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I bet that your school didn't tell you about their patient policies.

Did you know that at some schools, if you see a patient and they do not pay, you will have to pay their bill if you want to get credit for their procedure?

How does that make you feel?

So, if it gets close to graduation and you have 10 patients that haven't paid, you may need to bump up that loan to buy some credits!!!!!

That stinks huh?
 

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People that have investigated know this. Anyway its just like real life collecting in a practice.

Hot pickle baby said:
I bet that your school didn't tell you about their patient policies.

Did you know that at some schools, if you see a patient and they do not pay, you will have to pay their bill if you want to get credit for their procedure?

How does that make you feel?

So, if it gets close to graduation and you have 10 patients that haven't paid, you may need to bump up that loan to buy some credits!!!!!

That stinks huh?
 

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Yes, we were told this in the UF interview.

I could not care less for two reasons,
1. (as stated before) In practice, you don't have a school to collect your fees.. so why should they baby you and take care of it for you?

2. Tons of people graduate from dental school every year. So apparently, it is not that big of a deal.

-C
 
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this issue came up during all my interviews and none said that the students would have to pay. the tour guide at penn said that a student wouldnt get credit, but she said she had never heard of it happening.
 

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Temple has the policy and did it bother my decision. Look at the sig :D
There is a thread in the 'dental' section of a Temple student answering this question. Make sure you check to see if the patients insurance is active EVERY time and have them pay up front. He's a senior and has had two people not pay so far, but it is being sent to collections. Just like the real world. :eek:
 

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I think the OP needs to research this policy and dental schools more himself.

First of all, if a school holds a student accountable for any unpaid patient fees, the student isnt given credit for his/her work either, so you will know within a day or so and wont come to you by surprise 2 years later.

Secondly, it is not the responsibility of the school to inform you of this during the application process. Rather, it is the applicants responsibility to research ALL ASPECTS OF DENTAL SCHOOL AND DENTISTRY before applying. If you dont like that a certain school holds you accountable for unpaid patient fees, don't apply there.

Many schools have taken the step of teaching practice management further and require the student to have generated certain amount of money by the time they graduate (a graduation requirement).
 

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I had heard this from some other applicants and dental students, so I asked the 5 schools I interviewed at, and none of them go by this policy (Penn, tufts, harvard, uconn, buffalo). I think they were mentioning it in reference to Temple, though it does seem like a few out there make it the students' responsibility to pay for noncompliant pts.

It's very true that this is the real world...I suppose the schools just decide for themselves which would be a worse headache.

The students I asked were aghast that some schools actually do that, so I don't think it's as common as people think. They said that if a patient doesn't pay, you stop treatment right there (if it's possible).
 

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I'mFillingFine said:
if a patient doesn't pay, you stop treatment right there (if it's possible).

Dental student to a patient: "Give me another $50 or I wont yank out the rest of the tooth I am extracting!"

Sorry, this is the image came to mind :laugh:
 

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Think about how much money passes through the hands of dental schools. We already know that the students have to pay through the nose for their education, but how much money is the school bringing in off the clinic? Ya the costs are discounted (around half of what it would cost else were), but it sounds like a good deal to the school having students pay to work for free in thier clinics.
 

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Dutchboy said:
Think about how much money passes through the hands of dental schools. We already know that the students have to pay through the nose for their education, but how much money is the school bringing in off the clinic? Ya the costs are discounted (around half of what it would cost else were), but it sounds like a good deal to the school having students pay to work for free in thier clinics.


The reason that I brought this up is because once I was accepted I spoke to some of the dental school students and they started opening up to me like they were in a confessional.

Dont get me wrong, they dont have to pay for patients procedures at this school, however if the patient doesnt pay then they have to if they want to get the credit for the work.

Thats a real bummer cause I am going to have enough trouble paying for the tuition and living expenses anyway because my parents have both passed away and basically were poor and didnt leave me a thing.

Just another obstacle.
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
The reason that I brought this up is because once I was accepted I spoke to some of the dental school students and they started opening up to me like they were in a confessional.

Dont get me wrong, they dont have to pay for patients procedures at this school, however if the patient doesnt pay then they have to if they want to get the credit for the work.

Thats a real bummer cause I am going to have enough trouble paying for the tuition and living expenses anyway because my parents have both passed away and basically were poor and didnt leave me a thing.

Just another obstacle.
Ya thats kinda my point. It's ridiculous that after your working in thier clinic bringing in money, and your actually paying to work for them, that they turn around and make you pay some more for something thats out of your hands. :mad:
 

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At UPenn, we were told that no procedure is done until it is paid for by the patient. And all of that is handled by the reception desk at the clinic so students don't have to deal with money. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
 
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Audio said:
At UPenn, we were told that no procedure is done until it is paid for by the patient. And all of that is handled by the reception desk at the clinic so students don't have to deal with money. Can anyone confirm or deny this?


Well theres no way thats true. How do they operate? Are they cash basis only? Dont they take insurance? Insurance companies dont pay until the procedures are perfomed.

If they didnt take insurance I would imagine that the people would go to real dentists and be in and out in 30 minutes and have their insurance company billed for the balance rather than have to go to a student for a 3 hour sitting and have to pay cash up front and then wait for a reimbursement.

That wouldnt work.

I think that they lied to you man.
 

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I meant the patients that don't have insurance have to pay before the procedure is done.

And anyways, if a patient has insurance, and the info is taken, can they refuse to have their insurance cover the work once it is done?
 

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I'mFillingFine said:
I had heard this from some other applicants and dental students, so I asked the 5 schools I interviewed at, and none of them go by this policy (Penn, tufts, harvard, uconn, buffalo). I think they were mentioning it in reference to Temple, though it does seem like a few out there make it the students' responsibility to pay for noncompliant pts.

It's very true that this is the real world...I suppose the schools just decide for themselves which would be a worse headache.

The students I asked were aghast that some schools actually do that, so I don't think it's as common as people think. They said that if a patient doesn't pay, you stop treatment right there (if it's possible).
So at those schools you interviewed at, if your patient doesnt pay, do you still get credit for the procedure?
 

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Audio said:
At UPenn, we were told that no procedure is done until it is paid for by the patient.
why does this suprise you? Why would anyone do an expensive procedure on someone until it is paid for or a deposit is put down? At my school you can do the procedure without the patients paying the student, but these are the same students who end up getting screwed, taken advantage of, and have to front the bills at the end. Not really good management if you ask me.
 

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Dr.BadVibes said:
why does this suprise you? Why would anyone do an expensive procedure on someone until it is paid for or a deposit is put down? At my school you can do the procedure without the patients paying the student, but these are the same students who end up getting screwed, taken advantage of, and have to front the bills at the end. Not really good management if you ask me.

It doesn't surprise me. I agree, it should be like this. I just don't get how students end up paying for procedures they did FOR FREE out of their pockets. That shocks me.
 

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Audio said:
It doesn't surprise me. I agree, it should be like this. I just don't get how students end up paying for procedures they did FOR FREE out of their pockets. That shocks me.
I dont get your post? If the student is dumb enough to do a procedure on a patient without payment or some sort of deposit, dont you think the student should pay? Otherwise, everyone would be lazy and take advantage of the system.
 

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Audio said:
I meant the patients that don't have insurance have to pay before the procedure is done.

And anyways, if a patient has insurance, and the info is taken, can they refuse to have their insurance cover the work once it is done?

Why? Would they want to pay for it themselves?

I wouldnt think so.

good q
 

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Dr.BadVibes said:
I dont get your post? If the student is dumb enough to do a procedure on a patient without payment or some sort of deposit, dont you think the student should pay? Otherwise, everyone would be lazy and take advantage of the system.

It will be interesting in a few years to see how this goes. By then we will just want to graduate dental school and we will probably be very willing to pay for everything to just get done.
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
It will be interesting in a few years to see how this goes. By then we will just want to graduate dental school and we will probably be very willing to pay for everything to just get done.
Ya, I know this type of stuff happens. My friend at Louisville offered to fly my wife out from Salt Lake because she had some good interproximal work that he could do for credit.
 

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Audio said:
At UPenn, we were told that no procedure is done until it is paid for by the patient. And all of that is handled by the reception desk at the clinic so students don't have to deal with money. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I think there is some truth to this. To clarify some of the insurance/no insurance thing, during our tour at Penn, they brought us to the "insurance office", where ALL new patients go first. That's where Medicaid patients see what Medicaid will pay, those with insurance get all their info sorted out, and all the others work out some kind of plan. NO student gets a patient until they've gone through that whole system. Maybe that's how they can ensure that they get payment first...?

I didn't see another dental school that had a whole office system just for initiating new patients. Maybe they're just extra sure to cover their asses...? Either way, it looked good to me!
 
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So how do schools, like Temple, receive payment? I understand the majority of patients are on medical assistance and are covered by medicaid, but doesn't medicaid only pay for certain procedures (fillings, extractions). How do these low income patients pay for any other services needed. I asked this question at several of my interviews, but never received an appropriate answer. From what I remember, NOVA does not accept medicaid. I guess it's all private insurance or out-of-pocket for them.
 

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DentalNerd said:
So how do schools, like Temple, receive payment? I understand the majority of patients are on medical assistance and are covered by medicaid, but doesn't medicaid only pay for certain procedures (fillings, extractions). How do these low income patients pay for any other services needed. I asked this question at several of my interviews, but never received an appropriate answer. From what I remember, NOVA does not accept medicaid. I guess it's all private insurance or out-of-pocket for them.

makes you wonder how the hell they get patients.

I know for a price reduction of 10-15% I wouldnt think of going to a student and sitting there for 3 hours.

I would go to an experienced dentist who will have me in and out and fix my problem correctly the FIRST TIME.
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
makes you wonder how the hell they get patients.

I know for a price reduction of 10-15% I wouldnt think of going to a student and sitting there for 3 hours.

I would go to an experienced dentist who will have me in and out and fix my problem correctly the FIRST TIME.
Damn dude, now your making fun of dental students in general.
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
makes you wonder how the hell they get patients.

I know for a price reduction of 10-15% I wouldnt think of going to a student and sitting there for 3 hours.

I would go to an experienced dentist who will have me in and out and fix my problem correctly the FIRST TIME.
The only dental insurance Nova accepts is Medicaid (I have yet to get a memo stating otherwise). And as you know Medicaid only pays for a handful of procedures.

Yes patients are suppose to pay for all procedures prior to beginning a procedure. However if I finish my planned procedure and if I have time to begin another I am not going to tell my patient that they need to pay before I can start. Besides If your patient has a balance their chart is placed on hold until that balance is paid and before anything can be sent to a lab the patient must have a zero balance- that usually gives the patient time to pay since we do a lot of lab work before things are sent to the lab.

As far as patients at Nova-we do have lots of patients. There have been several times when I have been unable to book a chair because clinic was full. The problem is finding compliant patients to help us meet our requirements.

And as far as going to an experienced dentist to fix the problem correctly the first time-have you spoken to any patients yet??? You will find many patients who were unhappy with their "experienced dentist" and decided to come to the school. Yes appts take much longer (2.5-4 hours) but they also know that quality isn't compromised. Everything we do- each step of the procedure is being checked and re-checked by an experience faculty member.
 

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RubySlippers said:
The only dental insurance Nova accepts is Medicaid (I have yet to get a memo stating otherwise). And as you know Medicaid only pays for a handful of procedures.

Yes patients are suppose to pay for all procedures prior to beginning a procedure. However if I finish my planned procedure and if I have time to begin another I am not going to tell my patient that they need to pay before I can start. Besides If your patient has a balance their chart is placed on hold until that balance is paid and before anything can be sent to a lab the patient must have a zero balance- that usually gives the patient time to pay since we do a lot of lab work before things are sent to the lab.

As far as patients at Nova-we do have lots of patients. There have been several times when I have been unable to book a chair because clinic was full. The problem is finding compliant patients to help us meet our requirements.

And as far as going to an experienced dentist to fix the problem correctly the first time-have you spoken to any patients yet??? You will find many patients who were unhappy with their "experienced dentist" and decided to come to the school. Yes appts take much longer (2.5-4 hours) but they also know that quality isn't compromised. Everything we do- each step of the procedure is being checked and re-checked by an experience faculty member.


Hey not to be rude but if you are telling me that patients would rather sit for 3-4 hours and see a student who is flippin fresh and unexperienced as opposed to going to an experienced dentist who functions smoothly you are CRAZY!

You won't win this argument. Not today, not tomorrow so don't try, that would be idiotic.

:laugh:
 

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hockeydentist said:
Damn dude, now your making fun of dental students in general.


Na, just saying, I DONT MESS AROUND WITH MY HEALTH.

Not making fun of students.

MERELY stating that they are STUDENTS, not doctors.

At the school I just got in, all patients have to wear glasses now when the dentists work on them because a STUDENT nearly poked a patients eye out with an instrument.

Can that happen with an experienced dentist? SURE! Will it? PROBABLY NOT.


Thats all I am gettin at.
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
Na, just saying, I DONT MESS AROUND WITH MY HEALTH.

Not making fun of students.

MERELY stating that they are STUDENTS, not doctors.

At the school I just got in, all patients have to wear glasses now when the dentists work on them because a STUDENT nearly poked a patients eye out with an instrument.

Can that happen with an experienced dentist? SURE! Will it? PROBABLY NOT.


Thats all I am gettin at.
Hey Pickle, have you stoped to think how you are going to learn to give injections in dental school? Guess what? The students learn by giving shots to each other! Open wide Pickle boy! Oh wait, you might want to put on some glasses, I'm a little shaky and on the nervous side. :smuggrin:
 

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Hey Pickle, have you stoped to think how you are going to learn to give injections in dental school? Guess what? The students learn by giving shots to each other! Open wide Pickle boy! Oh wait, you might want to put on some glasses, I'm a little shaky and on the nervous side. :smuggrin:



ACTUALLY, I have thought of it and here is why,

I shadowed a dentist that told me when he was in dental school, he was assisting another student and that the student was workin on a little old lady and when he put the needle in that he went right through the buccal mucosa and out the other side of her cheek.

He said the salivary juices spashed his scrubs and he fell out of his chair.

Said it was the most gross thing that he has seen in his career.

I asked how the patient was and he said that he never found out.

When he fell and hit the floor he got knocked out and when he woke up he was in the emergency room.

Interesting huh?
 

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I have to stop reading your posts. I just went from teasing and laughing at you to scared ****less! Thanks alot Pickle.
 

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Dutchboy said:
I have to stop reading your posts. I just went from teasing and laughing at you to scared ****less! Thanks alot Pickle.


well the pickle doesnt lie. I have heard of this happening before.

Heres another story since I am on this ramble,

When I shadowed at the dental clinic in my hometown, I shadowed with 2 others and we watched oral surgery all day.

That morning, this girl was watching and she got sick and passed out and hit her head on the floor and they called an ambulance because she was bleeding bad.

Now the clinic has a new policy - Since its a free clinic, students can still shadow a dentist at his discretion, but if they have never shadowed before they must sit and take frequent breaks.


I am not sure if it grossed her out or if she just got a head rush from standing so long.

We were watching an alveolarectomy which was fairly grose.
 
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Hot pickle baby said:
I shadowed a dentist that told me when he was in dental school, he was assisting another student and that the student was workin on a little old lady and when he put the needle in that he went right through the buccal mucosa and out the other side of her cheek.
Ive heard of that happening too. Those block injections can be tough, especially the first time around. Cant wait to make a classmate my victim.
 

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Rezdawg said:
Ive heard of that happening too. Those block injections can be tough, especially the first time around. Cant wait to make a classmate my victim.

If the student sends a needle through my skin, he BETTER EXPECT ONE IS GOING THROUGH HIS !
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
Hey not to be rude but if you are telling me that patients would rather sit for 3-4 hours and see a student who is flippin fresh and unexperienced as opposed to going to an experienced dentist who functions smoothly you are CRAZY!
He not to be rude but this is only true if you have a choice, but we're talking about patients who seek treatment at a dental school....which is usually for financial reasons. Most of mine were retired and time didn't matter. And the discounts were HUGE at my school....crowns for $250, etc.
 

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toofache32 said:
He not to be rude but this is only true if you have a choice, but we're talking about patients who seek treatment at a dental school....which is usually for financial reasons. Most of mine were retired and time didn't matter. And the discounts were HUGE at my school....crowns for $250, etc.


Well thats not the story at my school. A crown is $600.

An extraction is $60. Yes $60.

In private practice locally it costs $72.

So they are basically letting someone wet behind the ears pull a tooth as opposed to an experienced individual to save $12 and two hours of time.

Also, I dont know many low income people who want crowns, they usually say JUST PULL THE DAMN THING DOC, PULL EM ALL.

I have heard that A L O T !
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
Well thats not the story at my school. A crown is $600.

An extraction is $60. Yes $60.

In private practice locally it costs $72.

So they are basically letting someone wet behind the ears pull a tooth as opposed to an experienced individual to save $12 and two hours of time.

Also, I dont know many low income people who want crowns, they usually say JUST PULL THE DAMN THING DOC, PULL EM ALL.

I have heard that A L O T !
Crown for $600? No wonder your only getting 15% discounts at your school. The rates at my school are generally 1/4 to 1/3 the rates of private practice. Plus, if you're over 65 or family of a student, you get an additional 15% off.

And like I said in the other thread regarding paying for patients, YOU are the one who is ultimately responsible if you end up paying. All the mistakes are common (read: same ones happens every year) and AVOIDABLE by the student. You just have to take the initiative and put in the minimal effort needed to stay on top of things. It's really not rocket science but if you don't get things straight when you first get into clinic, you're gonna be in a world of hurt come graduation time.
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
makes you wonder how the hell they get patients.

I know for a price reduction of 10-15% I wouldnt think of going to a student and sitting there for 3 hours.

I would go to an experienced dentist who will have me in and out and fix my problem correctly the FIRST TIME.

you would think that, but if you need to realize that most patients at dental schools are poor and this is their only option. so while 10-15% might not seem that much to you, that might be too expensive for most of the patients.

as for the students paying for procedures talk above i have heard that happening at more than just a few schools, however, its not like it happens every other week. i feel like temple gets a bad rap for this, but its not like it happens to just them or their students every day. think of it this way, if you have a procedure that might be relatively hard to find, you spend 3 weeks of hard work/lab work/appointments and graduation is 2 months away would you risk trying to find another patient with that same procedure needing to be done or just fork over some bones and wash your hands of it.

you need to realize your providing services for mainly low income patients, so you just need to stay on top of it. this issue gets brought up like its the end of the world but its not
 

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superchris147 said:
you would think that, but if you need to realize that most patients at dental schools are poor and this is their only option. so while 10-15% might not seem that much to you, that might be too expensive for most of the patients.

as for the students paying for procedures talk above i have heard that happening at more than just a few schools, however, its not like it happens every other week. i feel like temple gets a bad rap for this, but its not like it happens to just them or their students every day. think of it this way, if you have a procedure that might be relatively hard to find, you spend 3 weeks of hard work/lab work/appointments and graduation is 2 months away would you risk trying to find another patient with that same procedure needing to be done or just fork over some bones and wash your hands of it.

you need to realize your providing services for mainly low income patients, so you just need to stay on top of it. this issue gets brought up like its the end of the world but its not


dude,

1. Poor individuals do not get crowns, they get extractions, period!

2. They are so poor that they are going to sit for 3 hours to save $12.

Whatever, if you say so......
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
well the pickle doesnt lie. I have heard of this happening before.

Heres another story since I am on this ramble,

When I shadowed at the dental clinic in my hometown, I shadowed with 2 others and we watched oral surgery all day.

That morning, this girl was watching and she got sick and passed out and hit her head on the floor and they called an ambulance because she was bleeding bad.

Now the clinic has a new policy - Since its a free clinic, students can still shadow a dentist at his discretion, but if they have never shadowed before they must sit and take frequent breaks.


I am not sure if it grossed her out or if she just got a head rush from standing so long.

We were watching an alveolarectomy which was fairly grose.

The pickle doesn't lie huh? Hah.
 

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Hot pickle baby said:
makes you wonder how the hell they get patients.

I know for a price reduction of 10-15% I wouldnt think of going to a student and sitting there for 3 hours.

I would go to an experienced dentist who will have me in and out and fix my problem correctly the FIRST TIME.
The price reduction at almost all schools is ~40-50% of private practice. This means that, for most procedures, the school is only making back its material costs (due to the extremely high overhead associated with dental students and their waste). I am in a graduate clinic (Perio), a specialty that is associated with low overhead. Our fees are roughly 50-60% of private practice. Now, even with all of us producing each month, we still do not make the clinic money. We only make enough to pay for our assistants and any new equipment costs. So, its not the end of the world to have to ask for your patients to pay for their procedures before you get started.
 

toofache32

15+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2003
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I payed (paid?) for my last 3 crowns to graduate, even though it was against the school's rules. I would gladly pay for 3 crowns ($800) before paying for another year of tuition ($8000). It wasn't even a question for me.
 
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