For those with ADHD

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I know my own H/P's tend to be a bit on the non-linear side, but if I am sure to have my rid, I am on the ball.
As for my own career, I think Ive found the place for me is the OR, which I think some may find unusual for an ADHD er.
However the OR is a place of continual sensory input, I am able to focus when working kinetcially, and I am far more a visual intutive type. What have others found?
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Well, I don't have many posts here, but i have been reading this board for awhile, and I am especially thankful to see a thread like this. I don't know if many of you care, but this story might help some of the non-believers reading this thread understand our problem.

We have a program at my college where you can spread your 1st yr over 2 yrs and take half the course load every semester. I was forced to do this because I was failing 3 of my 4 classes 1st semester. I finished the semester passing one and failing one (retook Biochem over the summer. P.S. I was a biochem major, and very embarassed.) I accredited this to getting used to a new city and living on my own for the first time (also went out with friends to much).

Learned my lesson for second semester and studied pretty hard and picked up a part-time job for my free time (always do better in school when I have a job). I barely passed my 2 classes (it was ridiculously close). I couldn't understand it.

Retook Biochem over summer and passed. Maintained job as well. Started out the next semester taking Histo and Anatomy. I studied more than I have ever studied in my life, I'm talking all out not gonna screw up again studying. Barely passed anatomy, and barely MP'd Histo (meaning I have to retake the final over the summer to receive a passing grade. This is especially ******ed because I passed the final.)

I couldn't take it. I went to the dean and asked for help. I asked for tutors and anything else they would give me. The Dean always thought I just didn't want to be there bad enough and that is why I was screwing up. She realized this wasn't the case and offered me help. The first thing she did was get me tested for a learning disability after finals. The tests are insanely long and intense (for me, because I was scared of what the results would say) to anyone who has not taken them.

I went home over Christmas break and told my dad i had taken the tests and would know when I went back to school. He confessed that my mom had started taking Straterra about 6 months ago. I was shocked (but not really), and hurt. I always knew my mom had a problem, but I was shocked to know it was diagnosed, and that my parents didn't tell me. They knew I was having trouble and they didn't even think the news would affect me.

When I returned at the begginning of this semester i got my results. I didn't have a learning disability, but I did have (do have) ADHD. I was shocked. How could I have gotten this far and not know. The Dean (an M.D.) was completely supportive. I went to the clinic and had another doctor run some tests and I have been using Adderall ever since (10 mg in the morning, 10 mg after lunch, and 5 mg at 5:00 p.m.)

I studied for 14 hrs straight one day and I was so happy I almost cried. I did do decent on my first set of exams, but i had only been taking it for the week before tests. This next week is the true test.

I don't feel different when I take it, I don't notice it until I start to study and people interrupt me to take a break instead of vice versa.

I told my friends and they are completely supportive, mainly because they know I was busting my ass to barely pass, or barely fail, while they would go out and cram the week before and do way better than me.

Anyways thats my story, whether you wanted it or not.

UTCobra
 
I'm wondering if anyone has taken a selective acetylcholinesterase inhibitor (like Aricept) for ADHD in conjunction with a stimulant. There are a few papers on Aricept in children with ADHD in pubmed. I was wondering about the role of acetylcholine so I did a search on pubmed.
 
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not sure but i have read papers indicating an potential use of modafinil (provigil) the same stuff that they use for narcoleptics. its a non-stimulant and works thru the histamine pathway i haven't taken neuro yet put i think this works via the raphe or LC, and has something to do with awareness stimulation. apparently some drug company is pushing for approval for use with adhd.
 
The molecular targets of modafinil have not been defined, but I did see a paper on modafinil influencing histaminergic activity. Modafinil has also been studied for depression, pain, cocaine addiction, etc.

There is a H3 antagonist under development that may work for ADHD as well as schizophrenia and Alzheimer's dementia.
 
Hello SDNers,

I have been having some problems and I thought you might be able to help me out. I have talked to my doctor too and I am going to get some testing done. Basically, I have had problems with learning, concentrating, and focusing for the past couple of months. For instance, I will start to read the paper or a book and my mind will start to jump around and I can't control it. Even simply reading the newspaper is hard to do. So I can't learn anything because my mind just jumps around. It can't focus on what I am learning. Then I have had eye twitching and the twitching comes up when I have to read or take a test or any academic work. I am fine when it comes to basic tasks like organizing clothes. These problems popped up when I was in school but I am not in school now and I thought that these problems were school-related but they don't seem to be. These symptoms I have are very strange and I don't know if any of you have experienced them.

Anyway, I didn't know if you have any advice. I used to think I had burn out but now I don't think so.

Thanks,
Cather
 
cather said:
Anyway, I didn't know if you have any advice. I used to think I had burn out but now I don't think so.

Thanks,
Cather
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I think testing is the right course of action now.

How is this problem interfering with your life now that you are not in school?
 
cather said:
I have been having some problems and I thought you might be able to help me out.
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Definitely get tested. www.adultadd.com is a doctor referral site disguised as a public service, IMHO :) but it will still put you in touch with someone that can help you out.

I think you fall under the same category as myself. It's not lack of intelligence, just extraordinary difficulty focusing on less than stimulating subjects.

To a certain degree, society has programmed you to be this way (bring on the flames). Just consider it a warning that you'll have to go to greater than usual lengths to study as a med student. Possibly including, but not limited to chemical assistance.

NS
 
cather said:
Hello SDNers,

I have been having some problems and I thought you might be able to help me out. I have talked to my doctor too and I am going to get some testing done. Basically, I have had problems with learning, concentrating, and focusing for the past couple of months. For instance, I will start to read the paper or a book and my mind will start to jump around and I can't control it. Even simply reading the newspaper is hard to do. So I can't learn anything because my mind just jumps around. It can't focus on what I am learning. Then I have had eye twitching and the twitching comes up when I have to read or take a test or any academic work. I am fine when it comes to basic tasks like organizing clothes. These problems popped up when I was in school but I am not in school now and I thought that these problems were school-related but they don't seem to be. These symptoms I have are very strange and I don't know if any of you have experienced them.

Anyway, I didn't know if you have any advice. I used to think I had burn out but now I don't think so.

Thanks,
Cather
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I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but I've never heard of ADD coming on so abrubtly. I believe DSM-IV requires onset in childhood. Hopefully your doctor can figure this out.
 
donvicious said:
I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but I've never heard of ADD coming on so abrubtly. I believe DSM-IV requires onset in childhood. Hopefully your doctor can figure this out.
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It does, but it may have been around since childhood and just not yet a problem (i.e. have been able to handle everything, a little distractable but still can compensate in high school, college... then comes med school and the poop hits the fan, and problems manifest).
Alternatively, could be stress, anxiety, depression, all of which can be treated, but if its making life difficult and effecting your ability to learn, get checked.
 
Joel Fleischman said:
It does, but it may have been around since childhood and just not yet a problem (i.e. have been able to handle everything, a little distractable but still can compensate in high school, college... then comes med school and the poop hits the fan, and problems manifest).
Alternatively, could be stress, anxiety, depression, all of which can be treated, but if its making life difficult and effecting your ability to learn, get checked.
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This is a great post.

I'll second that depression may cause difficulty with concentration.

As far as ADHD, it could manifest in different ways depending on the particular context. I agree fully that someone could manage well enough in high school and in college to make it into medical school, and then they could all of a sudden have difficulties with the "memorize this, memorize that, do ten things at once" curriculum they are likely to encounter.

I guess that more persistent indicators of ADHD would include difficulties with relationships and difficulties with following schedules and staying on task. People with ADHD are not always aware of these difficulties because they don't receive objective feedback on them, like they do with schoolwork. This explains why some of us have no clue about our behavior until adulthood (and why some people even twice our age do not suspect their own behavior). For anyone who believes that they may "have ADHD" based on your recent school performance, you may want to take this opportunity to also think about how your behavior has affected the quality of your life outside of school.

Wait, there's life outside of school?

Good Luck. Please share any stories about how you were able to overcome this obstacle. The fewer chemicals, the better :)
 
have any of you tried taking st. john's wort for mild depression/attention problems? i've heard that it helps some people better than certain meds.. i guess this solution would require less (unnatural) chemicals than many others..
 
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misconception? said:
have any of you tried taking st. john's wort for mild depression/attention problems?
It's not bad, but more psychosomatic IMHO. Plus there's always the risk of drug interactions...

I think most mood altering medications should be coupled with behavioral changes to have any lasting effect. For example, my feelings of depression are nonexistant now that I live in Florida :) . Results may vary though.

NS
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Super Rob said:
Please share any stories about how you were able to overcome this obstacle. The fewer chemicals, the better :)
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As most of us here, I was able to compensate for my ADD during high school and college with my intelect. Unfortunately, my intelect decided to take a vacation once med school started. Seriously, the work load, memorization and schedule were too much for me in my first year. I got help for depression, and it helped somewhat. Last year, I was forced to take a leave of absence from school at the end of MS2 because everything just seemed to explode (my great-grandmother's death being the catalyst). Once during first year I tried to get evaluated for ADD at school and was told I was borderline, but not in need of medication. I wish I had pushed harder then for a diagnosis and medication (it would've saved me the whole leave of absence deal). I've been on Methylphenidate SR once in the morning. I hate taking a pill every morning, but I have to admit it has made a world of difference. I'm not getting A's or anything, but I'm happy just passing my courses and learning as much as I can. I'm very lucky in that my school has been very supportive in my situation and I've availed myself of the resources they've offered me. Could I be doing better academically? Yes, but I don't think I'd be as happy with myself as I am now. I spend time with my family whenever the workload allows. I TiVo my favorite shows and watch them when time permits it. And I try tell the voice in my head taunting "you could be studying right now instead of spending time with mom". I just tell it to shut up and smile. My overall mental health is more important than school. And in the end, required for doing good in class.

I hope my experience helps others who are going through a similar experience.
 
About the guilt/resentment/hesitation to take a pill every day, I will share a very simple analogy that my doctor shared with me when I began treatment for ADHD and had the same concerns. Our discussion went like this:

Him: You are nearsighted and you need visual correction. Right?

Me: Right.

Him: So, every morning you find your glasses or insert your contact lenses?

Me: Yes, I'm functionally blind otherwise.

Him: Well, through the testing we have completed, we now know that you have been struggling all your life with another medical condition, very likely one which is genetic, like your nearsightedness. Your optometrist does tests and then prescribes glasses for you. If there were a medical aid, like glasses, you could use each day to minimize the effects of that condition and help you to function more "normally", more like the other students in your classes, would you not give it a try?

Me: Well, yes, I suppose it would be stupid not to try.

Him: No, not stupid, but a disservice to yourself. The medication that I want you to try might be the right one for you, or we may have to make adjustments, like when you have your eyeglass prescription adjusted. Eventually, we will find the right medication and the right dosage for you. You will be able to "see" everything in your life so much more clearly. Think of taking this pill each day as necessary for your health and well-being, just as you put on your glasses. Both devices level the playing field for you so you can function in life.


My doctor is a saint and he was so very right. Taking medication for my ADHD has changed my life. It has resolved my depression and the frustration, tension and irritability that went along with it. I am able to think clearly now and complete tasks that previously seemed overwhelming. I have conquered barriers which paralized me.

I do not mean to boast, but I am proud of what I accomplished and I want all of you to know what became possible for me once I committed to treatment for my condition. At age 39, I returned to school to take all of the pre-reqs for med school. I earned a 4.0 in 41 hours of science courses in just 18 months. I took the MCAT without accomodations (not really my best decision, but another story) and scored well enough to gain admission to medical school for the fall of 2005. My dream of becoming a physician is coming true. I can honestly say that I would not have accomplished any of this without therapy and medication. Stimulant medications are overprescribed to some people who do not need them, but for those who do, the benefits are quickly and readily apparent and they can be life changing.

My best to all of you who are struggling with ADHD and related conditions. The best advice I can share is to find a physician you can trust, with whom you can communicate honestly. Then, get tested and work as a team with your doctor to find the right treatment. You deserve this; you need this!
 
Manifesting said:
About the guilt/resentment/hesitation to take a pill every day, I will share a very simple analogy that my doctor shared with me...
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Awesome story. :thumbup: Thanks for sharing.

The only thing I'd add is that I don't feel like "me" when I'm on Addy. I know that others have said that and maybe a switch of meds would fix that.

Maybe I'm just really attached to this spastic, silly part of me and I don't want it to go away (I don't want to grow up, I'm a Toys 'R' Us kid). But then again, is it better to decide that you need to grow up and be more stable? :confused:

It's a tough call...

NS
 
Manifesting said:
About the guilt/resentment/hesitation to take a pill every day, I will share a very simple analogy that my doctor shared with me when I began treatment for ADHD and had the same concerns. Our discussion went like this:

Him: You are nearsighted and you need visual correction. Right?

Me: Right.

Him: So, every morning you find your glasses or insert your contact lenses?

Me: Yes, I'm functionally blind otherwise.

Him: Well, through the testing we have completed, we now know that you have been struggling all your life with another medical condition, very likely one which is genetic, like your nearsightedness. Your optometrist does tests and then prescribes glasses for you. If there were a medical aid, like glasses, you could use each day to minimize the effects of that condition and help you to function more "normally", more like the other students in your classes, would you not give it a try?

Me: Well, yes, I suppose it would be stupid not to try.

Him: No, not stupid, but a disservice to yourself. The medication that I want you to try might be the right one for you, or we may have to make adjustments, like when you have your eyeglass prescription adjusted. Eventually, we will find the right medication and the right dosage for you. You will be able to "see" everything in your life so much more clearly. Think of taking this pill each day as necessary for your health and well-being, just as you put on your glasses. Both devices level the playing field for you so you can function in life.


My doctor is a saint and he was so very right. Taking medication for my ADHD has changed my life. It has resolved my depression and the frustration, tension and irritability that went along with it. I am able to think clearly now and complete tasks that previously seemed overwhelming. I have conquered barriers which paralized me.

I do not mean to boast, but I am proud of what I accomplished and I want all of you to know what became possible for me once I committed to treatment for my condition. At age 39, I returned to school to take all of the pre-reqs for med school. I earned a 4.0 in 41 hours of science courses in just 18 months. I took the MCAT without accomodations (not really my best decision, but another story) and scored well enough to gain admission to medical school for the fall of 2005. My dream of becoming a physician is coming true. I can honestly say that I would not have accomplished any of this without therapy and medication. Stimulant medications are overprescribed to some people who do not need them, but for those who do, the benefits are quickly and readily apparent and they can be life changing.

My best to all of you who are struggling with ADHD and related conditions. The best advice I can share is to find a physician you can trust, with whom you can communicate honestly. Then, get tested and work as a team with your doctor to find the right treatment. You deserve this; you need this!
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I disagree with the glasses analogy and the fact that taking medication for ADD means there is something "wrong" with you. Nothing is "wrong" with me, its just that my brain is not optimally designed for med school. Med school is whats "wrong". Even though now I can successfully jump through the testing "hoops" by taking stimulants, it still doesnt make the process acceptable. Even though the tests are no longer a problem to me, they are still a problem in the system. The system is still messed up, we should not have to resort to these extreme measures simply beacuse we do not fit the mold of typical med school brains.

I think change is a LONG TIME COMING in our ultra conservative medical education system. But what am I going to do about it? Nothing, tell no one about my taking meds for fear of judment, keep passing my scantron tests and shutting up.
 
Joel Fleischman said:
Perhaps we could start a thread for those of us who are less than supper human, who have ADHD – whether self diagnosed or by a team of Mayo Neurologists – and discuss how people deal with their minimal attention and concentration issues with the volume of material in medical school…
I do have ADHD, do fine, no accommodations, take the Ritalin and coffee. Friends do comment that I am one of the most distractible people when studying through.
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ADHD? The proper nutrition will help. http://www.glycoinformation.info

http://www.mannapages.com/foryourlife
 
Um, OK.
there's a lesson to be learned here...
Any way, there have been some LEGITAMATE (sp?) work done looking at fatty acid deficiency in ADHD (+) children. ... good old epidemological chicken or the egg problem, cause, effect, or just a sign, but some food for thought... maybe consider having some salmon before studying. Or maybe a nice bagel c. lox.
And these articles have no random biographies of Nobel Prize winners.
 
With regard to the other thread on how many hrs do you study, any tips on Meditation?
 
Joel Fleischman said:
With regard to the other thread on how many hrs do you study, any tips on Meditation?
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When I take a break, I usually listen to 1 or 2 songs from my iPod, then get back to reading the books. Meditating would put me to sleep right away.
 
Joel Fleischman said:
With regard to the other thread on how many hrs do you study, any tips on Meditation?
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Do you meditate often? ever? What was it like? I think everyones definition of "meditate" may be something different.

I find it IMPOSSIBLE to meditate after studying especially after being on stimulants, my mind cant sit still for 2 seconds.

But I DO meditate before hand, which I have been doing for a long time, and I do it not only to study but just whenever I feel like it. I highly recommend it, just google "Medidation" and it will explain everything. If you want any specific tips as "how to" let me know and i can help you out.
 
used to meditate before Track meets in college, but the techniques I learned take like 30 minutes at a minum.
Usually my first hour of studying is a complete waste... Im thinking some good old meditation would help.
so, yes, I be currious on any how to suggetions you have.
 
you don't need to meditate that long if you don't want to.. just clearing your mind of any stress for a few minutes each study break would boost your efficiency.. there are many different techniques available for you to choose from.. i have been developing my style of meditation for many years and i have been reading about meditation for longer.. what i do to relax myself is a very personal process that is custom tailored for me.. it would benefit you to come up with your own relaxation routine.. abdominal breathing is at the core of many relaxation techniques..
 
Joel Fleischman said:
...at fatty acid deficiency in ADHD (+) children. ... good old epidemological chicken or the egg problem, cause, effect, or just a sign, but some food for thought... maybe consider having some salmon before studying. Or maybe a nice bagel c. lox.
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Funny you should mention that. I was eating lots of salmon in my MCAT days because of some articles I read at the time. Kinda forgot about it until now.

There was no "night and day" difference, but I really am a big believer in the "you are what you eat" thing. I didn't do phenomenal on the MCAT, but I had never taken addy or anything else at the time, and well...here I am a med student.

I at least partially agree with Hoya. How has med school changed since the previous generation of doctors? Not much I bet.

NS
 
I just started taking Addy, and my doctor told me it was good to take some drug holidays routinely if I wanted. However, I find that when I don't take the meds I have a really hard time with my sleep wake cycle. Anyone else have that problem? It could be me just getting used to it, but it is a bit alarming.
 
Hi all, so I am not so sure what is wrong with me. And I am not asking for a diagnosis, but just wondering what your guys' thoughts are, esp if you think its ADD related. I've never been dx nor have had any problems through element, hs, college. I am 2nd year now--and I've done fairly well in med school (~3.7gpa or so)--it's alwyas taken me longer to KNOW stuff relatively I felt, but then I aslo felt like I knew stuff better than others. I am just a slow reader/worker I think. Lately I've been studying for step 1 and i've had some "problems". First of all, I don't think I'm that efficient--I'm taking more time for things than planned and taking me longer than expected. The real problem came up this weekend when I took the basic sci shelf exam from our school as a practice test. It was so wierd, like I would read the ? (they were extremely long, mind u), and then re-read it cuz i wouldnt pick up the important facts--basically i was running behind time. And worse, after like every5-7 mins everything would BLUR out, like i couldn't make out the words. And, I would have to rub my eyes or look elsewhere for 2 secs, and then come back to the test. it was wierd. And, it's happened before to me but only like a DAY before or usually on exam days. Never before. I don't know if this is anxiety/stress related, or i may have a problem. I don't know. I am relatively young (21), so I don't know. And throughout the test, I don't wanna say I wasn;t foccused, but I had to read some thigsn twice because I wasn't kinda paying attention to the age, and details, etc. I don't know what I should do. IT scared the hell out of me because I absolutely cannot take step 1 like this. When I study, this never really ahppens, except like i said a day or so preceding the exam (it happened this time and once/twice before in pharm). Any comments/thoughts? Should I get tested for ADD? My only symptoms of ADD i guess or complaint with myself is that i'm taking too long (but this is aprtially also because i am not one of those who surface/skim read, i like to knoe everything when i read, and oftenw ill read the same para couple times before i move on to make sure i have it down), and this running out of time on the test problem, and then maybe a little on the not foccused side (using the comp, or taking a break every 2 hrs or so; which seems normal, but the amt of work i've gotten done in 2 hrs is not suffice for my sched/normal standard. Sorry for the rambling post, but any comments would help. Thanks.
 
Based on your numbers, you seem to be pretty functional, either because you meet normal standards or because you compensate well enough, if there is an underlying "condition".

I understand the feeling of taking longer to really KNOW the material and I am probably not the only one.

When I was tested, I did not go into it to rule in/out adhd... but rather the testing was set up for dx of a variety of stuff (ie OCD). Is the finanacial/time cost of testing and potential positive result of adhd or something else worth it if you are adequately functional? (mine was discounted at student health services and still cost over $300). It may be a case of "if it aint broken, don't fix it". But if the possibility of having adhd or something else keeps eating at you, it may be worth it to get tested. Judt like any dx test, be prepared for a positive result scenario.

Good luck!




HiddenTruth said:
Hi all, so I am not so sure what is wrong with me. And I am not asking for a diagnosis, but just wondering what your guys' thoughts are, esp if you think its ADD related. I've never been dx nor have had any problems through element, hs, college. I am 2nd year now--and I've done fairly well in med school (~3.7gpa or so)--it's alwyas taken me longer to KNOW stuff relatively I felt, but then I aslo felt like I knew stuff better than others. I am just a slow reader/worker I think. Lately I've been studying for step 1 and i've had some "problems". First of all, I don't think I'm that efficient--I'm taking more time for things than planned and taking me longer than expected. The real problem came up this weekend when I took the basic sci shelf exam from our school as a practice test. It was so wierd, like I would read the ? (they were extremely long, mind u), and then re-read it cuz i wouldnt pick up the important facts--basically i was running behind time. And worse, after like every5-7 mins everything would BLUR out, like i couldn't make out the words. And, I would have to rub my eyes or look elsewhere for 2 secs, and then come back to the test. it was wierd. And, it's happened before to me but only like a DAY before or usually on exam days. Never before. I don't know if this is anxiety/stress related, or i may have a problem. I don't know. I am relatively young (21), so I don't know. And throughout the test, I don't wanna say I wasn;t foccused, but I had to read some thigsn twice because I wasn't kinda paying attention to the age, and details, etc. I don't know what I should do. IT scared the hell out of me because I absolutely cannot take step 1 like this. When I study, this never really ahppens, except like i said a day or so preceding the exam (it happened this time and once/twice before in pharm). Any comments/thoughts? Should I get tested for ADD? My only symptoms of ADD i guess or complaint with myself is that i'm taking too long (but this is aprtially also because i am not one of those who surface/skim read, i like to knoe everything when i read, and oftenw ill read the same para couple times before i move on to make sure i have it down), and this running out of time on the test problem, and then maybe a little on the not foccused side (using the comp, or taking a break every 2 hrs or so; which seems normal, but the amt of work i've gotten done in 2 hrs is not suffice for my sched/normal standard. Sorry for the rambling post, but any comments would help. Thanks.
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how much of a time commitment is it? And, what types of tests or protocols do you take?
 
HiddenTruth said:
how much of a time commitment is it? And, what types of tests or protocols do you take?
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didn't mean to make it sound alarming. I was evaluated during a time in my life when trying to get to the student health center was a big deal, because I was working more than FT and doing FT coursework. Sparing a few hours back then to make Dr's appts was almost impossible.

Where I was evaluated, it took place over the course of several visits (to determine if testing was appropriate, actual testing, interpretation of results & discussion of meds & other mgt methods/issues).

I can't remember exactly how long the testing took, but I want to say several hours?? From what little I can recall, it's a bunch of annoying "inventories" that, I suspect, have ALOT of built in controls. There were a few other things in addition to "inventories", (like IQ) but it may not help (you) if I elaborate.

As for details of testing, it might be best NOT to know alot about them before hand, so that you can't "throw" off the results. You just have to be evaluated by people who you *trust* professionally. In my case that consisted of an MD and one or two PhD's that have ALOT of experience w/ dx people w/ adhd, ocd, LD and psych "conditions".

I might be repeating myself a bit (from other postings) but I went in fully believing that I was OCD; ADHD was the FURTHEST thing from my mind. Initially, for the first few years, I had a "yeah, whatever" attitude about the whole thing. I pretty much didn't think it was a genuine disorder. Over the years, however, I've come to accept it as reality for myself & others.

Hope this helps
 
To Hidden Truth: I read the post about your symptoms. Not to diagnose, but it sounds as though you are experiencing a type of test anxiety and that you could benefit from medical/psychological/educational intervention. I agree with other posters that you should make the commitment to have a thorough evaluation, as the underlying cause of your anxiety could be any number of conditions. Correct identification of your difficulty and proper treatment could make a world of difference for you. I would not worry about the time you will invest in the process, as it is necessary for your well-being. Once you are on the path to managing your symptoms, you will wonder why you waited so long; you will want to spend MORE time learning behavioral strategies, discussing your trials and marveling at your successes.

You may be wondering how or where to get started? If you do not have access to a student health service or outpatient clinic at your school's hospital, I suggest that you contact one of these sources for referrals to reputable professionals with experience in treating adults with these types of conditions: 1) Dept of pediatric neurology or child psychiatry at nearest children's hospital; they usually have an assessment clinic or could refer you to practioners who test adults; 2) Your city or county department of mental health; 3) the social worker assigned to your nearest high school; 4) your city/county department of special education. At your age, you may still qualify for (free) assessment and transition services available to full-time students.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing.
 
( Quote from Hoya11) I disagree with the glasses analogy and the fact that taking medication for ADD means there is something "wrong" with you. Nothing is "wrong" with me, its just that my brain is not optimally designed for med school. Med school is whats "wrong". Even though now I can successfully jump through the testing "hoops" by taking stimulants, it still doesn't make the process acceptable. Even though the tests are no longer a problem to me, they are still a problem in the system. The system is still messed up, we should not have to resort to these extreme measures simply beacuse we do not fit the mold of typical med school brains.

I think change is a LONG TIME COMING in our ultra conservative medical education system. But what am I going to do about it? Nothing, tell no one about my taking meds for fear of judment, keep passing my scantron tests and shutting up. (end quote)


Hoya11: In many ways, I agree with you. I subscribe to the idea that there are "all kinds of minds" (Dr. Mel Levine). However, in this same vein, I also think that because each individual's mind is unique, there is not one single best way to remedy educational difficulties for all people. There are many problems with the educational system in our country and those problems are not limited to medical school. By failing to teach to "all kinds of minds", schools are failing to provide an appropriate education for those who do not learn in the conventional, conservative didactic manner. Some people can better conform to this type of education by taking stimulant medication and find that the medication is not really necessary to improve their functioning in other areas of their lives.

However, when the mind works in a way which causes discord in one's life (not just in school), that is not normal and treatment is needed. I believe that I do have a "condition". You may not believe that you have a condition. I am not certain whether either of us are correct. What is "normal"? What constitutes a "condition"? We could discuss medical semantics for hours. I do know that we are not the same and we cannot be lumped into the same category, even if a physician were to give us the same diagnosis. In my opinion, this is one reason why so many discussions about ADHD get confrontational; people forget about the uniqueness of individual brains and the unique ways that brain differences alter function in the infinitely unique human bodies they inhabit.

It is so important to remember that "conditions" like ADHD, OCD, Autism and the like exist on a spectrum and are exhibited differently and with greater or lesser severity in unique individuals. You may have learning differences which are mildly different from your medical school classmates. I have learning differences which are moderately different from my classmates. My son has been diagnosed with autism and ADHD. Educationally speaking, he is both "gifted" and "learning disabled". These are serious learning differences and try as we all might, his schools have not come close to providing an appropriate education for his very unique needs. I believe that both he and I do have neurodevelopmental (genetic) conditions which impact not only our educational situation, but also the quality of our lives. We would function better if the educational system were more flexible, but we also have difficulty with many aspects of daily life. My son and I both take more than one type of medication to help us be positive, productive and successful. If we need to bear the "label" of a "condition" in order to make this possible, then so be it. We are doing what is right for us.

You say you take stimulant medication to help you as a student and it sounds as though you feel resentment against the educational system for not enabling you to succeed without this accomodation. You say that you are "normal", that you do not have a "condition" and that it is the medical school system which must change. I agree that it is perfectly wonderful for you to have your amazing, unique and gifted mind; all of us are right to be as we are, if we can function healthfully. I agree that our educational system must evolve and change to better accomodate the needs of those who learn in non-traditional ways. The law of our country states that each person of elementary and secondary school age is entitled to a (paraphrase) "free and appropriate education in accordance with his/her needs". This is a lofty goal. How does a public school with 20 or more students in a class accomplish this? In my opinion, in reality, public schools will never be able to meet this goal, as NO TWO PEOPLE HAVE THE SAME KIND OF MIND. Everyone learns differently. You cannot practically have public schools teaching to students on a 1:1 basis, with one teacher meeting the unique needs of every student. However, there are certain categories or similarities of learning styles and the schools could do a better job of teaching to all of these different styles. I believe that this change is taking place and will continue over the next 20 or so years. Although they are not required to meet the same standards of "appropriate" education, colleges and universities are also making changes in curricula to accomodate minds which learn best in non-traditional ways.

I apologize for this long post. I felt as though I needed to express my understanding of this topic in more detail in response to your comments on the analogy I posted. You still may disagree with my view and that is fine. I wish you the best in your medical studies and in life.
 
So what's the difference b/t Ritalin and Adderall? Is there a difference in terms of effects or safety or side effects?
 
Manifesting said:
This is a lofty goal. How does a public school with 20 or more students in a class accomplish this? In my opinion, in reality, public schools will never be able to meet this goal...
Click to expand...

I believe the trick may just be in evaluating learning styles in some sort of quantitative way, then providing material to each student in a way that best fits their style. It starts off with widespread acceptance of the need for change, then getting the right people involved.

Our education system is behind the times - once the private sector is convinced that it can make money off bringing education up to speed, it'll do so. It's not as impossible as many people think.

Microsoft is taking some big moves in this area: http://www.microsoft.com/Education/SchoolofFuture.aspx

The 20th century gave us all kinds of amazing things...I'm hopeful that in the 21st we'll actually improve quality of life in many aspects, rather than just contributing to the destruction of the planet and ourselves.

NS
 
Someone mentioned Straterra.

Here's the best review article.

Caballero J, Nahata M. Atomoxetine Hydrochloride for the treatment of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Clinical Therapeutics. 2003; 25:3065-3083.
 
Sorry if I’m being obvious, but I write this in case there is someone out there who is like me who failed to realize the obvious.

1. be patient (with yourself)
2. understand (what you’re reading).

I am impatient, and have a low tolerance for frustration. I think those factors compromised my academic performance. I was always focused on finishing the book/chapter/article, not learning what the reading had to say. Memorization is good because sometimes you can memorize in less time than it takes to understand something (especially something complex like medicine), but you get what you put in. If you devote time to understanding, your retention is a lot better. Don’t get me wrong, there will be times that you put a lot of work into understanding something complex only to forget it later on, but that is where repetition comes in. I know repetition can be boring (it is for me; whenever I come across a subject that I’ve previously encountered, I tend to skim the paragraphs instead of locking down and reading it with my full concentration). That is where patient encounters/test questions challenge your knowledge of a “known” subject. For me, I need to have a goal in mind when I’m reading. If my goal is to finish a particular text for a clerkship, that’s the only goal I’m thinking of, so I speed-read. I’m sure I sound like an idiot, and perhaps I am the only one who is guilty of doing this, but like I said before, I write in case there is someone out there who shares a similar impatience. This may be a characteristic unique to myself and not at all related to ADHD. However, I do think that society craves the quick fix, and there may be some who apply this demand to their studies. Slow down. Also, don’t get frustrated. Believe it or not, it does get easier. With time, obscure medical terminology becomes part of your vocabulary, and you can read without having to look up words in every other sentence.

In regards to disclosing my ADHD to others, I chose not to, because “First Aid for the Wards” writes that learning disabilities are frowned upon. Although ADHD is not a learning disability per se, as some have pointed out earlier, there will be those who use ADHD against us. I figure, by not letting them know, they can’t use it against me.
 
1) I have ADHD and I don't need teh pills.

Attention Deficit Disorder is bullcrap and anyone that "has it" should be shot. You have a kid that misbehaves? Smack the little **** up side the head and tell him to shut up. I'm tired of all these parents that are afraid to discipline their kids.

There's a fine line between child abuse and discipline. Take my dad for example; when I screwed up, my dad would electrocute me. And look at me today: flawless. Electrocution builds character.

All seriousness aside, the real reason ADD exists is because executives at pharmaceutical companies need to make their Lexus payments. Companies that produce Ritalin, Dexedrin and Cylert make billions of dollars every year selling their **** to lazy/irresponsible parents that want an excuse for letting their kids become the stupid, obnoxious, spoiled brats that they're growing up to be. When I was a kid, all my parents gave me was a brick to play with. If I complained about the brick, my dad would drop kick me in the throat and I'd realize how ungrateful I was being.

I bet all those wimps diagnosed with ADD when they were kids are the same dip****s that still pay with checks in grocery stores. NOBODY PAYS WITH CHECKS ANYMORE. Get out of the stone ages. Seriously. People that pay with checks drive me up the wall. Might as well pay with foreign currency. Some old lady was paying with a check while I was in line at the grocery store the other day, so I dislocated her hip. Old lady had nothing on me, I kick ass!
 
Hermit MMood said:
1) I have ADHD and I don't need teh pills.

Attention Deficit Disorder is bullcrap and anyone that "has it" should be shot. You have a kid that misbehaves? Smack the little **** up side the head and tell him to shut up. I'm tired of all these parents that are afraid to discipline their kids.

There's a fine line between child abuse and discipline. Take my dad for example; when I screwed up, my dad would electrocute me. And look at me today: flawless. Electrocution builds character.

All seriousness aside, the real reason ADD exists is because executives at pharmaceutical companies need to make their Lexus payments. Companies that produce Ritalin, Dexedrin and Cylert make billions of dollars every year selling their **** to lazy/irresponsible parents that want an excuse for letting their kids become the stupid, obnoxious, spoiled brats that they're growing up to be. When I was a kid, all my parents gave me was a brick to play with. If I complained about the brick, my dad would drop kick me in the throat and I'd realize how ungrateful I was being.

I bet all those wimps diagnosed with ADD when they were kids are the same dip****s that still pay with checks in grocery stores. NOBODY PAYS WITH CHECKS ANYMORE. Get out of the stone ages. Seriously. People that pay with checks drive me up the wall. Might as well pay with foreign currency. Some old lady was paying with a check while I was in line at the grocery store the other day, so I dislocated her hip. Old lady had nothing on me, I kick ass!
Click to expand...

after that rant i find it hard to believe that you're not snorting adderall.
 
As it its getting near the USMLE time of year...
Was wondering if any of those with less than perfect attention spans had to share any special study techniques?
 
I guess Ill add study technuqes in general... not just the MLE
 
I have the "space cadet", zoned-out kind of ADHD where people in the past have thought I was epileptic because I would have lapses where I would just sit there staring. Sometimes in the middle of a conversation. I almost always had a "glazed", drugged look in photographs. I was totally preoccuppied in my own mental world, and always going off onto little tangents... I could never focus on anything in front of me. I frequently had no idea what was going on around me, and would end up with people calling my name or talking to me then I'd look up and go, "Huh?".

I am now on Paxil (20 mg) which was initially prescribed for anxiety and depression. However, it helps me a great deal with the other symptoms. I'm much more "present". I'm more "in the real world", I don't wander off in my head as much. It doesn't change that I have ADHD, or affect my attention span the way some other drugs would, but what it does is it sort of stops that little voice in my head that goes "You suck" when I make a mistake. I end up making fewer mistakes, the circle is broken. It's easier for me to keep track of things when I don't have the anxiety and depression *exacerbating* my attention problems.

The rest has been diet and lifestyle remediation.

I am on a VERY strict diet which I discovered mostly by trial and error, sort of by elimination. Probably going to get flamed here because of all the doctors who look down on Atkins and low-carb plans, but this works for me, and nothing else does. Don't ask me why it works for my ADHD, but it *does*.

I eat low-carb, and I do not eat refined flour or sugar products. Apparently I'm allergic to something which gets excluded by default when I eat low-carb.

The whole difference between me being a "space cadet" and being functional, is what I had for breakfast or lunch. If I eat ANY sugar or refined starch foods - I turn into a space cadet again. I literally cannot do math homework if I've had a pastry an hour before. No, I have no idea why this is. It just is.

Lifestyle remediation? I found that open-ended classes (which seem to be the wave of the future at some schools...) and jobs, don't work for me. If I can start it at "any time", I probably won't start it. Someone has to be expecting me. I don't take "open-entry/open-exit" lab type classes if I can help it, anymore. I do jobs where someone is expecting me to show up. I don't do freelance work as a graphic artist for this reason.

When I take my Paxil and follow my diet, I'm actually aware of what *time* it is. I'm totally competent and alert, as long as I stick to this. Otherwise I'm too spacey to even drive. Paxil and diet is the difference between me being in "the world" vs me being in "my world". And so far, it's been 100% effective.

I have worse than ADHD on my record - I was initially diagnosed (on paper) with a form of autism, which we've determined that I don't have. I'm going to get a few second-opinions on this matter so that when I ultimately apply to med schools, I can say, "no, I am NOT autistic!".
 
Joel Fleischman said:
Perhaps we could start a thread for those of us who are less than supper human, who have ADHD – whether self diagnosed or by a team of Mayo Neurologists – and discuss how people deal with their minimal attention and concentration issues with the volume of material in medical school…
I do have ADHD, do fine, no accommodations, take the Ritalin and coffee. Friends do comment that I am one of the most distractible people when studying through.
Click to expand...
It is very nice thread.I have a daughter who is 15.I know she is smart but she lacks attention.Who should we contact to find out if she is positive ADHD.Please respond.Thanks gentlemen and gentlewomen
 
Will her school test her for free?
You could contact a developmental pediatrician or a psychiatrist or a learning specialist.
 
This is a really helpful thread. I am going to get an MRI and an EEG done next week. A neurologist I saw thought that I may have small seizures in my brain which is why I have had eye twitching and problems concentrating. It is possible I may have ADD too. I am not sure why these symptoms suddenly popped up in the fall but I still have them.
 
if there is a significant difference in one's gpa before and after diagnosis of ADHD, should it be mentioned when explaining crappy grades to adcoms/interviewers? the crappy grades weren't a result of ADD alone, but it was a big factor. i would post this in pre-med forums, but since it's originally an allo topic...

thanks in advance, input would be appreciated :)
 
jintonic5 said:
if there is a significant difference in one's gpa before and after diagnosis of ADHD, should it be mentioned when explaining crappy grades to adcoms/interviewers? the crappy grades weren't a result of ADD alone, but it was a big factor. i would post this in pre-med forums, but since it's originally an allo topic...

thanks in advance, input would be appreciated :)
Click to expand...

I think you would need to explain a drop in gpa rather than an increase. Did (Will) you address the issue in your essay at all?
 
DITTO! I've never been diagnosed or treated for ADD/ADHD, but pretty darn sure my brother and mother have it. I've never had trouble in school (but have yet to be really challenged--getting ready to start 1st year!).

Argante said:
2nd year I would rewrite the notes in a format that made sense to me, usually with lots of pictures. Just words tend to mean very little, I need pictures. Even when I'm remembering text, I remember what it looks like, where it is on the page, etc.

For 3rd year exams I did different color underlining (instead of highlighting) then did lots of practice questions.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
HEY MEDSTUDENTS....
Does anyone out there who is being treated for ADD/ADHD have the American Medical Student Association health insurance plan? I see that they only cover 80% of the first 5 visits and then 50% of visits thereafter. This seems like pretty poor coverage.
Does anyone know what the average cost of a visit to a psychiatrist is? Basically, I'm getting worried that I won't be able to afford my treatment in med school. What about the SOMA plan? Are there any other insurance options? My schools insurance plans seem to be really expensive and furthermore, I’d rather not be going to a clinic where I know everyone and may be practicing/interning, etc. What should I do? Is there anyone else who is having this problem? I would really appreciate peoples experienced with their insurance and coverage for treatment of ADD while in medical school.
Any and all advice is appreciated!! Thanks!
 
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