Foreign Trained Dentist-READ THIS-Important Info on deadline ext. CAL bench Exam

[dentoGirl]

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Don't really know if the changes are for the better or to make things worse...Eliminating lab work and replacing it with Composite restorations is good though...I believe it makes things easier considering the fact that grading would also be easier.(Correct me if I am wrong)..Inspite of the unnecessary efforts,time and 1000's of money spent on the course works and practice after all there's nothing worth us passing the exam....
But the remaining changes really seem to be questionable 🙄 I really wish things are happening for the better....
Anyone with any information or comments please add on to this....

 

[pkowe]

Are they changing the type of typodont too? Because earlier it was columbia 862 model with plastic teeth onit. Now its in the regulation that it should be SMR 860 with ivorine teeth. Now we need to take classes for bridge prep & composite. I already took duggan course last year.

 

[pkowe]

The typodont is same I think. Sorry for confussion.

 

[ivorinedust]

Hello, Colleagues:

At first glance, the changes proposed by the Board are really scary. But taking a closer look, some of the changes MIGHT be to our advantage. Other people may see me wrong but here are my two cents' worth:

1. Using natural teeth will allow more deviation in the preps' reduction. Natural teeth do not have the same exact size and shape as ivorine teeth, and consequently, the candidates' preps will be individually different. Therefore, there would be not one ideal prep where any deviation of more than 0.2mm would mean failure.

"IF" the Board allows carious natural teeth to be used, then of course, we will also use our clinical judgement in preparing them. I don't know but, placing bases or building up walls might be allowed. This is wishful thinking, but it would be stupid for the Board to look for uniform, ideal preps in individual natural teeth, moreso in carious ones.

2. Scrapping the lab portion means doing away with a lot of things that could go wrong in this part of the exam. Things such as models accidentally breaking(this happens very often in the exam, where everyone is in panic in the last minutes, and then someone knocks your tray off your table), wax patterns that disintegrate when withdrawn, burnt hair, eyelashes, clothes etc(from the torch), funny looking cast mountings on the articulator...the list is endless. There are more steps in the lab than in the proposed composite prep/restoration!

3. Class III and IV composite are the easiest preps to do(unless they would require a dovetail for the Cl IV, which is unnecessary). I can't say the same thing with Cl II so this would require practice.

With the restoration however, I never tried etching and bonding melamine(the plastic material used to make ivorine teeth), and I doubt if it will work. So the Board might call on the use of natural teeth on this part of the exam. Or, if ivorine teeth were to be used, etching and bonding and "pulp protection" would be silly, so these steps would be skipped altogether, making things simpler.

4. For the fixed bridge preparations, parallelism of the walls of the abutments could be the prime criterion. This means that candidates can modify their preps to achieve this. Tell me how you can ideally mount natural extracted teeth on the Dentoform without twisting or tilting them. The parallelism would be screwed up in the first place even before the diamond touches the first tooth to be prepared. Therefore, we do away with the dreaded ideal prep measurements and go by what is clinically logical! Again, this is wishful thinking.

Generally, I think the criteria for the preps will be changed and will allow for more liniency if natural teeth were used. But come to think of it, I was under the impression that the California Board Exams should reflect the current trends and techniques as thought in California Dental Schools. Do these schools require students to use natural teeth to practice on now?

The bad side I think is that we need to use water spray for natural teeth as grinding them generates more heat. Another is the use of rubber bands to simulate closing of the jaws...Hmmm. Next, they'd be doing away with "direct vision" too and would make us use mouth mirrors. 😱

Of course the Board might have other things in mind as they discuss about these proposed changes, and they might device more plans to make life more difficult for us. I pray not. Join me.

Ivorinedust

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Apolonia, relieve my toothache!!!

 

[Chuchuca]

Hi all,

I agree with dentoGirl and Ivorinedust and please correct us if we are wrong. I do not see why to stress out if changes happen. I do not know about your schools but in mine (Brazil) we use natural teeth in typodonts. In my opinion make more sense using natural teeth.
I always thought that wax pattern for the test is something ridiculous because in real life dentists don't do that.

Anyway, relax and just let it be.

About Duggan, I called them, because I signed in for the review classes this summer, so I have been told that Dr. Duggan will attend the meeting and will do the necessary changes if needed.

Good luck 🙂

 

[eshtadental]

i see several bad problems with the changes in the bench test..
1: finding natural teeth is so difficult here, people preparing for some other tests looking for natural teeth have a hard time getting natural teeth, let alone the risk of taking a test on a brittle natural tooth. in my country i used to be tested on natural teeth but never was i faced with such tough grading like the bench. THAT brings us to the second point.

2: some1 noted that the grading would be more comfortable because natural teeth have variations & they would allow us for some margin of deviation, however, in the Clinical exam in california where we r tested on patients; the grading is as horrible as 0.2 mm deviation errors. u think the examiners would suddenly love us & be more leanient in the bench grading?! i dont think so. who knows how they would grade us anyway?! lets ask for some exerience in that matter. That brings us to the 3rd point.

3: how would we know what the examiners are looking for when grading a CL III prep for example?!. in a natural tooth the caries is our aim & point of entry, but in the bench test: who would guide us & tell us how the perfect prep should be like?! the examiners?! i dont think so! these examiners have NEVER talked in public about the measurements they look for for. they r keeping this a top secret or something. the measurements we train on are just what our predecessors have passed by making..

freinds....this is a big issue & this week is the only week that we can stop this some how ...on May 14th they will vote on that..
what do u all think!

keep in mind that very few people know about this change & the board suddenly put this idea into action without notice.

 

[sumitysharma]

iam agree with estha dental,it is not as easy as it looks .b/c it is quite obvious that board does not want us to pass the exam ie why they are planning to change the assignments.it would be very hard to get the natural teth b/c patients as well as dentist overhere doesnot prefer extraction even the tooth has three grade mobility unlike my country where people can not afford the time and money to save the tooth.and i dont think that board wiil allow us to prepare on carious teeth b/c this they would ask in part 4.as for as about the lab part i know that is a time taking part but if u remember,duggans always says it is easy to score in lab part.and i think baord also know about it thats why they are planning to remove this part.

 

[sumitysharma]

guys i think what we can do is those who are living in bay area shd attend this hearing at burlingame california which i hope is somewhere near sanfrancisco and we can present our statements or arguments orally or in writting relevant to the action proposed at the hearing.the hearing will be held on friday 14 may,2004. at Embassy suites hotel,anza boulevard , burlingame california 94010.telephone no. is 650-352-4600.
can any body tell me where is scott!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.we need ur help scott!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chuchuca]

Anyone from Bay Area will attend the meeting tomorrow?

 

[Chuchuca]

Any news on the meeting?

 

[Nash so]

I heared that the next exam in november will follow the old rules and requirments as of the one after that it will be the new format. 👎

 

[gsmm]

Did The Board Post Anything Yet..i Dont Know When Are We Going To Know Who Will Sit For The Next Exam...its Kind Of Irritating The Way They Handle This Exam..i Lost My Interest To Ask About When And When And When..they Should Post The Squedule At Least ..
In Addition Is The Natural Teeth Issue Still In Effect Or They Canceled The Idea?

 

[mommyr]

DBC just posted the schedule for the next bench exam, Nov. 19-21, filing period is to be determined!

 

[oletyrags]

to the Moderator
it would help if this thread is stickied

 

[cali_dds]

Does anyone have any new info about the bench? I am tired of waiting for whats going to happen. Do keep all of us here posted regarding any changes.


Hope for the best.

 

[sonia vashist]

hey guys,
this is really important.A friend of mine sent in his original score card(part1 and 2) to dbc. and dbc has sent it back to him. he was a first timer and dbc did not have any previous record of his.. now i find this confusing because i too sent my score card to dbc at the same time and my situation is the same as his,as in i too was sending dbc my info for the first time.. so i wanted to know if their is anyone else who has sent their score cards to dbc and already got them back? please help!!! and the other info that i have is that this nov exam priority will be given to old applicants and hence forth it will be 50% of old applicants and 50% new applicants. if anyone else has any other info please let us know.

 

[explorer2010]

I recently read that SB 1865 is approved.

It allows one to take WREB instead of California clinical exam, to be licensed in CA.

Just curious how this bill might affect foreign trained dentists . It states board will accept application for WREB only from 'an applicant who has not yet graduated from reputable dental school '.

Does this bill trying to impose two different clinical exams, one for American dental students and the other for around 3000 international dentists willing to get CA license ?

This bill(SB1865) will give DBC a legal authority to outsource conducting dental license exams to outside agency like WREB(western regional examining board). Right now there are close to 12 states who accepts WREB license exam and do not have their own state dental license exam.

CA have it's own state license exam. State law requires all dental universities to open up their facilities for conducting state dental license exam. So the Deans of all the five CA dental universities got together and proposed an alternative to state license exam.

Once the Bill is passed, dental students will have an option to either take state license exam or WREB exam.

Foreign trained dentist do not want WREB because WREB does not recognize "Foreign Trained Dentists". This will force foreign trained dentists to take CA state license exam where there is a possibility of gross partiality in evaluation like the once happens for RT exam. (passing rate of RT exam is just 30%. Foreign trained dentists do no have any voice against the unfair evaluation being done at the RT exam.) There is a chance that same thing might happen for the state license exam as well, since the only applicants for state license exams will be Foreign Trained Dentists.

(All this information was given at the meeting held at Downey last week. Those who were present at the meeting have greater idea of what's happening with the future of foreign trained dentists.)

Sanjiv

 

[gsmm]

and if a foreign dentist passed the wreb through another state, it would be absolulety unfair to prevent him from reciprocal licensing.i know foreign dentists who failed the bench and passed the wreb!!

 

[explorer2010]

Reciprocity- CA don't have it in first place,so that can be understandable. Introducing WREB now, and not allowing foreign trained dentist to take it, is totally unfair. Particularly when WREB is a standardized exam and accepted in more than 20 states.
They are changing the rules in middle of a game !!

and if a foreign dentist passed the wreb through another state, it would be absolulety unfair to prevent him from reciprocal licensing.i know foreign dentists who failed the bench and passed the wreb!!

 

[explorer2010]

1. DBC still consider dentists, not trained in accrediated programs, competent enough to take clinical exam, get license, and practice dentistry, once they pass the Restostorative Technique exam .

2. It doesn't look like DBC is considering possible 'flood' of dentists as a threat. Introducing WREB, will increase the number of eligible dentists for licensure in CA. As there are too many students taking WREB, regardless of CA accepting it.

How is it fair not allowing foreign trained dentist to take same clinical exam which other applicants can take ?

With this rationale there should be different NBDE part I and II then, for dentists who are not graduated from ADA accrediated programs. 👎

???

why unfair?

california is already overly saturated with dentists...
...california will become even MORE saturated with all the new grads taking the WREBs and then moving to cali.

i'm curious to see the arguement for granting licensure to dentists that were not trained at an accredited program....when the "dental shortage area" crowd gets muted by the flood of dentists entering cali in the very near future.

 

[explorer2010]

..but i have interest in keeping my profession the best profession in the world.

So do I, and, when I say 'world', I mean it.

ADA accrediates dental schools in USA and Canada only. There is a possibility of good dentists graduated from schools, which ADA doesn't accrediate. Most of the state dental boards and schools recognizes this fact, and, thats why there are legal ways available for qualified and willing individuals to join mainstream dentistry, through specialty programs, licensure by credentials, faculty licenses, and, RT exam in case of CA.

Training from ADA accrediated schools doesn't give one ultimate right to practice dentistry, everybody has to go through state board licensing exam and not everybody trained in the accrediated program pass this exam ( though I personally feel one can get very good training in ADA accrediated school).

There is no evidence that dentists who are licensed after passing RT exam in CA, are practicing second rate dentistry, or are harm to public health or their trust in profession.

Restricting Florida license by difficult licensure exam, and strict licensing rules (eg. no reciprocity or licensure by credentials) probably help local dental profesionals, I strongly doubt if that helps profession or public.

Individuals, and, associations can have their own interests, and I can understand their attmpts to protect those interests. Glorifying those self-centered interests by the name of profession or public's interests is too trivial.

You need to come-up with better tricks.

then maybe we should take another look at this DBC thing..


nothing personal..but i have interest in keeping my profession the best profession in the world.
and my profession has an interest in protecting the public and keeping public trust...in this profession...high.

being a profession allows us to restrict our membership.
the concept of "fair" does not apply.
and "fairness" is a poor arguement.

in my world,
"fair"...
would be for ALL dentists seeking licensure in the USA to be graduates of an accredited dental school..

 

[gsmm]

if foreign trained dentists were not accredited, how come they pass national boards with 90% and above..i think this is only a kind of jealousy from american graduates, since we dont pay what they pay to get our license.

 

[kriss]

hi 🙂

I heard tht california bench exam is only for those who have finished both part1 nd2 before 2003....is that true...or is there any chance that anyone can take this exam irrespective of their examination dates....because I would like to give a try...but I finished my part1 in this august only...so pls tell me if any1 has more info regarding this...thank u...
kriss

 

[Vickdent]

Kriis, you can check this out and have all your doubts clear...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=53

 

[kriss]

hi vickdent....

I went through the whole thread but couldnt find any info which I wanted...pls tell me if u know anything regarding the eligibility for bench exam...thank u
kriss

 

[ivshah]

hi vickdent....

I went through the whole thread but couldnt find any info which I wanted...pls tell me if u know anything regarding the eligibility for bench exam...thank u
kriss

hi! check this site out. you will get all info.

http://www.dbc.ca.gov/pdf/rt_faq_revised.pdf

 

[shelly78]

Kriss,
To cut a long story short you are eligible for the Bench if you have taken Part 1and 2 before 31st Dec 2003 and submitted the score report to the Dental Board of California by July 12th 2004.

 

[kriss]

Hi,

Thank u Ivshah nd Shelly for the info...I wish they change the deadline....Let's hope fr the best.... 👍

 

[explorer2010]

luckily accreditation involves more than didatic training.

...and i said nothing about non-us/canadian schools offering a sub-par education.
there are good programs out there...and terrible ones.

now the american public can trust and expect that their dentist will deliver high quality dental care.
i have trouble seeing how that is a bad thing.

having an "open" door is not only bad for the profession of dentistry...it is bad for our patients.

Out of Context.
Nobody is asking for an "open" door.

 

[SJ35]

luckily accreditation involves more than didatic training.

...and i said nothing about non-us/canadian schools offering a sub-par education.
there are good programs out there...and terrible ones.

now the american public can trust and expect that their dentist will deliver high quality dental care.
i have trouble seeing how that is a bad thing.

having an "open" door is not only bad for the profession of dentistry...it is bad for our patients.

I have seen american dentists' work that was really terrible. And believe me, dentists all over the world try to deliver high quality work. So you can't tell that if the person is foreign-educated he is does a bad job. His/her work might be way better than somebody's who graduated from US achool. And by the way, dentistry is something that you need to practice, just theory doesn't mean anything.

 

[denzel]

hi,
I want to get into one of the five international DDS programs and I am not sure how tough is it. since they extended the RT exams , do u think it will be easier to get in one of these schools, otherwise i will try NYU, please let me know as I am thinking of moving from east coast to CA , to try to get in one of the schools

 

[gpsbhattal]

hi, after my experience i can say that getting into CA univs . is not easy. 5 univs together have lesser no. of seats than NYU. u can better understand now.....
All the best. 🙂

hi,
I want to get into one of the five international DDS programs and I am not sure how tough is it. since they extended the RT exams , do u think it will be easier to get in one of these schools, otherwise i will try NYU, please let me know as I am thinking of moving from east coast to CA , to try to get in one of the schools

 

[denzel]

but doesnt the extension of the RT exam filter lots of CA residents, also how about the practical exam, I am confident that I can get a decent part 1 score, but I am totally discouraged by the practical exams, do I have to join the duggal program?

 

[karachi]

dear dental husband
i dont see the dates when you postd all this information .
please reply what is latest about the bill after it has been passed from one committee . what changes did committee make before passing it.

i appreciate your effort .

I don't really know the answer to that one. I would think they have the test setup that way on purpose. I also think they are unlikely to change the process.