Foreign-trained OMFS's in the US

[EuroOMFS]

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I'm currently training in OMFS in a Scandinavian country and will be certified in 2008. Unlike many European countries, Scandinavian countries do not require OMFS's to be double-qualified, so I'm "only" a dentist.

Does anyone here know of any European-trained, single-qualified, OMFS´s who work in the US? Did they have to do any additional training before starting in their jobs?

I'm assuming that not having a DDS/DMD degree from an accredidet US dental school complicates things.

 

[toofache32]

Regardless of specialty, you have to have a dental degree from a US-accredited dental school (and maybe Canadian) to get a dental license. I had a classmate in dental school who already did dental school in Australia and did a Pros residency in the USA. Then she was my classmate for the 3rd and 4th years of dental school to get a DDS here.

 

[NileBDS]

Regardless of specialty, you have to have a dental degree from a US-accredited dental school (and maybe Canadian) to get a dental license. I had a classmate in dental school who already did dental school in Australia and did a Pros residency in the USA. Then she was my classmate for the 3rd and 4th years of dental school to get a DDS here.

Not exactly.
Several state boards only require foreign grads to complete a recognized speciality training program (in an ADA accredited program) prior to licensure. However your practise will be limited to a handful of states.
http://www.ada.org/prof/prac/licensure/us_a.pdf

Some foreign grads (as myself) will OPT to obtain a DDS/DMD prior to licensure for several other reasons.

 

[NileBDS]

I'm currently training in OMFS in a Scandinavian country and will be certified in 2008. Unlike many European countries, Scandinavian countries do not require OMFS's to be double-qualified, so I'm "only" a dentist.

Does anyone here know of any European-trained, single-qualified, OMFS´s who work in the US? Did they have to do any additional training before starting in their jobs?

I'm assuming that not having a DDS/DMD degree from an accredidet US dental school complicates things.

Not all US OMFS's are double qualified. Only those who complete 6 yr programs (leading to an MD degree) are considered double qualified.
All I can say is that you have a much better shot at matching into OMFS than regular foreign grads (since you already have your OMFS training).
I do not personally know of any "european" foreign trained OMFS's who have matched here in the US, but I know of several asian and middle-eastern ones who have.
It's not easy.
Mainly what you would need to focus on would be;
1. Your class rank (overseas)
2. Your experience and training (overseas)
3. Your national board scores (US)
4. Good connections with program directors/current residents (US)
Good Luck.

 

[AhhPuller]

Not exactly.
Several state boards only require foreign grads to complete a recognized speciality training program (in an ADA accredited program) prior to licensure. However your practise will be limited to a handful of states.
http://www.ada.org/prof/prac/licensure/us_a.pdf

Some foreign grads (as myself) will OPT to obtain a DDS/DMD prior to licensure for several other reasons.

That's nuts. So you could have a BDS (in as little as 4 years of post-HS or equivalent education) and practice as a dentist in the US. Well, I guess MD's do it so why not. Then you could avoid the enormous debt from attending an American school. I wonder if there are many of those??

 

[OzDDS]

That's nuts. So you could have a BDS (in as little as 4 years of post-HS or equivalent education) and practice as a dentist in the US. Well, I guess MD's do it so why not. Then you could avoid the enormous debt from attending an American school. I wonder if there are many of those??

They have those in the US too btw:

5 year DDS program at UOP

2 + 3

A five-year program leading to the DDS degree was initiated in 1984 to provide predental education in two academic years for qualified students. Students admitted to the program take a prescribed list of general education and science courses as undergraduates in the College of the Pacific . After two years of study, they are eligible to apply for admission to the School of Dentistry. All students registered in the program are monitored closely and are counseled by predental faculty on the Stockton campus as well as by dental faculty from the San Francisco campus.

http://dental.pacific.edu/admissions1/DDS/for_high_school_student.htm

There are also quite a few 6-year med programs in the US for kids out of high school too! This does not only happen overseas.

BDS = DDS
MBBS = MD

They are both undergraduate first professional degrees. 👍


btw: most BDS programs are 5 years and most mbbs programs are 6 years.

There are also many 4-year (grad entry) BDS and MBBS programs in the UK and Australia that require a previous degree before you can be admitted

 

[OzDDS]

I'm assuming that not having a DDS/DMD degree from an accredidet US dental school complicates things.

It does complicate things.. but to answer your question. As long as you pass National dental boards part I, II, and III. and complete at minimum a 2 year dental residency training program in the US or Canada.. then you can work in the US. (unless you also have a medical degree (not a requirement for OMS in the US) in which, in "a few states" you can practice OMFS by using your US medical license). Not sure which states these are though.

In YOUR case.. you would have to take National Board exams Part I, II, and III. and re-do your specialty training in the US, which would entail 4 more years of OMFS residency.

Unless of course you don't mind being a faculty member and just teaching. But you wouldn't be able to get a general licences to practice outside of the dental school.

👍

 

[EuroOMFS]

It does complicate things.. but to answer your question. As long as you pass National dental boards part I, II, and III. and complete at minimum a 2 year dental residency training program in the US or Canada.. then you can work in the US. (unless you also have a medical degree (not a requirement for OMS in the US) in which, in "a few states" you can practice OMFS by using your US medical license). Not sure which states these are though.

In YOUR case.. you would have to take National Board exams Part I, II, and III. and re-do your specialty training in the US, which would entail 4 more years of OMFS residency.

Unless of course you don't mind being a faculty member and just teaching. But you wouldn't be able to get a general licences to practice outside of the dental school.

👍

So what you're saying, is that I would either

a) have to have a medical degree,

OR

b) do my OMFS recidency all over again 😱

to get to practice as an OMFS in the US outside of the dental school. Does that include hospital work?

I'm really not that much into private practice work, I like the hospital stuff better. Just like in the US, you earn substancially more in pp in Scandinavia then in a hospital, but I didn't get into OMFS entirly for the money 🙂

 

[OzDDS]

So what you're saying, is that I would either

a) have to have a medical degree,

OR

b) do my OMFS recidency all over again 😱

to get to practice as an OMFS in the US outside of the dental school. Does that include hospital work?

I'm really not that much into private practice work, I like the hospital stuff better. Just like in the US, you earn substancially more in pp in Scandinavia then in a hospital, but I didn't get into OMFS entirly for the money 🙂

Sorry.. for the confusion. Even if you had a medical degree, you would still need to have a few years training in the US in either a medical specialty or re-doing your OMFS residency.

Having the medical degree too would only allow you to practice in those states that don't allow (dentists who have foreign dental degrees and have done specialty training in the US).

You would still have to redo your OMS residency.

Yes, you could do "hospital work" without doing anything extra, but you would be working at a "Dental school hospital" and would be working under a faculty license. You would only make faculty salary (your not allowed to have private patients). I'm sure your better off staying in Scandinavia money wise. sorry.

 

[north2southOMFS]

It does complicate things.. but to answer your question. As long as you pass National dental boards part I, II, and III.
👍

Wow, that part III dental board exam. Must have missed it along the way, at least they still gave me a liscence though.


Oh, and there are like 2 [minnesota and the peoples republic of california(not really part of the US)] that will liscence a foreign dental grad. If i were you i would just suck it up and redo the 2 years of dental school here is the US and then you can jump on the gravy train without a problem.

 

[AhhPuller]

They have those in the US too btw:

5 year DDS program at UOP

2 + 3

A five-year program leading to the DDS degree was initiated in 1984 to provide predental education in two academic years for qualified students. Students admitted to the program take a prescribed list of general education and science courses as undergraduates in the College of the Pacific . After two years of study, they are eligible to apply for admission to the School of Dentistry. All students registered in the program are monitored closely and are counseled by predental faculty on the Stockton campus as well as by dental faculty from the San Francisco campus.

http://dental.pacific.edu/admissions1/DDS/for_high_school_student.htm

There are also quite a few 6-year med programs in the US for kids out of high school too! This does not only happen overseas.

BDS = DDS
MBBS = MD

They are both undergraduate first professional degrees. 👍


btw: most BDS programs are 5 years and most mbbs programs are 6 years.

There are also many 4-year (grad entry) BDS and MBBS programs in the UK and Australia that require a previous degree before you can be admitted

I think you took the exception to the rule in the US and are using it as the norm. There is the ONE 5 year program and a few 7 year programs (I coulnd't find any 6), but they are only awarded to a few students each year. In these other countries, the 4 year degree is the norm. There is a huge difference there. Plus, UOP is unique in that they take the 4 years and crunch it into 3 years by basically going non-stop.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Wow, that part III dental board exam. Must have missed it along the way, at least they still gave me a liscence though.

Yeah, for a liscence you don't have to take it, but for a license you do.

 

[NileBDS]

I think you took the exception to the rule in the US and are using it as the norm. There is the ONE 5 year program and a few 7 year programs (I coulnd't find any 6), but they are only awarded to a few students each year. In these other countries, the 4 year degree is the norm. There is a huge difference there. Plus, UOP is unique in that they take the 4 years and crunch it into 3 years by basically going non-stop.

I agree with you that the exception should not be taken as a rule.
However, my BDS was 6 years (5+1) in length and an MBBS (MD equivalent) would take 7 years (6+1) in order to complete.
I personally have not heard of any 4 year, out of high school, BDS programs or MBBS's for that matter.
Where I got my BDS (Egypt), that is how it is done, and quite frankly, no exceptions. That would be the norm to compare against.

Now some other countries grant their graduates a "Diploma of Oral Stomatology" degree. That is who I would be concerned about licensing as opposed to BDS/MBBS's.

 

[toofache32]

Yeah, for a liscence you don't have to take it, but for a license you do.

 

[toofache32]

Hey, how come the picture doesn't show up in the window?

 

[NileBDS]

....................
Oh, and there are like 2 [minnesota and the peoples republic of california(not really part of the US)] that will liscence a foreign dental grad. If i were you i would just suck it up and redo the 2 years of dental school here is the US and then you can jump on the gravy train without a problem.

.
. Actually, California and Minnesota are the only 2 states with the "authority" to license foreign grads WITHOUT further training.
Several other states do in fact license foreign grads with foreign degrees upon completion of further training (specialty/MS/GPR/AEGD) as long as the program is accredited/recognized by the ADA.

Previously (as recent as 2003) in California, you would have been required to complete the Part I and II of the NBD exams followed by 2 clinical/bench exams, after which you would be eligible to apply for licensure (only in California).

Although this practice has been discontinued in California, Minnesota will still license foreign grads with no further training "if the board determines that the training is equivalent to or higher than that provided by a dental college approved by the Commission on Dental Accreditation of the American Dental Association or a successor organization", which usually is the case.

In Minnesota you would be required to submit the results of the WERB or similar regional licensing exams instead of going through separate clinical exams of “The Peoples Republic of California”.
http://www.dentalboard.state.mn.us/LicensingRegistration/InternationallyEducatedDentists/tabid/130/Default.aspx

 

[umkcdds]

They have those in the US too btw:

5 year DDS program at UOP

2 + 3

A five-year program leading to the DDS degree was initiated in 1984 to provide predental education in two academic years for qualified students. Students admitted to the program take a prescribed list of general education and science courses as undergraduates in the College of the Pacific . After two years of study, they are eligible to apply for admission to the School of Dentistry. All students registered in the program are monitored closely and are counseled by predental faculty on the Stockton campus as well as by dental faculty from the San Francisco campus.

http://dental.pacific.edu/admissions1/DDS/for_high_school_student.htm

There are also quite a few 6-year med programs in the US for kids out of high school too! This does not only happen overseas.

BDS = DDS
MBBS = MD

They are both undergraduate first professional degrees. 👍


btw: most BDS programs are 5 years and most mbbs programs are 6 years.

There are also many 4-year (grad entry) BDS and MBBS programs in the UK and Australia that require a previous degree before you can be admitted

you are lost here.

a BDS is a dental school degree from somewhere in europe (and some other countries).

umkc just quit offering a 6-year BS/DDS program. you went to school for six years, right out of high school, and when you graduated, you had a BS in Biology and a DDS.

a dentist with a BDS, depending on the state, either has to complete a full 4 years of dental school, or pass the NDBE's, then the regional exams. a BDS that is a specialist, can often obtain their DDS (to practice in the US) by teaching for a specified amount of time. we have dentists that fall into both categories that i listed. some are taking the board exams, and a few specialists, that are teaching, just so they can get their DDS to practice in the US.

 

[OzDDS]

1. you are lost here.

2. a BDS is a dental school degree from somewhere in europe (and some other countries).

3. umkc just quit offering a 6-year BS/DDS program. you went to school for six years, right out of high school, and when you graduated, you had a BS in Biology and a DDS.

4. a dentist with a BDS, depending on the state, either has to complete a full 4 years of dental school, or pass the NDBE's, then the regional exams. a BDS that is a specialist, can often obtain their DDS (to practice in the US) by teaching for a specified amount of time. we have dentists that fall into both categories that i listed. some are taking the board exams, and a few specialists, that are teaching, just so they can get their DDS to practice in the US.

1. ?? how am I lost - I don’t see how you’re disagreeing with anything I’ve posted.

2. Yes, that is correct.. UK, Australia, South Africa, India, Malaysia, Singapore, (ie. British commonwealth.. since BDS and MBBS are the degrees from the British system of education.) a BDS is just a diff name of a dental degree. Dental school is dental school. They are all dentists. DMD, BDS, DDS just depends on what school you went to. Like for medicine.. MD, MB, MBchB, MBBS.


3. Yeah, I think I heard of that one. True.

4. Correction.. (can be up to 4 years) but doing 4 more years is not a universal requirement. Actually if you will refer to what Niles stated..

“Actually, California and Minnesota are the only 2 states with the "authority" to license foreign grads WITHOUT further training.
Several other states do in fact license foreign grads with foreign degrees upon completion of further training (specialty/MS/GPR/AEGD) as long as the program is accredited/recognized by the ADA.

Previously (as recent as 2003) in California, you would have been required to complete the Part I and II of the NBD exams followed by 2 clinical/bench exams, after which you would be eligible to apply for licensure (only in California).

Although this practice has been discontinued in California, Minnesota will still license foreign grads with no further training "if the board determines that the training is equivalent to or higher than that provided by a dental college approved by the Commission on Dental Accreditation of the American Dental Association or a successor organization", which usually is the case.

In Minnesota you would be required to submit the results of the WERB or similar regional licensing exams instead of going through separate clinical exams of “The Peoples Republic of California”.
http://www.dentalboard.state.mn.us/...30/Default.aspx “.

But regarding the aquiring a US dental degree by being a faculty member for a while is correct.

It would be the same situation if you graduated from a US school with a DDS and then wanted to practice in the UK or Australia. You would have to sit an exam and then probably do up to 2 more years of school.

Australian program for foreign dentists

 

[NileBDS]

Again, this information is only pertinent to UMKC.
Please read the rest of the posts on this thread.
This is by far an exception and should not be generalized as the rule. I thought you were referring to UMKC, until you said "depending on the state".

http://ada.org/prof/prac/licensure/us_a.pdf

Over all, UMKC is quite aloof when it comes to foreign grads (requiring completion of a full-fledged DDS and/or teaching), and should be not viewed as the "norm" when it comes to foreign trained dentists licensure.

you are lost here.

a BDS is a dental school degree from somewhere in europe (and some other countries).

umkc just quit offering a 6-year BS/DDS program. you went to school for six years, right out of high school, and when you graduated, you had a BS in Biology and a DDS.

a dentist with a BDS, depending on the state, either has to complete a full 4 years of dental school, or pass the NDBE's, then the regional exams. a BDS that is a specialist, can often obtain their DDS (to practice in the US) by teaching for a specified amount of time. we have dentists that fall into both categories that i listed. some are taking the board exams, and a few specialists, that are teaching, just so they can get their DDS to practice in the US.

 

[CallMeAl]

I was wondering how a foreign trained OMFS from India can obtain a teaching position in the US?

 

[NileBDS]

I was wondering how a foreign trained OMFS from India can obtain a teaching position in the US?

I would start by contacting the schools which you are interested in teaching at first. Teaching position regulations are pretty much in the schools hands, and differ from one to the other.
http://www.ada.org/prof/prac/licensure/us_d.pdf
In general, you would be required to apply for a "teaching permit" which would allow you to perform limited procedures on campus/at the school clinics only.
You would also be required to complete the NBDE part I and II exams, TOEFL and in some cases, GRE.
Please be aware that this will not allow you in any way to attain dental licensure for private practice purposes. It is strictly limited to teaching facilities and faculty settings.
Refer to page 13 of this document for more info;
http://www.ada.org/prof/prac/licensure/us.pdf
Good Luck.

 

[kas1992]

i have read all the posts but it still doesnt answer all questions . i am doing bds in pakistan then i want to do omfs post graduation in america. if i give nbde 1 and 2 do i become dds? or then i need to take 2 yrs of dds . after that do i need to mbbs after that and then training of omfs?

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

i have read all the posts but it still doesnt answer all questions . i am doing bds in pakistan then i want to do omfs post graduation in america. if i give nbde 1 and 2 do i become dds? or then i need to take 2 yrs of dds . after that do i need to mbbs after that and then training of omfs?

If you want to apply for oral surgery residency in the US, most (all?) programs require you to have a DDS or DMD. So after graduating with a BDS from Pakistan, you would have to apply for advanced standing (2-3 years of dental school), to get your DDS/DMD. During this time, you will complete nbde 1 and 2. If you want to apply for oral surgery, you have to complete an additional exam (NBME CBSE), which is administered twice a year (August and Feb).

Then you can apply to oral surgery residency. Be aware that there are very few programs that accept international applicants, as they want to reserve the spots for American citizens and permanent residents. I know Maryland is a program that takes international students. There are 4 year non-MD programs, and 6-year MD programs. Depending if you want the MD or not, you can choose which to pursue.

Search the list of oral surgery programs using this website:

http://programpages.passweb.org/search

This will give you a general idea of what is required for each program. The most accurate information though, is calling up the program.