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For: TOEJAM

Discussion in 'Clinicians [ RN / NP / PA ]' started by Temple1st, Aug 21, 2002.

  1. Temple1st

    Temple1st Member 7+ Year Member

    54
    0
    Aug 14, 2002
    Philadelphia
    What's up Doc? I was reading a lot of your post about res. salaries and had some problems with your $10k per year. I looked at the 2002 fact sheet and found that the average salary is about $35K per year and some top positions around $50K and $60K. Why was your's only $10K. Again, I have the 2002 fact sheet in PDF format if you want it. Also note that the 2 and 3 year programs also have pay increases per year and the good ole military starts you off as a Captain with about $48K in pay(total) plus benefits. So, if you couldn't get a high paying residency why didn't you go in the military for residency?
     
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  3. ussdfiant

    ussdfiant Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    1,623
    9
    Jul 31, 2001
    Limbo
    I'm not Toejam, hell, I'm not even going to be a Podiatrist but I am interested in seeing that fact sheet. Can you post a link? I also didn't think pods got commissioned as officers and didn't know there were military residencies for podiatry, are you sure that info is correct?
     
  4. Temple1st

    Temple1st Member 7+ Year Member

    54
    0
    Aug 14, 2002
    Philadelphia
    Hi again DFIANT! A couldn't find where I picked up the fact sheet but if u want it I'll email it. Here is the 1st few to give you some idea. These are all Surgical and yes the complete sheet goes on for several more pages. The ARMY info is correct. My mentor was a "Full Bird" Colonel Retired and of course highly recomended the army. Search the web for army podiatric residency and u will find them. A good one is at Womack Army Hospital at Fort Gragg NC. Or simply Email the army and ask for all info like I did and get it from the horses mouth. U can read negative stuff about podiatry but be careful. Look for yourself! I heard that crap about $10k a year residency and looked for myself and this is the truth! Thank God applications are down. Maybe most of us will get Surgical training.




    RESIDENCY PROGRAM SUMMARY CHART
    APPLICANT CPME APPROVAL STIPEND
    PROGRAM NAME PROGRAM FEE DEADLIN Type # # Funded # WOC Year One Year Two Year Three Year Four
    0815 Albert Einstein Med Ctr/Germantown $30.00 11/15/2002 RPR: 1 1 0 $37,200
    CRIP: EAST PSR-12: 1 1 0 $38,000
    0339 Alliance Community Hospital $0.00 12/1/2002 PSR-24: 1 1 0 $27,500 $30,000
    CRIP: No
    0961 Benedictine Hospital $25.00 12/8/2002 RPR: 2 2 0 $26,000
    CRIP: EAST PSR-12: 2 2 0 $27,500
    0916 Beth Israel Deaconess Med Ctr $40.00 12/15/2002 RPR: 2 2 0 $38,200
    CRIP: EAST PSR-24: 2 2 0 $40,000 $41,800
    0813 Bon Secours/Canterbury Partnership $35.00 11/1/2002 PSR-24+: 2 2 0 $32,000 $35,000 $39,000
    CRIP: No
    0301 Botsford General Hospital $40.00 11/15/2002 PPMR: 3 3 0 $35,500
    CRIP: CENTRAL PSR-24: 3 3 0 $36,750 $38,000
    0803 Bryn Mawr Hospital $25.00 11/1/2002 PSR-24: 1 1 0 $36,500 $38,200
    CRIP: EAST
    0602 BUSGMS/Columbia Cedars/PPMR $25.00 11/1/2002 PPMR: 13 11 2 $22,500
    CRIP: No PSR-24: 1 0 0
    0901 Cabrini Medical Center $50.00 12/15/2002 PPMR: 3 3 0 $44,050
    CRIP: No PSR-12: 2 2 0 $46,900
    0902 Cambridge Health Alliance $45.00 11/23/2002 PSR-24+: 2 2 0 $41,216 $42,873 $44,540
    CRIP: EAST
    0903 Carney Hospital Podiatric Res Prog $40.00 11/1/2002 RPR: 1 1 0 $33,807
    CRIP: EAST PSR-12: 1 1 0 $35,356
    0182 Cedars Sinai Medical Center $0.00 11/9/2002 PSR-24: 1 1 0 $35,075 $35,075
    CRIP: WEST
    0177 Century City Hospital $35.00 11/1/2002 RPR: 2 2 0 $25,800
    CRIP: WEST PSR-12: 2 2 0 $27,800
    0836 Christiana Care Hlth Serv Res Progs $0.00 11/1/2002 RPR: 1 1 0 $36,213
    CRIP: No PSR-12: 1 1 0 $37,065
    0330 Cleveland Clinic Foundation $0.00 11/5/2002 PPMR: 11 11 0 $32,500
    CRIP: No
     
  5. Temple1st

    Temple1st Member 7+ Year Member

    54
    0
    Aug 14, 2002
    Philadelphia
    Opps! That's Fort BRAGG NC. Here is the link you wanted http://www.aacpm.org/residencies/CASPRdir.asp This will give info about ALL residencies as well as GPA requirements, listings by state, surgical nonsurgical, etc.. These are in many Pdf files. In all fairness I thought you should have %100 of the info, not just what I posted. I didn't want to seem biased. I found a handful of low paying and very high paying positions but the average is about $35K. I also found a 1year fellowship in Western PA for wound care after completion of a 2 year surgical residency (PSR24).
     
  6. efs

    efs SDN Advisor SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    457
    1
    Jul 20, 2001
    Germany
    The info is for the most part correct. (Thanks Temple).

    I was also going to post a link to aacpm. You can do a quick websearch and find their site. Follow the links from there to the CASPR and CRIP pages for more info than you really need.

    I am also fairly familiar with the military. Podiatrists have been commissioned officers, starting at O-3 (CPT in the Army and Air Force, LT in Navy).

    Army currently has residency programs at Fort Bragg and Fort Gordon (both at Army Medical Centers.) Starting pay would actually work out to about $42K for someone with no prior service time, but this doesn't take into account that about 10K of that is a tax free housing allowance. There are other benefits as well.

    I don't think the Air Force has any residency positions available, and I believe you must have at least 1 year of surgical training for them to consider you.

    Navy has some odd ways of doing things. I am not aware of all the specifics. I think their residency may include some time at a couple of VA hospitals in conjunction with rotations at Bethesda. They may also have some time spent at some Marine posts. They also do some of their training at Fort Bragg. The Navy also recently started a loan repayment program. (Don't go and get excited yet though). It seems it is more of an incentive type pay to keep people in rather than to bring in new people.

    There are some places that do offer 10K/year, but this is nowhere near the norm. There are also places that offer positions "without compensation". Expect to see some changes in the next couple years as CME/AACPM/Etc work on revamping the requirements and designations for the residencies.
     
  7. Temple1st

    Temple1st Member 7+ Year Member

    54
    0
    Aug 14, 2002
    Philadelphia
    BTW efs, I noticed your location as NC. I geuss that means your home town or Undergrad? I was wondering b/c I am from Greensboro, NC. School: UNCG. Just wanted to know where u got your B.S. or B.A.?
     
  8. efs

    efs SDN Advisor SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    457
    1
    Jul 20, 2001
    Germany
    Actually the NC was from Ft. Bragg. Spent 4 years there in Fayetteville prior to Pod School.

    Undergrad BS from Methodist College.
     
  9. Toejam

    Toejam Terminal Student 7+ Year Member

    801
    0
    May 12, 2002
    35 miles from Pomona
    Don't worry. I won't take offense that you doubt the veracity of my own, personal experience.

    As I've said, I made 10k per year at Los Angeles County/USC Medical Center from 1998-1999. There were 11 other residents with me who all made the same chicken scratch. Some of them had wives and children. One of them went on food stamps to help feed, cloth and shelter his child and wife. I was the only one who opted to work since I had no other choice. I waited tables on the weekends often being on call and sometimes having to run back to the hospital to tend to a patient or scrub in with some ortho or gen surg residents. It was nothing less than surreal.

    This residency was incredible for the general medicine it exposed you to. The hospital was strapped for residents and, due to this, relied on the podiatry interns just as they would their own medical interns and 1st year residents. Even though none of us had ever seen the inside of a hospital, we put on our game faces and played doctor pretty convincingly. It was an incredible experience, but since it was only a PPMR it didn't really translate into my current reality of chip, clip, strap and advise.

    CCPM provided all of the residents and I believe that it was an active residency for about 5-10 years or so. It also had a podiatry clinic, which the residents ran with 4th year students.

    The year that I was there all 12 residents formed a loose union of sorts and began discussions with the union head of the MD residents union. Basically, the pay conditions were intolerable for us and I was going to have a nervous breakdown from working 100 hours a week as a resident and then supplementing the slave wages with slopping steaks and salad.

    I was one of the leaders of our group and we made excellent headway in terms of raising our stipend to a reasonable level. We organized a strike in front of the hospital that was attended by many MD residents and other health care students and practitioners. It was on local TV and on the radio. We met several times with the local union representatives and even had a round table discussion with members of the Los Angeles City Council. They finally agreed to our demands of a pay raise (from 10k to 20k).

    Unfortunately, before the pay raise could be implemented, someone decided that a podiatry residency was unecessary and they discontinued it.

    I know that this is not the norm in terms of compensation. efs is right when he says that there still are some programs that pay this little and there are some that pay nothing.

    I hope it improves because nobody should have to go through what we did, least of which someone who invested a ton of money for an advanced education.
     
  10. Temple1st

    Temple1st Member 7+ Year Member

    54
    0
    Aug 14, 2002
    Philadelphia
    Hi Toe. My question was if u could not get a better residency back then, why not the Army? I do realize that your program and some still today only offer peanuts but this is not the norm. Part of the reason why i posted is because I read a lot of your post before I was accepted to Pod school and almost withdrew b/c I thought u were describing the norm or average resident salary. Luckily I looked for myself and saw a different picture: average $35K. I just want other GOOD prospective students to be completely informed. Just as DFIANT said are you sure, can I see that too? (my own words, aka paraphrase). DFIANT also said before, that reading the post stopped him from going to Pod School. This is not fair b/c the post are not unbiased and do not give quantitative facts. My intentions were not to insult. We need u experienced Pods out there to help us in the future. When you experienced Pods had mishaps in rotations or residencies tell us young guys how to avoid these mistakes but don't blame the whole profession. For every $10K residency there are 3 $40k residencies, etc. Tell us how to get the good ones and stay away from the low or no pay programs.

    Thanx.
     
  11. Toejam

    Toejam Terminal Student 7+ Year Member

    801
    0
    May 12, 2002
    35 miles from Pomona
    I was a bit old for the Army. When I was in pod school, I was 33 years old as a first year.

    My feelings about podiatry center around many other issues. I never made a big deal about the ridiculous stipend that I received. I mentioned it mostly as an amazing tale of podiatry. This should be the last thing that you consider. Clearly, there are more residencies that pay reasonable amounts compared with my situation.

    I would think that my posts would only prompt someone to investigate a little deeper rather than outright convince them not to matriculate. I truly hope that hopeful students have more intelligence than that.
     
  12. efs

    efs SDN Advisor SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    457
    1
    Jul 20, 2001
    Germany
    As the number of new residents vs residency slots start to come together, you will see most if not all of the low to no pay residencies vanish.
    With the changes in the residency program designations, I think you will also see improvements.

    Don't expect it to happen overnight, but it is getting better.
     
  13. Temple1st

    Temple1st Member 7+ Year Member

    54
    0
    Aug 14, 2002
    Philadelphia
    since u have army experience, this question is directed your way. As far as being too old for the Army, I read on thier website that we have untill the age of 40 to be commissioned as a CPT and that we don't have to go through Basic training but have to go through OCS and after going through the Army PSR24 we would get a pay increase or Rank advancement? I know your not a recruiter but you probably know more about this than we do.
     
  14. Temple1st

    Temple1st Member 7+ Year Member

    54
    0
    Aug 14, 2002
    Philadelphia
    Since this thread is--- For: Toejam, I wanted to wish u luck on getting in to D.O. school! Let us all know when and where u get in. Notice I said when and not if! I know with all your experience and an advanced degree u will have no problems! Don't forget about us Pods. Send some patients our way!
     
  15. Toejam

    Toejam Terminal Student 7+ Year Member

    801
    0
    May 12, 2002
    35 miles from Pomona
    Thanks for the positive note, Temple.

    I've said all along that I have nothing but respect for podiatrists. I'm just sick of the whole system and the general lack of respect that we get in the real world. It doesn't affect some people, but it really affects me.

    I'm only applying to one DO school, Western. I sent in my completed secondary yesterday and I got all of my LOR's together. The only problem that I have right now is I still don't have a DO LOR. I e-mailed two that I had contact with as a pod, but neither has written back.
     

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