For all the Biomedical Engineers out there

[WiscDoc]

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Just thought I would start a thread for medical students that were biomedical engineers (or other engineers) as undergrad, and might miss their engineering years...any thoughts? What's it like going from mainly thinking to mainly memorizing?

 

[InternationlDoc]

Oh man do i miss it!

More thinking on those EE exams. I was bioelectrics and took buncha circuits and signals and systems.

so why do i miss it? we had respiratory physio and some cardio graph (frank starling blah blah) totally not on any practice test...all figuring it out - i got em all after thinking through them seriously...and missed a few memorizing items (actually more like sloppiness on my part)

I guess i miss all that "figuring out on the test then and there" part. I feel a monkey can memorize, psh...or may be I'm just bitter cuz a couple of multiple choices and i'd have had that A....

Anyways. I am planning on doing some MATLAB programming on CT scans or something this summer - I think.

 

[lil pook]

what's it like?

it's intellectual hell. that's what it's like.

there will be a few bright and sunny spots in physiology, and maybe a few in pathology, but for the most part, it is lifeless, with no creativity or spark.

there is no understanding. there is nothing to wrap your brain around, take your knowledge, and then build something unique with.

it is sad, bleak, miserable, and depressing.

my only happiness is getting to work with patients, and once in a while solving a complex case.


then again, they say it gets better...so here's to hoping it's true.

sorry, didn't mean to depress you. sometimes, i think my brain would have been better fulfilled had i stayed an engineer.

 

[Hurricane95]

I actually really miss BME sometimes...the other day I was walking through the bookstore and stood there mesmerized by a rapid review packet for "electrical circuits". How pathetic. I miss solving complex circuits and thinking with the analytical side of my brain...I'm sick of just using the memorizing random facts part...oh well, it'll get better third year with rotations and after step 1.

 

[Docster]

it's great starting med school and not having to think much anymore...i love it. i just hope the rest of med school is like this.

BME = staying up till 2 a.m. to finish some insanely difficult p-set involving lin alg, partial diff eqtns, matlab, etc. at least once a week.

Med school = 5 hrs of studying a day outside of class (we only have 2 hours of class/day at my school) during non-exam weeks and 8 of hrs of studying/day during the week leading up to an exam. Exams are every 2-3 weeks, usually are non-cum, so it's a very manageable amount of material.

I've found that, for the most part, if I put in the hours to memorize all the important details, I can get an A in med school (b/c questions are just testing for fact recall.)

In undergrad, it always depended on whether or not I could wrap my mind around the conceptual questions asked on exams (which usually required creative application of facts.)

 

[shadoctor]

what specialties do you guys think would be best for individuals with engineering backgrounds?

 

[lil pook]

cardiology seems to be a popular one, i think.

other than that, i don't know.

 

[DrZeke]

Just thought I would start a thread for medical students that were biomedical engineers (or other engineers) as undergrad, and might miss their engineering years...any thoughts? What's it like going from mainly thinking to mainly memorizing?

I'm entering med school next year...

My only regret in life is not having studied engineering or mathematics as an undergrad. I used to hate memorizing, and going from a world of problem solving to just memorization made my grades turn to hell, because it can be so time-consuming and boring. After 3 years of finally doing better in school and accepting how to study biological sciences, I know I am prepared for the fact that medicine is mostly memorization. Unfortunately, I guess it's sad, because that's how some stupid people end up in medicine 🙂. I know plenty a few people who got through my microbio major with all memorization who were airheads, but dedicated. Now they are in med school...

Just wanted to say that I sympathize with the jump from logic and thinking things through to memorization. Good luck to all of you!

 

[Bubb Rubb]

BME = staying up till 2 a.m. to finish some insanely difficult p-set involving lin alg, partial diff eqtns, matlab, etc. at least once a week.

Med school = 5 hrs of studying a day outside of class (we only have 2 hours of class/day at my school) during non-exam weeks and 8 of hrs of studying/day during the week leading up to an exam. Exams are every 2-3 weeks, usually are non-cum, so it's a very manageable amount of material.

i did CS, and my experience during the first two years was similar to that of Docster, except that i studied way less: i'd skip class, study for a few hours, and make up for it with a day and a half of 8 hours before a test. the first year felt much easier than undergrad, the second year felt twice as time-consuming but not necessarily harder, the ramp up to boards was more intense than any finals period during undergrad, and now the wards just suck up my life for the most part but do not require more than an hour or two of light reading when not exhausted.

what specialties do you guys think would be best for individuals with engineering backgrounds?

i'm thinking radiology. already did cardiology/imaging research, and it seems a good fit. numbers, physics, etc. 😀

 

[WiscDoc]

what specialties do you guys think would be best for individuals with engineering backgrounds?

Well, as a biomechanical engineer, I'm thinking orthopedics, since I already have taken many classes related to the mechanics of the body, fracture fixation, materials used in implants..etc.

Also, do you guys think you were at a disadvantage for not have taken a million bio and antomy courses as undergrads? My major as a BME required taking a simle physiology course, and I took biochem as an elective, but no anatomy? Any thoughts? You think it will be hard to shift to memorizing mode?

 

[Northerner]

What a great idea for a thread!

Now, (thankfully) we don't have to go 30 seconds without seeing another "Official Engineering Medical Students" thread where you all talk about how brilliant you are, how intellectually droll medical school is, and what a crime it is that your cerebral prowess is being wasted away on such trivial pursuits as medical school has turned out to be for you. Or what specialty is right for you, considering the vast mental power that you've got at your disposal. I'm sure the rest of allo will join me in eager anticipation to see what you all have to say.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=348169

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=347649

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=337355

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=344127

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=329263

There's a sample from the last month or so.

 

[turkleton]

Man northerner you sound bitter. I didn't major in engineering but took a bunch of math and physics classes in UG and I felt similar to what many of you are expressing now. It was tough adjusting from analytical based coursework to that more geared towards sheer memorization. The thing is, medicine becomes very analytical as you hit the wards and you see why they have such stringent requirements as to who they admit to medical school- you need to have certain intellecual capabilities to deal with complex problems in complex patients. Despite the previous rant, not too many people will argue that physiology is easier than advanced physics and engineering. But you put in the context of all the other discplines needed to treat a patient and pursue research in the field, it will become extremely intellectually satisfying.

 

[Northerner]

Man northerner you sound bitter. I didn't major in engineering but took a bunch of math and physics classes in UG and I felt similar to what many of you are expressing now. It was tough adjusting from analytical based coursework to that more geared towards sheer memorization. The thing is, medicine becomes very analytical as you hit the wards and you see why they have such stringent requirements as to who they admit to medical school- you need to have certain intellecual capabilities to deal with complex problems in complex patients. Despite the previous rant, not too many people will argue that physiology is easier than advanced physics and engineering. But you put in the context of all the other discplines needed to treat a patient and pursue research in the field, it will become extremely intellectually satisfying.

What the hell are you talking about - I'm as sweet as a barrel of sugar dipped in maple syrup.

 

[turkleton]

What the hell are you talking about - I'm as sweet as a barrel of sugar dipped in maple syrup.

Good point. Damn I like maple syrup.

 

[Northerner]

Good point. Damn I like maple syrup.

...and wrapped with an insulating layer of cotton candy. It's cold here.

 

[lil pook]

dont hate


appreciate

 

[Doctor Bagel]

What a great idea for a thread!

Now, (thankfully) we don't have to go 30 seconds without seeing another "Official Engineering Medical Students" thread where you all talk about how brilliant you are, how intellectually droll medical school is, and what a crime it is that your cerebral prowess is being wasted away on such trivial pursuits as medical school has turned out to be for you. Or what specialty is right for you, considering the vast mental power that you've got at your disposal. I'm sure the rest of allo will join me in eager anticipation to see what you all have to say.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=348169

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=347649

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=337355

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=344127

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=329263

There's a sample from the last month or so.

Okay, so I used to think you were a little harsh on this engineering thing, but now I'm with you. These threads pop up way too freaking often. Yes, engineers like to analyze. No, they don't like memorization. Okay, I got it. 🙂 The other thing that's irritating is that lots of us have backgrounds that aren't geared towards straight memorization, yet for some reasons the engineers bitch a little more than the rest of us.

So here's my proposal -- pick one thread and stick with it. Don't start new threads about this same topic once a month. Hell, maybe the mods can even sticky the thread.

 

[soonereng]

The other thing that's irritating is that lots of us have backgrounds that aren't geared towards straight memorization, yet for some reasons the engineers bitch a little more than the rest of us.

The reason we gripe about it more is probably our training to create the most efficient processes and products. There is no efficiency in a process that is binge and purge from test to test. When we look at med school, we see a process that could probably be greatly improved while still giving the same end product. Such as teaching us the things that we really need to know on a long term basis. Material that will give us the background to learn/understand more as the need arises, rather than cramming minutiae that we will forget after the test just because some guy needs to justify his area of research.

I do like the idea of a sticky though...

 

[lil pook]

yup..very little about med school that is 'efficient'

but i guess you really can't make anything you learn in med school really 'efficient' since they preach "repetition is equal to retention"

i don't remember anything in engineering that was memorizable...since every test i ever took was open book

how does every one else do it? how do we make it 'efficient'?

help please!!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

i don't remember anything in engineering that was memorizable...since every test i ever took was open book

Hey, all the tests I took in law school were open book. Business majors focus on improving efficiency. Liberal arts majors try to discover flaws in arguments. We're all in here surviving this med school thing. I really don't buy that engineers have more difficulty than the rest of us.

Mods -- I'm getting serious about this sticky thing. 🙂

 

[soonereng]

I really don't buy that engineers have more difficulty than the rest of us.

I too doubt that it is necessarily more difficult for engineers than others. I think it probably just goes against the grain of our beings more than others though.

 

[lil pook]

i'm not allowed to vent?

wow....sorry😡

 

[Doctor Bagel]

i'm not allowed to vent?

wow....sorry😡

You can vent. We all like to vent. It just seems like some new person starts this exact thread every 4 days. If it were just one long thread that you all participated in, it'd be great. I'm just sick of seeing the constant new threads about engineers in medical school.

 

[Northerner]

i'm not allowed to vent?

wow....sorry😡

You're going to be criticized if your "venting" comes off like elitist whining in a thinly-veiled attempt to flex your imaginary intellectual edge over the mere mortals.

 

[soonereng]

You're going to be criticized if your "venting" comes off like elitist whining in a thinly-veiled attempt to flex your imaginary intellectual edge over the mere mortals.

Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex...

 

[lil pook]

if it bothers you all, then please refrain from reading the thread 😀

 

[Doctor Bagel]

if it bothers you all, then please refrain from reading the thread 😀

That'd be easier if it weren't posted as a new topic every few days. 🙂

 

[lil pook]

there are many repeat threads here on SDN...no need to get your panties in a bunch 🙂

(not you bagel!)

 

[Northerner]

Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex...

Ah yes, the classic SDN argument trick: accuse the other person of being insecure. You know what? You're right. We're all jealous. I can't wait for next week's rendition of this thread.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

there are many repeat threads here on SDN...no need to get your panties in a bunch 🙂

(not you bagel!)

That's true. I still think a sticky would be cool. 🙂 We non-science types could get our own sticky, too. Then the biology majors could get a sticky and talk about how easy everything is because they already learned it in ugrad. 😡

 

[lil pook]

i wasn't aware of that being an exclusive 'sdn' trick

i think someone needs a nice, warm bath and a foot massage

 

[Northerner]

That's true. I still think a sticky would be cool. 🙂 We non-science types could get our own sticky, too. Then the biology majors could get a sticky and talk about how easy everything is because they already learned it in ugrad. 😡

But then where would I do my whining?!

I need a home.

 

[lil pook]

i will listen northerner, i will listen

whine away.

what ails you?

 

[Northerner]

i will listen northerner, i will listen

whine away.

what ails you?

Engineers.

 

[soonereng]

You know what? You're right. We're all jealous.

Great! Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. That will be $350 please. 😀

 

[soonereng]

That's true. I still think a sticky would be cool. 🙂 We non-science types could get our own sticky, too. Then the biology majors could get a sticky and talk about how easy everything is because they already learned it in ugrad. 😡

Great idea, make it so Bagel.

 

[WiscDoc]

I was really never aware of the fact that there soo many threads for engineers. I wouldn't have started this one if I knew. Since I am starting medical school in August, I was wondering what it is like. I've seen threads for PAs, and I saw no less than 10 threads with "I failed a class please help" with a lot of repeated stuff.

Disclaimer: I went into engineering knowing I wanted to go to med school, I just wanted to be technology friendly as a doctor, which engineering has made me. I think medical school is superior to engineering school, which is why I'm going to med school.

Anyways, ture that there are many students of other majors, and I think the reason they don't start a thread is that their major was not really a career or a profession like engineering is. If you were a bio major, you were eitehr going to professional/grad school, or you were doomed!! Engineers have great futures, and it is a real major. No offense.

 

[soonereng]

i will listen northerner, i will listen

whine away.

what ails you?

Engineers.

Nice.

Might I inquire as to your undergrad training? It might explain the animosity toward we elitist engineers with our imaginary mental edges over the mere mortals. (Just pointing out that you started the name-calling first.)

And why can't we engineers have imaginary mental edges? We're accustomed to dealing with imaginary numbers that mathmatically describe real systems, so why not imaginary mental edges? Maybe our imaginary mental edges also describe a real situation. Anything's possible.

 

[want2beadoc]

You just reminded me of phasors. Thanks 🙂 Oh the good ole days of imaginary numbers, fluid mechanics, diff eqns... brings a tear to my eye.

 

[p9142]

For the engineering currently in Medical School. How long did it take you to adapt from thinking analytically to straight memorization? I hope the transition is not too painful.

 

[WiscDoc]

Why is this thread slowing down? Where are the BMEs????

 

[SonicHedgehogDO]

I haven't started med school yet (I'll start in august 🙂 ), but I am currently in a post-bac where I'm taking a couple of medical school courses. I was a biomechanics major just like you WiscDoc (and at a Wisconsin school too!) so I can understand where you're coming from. The transition is a little tough at first but you catch on quickly. The nice thing about having an engineering background is that it's really easy to snap into analytical mode when needed.
I didn't care much for circuits and signals/systems but boy do I miss transport, gait, and bone stress testing. I think my TI-89 has gone suicidal. The batteries started leaking...

 

[SnowTown]

Get off your high horses stupid engineers. Not everyone is into engineering, doesn't mean they're mindless drones.

...
Despite the previous rant, not too many people will argue that physiology is easier than advanced physics and engineering.
...

I don't know man, the phsiology class I took is pretty easy compared to advanced engineering classes. Or maybe my professors were just damn good at lecturing.

 

[Robizzle]

Who cares if engineers think more, ENG = expect no girls, and that's why im doin medicine baby!

 

[GAdoc]

Great thread!

I'm a proud Mercer University Biomedical Engineer, and even more proud to be attending medical school at my alma mater. Our engineering school represents well in medical schools (yall may be yawning, but compared to the other Mercer colleges, it's pretty impressive).

I chose engineering with the intent of going to medical school all along. I wanted to take LOTS of science and math courses and stay away from humanities, social sciences, etc. Ironically, the few I couldn't get away from ended up being some of my favorite in college!

I will definately miss the analytical approach to problem solving. I hate that I spent four years learning all that calculus, thermodynamics, circuit analysis, etc. for no reason. However, maybe all those biomechanics courses will come in handy when applying to residency (like ortho). We'll see.

 

[osin83]

The problem solving skills will without a doubt come into play in practice. I was a Biomedical Engineer in undergrad, and loved it. I worked with clinicians on 2 separate projects and bridging engineering with medicine was the coolest thing i was ever part of, and basically solidified my choice to go to med school.

I like IM and it's branches mainly for the use of labs and tests in the diagnosis process. I could never see myself insomething like derm. Once you get the chance to clinically apply your knowledge (the key to engineering) it will without a doubt get you way more excited about that fact you made the decision to become a doc!!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I definitely can't see someone with an engineering background going into some menial specialty like IM. Definitely pick something challenging. Once you get the chance to clinically apply your knowledge (the key to engineering) it will without a doubt get you way more excited about that fact you made the decision to become a doc!!

IM is menial. Yeah, there's no problem solving or intellectual work involved in diagnosing and treating illnesses. 🙄 My advice -- wait until you start med school before you knock medical specialties.

 

[Robizzle]

I am engineering undergrad and I think many of you need to get off this right now:

The other kids get it. We analyze and think in our classes more than they do. We hate memorization because it doesn't involve real thinking. We've said it 5000 times already. They get it. Now cmon, you're making us look bad!

 

[WiscDoc]

I dont understand why we are "making us look bad" ... this thread wasn't started to glorify engineers or to put down non-engineers. This thread was started for engineers to discuss their experiences as engineers & futrue doctors. Anyone is welcomed to read this thread and even post, but if someone feels inferior because they think their own major is/was meaningless or inferior to engineering, then I don't see how that is our fault. I am still an undergrad, and I will be going to medical school next August. I respect all other majors, and any name calling you see in this thread was because others started it!!

 

[Docster]

I don't think engineering majors look down on non-engineering folks unless they're majoring in something like history or English, which basically entail creatively spitting what your professor told you during class back onto exams and papers to get a good grade (at least at the college level). Even then, I'm pretty sure that this is just a coping mechanism, b/c deep down, they're kicking themselves for making college more difficult than it had to be -- at least I feel that way😉

The only upside I've found is that every doc I've talked has the (mis)conception that those with an engineering background are inherently better problem solvers. There was an article published in an orthopod journal (I think in 2002) about all the factors ortho residency directors take into consideration in their evaluation of applicants -- one factor (albeit low on the totem pole) was the applicant having a B.S. in engineering.