and he also said that he trained the in the same way an MD did (rotations/residency/tests,etc.).
He doesn't have the DO love.
I wanted to get my letter of rec from him..but I'm glad I didn't 🙂

 

[Old Man Rich]

When I first looked into becoming a DO I spoke with several MD's to get a feel for how they view DOs. Of those I met with it was all very positive.

In fact, the daughter of two MD's (a radiologist and a dermatoligist) just started classes at the DO school in Iowa after she turned down Indiana University's MD school. Her mom spoke of what her daughtere is already learning with OMT. Both parents are very high on the DO program.

 

[misparas]

My father-in-law is a practicing family practice MD. He was excited when I told him I wanted to go the DO route. He said that he believes the holistic philosophy. He also mentioned that if he was trained in manipulations he would use it all the time.

That said, there are many DOs who would do not use their training and could have done just as well in an MD school. Choose the style that fits you. Don't worry about what other people think!!

 

[Donvb]

Contrary to what most people believe here, the silly MD v. DO rivalry only occurs in the minds of inmmature un-exposed premeds.

Rather, this is an immature statement that comes from the un-exposed mind of a premed. I have worked in numerous hospitals, and every MD and DO that I encounter says that this IS an issue and IS NOT irrelevant... One hospital that I worked at had a job posting for a radiologist position to work with two other MD's: "No DO's accepted for job"... Now if that isn't an MD vs. DO rivalry then what is?

 

[USArmyDoc]

Rather, this is an immature statement that comes from the un-exposed mind of a premed. I have worked in numerous hospitals, and every MD and DO that I encounter says that this IS an issue and IS NOT irrelevant... One hospital that I worked at had a job posting for a radiologist position to work with two other MD's: "No DO's accepted for job"... Now if that isn't an MD vs. DO rivalry then what is?

I have to be honest. This is the first time I have heard of such a thing. I am not doubting you but to suggest that it is a widespread and relevant argument is a bit misleading. Just my opinion.

 

[irish79]

Rather, this is an immature statement that comes from the un-exposed mind of a premed. I have worked in numerous hospitals, and every MD and DO that I encounter says that this IS an issue and IS NOT irrelevant... One hospital that I worked at had a job posting for a radiologist position to work with two other MD's: "No DO's accepted for job"... Now if that isn't an MD vs. DO rivalry then what is?

I am not willing to believe that this is true. Not only is it extremely ignorant, but ILLEGAL. I am pretty sure they cannot discriminate outwardly like this (this harkens back to the times of “Irish need not apply”). Now, if this was their own thought, so be it, but to POST such OBVIOUS discrimination would only set you up to be sued (and I hope someone did so).

My experience thus far has been little if any problem with DO's. In fact, during my internal medicine rotation at the University of Arizona, one of the MD residents (going into DERM) said she felt as if the DO students were MUCH more knowledgeable than students in her own school (and she felt embarrassed when the two worked side-by-side). I have never had a doctor say anything rude, degrading or discriminating to me regarding the DO vs. MD thing. In all honesty, the only place I have ever witnessed this debate is amongst pre-meds (as was posted earlier). I even asked some of the DO’s who have been practicing for a while and only one (an older man) said he has experienced negativity regarding his degree. All the others said most people don’t care—a doctor is a doctor when you are in the hospital.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I have to admit it is encouraging to hear this. I have heard very good things but I have also heard bad things from some people, almost all premeds. I am interviewing in a less than a month at Kansas City and want to have all the facts out on the table. I appreciate all the help.

 

[DOtobe]

Rather, this is an immature statement that comes from the un-exposed mind of a premed. I have worked in numerous hospitals, and every MD and DO that I encounter says that this IS an issue and IS NOT irrelevant... One hospital that I worked at had a job posting for a radiologist position to work with two other MD's: "No DO's accepted for job"... Now if that isn't an MD vs. DO rivalry then what is?

Which hospitals have you been working at?

I have never encountered any MD vs DO issues once I entered med school. MD vs DO is a premed thing, at least in my experience. And I've never had any attendings give me the feeling that I know less because I am a DO resident. It's unfortunate that the hospitals you worked at gave you that impression.

 

[crys20]

Which hospitals have you been working at?

I have never encountered any MD vs DO issues once I entered med school. MD vs DO is a premed thing, at least in my experience. And I've never had any attendings give me the feeling that I know less because I am a DO resident. It's unfortunate that the hospitals you worked at gave you that impression.

The only anecdote I would have to add would be when speaking with my family pediatrician about how I was applying to DO schools...His response; "Why? You don't need to." 🙄

 

[OSUdoc08]

The only anecdote I would have to add would be when speaking with my family pediatrician about how I was applying to DO schools...His response; "Why? You don't need to." 🙄

What was YOUR response?

 

[DRNNHA]

Contrary to what most people believe here, the silly MD v. DO rivalry only occurs in the minds of inmmature un-exposed premeds.

True to that. I haven't heard MDs bashing on DOs. But I hear this a lot among the pre-med.

 

[DRNNHA]

Contrary to what most people believe here, the silly MD v. DO rivalry only occurs in the minds of inmmature un-exposed premeds.

True to that. I haven't heard MDs bashing on DOs. But I hear this a lot among the pre-med. Well, remember these pre-meds eventually go to med school and become MDs.

 

[medhacker]

True to that. I haven't heard MDs bashing on DOs. But I hear this a lot among the pre-med. Well, remember these pre-meds eventually go to med school and become MDs.

You have no idea the tons of crap pre-meds learn to unload themselves off once in medschool DRNNHA.

 

[DRNNHA]

You have no idea the tons of crap pre-meds learn to unload themselves off once in medschool DRNNHA.

That's true. Their negative ideas are still in their head of course. But they probably dare not to speak outloud. The mentality is still there even though it is unspoken.

 

[stoic]

Have any of you guys experienced or heard of any MD's saying negative things about DO's. I mean don't get me wrong, I know there are always bound to be idiots, but what about the majority? I was talking to someone before and this guy was telling me how all the MD's he knows say DO is the easy wayout. As a future DO, I can't help but become irritated. How do you guys respond?

Yo what's up,

I thought I might weigh in from over in MD land. I ended up going to my state school just becuase it's SOOOO much cheaper than going to an out of state or private DO school. BUT I actually had planned on going to DO schools for years. Most of my clinical experience has been with DO's and i've always really felt at ease around them. I've never seen a problem with MDs and DOs interacting. I have seen MD's ask DO's for help in reducing dislocations and then tell the patient "Dr. X is going to do this becauase as a DO he has more experience with this kind of procedure." Pretty cool if you ask me.

Only ONCE did someone give me crap for wanting to go DO. It was when I was a sophomore premed. Another premed told me "why would you do that, don't you want respect?" I'll admit it pissed me off, but honestly it matter SOOO little. One jerky premed.

It's been said here before, but its important: if you're a good doctor, nobody cares what the letters behind your name are. The same is true about being a good person; if you're a jerk, people will say "he's a jerk" not "he's jerk, D.O."

and in the end, i jumped ship becuase my state school was uber cheap compared to going out of state for DO school.... but I really do wish I could learn some manipulation.

So the bottome line is if you want to be a doctor, then it doesn't matter if you're an MD or DO. If you want to be a DO, then don't be afraid of going that route becuase of stupid stereotypes that exist pretty much only in the mind of premeds.



oh, and about the poster who said there was a "no DO's" job posting: 1) I also think he's lying. 2) if he's not, those physicians are a bunch of elitist jackasses and MD or DO, you don't want to work with people like that.

good luck! you'll be slogging through first year in no time! i promise it'll be here before you know what hit you!

 

[medhacker]

oh, and about the poster who said there was a "no DO's" job posting: 1) I also think he's lying. 2) if he's not,..

If it is true, it is illegal and they can be sued.

 

[Donvb]

I am not willing to believe that this is true. Not only is it extremely ignorant, but ILLEGAL. I am pretty sure they cannot discriminate outwardly like this (this harkens back to the times of “Irish need not apply”). Now, if this was their own thought, so be it, but to POST such OBVIOUS discrimination would only set you up to be sued (and I hope someone did so).

Go to MCMC.net... Then Careers... Then immediate job openings... This is the hospital I worked at and it SAYS "The opening is for a full time physician..." And later goes on to list, "MUST BE MD (no DO candidates)"... I know for a fact that the two Radiologists there are MD's, and I KNOW what they think about DO's... They greatly discouraged me from applying to DO school, but I did anyway🙂

For all of you that questioned my integrity, shame on you!! 😱

 

[USArmyDoc]

Go to MCMC.net... Then Careers... Then immediate job openings... This is the hospital I worked at and it SAYS "The opening is for a full time physician..." And later goes on to list, "MUST BE MD (no DO candidates)"... I know for a fact that the two Radiologists there are MD's, and I KNOW what they think about DO's... They greatly discouraged me from applying to DO school, but I did anyway🙂

For all of you that questioned my integrity, shame on you!! 😱

Well, we all knew there were a$$holes in every profession. Now what about real MD's, how do they feel about it? Those pieces of $hit are the people who know one likes regardless of their title.

 

[Senor Fish]

My wife works at a local teaching hospital in the surgery department. She says that the DO and MD residents are treated exactly the same. I can't speak to one or the other being more competitive to get into that residency however.

The DO i'm shadowing now says that, if anything, DO's have more against MD's than vice versa.

I personally haven't decided which to apply for yet. I'm still trying to figure out that whole internship year thing and how competitive each program might be for residencies.

Senor Fish

 

[supersash]

i work in a 5 physician practice, which consists of 4 MD's and 1 DO and there is no rivalry at all. i find some patients are ignorant, because THEY do not know what a DO is. but the doctor's get along great, and there are also many DO's at the hosptial.

i am not sure where you guys are all from, but i feel that DO's are very prominent where i'm from (NYC area) and definitly just as well respected.

 

[dr.z]

Go to MCMC.net... Then Careers... Then immediate job openings... This is the hospital I worked at and it SAYS "The opening is for a full time physician..." And later goes on to list, "MUST BE MD (no DO candidates)"... I know for a fact that the two Radiologists there are MD's, and I KNOW what they think about DO's... They greatly discouraged me from applying to DO school, but I did anyway🙂

For all of you that questioned my integrity, shame on you!! 😱

So they would take foreign MD over DO here?

 

[tshumard]

From what I have observed, almost all of the MD bashing of DO's occurs from the jerk MD's. It doesn't matter if your a DO or if you graduated from an 'inferior' school, these people bash anyone. They don't discriminate on any bashing that they can.

Basically, the MD's that do bash DO's will be bashing the people that go to state schools and get an MD just as much. These are the elitest a$$hole$ that make a lot of thing go wrong in society.

 

[cfdavid]

i work in a 5 physician practice, which consists of 4 MD's and 1 DO and there is no rivalry at all. i find some patients are ignorant, because THEY do not know what a DO is. but the doctor's get along great, and there are also many DO's at the hosptial.

i am not sure where you guys are all from, but i feel that DO's are very prominent where i'm from (NYC area) and definitly just as well respected.

Same as in Michigan, but I think we're the biggest DO state.

 

[DD214_DOC]

So they would take foreign MD over DO here?

No, read the website.

 

[Lindyhopper]

A split decision from my very limit experience. An MD MS III student told me that in NYC there was really no difference in treatment. In her exhausted state she added, "DO is just as f...ing hard."
An oncologist I know, however, suggested that one a DO may give acceptable treatment for back or muscular issues, but no one should see one for "serious internal medical issues".
But again a pretty small "n".

 

[cfdavid]

No, read the website.

Unfortunately, I'm sure that there are at least as many (which is really not many at all) advertisements for positions that specify for a DO, versus an MD.(i.e. a family practice group of DO's)

Sometimes, people just get caught up in that stuff. For one, in Rads, they may not have encountered as many DO counterparts as many MD's would, in say IM, FP, or OB etc. It's a fact that MOST DO's do something in primary care.

Or, they just think they're better trained. I suspect this is the case given that they don't want foreign trained MD's either. They're probably older docs that think they're better. That's gonna happen sometimes. But, I don't think it's the trend. Quite the opposite.

 

[beastmaster]

Go to MCMC.net... Then Careers... Then immediate job openings... This is the hospital I worked at and it SAYS "The opening is for a full time physician..." And later goes on to list, "MUST BE MD (no DO candidates)"...

Can they legally advertise like that?

Most states I know don't allow discrimination against board certified DOs.

 

[LabMonster]

I haven't seen any rivalry or bashing. We all just refer to Dr. So and So.

An incompetant doctor is an incompetant doctor - and at my hospital we all know those docs by name...