Forensic psychiatry fellowship 2024-2025 Application Cycle

[randomforensic]

CAP does one, why shouldn't we? Anyone else applying?

From the ADFPF guidelines:

• May 1, 2024: First day that programs can review applications and/or contact applicants
  to schedule interviews.
• August 1, 2024: First day that programs can conduct interviews.
• September 16, 2024: First day that programs can offer positions to candidates.

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[reca]

So if you’re interviewing in August, you’re talking only to fellows who’ve been in the program a few weeks? Do they have the fellows who graduated the previous year join at some point?

 

[heartsink]

Programs start reviewing in May? Do most residents apply during the end of PGY4 then?

 

[randomforensic]

So if you’re interviewing in August, you’re talking only to fellows who’ve been in the program a few weeks? Do they have the fellows who graduated the previous year join at some point?

I don't think we meet with fellows (current or past) during the scheduled interviews (virtual). I'm sure if the fellows aren't listed on the program's website, the PD should be able to provide that information for applicants.

 

[randomforensic]

Programs start reviewing in May? Do most residents apply during the end of PGY4 then?

End of PGY3 or CAP1.

 

[reca]

I don't think we meet with fellows (current or past) during the scheduled interviews (virtual). I'm sure if the fellows aren't listed on the program's website, the PD should be able to provide that information for applicants.

That would be very strange and a definite red flag if you’re not meeting with any fellows.

 

[futureforensicdoc]

Is there a good thread available that talks about the strengths of various programs?

 

[randomforensic]

Is there a good thread available that talks about the strengths of various programs?

Forensics is a small field so there are only a handful of regular posters on this forum and they really only know their own programs. However, there are a ton of threads in the past discussing what they recommend people look for in a fellowship program. Here is a great one to start with.

 

[futureforensicdoc]

Forensics is a small field so there are only a handful of regular posters on this forum and they really only know their own programs. However, there are a ton of threads in the past discussing what they recommend people look for in a fellowship program. Here is a great one to start with.

Thank you! That was helpful. I'm trying to compare Case vs UC Davis vs SUNY Upstate vs OHSU. So far, the main difference I see between Case and Davis are the lack of training in psychological testing instruments at Case. Not sure if this is something that would be hurtful in the future or if I could get trained later on them.

 

[splik]

Thank you! That was helpful. I'm trying to compare Case vs UC Davis vs SUNY Upstate vs OHSU. So far, the main difference I see between Case and Davis are the lack of training in psychological testing instruments at Case. Not sure if this is something that would be hurtful in the future or if I could get trained later on them.

I'm not sure how true this is today. Historically, most programs focused on clinical assessment of malingering and clinical risk assessment. Over time, there is more emphasis on assessment of malingering with symptom and performance validity measures and risk assessment with structured risk assessment instruments. That is probably what you are referring to re: "psychological testing". Today, knowledge of these instruments is required for the boards and ACGME accreditation. Of course, there is still a wide difference in how much you will use these things are different programs. That said, most forensic psychiatrists (even charles scott) will use psychologists to do psychological testing in important cases. You do need to be familiar with their use and abuse however.

You want to get the broadest training possible, but remember fellowship is only one yr. I've mentioned before, I didn't do any insanity evaluations in fellowships but have done multiple since. Similarly, I didn't get formal training in sex offender SRAIs during fellowship but did training in the Static 99R and ACUTE and STABLE later on. You want to make sure you get the basics which include experience with testimony, report preparation, learning from multiple different psychiatrists, understanding basic legal principles as apply to psychiatry, relevant case law, and an understanding of the principles of different forensic evaluations including criminal competency, criminal responsibility, risk assessment, malingering, civil competencies, psychiatric disability and personal injury writ large. You will not have the opportunity to do every kind of evaluation, but you want to still have exposure to them through learning about these cases and approach to different kinds of evaluation through supervision, case conferences, and didactics etc.

 

[Auvelity]

As a fairly recent applicant, I have some tips as well:

Forensics isn’t very competitive. If you want bigger forensic programs definitely takes more work on your CV showing that forensic interest. Additionally, attending AAPL gives you an opportunity to network and talk to both PDs and current fellows to get an idea.

I think a safe number of applications is 5-6.

Make sure your CV and application materials are flawless.

Majority of them won’t reach out to you until end of July even August.

The match process is a headache. Stay in touch with your number one and pretty much send them a strong statement on the “match day” so they don’t forget about you (I’m not joking)
Seems like they prefer extending an offer to an interested applicant that they know won’t leave them hanging.
Main issue is that if they extend an offer, they can’t pressure an answer (and if you decide to say no a couple of weeks later, they might go unfilled)

Thank you! That was helpful. I'm trying to compare Case vs UC Davis vs SUNY Upstate vs OHSU. So far, the main difference I see between Case and Davis are the lack of training in psychological testing instruments at Case. Not sure if this is something that would be hurtful in the future or if I could get trained later on them.

Those are all amazing programs with amazing mentors. I don’t think you could go wrong with any of these but, also remember certain places might offer more niche opportunities.

At the end of the day, a year won’t be enough to see and do everything. So, you want to make sure you have lasting mentorship and as broad experience as you can get.

Interview with them and see what they offer. I personally liked all of them during the interview process and might add Michigan, U of Colorado and Emory as great programs to check out.

 

[randomforensic]

Does anyone know when Rappeport fellows will be decided/announced?

 

[splik]

Does anyone know when Rappeport fellows will be decided/announced?

It will be after the committee meets. Usually winners will be notified by the end of May. Sometimes may be early june before announced.

 

[futureforensicdoc]

It will be after the committee meets. Usually winners will be notified by the end of May. Sometimes may be early june before announced.

Are winners the only ones notified (ie do people get notified regardless)?

 

[splik]

Are winners the only ones notified (ie do people get notified regardless)?

They'll probably notify the winners first but all applicants will be notified. If you don't win, you'll still be paired with a forensic mentor. It is quite competitive as far as psych resident awards go - there's about a 15% chance of getting it.

 

[futureforensicdoc]

I figured it's a long shot. Glad to know we still get a mentor!

 

[randomforensic]

Looks like a lot of movement now with programs. Have heard back from half the programs I applied to.

 

[futureforensicdoc]

Congratulations and best of luck! I only applied to 4, and heard from all but 1.

 

[rozhong]

Hi, just wanted to let everyone in this thread know about a new forensic psychiatry fellowship opportunity at the University of Texas Medical Branch. I am the program director, and we are accepting applications for a fellow starting 7/1/25. We think it will be a strong fellowship, with lots of opportunities to do forensic evaluations, engage in scholarship, and network with lawyers and courts. Also, we have a unique partnership with NASA Johnson Space Center, and there is a substantial aviation and aerospace component. A more detailed posting is below, and our website is UTMB Forensic Psychiatry Fellowship Program:

The University of Texas Medical Branch (Greater Galveston and Houston region) is excited to announce a new Fellowship in Forensic Psychiatry. We are currently seeking a fellow for the 2025-2026 (start date 7/1/25) academic year. This ACGME-accredited one-year fellowship is an exciting chance to gain subspecialty training in psychiatry and law. The position is open to candidates who will have completed general psychiatry residency by the start of fellowship. The fellowship will be a comprehensive training program that incorporates academic, correctional, community, administrative, and governmental settings. UTMB offers a diverse range of clinical forensic experiences, a robust research program, and strong collaborations with the University of Houston Law Center, NASA, and the Texas prison system. Fellows will have unique opportunities to become proficient in aerospace psychiatry, legal scholarship, and research in forensic and correctional psychiatry.

- Fellows will rotate approximately two days per week on the UTMB Forensic Service, where they will provide forensic evaluation and consultation to local courts and attorneys. Fellows should expect to complete approximately 20-25 competence to stand trial evaluations and 10-15 non-competency evaluations (insanity, sentencing mitigation, fitness for duty, asylum, guardianship, testamentary capacity, personal injury, malpractice, etc.) over the course of the year, testifying as needed.
- Fellows will rotate one day per week in the Texas prison system, where they will join medical leadership to evaluating, developing, and improving mental health policy and programming in the prison system. Notably, although fellows will provide some direct patient care in the correctional setting, this is not the focus of the rotation.
- Fellows will rotate one day per week in Harris County Jail, where they will provide jail-based competency restoration treatment.
- Fellows will rotate full-time for one month at NASA Johnson Space Center (the site of mission control and astronaut training), where they will join NASA's prestigious Aerospace Medicine Clerkship. They will tour NASA facilities, receive training about the science, medicine, and mental health considerations involved in human spaceflight, and be mentored by NASA aerospace forensic psychiatrists. Fellows will participate in fitness for duty assessments for NASA and the FAA. Additional experiences in aerospace and aviation are available as well.
- Fellows will have didactic sessions totaling approximately one day per week, including lectures, case seminars, and Landmark Cases. Fellows will prepare for and testify at a mock trial. They will attend the Forensic Board Review Course at the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law Annual Meeting (Boston, Oct 2025) and may attend one other conference.
- Additional experiences and mentorship are available for child and adolescent psychiatrists.

Interested candidates should contact Rocksheng Zhong, MD, MHS (Fellowship Training Director): [email protected], 409-266-5253.

 

[nola2811]

I was rather late in game with my applications submitted on July 1st. Thankfully I've already heard back from several programs. I was wondering if anyone had any insight into how my being relatively late might impact interview offers, and how I might be able to mitigate this (more emails expressing interest)? I appreciate any advice and wish everyone the best of luck!

 

[bellowingraven]

I was rather late in game with my applications submitted on July 1st. Thankfully I've already heard back from several programs. I was wondering if anyone had any insight into how my being relatively late might impact interview offers, and how I might be able to mitigate this (more emails expressing interest)? I appreciate any advice and wish everyone the best of luck!

Not as late as me... Anyone know if there's utility in applying this late?

 

[Bartelby]

I would say it is still worth applying. The ADFPF publishes dates that forensic fellowship programs should follow. This year these boil down to:

• May 1, 2024: First day that programs can review applications and/or contact applicants to schedule interviews.
• August 1, 2024: First day that programs can conduct interviews.
• September 16, 2024: First day that programs can offer positions to candidates.

That means no one has interviewed at any programs yet, and there is still more than a month and a half before the first offers go out. Applying this late puts you at a clear disadvantage because interview dates may be full, but if a program sees you as a strong candidate you can still join the usual interview cycle this year.

If you are doing it, though, apply immediately. As we get into August the odds your programs of interest will still interview you drop further, and by mid-September you will really be left looking at seats that did not fill. There are still open spots every year, but your selection will be much more limited.

 

[randomforensic]

how are interviews going for applicants? we're almost at the halfway mark for the interview season, less than 1 month until offers go out!

 

[randomforensic]

T-minus 6 days for offers. Best of luck everyone.

 

[nola2811]

Good luck everyone!

 

[littleblackbear]

Does anyone know what time one would expect an offer? And if I don't get an offer today from my preferred program, should I hold out for the rest of the week waiting and hoping for that offer or would that be incredibly stupid? Thanks!

 

[Forensicspsych]

Does anyone know what time one would expect an offer? And if I don't get an offer today from my preferred program, should I hold out for the rest of the week waiting and hoping for that offer or would that be incredibly stupid? Thanks!

I have the same question. Did you guys hear back from all the programs you interviewed at? I have heard back from Colorado and they have filled. Does anyone know of other programs that have filled?

 

[randomforensic]

Does anyone know what time one would expect an offer? And if I don't get an offer today from my preferred program, should I hold out for the rest of the week waiting and hoping for that offer or would that be incredibly stupid? Thanks!

i think programs sent out offers early today because they want to make sure they fill all their positions asap. you do have 1 week to respond to offers you've received before they expire. i don't think it's stupid to hold out to wait for another program but i would reach out to your preferred program to let them know they are your top choice and to let you know if they have an opening. if it were me i would call the PD to discuss.

I have the same question. Did you guys hear back from all the programs you interviewed at? I have heard back from Colorado and they have filled. Does anyone know of other programs that have filled?

i did not hear back from all the programs i interviewed at but in retrospect i applied to way too many programs and didn't keep up with communication with a lot of them from my end (to express continued interest).

 

[drStranger12]

I'll just echo that you should be proactive in reaching out to programs of interest. Forensic PDs are generally pretty transparent and will hopefully tell it to you straight.
I think you can't go wrong with something like:
"I'm writing to express my continued interest in your program. I remain enthusiastic about the opportunity to train in your program and would greatly appreciate any updates regarding the status of the fellowship positions."

A handful of programs have definitely already filled, but dozens have certainly not.

 

[randomforensic]

i anticipate many offers will be turned down today and tomorrow (24 hours) as applicants accept 1 position so more will be going out in the next 48 hours.

Per ADFPF guidelines:
ADFPF has agreed that, for the 2025-2026 fellowship year, no offers can be made or accepted before 12 pm Eastern time (9 am Pacific time) on September 16, 2024. Once an offer has been made, the applicant has seven (7) calendar days to accept or decline the offer. If the program does not receive an affirmative response from the applicant by close of business on the seventh day (in the program’s time zone), they may withdraw the offer.

Applicants are required to notify each fellowship program to which they have applied, within 24 hours of accepting a position, that they have accepted an offer elsewhere. Program directors will report acceptance of applicants to a centralized ADFPF database within 24 hours of acceptance.

 

[psych1717]

Emory vs University of Michigan?? I interviewed at 10 programs but only have 3 offers so far. My top choice is Yale but haven't heard back from them.

 

[drStranger12]

Emory vs University of Michigan?? I interviewed at 10 programs but only have 3 offers so far. My top choice is Yale but haven't heard back from them.

As you know, there is no correct choice here. Both Emory and UMichigan offer outstanding training. Both fellowships are designed to optimize the trainee’s learning experience, and each has excellent mentorship opportunities and leaders in the field. Michigan has a larger faculty, so that may be something to consider when thinking about scope of cases you’ll see. But Emory certainly has no shortage. It might help to think about whether you prefer one city over the other or if you could see yourself staying in either place after fellowship. Ultimately, it comes down to what fits you best personally, as both programs will provide top-notch education and experiences. Michigan, overall, has better sports teams.

 

[randomforensic]

Emory vs University of Michigan?? I interviewed at 10 programs but only have 3 offers so far. My top choice is Yale but haven't heard back from them.

i would also point out that Michigan has 5 fellows and Emory 3(?). I think 5 is on the larger side compared to most programs so that can be a pro or con, though their faculty and forensic experiences seem large enough to support that many fellows. if your top program is yale then you probably like, or at least don't mind, the larger class size. i also personally viewed any program with a C/L rotation as a negative (listed as an experience on Emory's website). most programs spin it as being a consultant for ethical issues, civil commitment, and competency for treatment but i'm sure we all did a lot of that in residency already on the C/L service.

 

[Mosaicity]

Chiming in as someone who is waiting for an offer from top choices, and has been told by several programs that they are waiting on responses. This process is pretty brutal. I am grateful to have received one in much a less desirable location geographically for my partner.

Hopefully this is comforting to anyone else in this position and encouraging to anyone lucky to have multiple offers to make a decision as soon as possible 😊🙏🏻

Yale and Stanford have filled.

 

[futureforensicdoc]

Case Western has also filled.

 

[cehurst]

Any thoughts on Cincinnati’s program?

 

[futureforensicdoc]

I thought about applying there. I really like how collaborative ohio is in general. All of the programs collaborate in learning and mock trials!

 

[Atreides]

Any thoughts on Cincinnati’s program?

Great program, great leadership.

 

[skyb1]

What can I do if a PD did not follow the communication guidelines and made an unacceptable statement?

 

[drStranger12]

What can I do if a PD did not follow the communication guidelines and made an unacceptable statement?

How unacceptable we talkin’? (Not that it matters necessarily, just curious)

 

[Mosaicity]

What can I do if a PD did not follow the communication guidelines and made an unacceptable statement?

I had a PD call me on Monday and say, "I will only extend an offer if you are ready to accept it."

Not sure if that is technically a violation but definitely felt like pressure and turned me off of the program. Hoping for the sake of future applicants (and programs, honestly) that it finally becomes a match.

Accepted elsewhere and excited to join the field. Best of luck to everyone still waiting or deciding.

 

[randomforensic]

i also felt like multiple programs toed the line in terms of communication in the past week leading up to and through Monday but they technically did not cross the line. kind of a following the letter but not the spirit thing.

i am also very pro-match.

 

[Atreides]

I had a PD call me on Monday and say, "I will only extend an offer if you are ready to accept it."

Not sure if that is technically a violation but definitely felt like pressure and turned me off of the program.

I don't think this'll ever change tbh. Funniest thing is having a PD make this statement to you and then see the PD publicly talking about how programs shouldn't pressure applicants.

 

[skyb1]

I had a PD call me on Monday and say, "I will only extend an offer if you are ready to accept it."

Not sure if that is technically a violation but definitely felt like pressure and turned me off of the program. Hoping for the sake of future applicants (and programs, honestly) that it finally becomes a match.

Accepted elsewhere and excited to join the field. Best of luck to everyone still waiting or deciding.

Basically what happened to me too but wish I had known this was commonplace beforehand so that I would have said yes because now I have no offers. So that’s great.

 

[Mosaicity]

Basically what happened to me too but wish I had known this was commonplace beforehand so that I would have said yes because now I have no offers. So that’s great.

I'm sorry. Things are definitely still underway - I know at least two people who are considering offers, which means that spots will open up once they decide. I highly recommend reaching out to any program that you have not heard back from. I did this yesterday and multiple programs told me that because of my email, they were prioritizing me on the "waitlist."

Even if all of the programs that you interviewed at are now full, you will likely be able to find a spot somewhere if your heart is set on forensics, as per my understanding there have always been unfilled seats.

 

[cehurst]

Is there a place where we can track what programs have filled?

 

[Mosaicity]

Is there a place where we can track what programs have filled?

Apparently PDs have some sort of shared spreadsheet or database but its not accessible by applicants. Your best bet is to reach out and inquire. I found programs very receptive to this, as it also benefits them to know your status.

 

[cehurst]

So what are the rules with regard to what applicants can say to programs? If an applicant had an active offer but they were waiting to hear from their preferred program would the applicant be allowed to disclose that they have an active offer? If it were permissible would it be advised for an applicant to disclose that kind of information to their preferred program? I can’t find any official language regarding appropriate communication but it feels like this would be frowned upon.

 

[Mosaicity]

So what are the rules with regard to what applicants can say to programs? If an applicant had an active offer but they were waiting to hear from their preferred program would the applicant be allowed to disclose that they have an active offer? If it were permissible would it be advised for an applicant to disclose that kind of information to their preferred program? I can’t find any official language regarding appropriate communication but it feels like this would be frowned upon.

I don't see why you should not mention an active offer. I did so to all outstanding programs and they responded favorably. They assured me that they would be in contact within 7 days with an update whether or not they had heard from the applicants they had made offers to.

I think the communication guidelines were more relevant prior to Monday. At this point, every party benefits from transparency.

 

[Atreides]

if an applicant had an active offer but they were waiting to hear from their preferred program would the applicant be allowed to disclose that they have an active offer?

Fwiw, my year someone accepted an offer from Yale (before official offers were even supposed to go out) and then reneged and accepted an offer at their real first choice program. Only reason we found out is that Yale sent a bunch of applicants an email saying as much and then asking which of us were still interested in Yale because they had a spot open now (which, again, happened before any spots were supposed to have filled). No idea who that person was but they have my respect for having the cajones to do a program dirty rather than the reverse. Until you sign, there's nothing actually binding.