For those with dogs...

[SaintSamson]

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Hey,

So applying to vet school is about 2-3 years in the future for me (I'm hoping for 2, lol).
I have a 13 yr old cat, and a 1 yr old dog (Australian Shepherd). At the moment, I am enjoying my busy schedule. I work 25 hours a week, I am taking 4 courses, I have a horseback riding lesson once a week, and I have my agility class once a week with my dog.
Currently, I live with 2 roommates that have 2 dogs and a cat. I plan on taking my animals with me to vet school (and I won't be working, and prob won't do horseback lessons or agility lessons).
I know several people have taken their dogs with them to vet school or are planning to.
I am toying with the idea of a second dog in the future (before vet school, though), but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not.
I'm worried my dog will be lonely by himself and with me at school/doing homework a lot, and he's never lived as the only dog in the house. I do plan on having a daily schedule to make sure we both stay active, but because he is so smart and naturally active, I'm worried it may not be enough.
What do you guys think?
Should I get another dog in a year or two before vet school (so that it's fully out of puppy/adolescent stages) so that my dog has a companion?
Or should I wait until after vet school/internships/residencies/when-I-have-steady employment?
Has anyone else had first hand or second hand experience with this sort of decision?

(My cat has lived as the only cat in the household, so I'm not worried about him, especially since his main hobbies are eating and sleeping, haha)

 

[thereservoirdog]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=671249

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=664262

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=600580

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=503370

That should help you out, this topic comes up often.

And just to add my own opinion - if you can handle an australian shepherd with 25 hours of work a week + school + riding lessons, you should be able to handle a couple dogs in vet school. But like you said, make sure it's an adult already. It would be a pain in the butt to get a puppy your first year in vet school.

 

[bunnity]

You could get started with vet school and get used to it and then adopt an adult dog around the age of your current dog.

 

[SaintSamson]

Thanks for the replies and the links to the threads. I have read most of the threads and have a pretty good grasp on the main ideas.
I understand it can add a touch of inconvenience to life during vet school, especially with summer opportunities.
I guess I'm mostly interested as to whether one dog is enough to handle in vet school, or if 2 would be just about as feasible.

I have adopted many dogs in my life, and while I really support and recommend it, I am mostly looking at getting an Australian Shepherd puppy. I'm trying to get a take on whether 2 would be a good idea, especially so my dog has a companion, or if I should just stick to one, as I have a lot of researching to do if I decide to get a second. (I plan to not just research responsible breeders, but bloodlines, genetics, temperament, etc., though not in that order) And I would plan to get it at least 1+ year prior to when I hope to matriculate.

So I guess I'm mostly just asking if you guys think it'd be a good idea to get a companion for my dog prior to vet school, since he's never been an 'only dog' in the household before?

 

[dgm]

Since you live with roommates now, why would going to vet school mean for certain that your dog would be the only dog in the house? Many vet students still have roommates, and many of your classmates will have dogs... And the more animals you accrue, the harder it will be to find people who want to live with you!

 

[EqSci]

Since you live with roommates now, why would going to vet school mean for certain that your dog would be the only dog in the house? Many vet students still have roommates, and many of your classmates will have dogs... And the more animals you accrue, the harder it will be to find people who want to live with you!

👍

Any dog-friendly housing you find is bound to have other dogs already there. Most people will not pay the higher prices if they don't have pets! Unless you plan on living by yourself (more expensive), I would wait and see.

I have one dog and the house I'm in has 3 dogs. We're filled to the max. And my roommates are unrelated to vet med.

 

[MaChien]

I have a newfoundland dog, (120 lbs currently) how hard is it to find an apartment that allows this large of a dog? She also has been around dogs her entire life, but I think getting another dog when I move away to vet school would be stupid, I doubt anyone would let me have a giant dog let alone 2(i was planning on getting a tiny dog though like a corgi). But do you think It would be possible to find a place that would let me have her and a cat?

 

[cowgirla]

I have a newfoundland dog, (120 lbs currently) how hard is it to find an apartment that allows this large of a dog? She also has been around dogs her entire life, but I think getting another dog when I move away to vet school would be stupid, I doubt anyone would let me have a giant dog let alone 2(i was planning on getting a tiny dog though like a corgi). But do you think It would be possible to find a place that would let me have her and a cat?

Corgis are considered tiny?? Maybe compared to a Newfie, but a lot of corgis I've seen tend to be 30-40 pounds. I guess if that's the case, my girl would be considered a teeny teacup or something like that!

 

[SaintSamson]

Lol, I grew up with Shih Tzus, so my Aussie (53lbs) seems big to me! A newfie would fall into the category of 'shetland pony size'!

Thanks for the input. I will have to do some researching and finance tallying. I guess I assumed I would live by myself, as the few people I know who are already in vet school live by themselves. And I've had several not-so-awesome roommate/housemate experiences.

I think if I intent to rent with housemates/roommates, I will stick to my one dog, and if I decide to live by myself/can afford to live by myself, I will heavily consider getting a second dog. In figure out a social situation for my dog, lol

 

[dgm]

Lol, I grew up with Shih Tzus, so my Aussie (53lbs) seems big to me! A newfie would fall into the category of 'shetland pony size'!

Thanks for the input. I will have to do some researching and finance tallying. I guess I assumed I would live by myself, as the few people I know who are already in vet school live by themselves. And I've had several not-so-awesome roommate/housemate experiences.

I think if I intent to rent with housemates/roommates, I will stick to my one dog, and if I decide to live by myself/can afford to live by myself, I will heavily consider getting a second dog. In figure out a social situation for my dog, lol

I hear ya... I swore up and down I was not going to have a roommate in vet school, and wound up with one by accident anyways! I think I would have panic attacks over my student loans if I rented a place by myself.

 

[MaChien]

Corgis are considered tiny?? Maybe compared to a Newfie, but a lot of corgis I've seen tend to be 30-40 pounds. I guess if that's the case, my girl would be considered a teeny teacup or something like that!

hee! I've always thought they were! And teacup dogs were more like a rodent, not really a dog at all.

 

[Caninerepro]

I have three Aussies with me here at MN. Now, I will point out though that I am routinely gone 7:00 - 5:30 M-F, so a puppy would probably not work. My youngest is 4, and even she has a lot of pent up energy when I get home.

 

[nonvideas]

If you're really still 2-3 years from even applying, I don't think it's a good idea to make a decision based on vet school at all. You have to live your life now, and cross the vet school bridge when you come to it.

Half of my class, I'd say, has dogs in vet school. I do (just one, but whatever). It's not as hard as you'd think, especially if you're someone who can study at home. What it might mean is that you have to make some concessions when you find housing - be willing and ready to pay more for a place with a yard, or be willing to live with a roommate who likes your dogs, or be willing to live in a crappier place if it means you're closer to school. Stuff like that. But being 2-3 years from applying to vet school should not keep you from getting a 2nd dog.

 

[sumstorm]

I am a big believer in multiple dogs or at least pets as long as they are sociable ones. However, I don't know if I would get one now with others in the household. Also, you will have plenty of opportunities to obtain an additional pet. My general pet philosophy is to be open to obtaining one, but waiting for the right one...and eventually I end up with the addition that fits my family. I would be a bit more cautious with breeds, since I ran into a LOT of breed restriction/issues when looking for housing (so much that I bought instead of rented.) Just for reference, my German Shepherd is CGC and certified for SAR, and kept kenneled throughout the day, and what I heard from landlords was 'if I let you...I have to let others.' Not saying it was impossible, but the cost difference was really high, and the places lower in quality.

 

[Caninerepro]

I have yet to see a breed restriction on Australian Shepherds, and I actually found that as a vet student landlords were MORE willing to rent to me, having dogs, versus non vet students with them.

 

[sumstorm]

I have yet to see a breed restriction on Australian Shepherds, and I actually found that as a vet student landlords were MORE willing to rent to me, having dogs, versus non vet students with them.

I have, but they are pretty rare! I saw some in the NYC and chicago area, but it was truely the exception! I haven't had aussies since '96....but my biggest babe is a german, and GSD's are routinely listed. I have seen a few other suprises herer and there (including ACD's and shiba's)

 

[cowgirla]

I have, but they are pretty rare! I saw some in the NYC and chicago area, but it was truely the exception! I haven't had aussies since '96....but my biggest babe is a german, and GSD's are routinely listed. I have seen a few other suprises herer and there (including ACD's and shiba's)

Breed restrictions are a pain in the butt. Give me a pittie over a chi any day!

I've been bitten twice while working as a vet tech. Once was a few months ago, by a chihuahua.
The first was about four years ago, completely unprovoked by a golden retriever. He was sitting there, wagging his tail. I was standing by the desk, dropped my hand down by my side, and WHAM he lunged and, I almost lost a finger.


"There's no such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners"

 

[SaintSamson]

cowgirla - so very true, haha. Most of my luck runs out on pugs... I have sensitive/thin skin, so when I get scratched at all, it's really noticeable. For some reason, they always have me holding the pugs for nail trims and don't give me enough time to burrito-wrap them in a towel.... lesson learned - I'm investing in more long sleeve shirts.

I have rented for the past 2 years in 2 different places, so I have experience searching for pet friendly housing (most would consider it, some seemed iffy, and one guy laughed outright in my face). At the moment, we have a fabulous yard that's big and fully fenced, but my roommate situation is going down the drain, so eventually, I will be looking for a different situation. It's good to know that people are sometimes more keen on the idea of renting to vet students with dogs as opposed to non-vet people with jobs.

I would love to get another Aussie at some point, but I just want to be aware of whether in the next year or so would be a good time, or if I should wait. I definitely want to ensure the right fit and not do anything impulsive.

Thanks for all the tips, guys 🙂 It has given me more stuff to consider and think about.

 

[Harumph]

Thanks for all this info. I'm especially curious to find out which schools are in the areas that are kindest to people with more 'controversial' breeds, so the topics on bsl are great for me.

Since being away from the house is such a big issue... has anyone ever tried hiring a dog walker or sending their animal to a "doggie daycare" type place a few days a week? Or is this not plausible?

 

[Groominator]

I plan to not just research responsible breeders, but bloodlines, genetics, temperament, etc., though not in that order

Good for you for doing your research on a breeder before just getting the pup. 👍

But something to consider is whether the breeder will sell you the dog. Vet school is a HUGE time commitment, I'm sure the breeder can understand this (and may not sell you the dog). Aussies, as you know, are an intense high-energy breed. A dog at about a year or two is still a teenager, who will get bored, test boundaries, and find ways to occupy itself. IMO it isn't a good idea when you are living alone and have to spend an incredible amount of time with studies, labs, whatever, even if your older dog deals with it okay. Besides, when you're stressed (and lets be realistic, you will be), that isn't the best time to try and train a puppy that needs patience. I'd see a puppy in vet school as a good deal of frustration to both you and the pup.

BUUUUUT a lot of breeders will place older dogs into homes. Retired show dogs, retired breeding dogs, dogs that have suddenly had to be neutered for whatever reason, etc etc etc. This may be a better idea for you, since you really want to add another dog to your household. Still a purebred Aussie, but one that's mature physically and mentally. The dog is likely to have a good bit of training and socialization in its background, making your job a bit easier.

 

[SaintSamson]

Thanks for the response 🙂

Although the idea of a puppy is appealing (when are puppies not appealing? haha), I'm not ruling anything out yet, and will still be looking at more adult dogs/aussie rescues. I also have seen it to be quite common for breeders to sell 6 month - 12 month dogs that they were planning to keep for show and something just didn't work out, so that's another possibility.
Temperament is a big portion of what I'm looking for. At the moment, I use take 2 big study breaks (30-45 minutes) and use that time to work on training with my dog. Since I have to be calm and patient, it often helps to lessen my stress by concentrating on something entirely different. Of course, each dog is different, and time will be less available in vet school.

With big decisions, such as adding a pet to the family, I like to make careful and educated decisions, so that you for reminding me of some more pros/cons/stuff to consider about it. So thank you guys for adding advice and info for me, I truly appreciate it.

 

[sumstorm]

Thanks for all this info. I'm especially curious to find out which schools are in the areas that are kindest to people with more 'controversial' breeds, so the topics on bsl are great for me.

Since being away from the house is such a big issue... has anyone ever tried hiring a dog walker or sending their animal to a "doggie daycare" type place a few days a week? Or is this not plausible?

I can't say much about BSL...and my school apparently wasn't really up on the topic either, since they were quoting that the town I live in has a pet limit of 2. Apparently the limit was placed in 2007, but when the protests were so vocal, and there were issues about grandfathering, etc, they repealed the restriction within two months. The school was still sending it out to us as information for finding housing this past summer. I know the AKC had a lecture here about it yesterday.

As for dog walker/daycare, quite honestly I couldn't afford one. I do know classmates who go home at lunch most days, or have roommates to let the dogs out earlier (especially those whose roomates are local undergrads.) I have seen students asking for other students that routinely run/walk to take a dog with them for a small fee. I set my house up to have an indoor/outdoor style run; x-pen in a room, doggie door to the outside where a 6' kennel is set up on a gravel run, within a 4' chainlink yard fence. So far, it has worked really well, even when I have had an extremly long day.

 

[SaintSamson]

That's a fabulous idea, sumstorm. I know that while I will have the ability to cover vet/food/etc costs for my pets, doggy daycare will be outside my finances unless I cut down on cookies/toys, heh. At the moment, I live in an area that is a bit questionable for dogs - there are lots of missing dog reports and stolen dog reports, and several cases of 'dog walkers' never coming back with the dogs. Roommates or other students the routinely run/walk sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure I could trust a total stranger with my dog alone. An outdoor/indoor run situation sounds brilliant, though, and something to keep in mind. Thanks for the idea!

 

[Harumph]

At the moment, I live in an area that is a bit questionable for dogs - there are lots of missing dog reports and stolen dog reports, and several cases of 'dog walkers' never coming back with the dogs.

EEK! Oh god, that would be awful.

I forgot how expensive doggie daycare can be... I lucked out: the playgroup that takes my dog a few days a week basically does it for free. I probably won't get so lucky if I have to move. The run sounds like a great idea.

Oh, and thanks for the info about your school, sumstorm. Pitbulls are pretty common as adopted family pets in my town, so I've never experienced BSL before and the whole idea of it kinda freaks me out. Plus, I once saw a video of cops breaking into some woman's home while she was away and taking her dog because it looked like a pitbull. So now I'm paranoid. 🙄

 

[bunnity]

If you're in an area with high dog theft I would strongly recommend against an indoor-outdoor run. I can't tell you how many people I see every week at the shelter who had their dogs stolen out of their yards. In this particular city I would never leave a dog outside without me.

As far as cutting costs on dog walking if you could find a reliable teenager that might work. I think I started dog walking for my neighbors when I was about 12. My friends did it for free since their parents wouldn't let them accept money for it and it was the next best thing to having their own dog.

 

[cowgirla]

If you're in an area with high dog theft I would strongly recommend against an indoor-outdoor run. I can't tell you how many people I see every week at the shelter who had their dogs stolen out of their yards. In this particular city I would never leave a dog outside without me.

I suppose that's one plus to having a dog with minor separation anxiety--I can't leave her outside alone or the neighbors would probably call the cops. She's fine alone indoors, but something about being outside and "confined" freaks her out.

The other good news: She's so freaking neurotic that if someone did try to steal her, they'd probably bring her back with an hour!

I'm really hoping I'll be able to find a place thats close enough to campus for me to make it home every eight hours or so. My pup's used to being alone on my long days, and I imght consider getting her a "playmate" eventually.
(And I want an apt with a washer/dryer. And I want to live alone. a fenced yard would be great too! Wishful thinking...)

 

[SaintSamson]

An indoor/outdoor run is not something I'd consider using now, but in the future in a different location.
Despite being tagged and microchipped, I still worry. Our current yard is fully enclosed by a 7ft fence and both gates have security locks on them. The only time he is outside by himself is when I can see him from the window, but I rarely let him out alone. Due to the influence of my roommate's Heeler, he has become very protective of his yard. On walks, at work, wherever, he is totally fine, but from the house/yard, he has a big bellowing warning bark. (Our poor mailman....)

((Lol, ideally, I want to live alone, in a small place, with a nice fully fenced yard, with a front loading washer and dryer, a nice bathroom..... I'm fantastic at wishful thinking!! Although, it tends to stray far from reality, haha)

Thanks for the advice about a young teenager, I hadn't thought of that 🙂

 

[nyanko]

"There's no such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners"

I don't know about that! The idea of "nature vs nurture" nowadays is a false dichotomy, and there are obvious influences of both genetics and environment on behavior. How else can you explain the fact that many Aussies never taught to herd still try to herd children or cats? Selection pressure was applied on dog breeds for both behavioral and physical traits, and there are breeds predisposed to different types of aggression, whether it be territorial, prey or dog aggression.

With that it should also follow that within breeds there is variation that can be attributed some to genetic factors and some to environment as well. Some sighthounds might have very little chase instinct, and some Aussies may be more content to lay on the couch than to spend all day herding. This can be modified some with training, but the plasticity really appears to be its own attribute as well that varies from individual to individual.

So at the end of the day, the main assertion that BSL is not the best way to go about things and that dogs should be treated as individuals regardless of breed still holds. However, it isn't all because of "bad owners" that this is the case.

edit: moral relativism concerning the abstract concept of "bad" when applied to animal behavior notwithstanding, of course! 😉

 

[MaChien]

I don't know about that! The idea of "nature vs nurture" nowadays is a false dichotomy, and there are obvious influences of both genetics and environment on behavior. How else can you explain the fact that many Aussies never taught to herd still try to herd children or cats? Selection pressure was applied on dog breeds for both behavioral and physical traits, and there are breeds predisposed to different types of aggression, whether it be territorial, prey or dog aggression.

With that it should also follow that within breeds there is variation that can be attributed some to genetic factors and some to environment as well. Some sighthounds might have very little chase instinct, and some Aussies may be more content to lay on the couch than to spend all day herding. This can be modified some with training, but the plasticity really appears to be its own attribute as well that varies from individual to individual.

So at the end of the day, the main assertion that BSL is not the best way to go about things and that dogs should be treated as individuals regardless of breed still holds. However, it isn't all because of "bad owners" that this is the case.

edit: moral relativism concerning the abstract concept of "bad" when applied to animal behavior notwithstanding, of course! 😉

I agree with you, hound dogs sniff, shepherd dogs herd. GSD are actually bred with intensity levels, low drive dogs for family pets, and high drive for police work. But I think that most of the blame falls on irresponsible owners, I spent a long time researching breeds before I decided on my newfie. I always wanted a GSD but I knew I did NOT have 2+ hours a day to take her for a walk. German Shepherds need a lot of exercise and brain stimulation for a happy dog. Newfies are sweet and lazy dogs, a bit messy, but I can deal with that. A lot of people buy dogs for the way they look, and don't bother to give them the personalized care their particular breed needs. I think a lot of dog "aggression" could be avoided if the dog was properly trained, and loved the way they needed to be loved.

 

[twelvetigers]

But I want a weenie dog because it's so cuuuuuute!

Of course I live in an apartment, have neighbors that hate noise, and have no patience. But I'll think it's adorable when she tries to bite your nose off! She's justa momma's girl is all.

 

[bunnity]

But I want a weenie dog because it's so cuuuuuute!

Of course I live in an apartment, have neighbors that hate noise, and have no patience. But I'll think it's adorable when she tries to bite your nose off! She's justa momma's girl is all.

I see you have a five year old Pomeranian. I would like to adopt him for my two year old.

That was one from yesterday.

 

[cowgirla]

I see you have a five year old Pomeranian. I would like to adopt him for my two year old.

That was one from yesterday.

"My wife and I want a dog. I want something that can go hiking and running with me. My wife wants something small. So we decided a pug would be the best dog for us, and we want that one over there."

Now, please note, this an animal shelter...the pug he was pointing to was nine years old.

I wanted to strangle somebody since he didn't understand why I wouldn't let him adopt that dog...

 

[nyanko]

A lot of people buy dogs for the way they look, and don't bother to give them the personalized care their particular breed needs. I think a lot of dog "aggression" could be avoided if the dog was properly trained, and loved the way they needed to be loved.

Oh, I absolutely agree with the first part of this (and it's a shame!), but I'm not sure about the second. I don't really believe that prey aggression or territorial aggression could be "trained out" of a typical example of a drivey or territorial breed, for example. It may be able to be suppressed, but we're talking about animals here, and there is always a threshold where instinct is going to trump your commands. That's where your first point comes in, I think. It is an owner's responsibility to know the breed and dog well enough to keep the dog out of situations where the instinct would cause "misbehavior," whether it be staying away from the dog park if you have a dog prone to dog aggression or always keeping your sighthound on lead in a non-fenced area.

In reality, the majority of people don't do this, and that's what leads to things like BSL being proposed in the first place. I still wouldn't really call them "bad owners" though, just misinformed and doing what everyone else does. We can dig deep into society and try to figure out why this is, but that's not really my domain so much.

 

[SaintSamson]

lol, I truly don't understand people that get dogs just because they want to 'own a dog' or what have you.
My old neighbor had a goofy 8yr (guessing) Golden Retriever... every time they left, they left him in this small side yard that was completely brick. Often, without water. And almost as often, the dog would let itself out and the neighbors were constantly bringing it back home.
These people also hit their own 5 month old kitten with their huge SUV and when I called and told them it wasn't bearing weight, they said they'd be back soon and to stick it in the side yard. They were gone for over 8 hours....
That was frustrating and annoying.