For Dentists practicing more than 15 years

[dent for the win]

1) any advice on what you wish you did in terms of paying off loans?

2) How long did it take you to open your own practice?

3) do you feel it was worth it/would you do it all over again?

4) did anyone go into the boonies for work and after a few years move back to a saturated area like NYC/Cali?

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[Saddleshoes]

Oh man you don't want to hear from me. (But I will answer just to drive everybody nuts.)

1) LOANS: I don't have any advice as I graduated owning $0.00. I graduated from one of the least expensive state schools in he country. I also had a "sweat of the brow" scholarship for a good part of my schooling.
2) TIME TO OWN PRACTICE: 45 days. I could have done it sooner but I had to wait on the state for my license to be issued. I started seeking out towns in need of a dentist early in my senior year. I found town that had just had 2 old timers retire. The city fathers worked out a deal with me that a dentist in today's dental economic world would never get.
3) DO IT AGAIN: Yes, but young dentists these days can no longer do it the way I did.
4) BOONIES?: Yes! I went to a town of 3000 and hit the ground running. I hit my 5 year goals in 2 years. After 9 years is was boring and time for a change so I sold out and moved on.

 

[Daurang]

1) paying off loans?
I paid off my $250k dental school loan within 5 years. Initially, I only paid the minimum required. Then one day I saw on my statement that my loan balance kept increasing instead of decreasing; so I wrote check and paid in full.

2) how long to open your own practice?
As soon as I got my state license, I took $80k construction loan from Schein to construct new practice from scratch. It was 2-ops and then expanded to 3-ops a year later.

3) was worth it/do it all over again?
A $80k loan that returned income of $175k 1st year, $250k 2nd yr, $350k 3rd year, $450k 4th year, etc?...OF COURSE it was worth it for me.
However, I wouldn't do over again today because I wouldn't even go to dental school today. It's not worth the $1 MIL in undergrad/dental school loan plus another $500k for practice loan. I told my son "...be a plumber or electrician so you'll be a multi-millionaire by 30."

4) boonies for work and after a few years move back to NYC/Cali?
I'm from NorCal and my wife is from SoCal. We returned to Cali after dental school but then left a Cali year later. When I saw a 1999 census report that showed there were more dental offices in Cali than auto repair shops, I knew it was time to leave if I wanna be rich and retire early. That was a great financial/tax decision so I do not miss nor plan to go back to Cali.

 

[deleted659902]

I told my son "...be a plumber or electrician so you'll be a multi-millionaire by 30."

I used to laugh at this notion. Not anymore. Heck, any small business/startup in a recession-resistant sector that weathers the initial lag phase can beat an associate dentist when it comes to income and years spent in schooling. But alas, an ego is a huge hurdle to overcome when selecting a career.

i.e. I am Mr. Joe the plumber vs I am Dr. Joe the dentist.

 

[ysrebob]

Note that the experiences of dentists who graduated 15+ years ago (or even 10+ years ago) will have been quite different from what you should expect for yourself.

After a decade or two of astonishingly great business conditions, dentistry shifted dramatically around 2006-2008, becoming more competitive. Dentists who were already well-established in busy offices felt this change less acutely than those who were just getting started. There is every reason to believe that conditions will continue to grow more challenging for all of us in this field going forward.

Dentistry is still an excellent profession and most of us would do it all again even now, but entering this field now is more difficult than it was for a period before circa 2007. This is apart from higher average student debt level, which is only an exacerbating factor.

 

[2TH MVR]

Note that the experiences of dentists who graduated 15+ years ago (or even 10+ years ago) will have been quite different from what you should expect for yourself.

After a decade or two of astonishingly great business conditions, dentistry shifted dramatically around 2006-2008, becoming more competitive. Dentists who were already well-established in busy offices felt this change less acutely than those who were just getting started. There is every reason to believe that conditions will continue to grow more challenging for all of us in this field going forward.

Dentistry is still an excellent profession and most of us would do it all again even now, but entering this field now is more difficult than it was for a period before circa 2007. This is apart from higher average student debt level, which is only an exacerbating factor.

I agree with this. I guess the real question is will it get better. I would like to believe that everything is cyclical. Business climate was good prior to 2006. Now it is super competitive. It could turn and be good again. Over-saturation of dentists/specialists/Dental Corps, etc. followed by fewer dental school applicants, followed by non-subsidized private dental school closings, followed by fewer dentists causing a shortage. Could happen.

 

[Daurang]

There are constantly new regulations making our work more difficult, dentistry less enjoyable, and costing us more money. There's added competition against stand-alone hygienists, public health hygienists, dental therapists, foreign dentists from international US-accredited schools, etc. I entered this field by accident (followed gf to dental school) and never regretted it but I wouldn't do it again today.

 

[charlestweed]

I am not qualified to answer these questions because I am an orthodontist and have had much easier time than the general dentists. So I represent my sister, who has practiced general dentistry since the early 2000s, to answer the OP's questions.

1. My sister owed approximately $80-100k in student loan. Her husband, who is a physician, made around $100-120k at that time. After graduation, they both lived with my parents for 3 years to save money…and free babysitting. I don’t know how soon she paid off her student loan but I know that she currently owns 4 properties (including her $800k house and $1.2 million office building), which she already paid them off.

2. She started an office from scratch in 2003 or 2004…about 2-3 years after graduation. 7-8 years later, she sold it (a leasehold sale) and moved all her patients to the new office building, which she owns. It’s a small practice with 3 chairs, 1 front desk, 1 assistant.

3. Yes, she thinks it is worth it but she wants all her kids to become doctors like her husband. After 2 years of college, she applied for pharmacy schools but didn’t get accepted. So she went on to complete her BS degree, applied for dental schools, and got accepted to a cheap state school. She’s glad that she is not a pharmacist….no autonomy, non-flexible work hours etc.

4. She practices in Orange County, CA.

 

[theleatherwalle]

I am absolutely amazed by how cheap it was open a business back then. Wife and I are finally taking out a loan for my own practice, and I cannot fathom making that much. My collections would essentially have to double to reach 300k of income My friend in socal said he most jobs don't even guarantee 100k in Orange County.

Edit: I am in the process of buying a private practice, well leasing a site for my future office. If this community desires, I can make a thread about it with possibly weekly updates.

 

[charlestweed]

I am absolutely amazed by how cheap it was open a business back then. Wife and I are finally taking out a loan for my own practice, and I cannot fathom making that much. My collections would essentially have to double to reach 300k of income My friend in socal said he most jobs don't even guarantee 100k in Orange County.

Edit: I am in the process of buying a private practice, well leasing a site for my future office. If this community desires, I can make a thread about it with possibly weekly updates.

It’s still cheap to open a practice here in CA right now. If you look at several dental broker websites, there are several leasehold sales that are around $50-60k….and you get everything inside the office: the existing plumbings and walls (which cost a ton of money to build), dental chairs, x ray unit, sterilizer, furniture etc. Some dentists sell their brand new offices with all the equipment for under $120k because the partnership thing don't work out, they decide to move to another state, or they change their mind about starting an office etc. There are also several dying smaller existing practices are also listed for under $150k….you just need to take over, work hard, advertise, and build it back up…it’s better and cheaper than starting one from scratch.

Practicing dentistry won’t make you rich….unless you are a crooked dentist, who over-treats every patient. Dentistry is just a small business. My sister and I were able to pay off our student loans and several of our investment properties quickly not because we make a lot of money from practicing dentistry. Our good dental incomes have allowed us to invest in real estates. Home prices in CA always appreciate, and never depreciate. Thanks to the beautiful weather and better employment opportunities here in CA.

 

[dent for the win]

Thank you everyone for your feedback! Can anyone also speak on what the process has been like in terms of findinga good dental assistant? From shadowing I would say that it isn't guaranteed that there will be adequate assistants and I'm also a little worried about the turn over in terms of people quitting or getting fired.

 

[ysrebob]

Thank you everyone for your feedback! Can anyone also speak on what the process has been like in terms of findinga good dental assistant? From shadowing I would say that it isn't guaranteed that there will be adequate assistants and I'm also a little worried about the turn over in terms of people quitting or getting fired.

Least of your worries. In the course of your career, every position in your office will turn over multiple times. Whether as a dentist or in any other small business, your employees should be valuable partners in your efforts, but you never want to put yourself in the position of having an assistant or any other employee who is "irreplaceable."


Edit: maintain a file of promising resumes from people who have gone thru dental assisting schools. Or my preference: carry business cards with you and when you run into someone in customer service who is really outstanding/energetic/positive (wait staff, cashier, etc - doesn't matter) give them your card and ask if they've ever considered working in health professions: dental asst is a position with minimal credentialing requirements in most states - you can hire for personality, pay their way through x-ray certification, and train in your office on the fly.