Foreign Dentists at UDM

[Dr2BSoon]

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Yesterday the class of 2011 at UDM found out that our class size will be increased by 11 starting May 19th (the first day of DS2 year)! 🙁 The new 11 students are foreign trained dentists. Is this a good thing or a bad thing, because our class in general is very unhappy about this.

 

[tinman831]

Why are yall unhappy? Here at Tufts we had about 20 or so international students join our class. Several are already dentists, even one with an MD and are here to advance their training. You could probably learn a lot from them. They're no different than the international students who have been in your class since day one.

 

[kubird144]

You can't change the fact that they're coming so I would try to use this to your advantage... These new classmates of yours probably have a lot of real-world dental experience and they would be a great source of dental knowledge outside of your professors.

 

[Dr2BSoon]

I am not sure how I feel, since to be trite "it is what it is". I think my classmates are afraid that the foreigners will ruin our curve, need extra attention and therefore monopolize the profs time, and not be able to communicate with us due to a language barrier. Has this been the case for any of you who had students added to your classes?

 

[musl85]

i dont think language would be an issue since they all had to take NDBE and TOEFL exam, which require proficiency in english. Also, you only need to look at the international dentist forum to see that they speak pretty good english. Also, at least where i come from, most of the dental classes are taught in english as well.

i dunno about professor time, but i would assume they need less attention, since they have already taken all the science courses and have real world experience, but that is just my opinion.

 

[desert rat]

Stop worrying about such silly things. You will have enough to worry with just trying to make your grades etc. Be happy to learn other cultures and make friends. The person from the other country make end up being a close friend and really help you out.

 

[g3k]

I am not sure how I feel, since to be trite "it is what it is". I think my classmates are afraid that the foreigners will ruin our curve, need extra attention and therefore monopolize the profs time, and not be able to communicate with us due to a language barrier. Has this been the case for any of you who had students added to your classes?

I don't know about UDM, but here at University of Minnesota the FTD's are not graded with the regular students. We are graded within us, though we take classes with the regular students and go to clinics with the regular students. I understand that change is hard but please don't take it on the newcomers. It is hard enough to come to a different country crossing all barriers but to know we are not welcome is sad.

 

[dentyce]

Is this new to UDM?

In 2005, I was applying to dental schools as a FTD, and we were living in Detroit (Farmington Hills) at the time. Late into the acceptance cycle, I got a call from them accepting me into their program, but by then I'd already accepted NYU's offer. At any rate, back then, they wanted to take 2-4 FTD's per year and build up the program (because, I believe, UofM was also starting a similar initiative). So, three years down the road they're taking 11 FTD's into the program.

Just take a stroll down Hamtramack, or Dearborn, and it's probably a good thing that the UDM program is integrating more FTD's into their program. So relax, in the long run, we're not out to steal your thunder.... 🙂 .... i can honestly say that after integrating with the normal D2 students at NYU, I have learned as much from them as they have from me... and some of the nicest people I've met and become friends with have been from the normal program. It REALLY is an opportunity.... don't look at it any other way.

Good luck... and cut us FTD's some slack when the 11 show up next year... cheers...

 

[pietrodds]

dude, if the school's don't bring in foreign dentists where do you think all the corporate chains are going to find their indentured servants???

 

[runfast520]

Why not except more 1st year students instead of accepting foreign trained?? most of them come from countries that need dentists more than the US

 

[malboro27]

no comments on this statement ................

dude, if the school's don't bring in foreign dentists where do you think all the corporate chains are going to find their indentured servants???

 

[malboro27]

what about if for any reason in the future u have to go out of the country becuse of your husband /wife job or any other reason and the foreign country do not allow you to practice dentistry.how would you feel? the only way for foreign dentist to practice in US is going back to dental school.which I consider is not necesary but still I am in a foreign country and I have to go by its rules .nobody is taken your seats ,most of the programs are separated but in case is not, try to be more competitive because there are just few spots for us and believe me is highly competitive to get into an advanced standing program.

Why not except more 1st year students instead of accepting foreign trained?? most of them come from countries that need dentists more than the US

 

[wife of ftd]

Yesterday the class of 2011 at UDM found out that our class size will be increased by 11 starting May 19th (the first day of DS2 year)! 🙁 The new 11 students are foreign trained dentists. Is this a good thing or a bad thing, because our class in general is very unhappy about this.

Why are you unhappy about this? What does it even have to do with you? These people were dentists in their country and have a lot to offer and got in through their own hard work and merit. You should treat them as part of your class ---I am a US citizen and am very embarrassed of the responses some are posting..especially the one about them being indentured servants. America is a country of immigrants..don't be so ignorant.

 

[dmdmtl]

I'm one of those dentists who moved to a different country. MY husband is American and he had a great job as a commercial pilot. I was a successful dentist in Canada, had great patients and was making good money. But l decided to take the chance and started a new life in the US....
I'm pretty lucky, I only had to take NBDE to be able to apply for my license...but let's just say that it's NOT easy to have to go back to your books after all those years...

So, I can imagine how hard it must be for a foreign dentist to have to go back to school!!!

So, you should be open-minded and see that as a great opportunity to meet experienced new colleagues. You might be surprised....

 

[pietrodds]

Please do not misdirect my dismay towards corporate dentistry to that of foreign trained dentists I briefly worked at a corp and I worked with many who are excellent clinicians. I feel bad that they're in the situations they are because I know many would not chose to work for the corp if the had the option not to. My point is that these corporations use these unfortunate individuals to perpetuate their own interests. They sponsor these folks and hold it as a 'carrot on a stick' over these dentists. It is often more difficult for them to find jobs in private practices and banks won't provide them with loans to have their own practices because they're not citizens. These folks also tend to have a much stronger work ethic than most of the people I went to dental school with. Please do not misinterpret my message as I'm in not way insinuating that these folks are somehow inferior dentists. It just sucks that many of the chain dental corporations prey on these individuals because of their unfortunate circumstances.

 

[musl85]

.

 

[Thaxil]

"afraid that the foreigners will ruin our curve" - I could not think of a more idiotic reason for not accepting them. Sounds kind of gay to me.

"need extra attention and therefore monopolize the profs time" - By the time you get in to the clinic and work a few terms, you will most likely want nothing to do with the profs since they just slow you down with multiple checks on every thing,

 

[doc2006]

Dr2Bsoon..
Its really sad to see that you and your classmates are merely afraid of the class competition..
What will you do when you WILL come out of the school and practice in real world.. Would you going to stop the practice of those FTD's clinics?
First of all, They are not going to take to much time of professor..As they know much of the things..
They will be there because they have to go through this process of getting license and working permit here...otherwise no one like to study same subjects or material TWICE....
Most of them might have good experience and there are possibility that you might get to learn from their experiences.. but first of all you have to be friends with them... and also respect them for their courage of going to school again...Most of them might have responsibility of their family to take care of..NOW they are not only student.. I hope that you can understand.
FTDs got their admission on the basis of their hard work and merit. They are not there to compete with you but just to get the degree...
Good luck to you...

 

[docsmiley]

how pathetic can you get???do you think that foreign dentists are lower than you all-americans????
you r grossly mistaken..let me tell you..they pay much more to secure admission and are clinically wayyyyyyyyy better than you guys to take up ur prof's time...and they do not necessarily come from a non english speaking land .and may be you should look up the indian, chinese economy and the american economy..just to see who stands where...and btw, ever heard of medical and dental tourism?????go do your research on it..
and you vl soon learn from ur batch ftd's ..whose manual dexterity is better....enjoy...

 

[docsmiley]

Why not except more 1st year students instead of accepting foreign trained?? most of them come from countries that need dentists more than the US

ignorance is obvious...do you know that american grads now choose to do their medical, dental and pharma schools like in the carribeans, mexico, india, korea etcand come here to do idp, or medical residency???
and they become much more smarter , clinically experienced with good manual dexterity especially in surgery...

 

[kato999]

how pathetic can you get???do you think that foreign dentists are lower than you all-americans????
you r grossly mistaken..let me tell you..they pay much more to secure admission and are clinically wayyyyyyyyy better than you guys to take up ur prof's time...and they do not necessarily come from a non english speaking land .and may be you should look up the indian, chinese economy and the american economy..just to see who stands where...and btw, ever heard of medical and dental tourism?????go do your research on it..
and you vl soon learn from ur batch ftd's ..whose manual dexterity is better....enjoy...

Somebody's gotta a little chip...

 

[hazelnut123]

I am not sure how I feel, since to be trite "it is what it is". I think my classmates are afraid that the foreigners will ruin our curve, need extra attention and therefore monopolize the profs time, and not be able to communicate with us due to a language barrier. Has this been the case for any of you who had students added to your classes?

they are much more global than you guys...coming here...clearing toefl, learning english...
how many langauges do you know????
and how much do you know about cultures in countries across the world???they have more real world experience than the local dental graduate students....global..thats what its called...fyi...
can you go to school , say in syria and work there??you would just run..
and ..you will learn to avoid your prof's soon..

 

[hazelnut123]

dude, if the school's don't bring in foreign dentists where do you think all the corporate chains are going to find their indentured servants???

schools benefit from their money as well...they are not given scholarships..and obviously, ftds use the corporates for their own benefits..and quit later after some years..win-win situation..

 

[hazelnut123]

Yesterday the class of 2011 at UDM found out that our class size will be increased by 11 starting May 19th (the first day of DS2 year)! 🙁 The new 11 students are foreign trained dentists. Is this a good thing or a bad thing, because our class in general is very unhappy about this.

very rude to say that...they dont depend on you for any thing..so why be bothered???take care of your own problems and grades...wish you luck..

 

[Vejaeju]

I had to read the messages when I saw the topic...They are sooo funny! I am a FTD and also an American citizen...So, maybe I will not fall prey of the coorporate dentistry...hahahahahaha. My husband is an American, and that's the reason why I am here. I can't say I don't like the country. I actually learned to love it and I am proud to say now that I am an American. But a few little things still make me laugh about the American culture. One of them is the total lack of knowledge about the world surrounding these people! Why would you think that if you didn't go to school in the US you must be stupid or your knowledge is crap? They have no idea that before we even apply to dental schools we have to pass at least two stupid tests, I mean not only pass but get high scores.
I just took my TOEFL test today and took the NBDE I ten days ago...I wish I was an American graduate, so I could only "pass" the NBDE with a score of 75...hahahahahahaha.

Peace on Earth!

 

[dds85]

I am not sure how you are going to be a dentist in a very diverse country 😕😕 Are you going to specialize in treating some races but not the others ? or maybe only people who were born in the US?

Yesterday the class of 2011 at UDM found out that our class size will be increased by 11 starting May 19th (the first day of DS2 year)! 🙁 The new 11 students are foreign trained dentists. Is this a good thing or a bad thing, because our class in general is very unhappy about this.

 

[hazelnut123]

Yesterday the class of 2011 at UDM found out that our class size will be increased by 11 starting May 19th (the first day of DS2 year)! 🙁 The new 11 students are foreign trained dentists. Is this a good thing or a bad thing, because our class in general is very unhappy about this.

thank you stars..you managed to go to the next year in your class..maybe you can consider not continuing, because of the ftd's in your class..stay in the ist grade..silly person...
and were your parents or their parents not immigrants once upon a time here????????????/ ask them the troubles they faced here..

 

[hazelnut123]

I had to read the messages when I saw the topic...They are sooo funny! I am a FTD and also an American citizen...So, maybe I will not fall prey of the coorporate dentistry...hahahahahaha. My husband is an American, and that's the reason why I am here. I can't say I don't like the country. I actually learned to love it and I am proud to say now that I am an American. But a few little things still make me laugh about the American culture. One of them is the total lack of knowledge about the world surrounding these people! Why would you think that if you didn't go to school in the US you must be stupid or your knowledge is crap? They have no idea that before we even apply to dental schools we have to pass at least two stupid tests, I mean not only pass but get high scores.
I just took my TOEFL test today and took the NBDE I ten days ago...I wish I was an American graduate, so I could only "pass" the NBDE with a score of 75...hahahahahahaha.

Peace on Earth!

i totally agree with you..they do not know how the other half in the world lives ..they feel america is the best...
brush up your knowledge about the recession and the plunging economy guys... foreclosures and high gas rates are screaming out of the rooftops...compare it with the japanese, korean indian, chinese economy..i think the ftd s should be worried about u guys...

 

[hazelnut123]

I am not sure how you are going to be a dentist in a very diverse country 😕😕 Are you going to specialize in treating some races but not the others ? or maybe only people who were born in the US?

ahh..then, maybe he/she will not be able to repay your loans..if you treat only americans..or you will have a couple of lawsuits on you ..

 

[NileBDS]

how pathetic can you get???do you think that foreign dentists are lower than you all-americans????
you r grossly mistaken..let me tell you..they pay much more to secure admission and are clinically wayyyyyyyyy better than you guys to take up ur prof's time...
...
and you vl soon learn from ur batch ftd's ..whose manual dexterity is better....enjoy...

they are much more global than you guys...coming here...clearing toefl, learning english...
how many langauges do you know????
and how much do you know about cultures in countries across the world???they have more real world experience than the local dental graduate students....global..thats what its called...fyi...
can you go to school , say in syria and work there??you would just run..
and ..you will learn to avoid your prof's soon..

I am not sure how you are going to be a dentist in a very diverse country 😕😕 Are you going to specialize in treating some races but not the others ? or maybe only people who were born in the US?

I would be pretty upset too if I found out this was the attitude of the add-on foreign trained students at UDM. You guys have a lot to learn and appreciate ... and I'm not talking about dentistry.

Don't forget that these DDS students at UDM are upset about the school administration, and not the advanced standing students per se. Put yourselves in their shoes, and you can almost immediately understand how adding 11 or so students to the DDS class, WITHOUT increasing the number of teachers, equipment, supplies or chairs in the clinic is clearly ripping them off.

 

[canthacklt]

how pathetic can you get???do you think that foreign dentists are lower than you all-americans????
you r grossly mistaken..let me tell you..they pay much more to secure admission and are clinically wayyyyyyyyy better than you guys

Doubt it. The vast majority of the FTDs who took WREB at my school failed, while only 2 out of my 60 classmates who took it failed. Also, most dental students don't settle for just "passing" the NBDE with a 75.

 

[Vejaeju]

Were the FTD your classmates also? We all know that you should take the regional boards in your own school, since it's too hard to get acquainted with different equipments right away. The failure rate would be high between the American graduates too if they had to take the test in a school other than the one they attended. And we all know that you have to have the ideal patients and bla, bla, bla.
Another point to consider is that as FTD we can apply to a residency and then take the WREB to get a license. If you are trained in Oral Surgery for 4 or 6 years, who knows when you stopped doing crowns and so on. It gets a little tricky to be perfect in all that crap. Some of us can't pay schools or private parts for additional training/review of Operatory Dentistry and Prosthodontics. These guys can charge $15,000 for a review course.
Again, it's the American mentality...They think they know everything...
I've seen so many posts in the NBDE section of the site where the American school graduates are crying because they only got a 74 in Part I and others desperate because if they don't pass part II they can't graduate...I am talking about what I have seen and not about what someone has told me...

 

[Brownstain]

Wow! Is your next post going to be about the minorities in your class? Are you affraid they are terrorists or something ready to wage a Jihad on you? Grow up kid, these are your colleagues. If this is your mindset you are going to be one crappy DR-2B-SOON. They should kick you off this board for even writing that.

 

[canthacklt]

Were the FTD your classmates also? We all know that you should take the regional boards in your own school, since it's too hard to get acquainted with different equipments right away. The failure rate would be high between the American graduates too if they had to take the test in a school other than the one they attended. And we all know that you have to have the ideal patients and bla, bla, bla.
Another point to consider is that as FTD we can apply to a residency and then take the WREB to get a license. If you are trained in Oral Surgery for 4 or 6 years, who knows when you stopped doing crowns and so on. It gets a little tricky to be perfect in all that crap. Some of us can't pay schools or private parts for additional training/review of Operatory Dentistry and Prosthodontics. These guys can charge $15,000 for a review course.
Again, it's the American mentality...They think they know everything...
I've seen so many posts in the NBDE section of the site where the American school graduates are crying because they only got a 74 in Part I and others desperate because if they don't pass part II they can't graduate...I am talking about what I have seen and not about what someone has told me...

I agree with what you said in the first part of your post. I have 2 FTDs in my immediate family, and I know it can be extremely difficult to come here and get licensed. But, your blanket statement about "American" mentality is pretty silly, I think. What exactly do "they" think they know? All I know is what I've seen in my personal experience, which is that many FTDs come here thinking they are superior to stupid Americans (including my relatives)because they have already finished dental school. I hate to break it to you, but I've encountered a handful of FTDs that are simply incompetent and not ready to practice here by the standards that are set. This is from my experience, not from what someone has told me. So, lets agree that unsupported blanket statements don't add anything to the conversation. 👍

As far as people complaining about the failing the NBDE, I have a feeling that people who fail this exam and are in danger of not graduating are more the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Vejaeju]

😎 All we want is a place under the sun...Especially where I live (Seattle).
I believe there are bad and good people everywhere. In your family and in mine, in American dentistry and in foreign dentistry. Let's remember we are talking about the whole world. Dental schools in Guatemala (nothing against them, just giving an example) may not be the same as the ones in Sweden, and so on. Generalization and ignorance are the issues. I posted my first reply in response to the 1st message in the thread, which I saw as a great example of the "mentality" I mentioned before.
Unfortunately the majority of the Americans relate immigration to search for a better life, which is not always the case.

 

[docsmiley]

😎 All we want is a place under the sun...Especially where I live (Seattle).
I believe there are bad and good people everywhere. In your family and in mine, in American dentistry and in foreign dentistry. Let's remember we are talking about the whole world. Dental schools in Guatemala (nothing against them, just giving an example) may not be the same as the ones in Sweden, and so on. Generalization and ignorance are the issues. I posted my first reply in response to the 1st message in the thread, which I saw as a great example of the "mentality" I mentioned before.
Unfortunately the majority of the Americans relate immigration to search for a better life, which is not always the case.

very very true..and many ftd's do take a sabbatical from studies or work before they can continue further as an international graduate...so, they lose touch..with practical work and take longer to clear exams..imagine reading basic anatomy, biochemistry after 12 to 15 years of dental school ans aiming to get aa 90+ on the exam...its tough..
also, an interesting experience...when i had gone to tour a school, i met an american dental student in that school..and she was amazed that dental school in india,my country has 85% girl students..while here, she told me, that` here, its exactly the other way around...its totally, a male dominated profession..i too was shocked to hear that...also, in the usa there are unethical or bad doctors..read chicago tribune where a dentist was associated with prostitutes and leasing them his apartments and cars..or a dentist whose child patient dies during sedation..such incidents are happening in the us of a..more than any where else...
and btw, each one here is either a first gen immigrant or a 2nd or 3rd gen immigrant ...this country runs on imigrants...and trust me..we have a better lifestyle in our country...in every way..than after coming here to the us of a..and not all come here because they are poor in their country..or there are no opportunities there..its personal reasons..like family which brings people here..things were different in the 1970's but now, tables have turned....americans and other people also, go to india, and other eastern countries for their medical and dental treatment...which is at par with the rest of the world...
even better and not dependant on whether he/ she has an HMO or PPO plan..
and even some sdn moderator here who is a foreign trained dentist has a comment in this thread..which is so sad to read...

 

[Dr2BSoon]

Ok, so I talked to some classmates to try an figure out where they are coming from. The general consensus was this: There are so many American students who are yearning, fighting, and praying to earn a seat in dental schools every year. American schools should serve the American students first! Thus a lot of us are just under the belief that until every qualified American who wants a seat in dental school has one, the dental schools should not offer seats to foreign students. The citizens should be taken care of first. America seems to think that they need to serve the needs of the world while other countries serve themselves first. I agree that we are learning some things from the foreign trained dentists. Now that they are here, we realize that they are good people, but it was a hard adjustment at first.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

😎 Let's remember we are talking about the whole world. Dental schools in Guatemala (nothing against them, just giving an example) may not be the same as the ones in Sweden, and so on. Generalization and ignorance are the issues.

very true. Not all international dental schools are the same. 👍

 

[Vejaeju]

I am an American citizen. I have been here working hard for almost 10 years, trying to juggle work and study. I pay taxes the same way you do, if you pay them, since you probably don't work. After working so hard, I finally got the chance to take the NBDE and the TOEFL (right now I hope you know that your classmates should speak some English)...It took me almost 10 years! I did not have my parents here to pay for anything for me, and I have 2 kids and a husband, which right now still needs my financial support. I have been dreaming to go back to my profession (yes, to me Dentistry is a passion and not a way of getting rich) since day one here.
Why do you think you are better than me? Why do you think American Dental schools are putting you guys behind the FTD? Did you know that we have to pay twice as much than you guys to go to Dental School here? Do you think that after my dental degree, a certificate in Pediatric Dentistry and a Masters in Pediatric Dentistry I shoul start from the beginning?
In a decade or so there will be a shortage of dentists in the US. There is a place under the sun for all of us. You don't need to be jealous. I hope this is just a temporary thing bothering you. I know you will get more mature, specially when you get the chance to travel and mingle with different people.
Peace on Earth!

 

[Vejaeju]

And don't forget that the USA is a capitalist nation. So, if your dental school is trying to make more money...Hummm, let's get FTDs! They pay twice as much!
Maybe if you guys decide to pay the same amount we pay, they will stop offering seats to FTDs.
The schools are not charitable organizations, my dear. Do you think they are trying to be nice to the foreigners? 🙂

 

[docsmiley]

Ok, so I talked to some classmates to try an figure out where they are coming from. The general consensus was this: There are so many American students who are yearning, fighting, and praying to earn a seat in dental schools every year. American schools should serve the American students first! Thus a lot of us are just under the belief that until every qualified American who wants a seat in dental school has one, the dental schools should not offer seats to foreign students. The citizens should be taken care of first. America seems to think that they need to serve the needs of the world while other countries serve themselves first. I agree that we are learning some things from the foreign trained dentists. Now that they are here, we realize that they are good people, but it was a hard adjustment at first.

hi..
there is no competition between american grads and ftds..the seat quota is totally different...the american grads seats are counted from d1..while the ftds are placed as extra students in d3 or d2..there is no competition...and our fees are wayyy higher than the local grads..this is the concept of education becoming business which this country has in every school..not just dental..even engineers, it, technology etc etc...
and let me tellyou that america does not serve the needs of immigrant students..get your concepts right...the immigrant students in every field are paying huige amount of money in fees for their education...which are higher than local graduates....i have a friend in indiana dental school who just pays 100,000 for her 4 years..but i vl end up payin g twice the amount..and to convert all the money in our country's local currency is nota joke..so this country runs the business of education by issuing student visas...anyways you are not competing with any of the foreign grads...atleast not at graduation level..and even during residency, of course you guys are given first preference in the fields like ortho, surgery etc..and seats in dental school are determined by the needs of the population.and dentist : population ratio...not by how many american citizens want to becme dentists...
.and dentists will be in demand always at leat till we retire..so dnt worry too much...
so do not worry...and focus on your school...

 

[gatorfan99]

Yesterday the class of 2011 at UDM found out that our class size will be increased by 11 starting May 19th (the first day of DS2 year)! 🙁 The new 11 students are foreign trained dentists. Is this a good thing or a bad thing, because our class in general is very unhappy about this.

We had 75 😱of them at Boston University, almost HALF of the class! They aren't that bad, but its just a BLUNT reminder that B.U. is all about the MONEY and they will squeeze in as many students as they can